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[mysteryowl]

This message was self-deleted by its author (mysteryowl) on Sat Oct 12, 2019, 04:18 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[Ilsa]

1. I don't want anyone telling me who to be friends with.

And I don't think it is any of my business to tell Ellen or W. who to be friends with.

Ellen believes in being kind to others. I try to turn the other cheek. Nancy Pelosi prays and asks God to bless the Orange One who curses her.

It's philosophical.

[hlthe2b]

10. Ditto, but I likewise dispute the characterization as "friendship." She is polite and appropriate

with a former PRESIDENT, no matter how one feels about him (and I certainly harbor great personal animosity), who has likewise appeared on her show. She is, after all, a talk show host.

Why do we conflate basic civility with the overt agreement with or "white-washing" a politician's misdeeds or even criminality? Do we really want to BECOME that with which we rightfully DISDAIN? Are we to become the Left's version of a Trump rally in our behavior? Really?

As I stated in a previous thread, I had the unpleasant responsibility on a professional work basis to interview Cheney between his congressional career and VP. Even then, I found him unnerving and unpleasant, but I was professional and would be again, though I now absolutely detest him, unlike few others. I refuse to become what I detest.

[Tipperary]

17. Not kidding.

People love to post here about all the hate there is on the other side, but I see plenty of hatred right here. Every day.

[Jedi Guy]

42. Yep, same here. It's really off-putting. N/T

[tblue37]

33. Good post. nt

[treestar]

90. I agree

So we expect Dubya to be booed wherever he goes? For Ellen and others to declare they are leaving because he’s been invited to the same event? Deplorables don’t do that to democrats much. If they do, we condemn it.

[virgogal]

2. She is an adult and can be friendly with anyone that she chooses.

[JenniferJuniper]

3. Lie down with dogs....

[WhiskeyGrinder]

4. Celebrities are likely to be friends with other celebrities.

Ellen was a groundbreaker back in the day. W was a war criminal back in the day. People can be friends with whoever they want. The personal is political. I don't watch her show. People can overlook all sorts of things. Telling people who they should or should not be friends with, or what they should base their idea of friendship on, generally isn't helpful. All of these things are true.

[hmanne]

5. Don't much care,

there are much, much more important issues facing the nation, like getting that orange criminal out of office and into prison.

[NRaleighLiberal]

6. not even a thought. she is an entertainer that needs an audience.

different needs than I have.

plus... haven't watched tv in over a decade.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

7. I couldn't care less about what some celebrity does

or who their friends are. If some friend of mine started buddying up with that guy it would be another matter, but I really don't give a damn about Ellen's social life.

[brush]

8. It's kind of troubling as Michelle Obama also seems to get along with W.

I don't know how to feel about it as Bush was horrible president and is responsible for a lot of deaths in Iraq.

[calguy]

9. I don't feel anything about her friendship to Bush

It's her life and her time. Who am I to dictate to someone I don't even know who they are allowed to associate with in public? I have at least ten thousand other things I'd rather occupy my time with today than to worry about who Ellen is with.

[TreasonousBastard]

11. It means absolutely nothing to me.

[Wounded Bear]

12. Someone has me confused with somebody who gives a shit...

All this celebrity worship is in large part what's wrong with this country.

Nunna my bidnis. Nunna my care.

Ellen has her good traits.

[Doodley]

21. If you accept the celebrity worship is what is wrong, you should also be aware of the influence the

actions of celebrities have. I don't see how that comes under the category of not giving a shit.

[FM123]

13. It doesn't bother me that she was friendly to the person she was seated next to....

but it would bother me if she actively pursued a friendship with someone like that beyond that chance encounter.

[Doodley]

14. The thing is that Bush started a war based on a lie and denied rights to gays and lesbians, but

Trump has the skill to even make Bush look like the good guy.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

15. I couldn't care less. So many other things to focus on at the moment

I like Ellen. She’s affable, funny, has a great observational comedy style similar to that of Seinfeld’s, and I think was instrumental in helping to usher in a more tolerant and accepting attitude towards gays and lesbians in frequently intolerant Middle America.

I think George W. Bush was a terrible president, someone who was rather stupid and lazy and did not control the ambitions of some very bad people who worked for him, and I still will not forgive him for leading us into an unnecessary war on bad intelligence.

That all being said, if you somehow magically remove everything about George W. Bush as president and only looked at him as a regular person, I would probably begrudgingly admit he could be somewhat affable on a personal basis, at least compared to what we have now in the White House.

Now, I don’t know if I personally could put all his failings and misdeeds as President, but if Ellen wants to...well, she’s her own person and not acting as a politician so I honestly don’t care.

I mean right now we have so much going on with the current horror of a “President” that we truly have never seen before, not from Dubya or any one else.

That is the clear and present danger to us today, so excuse me if I couldn’t give a shit if a likeable comedian shares a few laughs with an ex-President, even a bad one.

[GemDigger]

16. This is childish. Good manners aside,

We do NOT know what they talked about.

The time that a person/friend tells me who I can be friends with is the time I let that person/friend go.

The time that I am rude to someone because of their political leanings is the time I should get a lightning bold from the heavens to give me a rude awakening.

Who the hell am I to judge someone on a damn GAME SEAT.

[Beringia]

18. If Ellen were 10% Iraqi or had adopted an Iraqi orphan

she probably would not have sat next to him. In thinking about this, I think she went to the stadium as a favor for her wife, to curry favor from a rich so and so. This is mostly gossip entertainment, which I do like from time to time.

[MineralMan]

19. Of all the overdrawn overreactions, this one is particularly annoying.

Last edited Sat Oct 12, 2019, 12:40 PM - Edit history (1)

They weren't on a date. They just happened to be in the same luxury suite at that game. Please, let's end this useless nonsense.

[mysteryowl]

27. For people not caring, this thread sure has a lot of responses.

[MineralMan]

31. Hmm...well, nobody said we don't care.

We just don't necessarily care about the same things you do.

In the broader view of things, Ellen Degeneres smiling and laughing with a former President doesn't amount to anything to be concerned about. President Obama and his First Lady Michelle have also laughed with GWB from time to time.

Bush was never charged with war crimes. There was no trial. He was not convicted of anything. Was he a detestable President? Probably, but that was a long time ago now.

Most people have gotten over raging about it when it comes to others who interact with Bush. I suggest you do the same.

[mysteryowl]

37. I hope people never get over war for the sake of profit.

That is not to be forgotten. Do you want people to forget about Hitler and the Holocaust too?

[MineralMan]

43. Did Ellen appear in a luxury suite with Hitler, too?

I'm not defending George W. Bush. I'm defending a TV talk show host who happened to be in that place at that time. She did nothing wrong. Attack Bush however you wish. I won't argue with you on that.

Are you attacking Michelle Obama in the same way you're attacking Ellen Degeneres? No? Why not, pray tell?

Use some common sense, please...

[mysteryowl]

46. I am responding to you telling me to get over it about Bush.

[MineralMan]

47. OK. You have done so.

See ya!

[cwydro]

76. How do you feel about Michelle Obama's friendship with him?

Or do you not want to talk about that?

[Iggo]

51. "Don't care" is exactly how I feel about it.

[MineralMan]

56. I haven't really thought enough about it even to make that judgment.

I no longer think about GWB very much at all. I mean, there he is, and all, but time has marched on and now we have Donald J. Trump squatting in the White House. That's occupying my attention these days.

George W. Bush was a puppet of others, really. He's not all that bright. I always thought that Dick Cheney was pulling his strings most of the time, frankly.

Michelle Obama seems fond of GWB, and so does Barack, in their own ways. I'm not seeing people slamming them for their reaction to him, frankly.

[Iggo]

49. You asked how people felt about it. "Don't care" is how I feel about it.

[mysteryowl]

70. Good answer.

[SMC22307]

64. A question was asked by the OP and answered.

The general consensus seems to be that people don't give a shit about celebrities or who they are friends with.

[mysteryowl]

71. Agreed.

I see that too.

The news talked about social media blowing up about this. I wanted to see what why and what for.
DU people care about important things.

[SMC22307]

75. It's all one big club and we're not a part of it.

Or whatever the George Carlin quote was. Right-wingers love to blast the image of Bush and Bono hugging it out. "See, he's not such a bad guy after all and did NOTHING wrong! Even Bono likes him!"

[treestar]

91. Being nice to him

Or even liking him does not mean you have to agree with or support what he did. People are confusing polite interaction with political support.

[SMC22307]

104. She may really like him. Who knows.

I didn't watch her explanation b/c it doesn't interest me enough. All I know is that Twitter blew up, celebrities "feuded," and I shut that whole thing down on my end.

[treestar]

107. Maybe we'd like him too

In that short a context. I doubt she saw him elsewhere. To me meeting someone and liking them at a party is not a full blown friendship. That involves seeing a lot more of each other. Sometimes a person likeable at a party is no longer so with more exposure to them.

[StarfishSaver]

74. People talk a lot of crap here about what THEY would and wouldn't do because they're so noble

But I think that if most of them found themselves in the presence of a former president, they wouldn't be talking such smack but would instead get tongue-tied and fall over themselves trying to get a picture with him.

[MineralMan]

86. You could be right. It's easy to castigate someone who is not standing there

looking at you. In today's world, it's rare for people to actually meet a President. Most people never do. But, in most cases, if they do, they mumble something and forget whatever it is they'll think of later that they should have said.

I've spoken directly to two Presidents. Nixon and Carter. Both times, I simply offered a greeting, which was all that was expected for me to do. I disliked Nixon intensely, but I was in my USAF uniform, so I just said, "Good morning, Mr. President" when I was introduced to him. Someone told him what it was that I was doing, and I returned to my work. President Carter was walking through an airliner, shaking hands with everyone, as he has a habit of doing. I shook his hand and thanked him for his service, and then he moved on.

I might have said other things, but the situation allowed only for a brief greeting, which is typical of times when we encounter a President.

[treestar]

93. You didn't punch Nixon in the nose?

You war criminal supporting ninny!

[MineralMan]

97. I thought that would be ill-advised.

As a lowly E-4, it didn't seem like something that would be seen as appropriate. The occasion was Richard Nixon's "New President Tour" of the NSA building, where I was assigned at the time. There was a mock exercise set up to show him something, and I was volunteered to sit in. So, there I was, in my Blue Class A Dress uniform, something I rarely wore during my enlistment, sitting in a chair in front of a piece of equipment. I was ostensibly doing a job for which I was uniquely qualified.

Anyhow a group came up from behind me, and some scrambled egg officer said something like, "Mr. President, here we have a workstation where Sgt. [myname] is doing "thus and so." I had been told that if that happened, I was to stand up, come to attention and say, "Good morning, Mr. President." So I did.

I had never been that close to so much military brass. I was 23 years old. So, I did as I was instructed to do. What I was ostensibly doing during that exercise had very little to do with my normal work at the time. But, it was just an exercise for the President to see, anyhow, and I guess I was presentable enough to suit whoever volunteered me for the duty.

The preparations for Nixon's introductory visit took about two weeks, and was sort of surprising in its scope, which I can't really discuss, even now. Bottom line is that what he saw was not the normal operational functioning of the place. I learned something from that.

[treestar]

92. I agree. At least they would

Probably not start yelling at him, or throwing shoes at him. Or marching out righteously proclaiming him a war criminal who they refuse to meet. (Shades of Mrs. Astor). There are only a few people who have done things like that.

[Dagstead Bumwood]

99. Agreed.

If I happened to find myself, and the odds are admittedly astronomical, in a social situation with Dubya, I certainly wouldn't scream at him like a lunatic and spit in his face. And, not because I wouldn't want to, and not because he wouldn't deserve it, but because that's how I was raised. I would be cordial for the length of our interaction, maybe even asking a him a question or two. I mean, how often does one get to meet a former president in the flesh and converse with them?

Doesn't mean I still wouldn't want to see that war criminal frog-marched to the gallows. But, in this age of incivility, one must cling to their own civility.

[cwydro]

78. Exactly.

[Tipperary]

20. You could have included Michelle Obama in the question.

She is also friendly with Bush.

[edhopper]

22. I like what Atrios said;

I don't think "Ellen hanging out with George Bush" is especially important and don't really care personally. What's also not important is PEOPLE BEING MEAN TO ELLEN ON THE INTERNET BECAUSE SHE IS HANGING OUT WITH GEORGE BUSH. What is, important, however, is existence of the Ellen Defense Force, other elites who are Mad SO MAD at the twitter rabble for daring to suggest that playing nice with the man responsible for so much death might be a bad thing. Rich people hanging out together in perfect harmony is not a sign of all that is good in America but actually the opposite.

https://www.eschatonblog.com/2019/10/coulda-sat-that-one-out.html#disqus_thread

[treestar]

94. There are not rich people who do evil

Who have friends and families who do more than hang out with them.

[Mc Mike]

23. Well, I used to dislike and distrust Disney's gay lady 'comic'.

Now though, I dislike and distrust Disney's gay lady 'comic'.

[Bluepinky]

24. I don't think she should be blamed for being kind to Bush.

The time for him to have been held accountable for his sins is gone. I truly believe Bush, Cheney and others should have been prosecuted for war crimes and lying to the American people after they left office, but they weren’t. The Democrats at the time didn’t want to hold them accountable, which I was angry about. I believe that letting Republicans get away with criminal behavior has escalated to the point where now we’re a broken country.

Ellen is a celebrity, not a politician. It’s not her frigging job to hold a former president accountable for his criminal behavior in office. If the Democrats at the time let him go, what is she supposed to do 11 years later? She’s a nice person, I don’t blame her for being civil to him and sharing a laugh. The people who should be blamed are those who could have done something and chose not to.

[Hoyt]

25. I've despised george war bush since he invaded Iraq, but I think his stand on immigration --

essentially tolerance for poor people seeking a better life -- was much more humane than vast majority of GOPers wanted.

He also did not stand in the way of Medicare's Part D drug plan which helped millions of elderly who were begging for prescription drug coverage. It needs more work, but it has helped millions.

I still despise him for killing tens of thousands of innocent people (including our guys) and other failures; but as I understand it, Degeneres was kind of tricked into this situation.

[pwb]

26. This should have stayed personal.

.

[empedocles]

29. In obvious tv op, nfl box, ?

[pwb]

35. The friends part. A chance encounter yes, an acquaintance yes, friend ?

[empedocles]

39. Agree

[sinkingfeeling]

28. It's none of my business. Who said they're 'friends' anyway? Speaking to and being polite to another

doesn't mean you're friends.

[bearsfootball516]

30. I don't like him, but she has the right to be friends with whoever she wants.

So I have no problem with it.

[yellerpup]

32. None of my business. n/t

[RightiswrongTn]

34. No problem here

[Adelante]

36. I have enough things to worry about - nt

[hmanne]

38. Did this turn out like you hoped it would?

Just curious.

[Srkdqltr]

40. It is her business, not mine

Just because she is a celeb it doesn't mean people have a right to judge.

[mcar]

41. ...

[mysteryowl]

44. ...

[mcar]

45. He he, good one!

[mysteryowl]

48. I am so glad you saw it that way.

[lamp_shade]

50. I couldn't care less.

[mysteryowl]

53. That seems to be the concensuses here.

DU is a group of people with eyes on what really matters, which is good.

[hatrack]

52. I thought she was smarter than that .. .

If W were standing on the sidewalk with his clothes on fire, I wouldn't walk across the street to piss on him.

[hmanne]

55. I would, but that's just me.

[we can do it]

54. Not my business. This whole thing is stupid.

Don't we have enough actual issues going on?

[Pachamama]

57. Don't care

It’s her business

Michelle Obama isn’t criticized for her view of Bush - why should we criticize Ellen?

[Newest Reality]

58. Simple...

They are in a strata of "the club", I am not. Carlin knew that and tried to make it clear.

The show is a show and show people are in their own sphere, but celebrity and other strata in the club are closer to politicians, in that sense, than the rest of us plebs. That social sphere, obviously, also intersects with the wealthy.

I am down here looking at that. Their alliances are never supersizing to me. We are supposed to stay in our assigned dichotomies and ignore it.

[vsrazdem]

59. Its none of my business, and by the way, didn't Michelle Obama say she likes him too.

[MaryMagdaline]

60. Probably more disturbed that she sat in Jerry Jones's box

It wasn’t as if she was randomly seated in her usual seats and a former president sat next to her. She chose to hob knob with Jerry Jones, a sexist pig. Bad choice in friends. Still like Ellen.

[at140]

62. If you never even talk with "pigs" as you call them, how do you

expect to change them to be more normal and rational?

[at140]

61. 2 American celebrities being friendly?

Why is that even news? We are all Americans, and friendlier with each other, the better.
Together we stand, divided we will fall.

[hmanne]

63. I couldn't agree with you more.

In my 73 years of being on this Earth, I have never seen such animosity in this country as I see now and I lay the blame squarely on Trump, the GOP and their enablers.

[nolabear]

65. I think there are many people using an episode to foment rage.

Friendship and not being a dick to someone are not the same. People are humane every day to people who have done terrible things. If he was starving would you feed him? If he passed you in the street would you spit on him?

Ellen’s acts didn’t harm anyone. She has the right to be kind to anyone she pleases and that act didn’t hurt anyone. It obviously enraged many but that’s their choice too.

I feel exhausted with the eternal rage.

[jcgoldie]

66. I'm no fan of W but who cares who anybody is friends with?

Maybe Michelle Obama didn't get the memo either...

[hmanne]

67. She is so classy and beautiful.

President Obama is one lucky man.

[jcgoldie]

69. You got that right!

[WhiteTara]

68. He should be shunned by society

for his crimes against humanity for which he has never been and never will be tried by the Hague. No one should even smile at him and I am disappointed that Michelle is so pleasant to him.

[treestar]

108. He is not though

It takes a critical mass who sees him as a monster. Somebody invited him to the football game and others invited did not walk out or decline.

I have been reading The Age of Innocence. People in high society declined an invitation when they knew that a divorcee was also invited! Dubya would have to reach that level. IMHO Dubya bendita from Orange Hitler being so much worse and in office now. Now nobody worries about Dubya.

[Mike Nelson]

72. My feeling is...

... none. Ellen is a celebrity and she sells a product: herself. She knew it would get attention and had her reaction planned. Ellen and her team consider it a plus. Celebrities and the wealthy live in a completely different "world" than other people. There are a lot of get-togethers... superficial friendships... networking... even feuds are planned, and the celebs may actually be on good terms. The Clintons and Obamas also get along with the Bushes. I understand Bill & GHWB were close... Michelle & GWB ... Rachel Maddow revealed her close friendship with Greta Van Sustren - which may or may not have been for publicity reasons (promoting Greta at MSNBC). I get what Ellen is doing... it was calculated and she's trying to do it for good reasons.

[StarfishSaver]

73. I really couldn't care less

Other than to think it's nice that she's not a rude, petty or childish person.

[Kablooie]

77. I feel like it's her business, not mine.

[guillaumeb]

79. One should never confuse basic civility and politeness with friendship.

I was civil to every manager I dealt with in over 30 years as a union representative. T


And that certainly does not mean that I was friends with every manager that I dealt with.

[treestar]

100. Yes. It appears these are

Acquaintances, and using the term “friend” is an exaggeration.

[Polly Hennessey]

80. She is allowed to be friends

with whomever she pleases. Bet most of the over reactors would not like to be scolded about their choice of friends.

[jrthin]

81. She can be friends with whomever she chooses. However, the

friends she chooses, tells me what I need to know about her.

[Faux pas]

82. You can't tell someone who they

can love and you can't pick their friends either. Different strokes and all that jazz.

[ismnotwasm]

83. I don't.

[Texasgal]

84. I don't care.

The focus on this is stupid.

[TidalWave46]

85. Ellen...

Leading by way of example.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

87. We need to choose our battles.

[Drunken Irishman]

88. I don't care anymore.

I don't see the point in fighting old battles. Bush is old news. He was an unsuccessful president who, even with the Iraq War failure, will likely be lost to history. We've got way more important battles to fight right now.

[Kaleva]

89. Hard to answer since so many of us are still traumatized by Justice Ginsburg's friendship w/Scalia

"Like many pals, Antonin Scalia and Ruth Bader Ginsburg could have a pretty good argument now and then, but not let it affect their close friendship.

During their time together on the United States Supreme Court, Justice Scalia, a staunch conservative, and Justice Ginsburg, a staunch liberal, rarely found themselves on the same side of controversial issues. But in an era when political divisions drive many in Washington apart on a personal level, their disagreements remained intellectual.

"We were best buddies," Ginsburg wrote after Scalia died on Saturday. The two first served together in the early 1980s on the federal circuit court in Washington, D.C., from which each was chosen to be nominated for the Supreme Court."

https://www.npr.org/2016/02/15/466848775/scalia-ginsburg-opera-commemorates-sparring-supreme-court-friendship

[treestar]

96. +1

Colleagues at work would go out to lunch. We would even argue politics. We we not best friend, just colleagues. But we could speak to one another. How much more divisive would things be if you had to be so devoted to your opinion you had to cut people you did not agree with?

I knew people who supported Dubya and his war. It would have been awful had I felt a duty to stop speaking to them.

[Quackers]

95. If she's good with it, so am I. nt

[lettucebe]

98. She can be friends with whomever she pleases and so can I, and so can you. Seriously?

[walkingman]

101. I view it simply as media BS - Ellen is OK, "W" not so much.

[Midnight Writer]

102. Pictures may be used in a attack ad when Ellen runs for President.

[AlexSFCA]

103. so is Obamas, who cares

distraction non-story. Ellen has a big heart, I wish more be like her. So is RBG and Scalia - very good friends.

[Tikki]

105. Whatever Ellen, Oprah and others were...they are now hosts..

They invite you to their party, living room, kitchen etc.

But Oprah went way too far when she invited schwarzenegger on her show during the gubernatorial race in California and may have helped hoist one of the worst governors in California history on us.

If Ellen brings bush on her show to talk about republican accomplishments, then I would judge her accordingly.

Tikki

[Downtown Hound]

109. She sat next to him at an event

It's more than a little hyperbolic to say that means they're friends.

The only beef I have with her about the whole thing is how she tried that age old bullshit line about being nice to people who disagree with you. There's disagreements, and then there's war crimes. And no one should ever be nice to a war criminal, and the fact that so many of us are is part of the reason why we have so many of them.

[Ms. Toad]

110. The two most significant groups who work really hard at controlling others' friendships

are the abusers in an abusive relationship - and fundamentalist Christians (a small group of whom tried to boot me from my faith community because I was a sinner and - theoretically - the bible commanded them not to commune with sinners).

That should give pause to people here who are slamming Ellen for her friendship with Bush.

Aside from that - being the temporary winner of two warring camps (and being temporary control of the governing bodies) will no more make a strong progressive country than will the cessation of war make peace.

A personal choice not to befriend people who think differently than you do is just that - a personal choice. But if everyone makes that choice, we will continue to battle amongst ourselves for scraps, rather than being able to create a country in which we all have the resources we need to thrive.

[kacekwl]

111. W is a hard case. He comes off as a gentle simple man in his retirement.

Even likeable in many ways but I will never forgive the horrible decicions he backed and allowed to happen. I think he was pressured by Dick Cheney and others but he's a grown man and should have to answer for his crimes.

[gibraltar72]

112. No one should have normalized him.