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Demovictory9

(32,449 posts)
Thu Oct 17, 2019, 11:45 PM Oct 2019

Facing unbearable heat, Qatar has begun to air-condition the outdoors

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/world/climate-environment/climate-change-qatar-air-conditioning-outdoors/


Qatar, the world's leading exporter of liquefied natural gas, may be able to cool its stadiums, but it cannot cool the entire country. Fears that the hundreds of thousands of soccer fans might wilt or even die while shuttling between stadiums and metros and hotels in the unforgiving summer heat prompted the decision to delay the World Cup by five months. It is now scheduled for November, during Qatar's milder winter.

The change in the World Cup date is a symptom of a larger problem — climate change.

Already one of the hottest places on Earth, Qatar has seen average temperatures rise more than 2 degrees Celsius above preindustrial times, the current international goal for limiting the damage of global warming. The 2015 Paris climate summit said it would be better to keep temperatures "well below" that, ideally to no more than 1.5 degrees Celsius.

-----------

To survive the summer heat, Qatar not only air-conditions its soccer stadiums, but also the outdoors — in markets, along sidewalks, even at outdoor malls so people can window shop with a cool breeze. “If you turn off air conditioners, it will be unbearable. You cannot function effectively,” says Yousef al-Horr, founder of the Gulf Organization for Research and Development.


Al Janoub stadium is one of eight soccer stadiums that Qatar is prepping for the 2022 World Cup.

Engineering professor Saud Ghani designed the open-air stadium’s air-conditioning system.

Small vents push cool air at ankle level inside the stadium.



So far, Qatar has maintained outdoor life through a vast expansion of outdoor air conditioning. In the restored Souq Waqif market, a maze of shops, restaurants and small hotels, three- to four-foot-high air-conditioning units blow cool air onto cafe customers. At a cost of $80 to $250 each depending on the quality, they are the only things that make outdoor dining possible in a place where overnight low temperatures in summer rarely dip below 90 degrees.

Recently, the luxury French department store Galeries Lafayette opened in a shopping mall that features stylish air-conditioning grates in the broad cobblestone walkways outside. Each of the vents, about 1 by 6 feet, has a decorative design. Many of them hug the outside of buildings, cooling off window shoppers looking at expensive fashions. Though nearly deserted in the heat, by 5 p.m. some people begin to emerge to sit outside places like Cafe Pouchkine.
45 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Facing unbearable heat, Qatar has begun to air-condition the outdoors (Original Post) Demovictory9 Oct 2019 OP
Opening the refrigerator to cool the room, eh? nt Quackers Oct 2019 #1
yeah, because otherwise the room is too hot for human life Demovictory9 Oct 2019 #7
This message was self-deleted by its author groundloop Oct 2019 #25
Kick dalton99a Oct 2019 #2
Hot is hot. PoindexterOglethorpe Oct 2019 #3
Very unpopulated until HVAC and piped water. I believe Hortensis Oct 2019 #12
I've been told by HVAC people that PoindexterOglethorpe Oct 2019 #31
Here in the deep south antibiotics and doing away with Hortensis Oct 2019 #34
you're wondering why they don't move to a cool part of Qatar? CreekDog Oct 2019 #17
My sister lives there and it is extremely humid and hot LeftInTX Oct 2019 #4
This message was self-deleted by its author LeftInTX Oct 2019 #5
What took your sister there? maxsolomon Oct 2019 #36
She's a professor LeftInTX Oct 2019 #37
That makes sense. You go where the job is. maxsolomon Oct 2019 #38
She likes the Middle East LeftInTX Oct 2019 #41
Why are they having the World Cup in Qatar???? LeftInTX Oct 2019 #6
and article says previous sporting event held in Qatar didn't go well... Demovictory9 Oct 2019 #8
Money caraher Oct 2019 #10
Massive corruption and bribery Codeine Oct 2019 #32
Gawd..... LeftInTX Oct 2019 #35
Somewhere in the afterlife my grandmother is having a cow over this. TeamPooka Oct 2019 #9
make caves; move underground Hermit-The-Prog Oct 2019 #11
Just a short distance down the earth provides its own natural Hortensis Oct 2019 #13
sports stadiums should be surrounded by parks Hermit-The-Prog Oct 2019 #15
Great improvement in many regions for various reasons. Hortensis Oct 2019 #16
"cars and stadium under the park" -- yes! Hermit-The-Prog Oct 2019 #18
It's really great what some cities are doing with spaces that Hortensis Oct 2019 #21
that's beautiful Hermit-The-Prog Oct 2019 #22
Yes. :) That's on my list to visit some day. A number of U.S. cities Hortensis Oct 2019 #23
rooftop gardens Hermit-The-Prog Oct 2019 #24
Trees don't grow over there LeftInTX Oct 2019 #27
sports stadiums are not limited to "over there" Hermit-The-Prog Oct 2019 #39
CommerzBank Arena in Frankfurt... a la izquierda Oct 2019 #29
found a photo ... Hermit-The-Prog Oct 2019 #40
That's it. a la izquierda Oct 2019 #45
you thought real hard about that CreekDog Oct 2019 #19
you thought real hard about Qatar to suggest groundwater is a problem? Hermit-The-Prog Oct 2019 #20
good idea Demovictory9 Oct 2019 #42
adobe construction is essentially above-ground cave building Hermit-The-Prog Oct 2019 #44
The business side of an air conditioner is cool but have you ever felt the air coming out of world wide wally Oct 2019 #14
Exactly! This is beyond foolish. Duppers Oct 2019 #30
The laws of thermodynamics sarisataka Oct 2019 #33
yep. otherside is a heater Demovictory9 Oct 2019 #43
I've seen a climate-change study that the Middle-East will be drastically hotter 100 years from now. DetlefK Oct 2019 #26
I dunno....I think the heat will just travel further from the equator LeftInTX Oct 2019 #28

Response to Demovictory9 (Reply #7)

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,848 posts)
3. Hot is hot.
Thu Oct 17, 2019, 11:51 PM
Oct 2019

I used to live in Phoenix, AZ, and learned a lot about extreme heat there. Which is why I live in a more reasonable place (Santa Fe, NM) and sometimes wonder at those who stay voluntarily in places with outrageous heat.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
12. Very unpopulated until HVAC and piped water. I believe
Fri Oct 18, 2019, 01:08 AM
Oct 2019

climate denial could not have occurred without attached garages.

I could live in the NM mountains. We love the desert. Our son moved to GA, so we have a winter place in Florida instead. Very nice, thogh. We're eating seafood salad on the patio while people up north are inside with bowls of squash soup. Summer's the killing season, but half of that 72' mobile home is shaded almost all day by a giant old live oak, and that's where we AC if we go down there in summer, not the large pretty sunroom that isn't shaded.

It's, amazingly, still common for people to cut down and refuse to plant trees because they don't want to rake the leaves. By far the best heat control is to stop the sun's rays before they hit the building, something anyone who walks into shade on a hot day could understand immediately if pointed out, but instead air conditioning what amount to sealed ovens baking in the sun is still SOP.

That'll change in large part. Where people have the water to keep trees alive.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,848 posts)
31. I've been told by HVAC people that
Fri Oct 18, 2019, 10:44 AM
Oct 2019

it's far more expensive and energy consuming to cool down from, say 100° to 70°, than to heat up from minus 20 to the same 70°.

Plus, you can dress for the cold. The only way to dress for extreme heat is to wear an air-conditioned car.

And yes, until AC became common, places like Phoenix or Florida didn't have a lot of people living there in the summer. At least in a dry climate you can use swamp coolers, although they're only good for about 20 degrees of cooling, and are worthless where the humidity is high.


Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
34. Here in the deep south antibiotics and doing away with
Fri Oct 18, 2019, 11:23 AM
Oct 2019

endemic diseases like malaria preceded population influx. There was a reason why the few who could took the children to the mountains for the summer. But of course it was also with air conditioning that industry and middle class jobs moved in.

Very interesting about energy use in cooling down versus heating. I'd heard something but not that it was that dramatic. We use open windows and ceiling fans, and vent heat up and out, which do great things, but in summer the AC usually comes on in the afternoon.

We built this house several years ago, and the trees we added for the house finally have some useful height, but a lot more height and spread are needed on the west. The difference between now and when they were planted around our baking oven is extremely dramatic, though. And I'm so glad I only once cut down the hickory sapling I didn't want "there" to the east, a major climate attack the next summer forcing a rethinking. Its established roots meant its new trunk shot right up, and its current, spreading 40' are in the perfect place to shade the kitchen on summer mornings. I took down the curtains I made to keep the counters, and us, from getting hot a long time ago.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
17. you're wondering why they don't move to a cool part of Qatar?
Fri Oct 18, 2019, 01:37 AM
Oct 2019

The way one could in the USA?

How big is Qatar? How many climates?

Jesus.

LeftInTX

(25,258 posts)
4. My sister lives there and it is extremely humid and hot
Thu Oct 17, 2019, 11:58 PM
Oct 2019

She likes that kind of weather, but even she is complaining.

She literally freezes if she visits Texas.

Response to LeftInTX (Reply #4)

maxsolomon

(33,310 posts)
38. That makes sense. You go where the job is.
Fri Oct 18, 2019, 12:51 PM
Oct 2019

I've have Architect friends whose firms do work on the Arabian Peninsula. I think it's morally questionable to design and build for Despots (just a step above designing jails), but money is very powerful.

LeftInTX

(25,258 posts)
41. She likes the Middle East
Fri Oct 18, 2019, 04:50 PM
Oct 2019

She specializes in International Law. She retired from a major university here and she doesn't need to work, but she likes what she does.

Demovictory9

(32,449 posts)
8. and article says previous sporting event held in Qatar didn't go well...
Fri Oct 18, 2019, 12:13 AM
Oct 2019

That became abundantly clear in late September, as Doha hosted the 2019 World Athletics Championships. It moved the start time for the women’s marathon to midnight Sept. 28. Water stations handed out sponges dipped in ice-cold water. First-aid responders outnumbered the contestants. But temperatures hovered around 90 degrees Fahrenheit and 28 of the 68 starters failed to finish, some taken off in wheelchairs.

 

Codeine

(25,586 posts)
32. Massive corruption and bribery
Fri Oct 18, 2019, 10:57 AM
Oct 2019

of international soccer officials. The whole thing is an absolute shitshow.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
13. Just a short distance down the earth provides its own natural
Fri Oct 18, 2019, 01:12 AM
Oct 2019

cooling. Most wouldn't have to go even mostly underground to get real benefit, just set lower to take advantage of it. Wouldn't be surprised if a lot of sports stadiums didn't eventually move all the way under though. People don't attend to look at the stars.

Hermit-The-Prog

(33,328 posts)
15. sports stadiums should be surrounded by parks
Fri Oct 18, 2019, 01:20 AM
Oct 2019

Sports stadiums can be roofed with solar collectors. Their parking lots are abominations and should be planted with trees. There are better ways of parking cars than paving over the landscape.


Temperatures not far below the surface hover near the annual average of a region. You can pick your comfort zone.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
16. Great improvement in many regions for various reasons.
Fri Oct 18, 2019, 01:32 AM
Oct 2019

Most stadiums are so ugly to go to. The Rose Bowl where we used to live, a real exception.
But where it'd still be lacking and in congested areas, how about cars and stadium under the park? I remember long ago an urban studies professor at UCLA (the odd class, I didn't major) pointing out that we've always built on and paved over our best land that should have been preserved for other uses. Perhaps in future we'll undo that to some degree, and moving development out of the fertile valleys and onto the hills wouldn't be the only way.

Without heating, our basement here in north GA wouldn't drop below about 50 in the worst winters, and it used to drop into single digits here for relatively brief periods.

Hermit-The-Prog

(33,328 posts)
18. "cars and stadium under the park" -- yes!
Fri Oct 18, 2019, 01:40 AM
Oct 2019

Forgot to post a link in my previous post: https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/g324/worlds-strangest-parking-garages/

Cities can be parks, too. Move all vehicles underground and rip up the pavement. (Assuming there will always be a need for some essential, independent vehicles within a city). Build down, not up. For every square meter of pavement, concrete, or building, require a new square meter of native plants.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
21. It's really great what some cities are doing with spaces that
Fri Oct 18, 2019, 02:00 AM
Oct 2019

used to be freeways cutting through and dividing them. Every decade now humanity has never been here before, but we keep learning and keep progressing.

I don't know why it won't open, but this happy place in Seoul is worth smiling at.

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/lbe5zrodzjmlucs123s7.jpg

I saw your car parking link. That's terrific. The car silo is actually pretty at night. And they do have to be kept lit.

Hermit-The-Prog

(33,328 posts)
22. that's beautiful
Fri Oct 18, 2019, 02:25 AM
Oct 2019

Your link opens even if it won't embed the image.

That reminds me of something I saw on a PBS program. New York City converted an old, unused, elevated rail line into a park rambling through a part of the city. They were worried no one would use it, but it's extremely popular with pedestrians.

Ah, found it -- Growing A Greener World, The New York High Line

Just an acre and a half, but it's better than just more concrete. (First minute is advertising).


Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
23. Yes. :) That's on my list to visit some day. A number of U.S. cities
Fri Oct 18, 2019, 02:33 AM
Oct 2019

have replaced freeways with greenways, put stretches underground and planted over, heavily planted stretches so it's like speeding through parkland, etc., and more being planned all the time. Looking at what climate change is doing outside around here, though, it must be causing serious setbacks to this movement even while making it imperative to continue.

Hermit-The-Prog

(33,328 posts)
24. rooftop gardens
Fri Oct 18, 2019, 02:49 AM
Oct 2019

One more 'Growing A Greener World', Rooftop Gardens.

Starts at City Hall, Chicago with 20,000 sq ft roof garden, and Charlotte, NC, then, related to your comment about cars and stadiums underground, a garden / park on top of underground parking structure.




As for "green" work in your state ... https://www.atlantawatershed.org/greeninfrastructure/

a la izquierda

(11,791 posts)
29. CommerzBank Arena in Frankfurt...
Fri Oct 18, 2019, 05:29 AM
Oct 2019

It’s in the middle of a giant park. Honestly I don’t know where the bulk of people park. Most take the train I guess.

a la izquierda

(11,791 posts)
45. That's it.
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 04:38 AM
Oct 2019

It’s a great place to watch football. I was just there two weeks ago. It was not sunny, however.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
19. you thought real hard about that
Fri Oct 18, 2019, 01:41 AM
Oct 2019

without thinking about the groundwater level being near the surface.

everything really is as simple as you say if you don't actually know much about it.

Hermit-The-Prog

(33,328 posts)
20. you thought real hard about Qatar to suggest groundwater is a problem?
Fri Oct 18, 2019, 01:54 AM
Oct 2019

The only problems Qatar has with groundwater are:

1. too little
2. pollution by agricultural runoff
3. salinization by intrusion of the ocean
4. karst limestone (cavities and sinkholes)

Any construction disturbs groundwater. It's not an obscure or insurmountable problem.

Hermit-The-Prog

(33,328 posts)
44. adobe construction is essentially above-ground cave building
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 01:33 AM
Oct 2019

Adobe houses work by using a very large thermal mass to even out the temperature swing from day to night.

world wide wally

(21,740 posts)
14. The business side of an air conditioner is cool but have you ever felt the air coming out of
Fri Oct 18, 2019, 01:17 AM
Oct 2019

the other side?

Duppers

(28,120 posts)
30. Exactly! This is beyond foolish.
Fri Oct 18, 2019, 09:10 AM
Oct 2019

They're guaranteeing that the planet's ultimate climate disaster happens sooner. Humans!


DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
26. I've seen a climate-change study that the Middle-East will be drastically hotter 100 years from now.
Fri Oct 18, 2019, 05:06 AM
Oct 2019

The argument was based around the temperature and air-moisture around the Persian Gulf. One possible scenario stated that the areas around the Persian Gulf could become so hot and moist, that humans could no longer sweat and be at severe risk of dying from heatstroke.

The affected areas were: the southern part of Iran, Kuwait, southern Iraq, eastern and central Saudi-Arabia, all the smaller Gulf-states.

The study said that 100 years from now, the Middle-East would become so hot that there's a good chance for an occasional hot summer-day when every human caught outside would straight-up die.

LeftInTX

(25,258 posts)
28. I dunno....I think the heat will just travel further from the equator
Fri Oct 18, 2019, 05:19 AM
Oct 2019

It's really, really bad in the Persian Gulf. (Worst temps in the world) The tendency would be for areas like Lebanon, Turkey and Northern Iran to become hotter.

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