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DFW

(60,182 posts)
Wed Oct 30, 2019, 08:47 PM Oct 2019

Meanwhile, back in Barcelona, Catalunya

I had to fly down there for work today. No trace of the violence portrayed a few days ago. Nice, warm (for us, not for them) sunny weather, people generally in a good mood, life back to normal. Not even extra guards at the Ajuntament in the center of the Barri Gòtic. The taxi driver bringing me back to the airport in the evening was a young guy, maybe mid twenties, blown away that an American would be speaking to him in Catalan, was more curious to know how in the world I spoke Catalan (I used to live there) than interested in talking about splitting off from Spain (not interested--and he drives a car for a living, didn't see much point in burning it).

The salesman at my favorite cheese stand at the Boqueria market still recognized me after almost 5 months of not having been there (he's Catalan), as did the women at my favorite dried-fruit-and-candy-stand (they are all Filipino). They always dump extra stuff into my bags after weighing and pricing what I wanted, because I'm the only non-Filipino that speaks to them in Tagalog (stress on the second syllable). Now, my Tagalog consists of maybe a 30 word vocabulary, if that, but apparently nobody else even bothers, so I get special treatment, and they all remember me. It doesn't do my waistline any good, but it does spread a lot of smiles around, so if what I buy there kills me, at least I can die happy.

After the Boqueria, I wandered back through the narrow streets of the Gothic Quarter to the office of some friends who own a small family business that has been in the same place since around 1910. I hung with them until it was time to get the taxi back to the airport. I have a lot of places that are like a second home to me by now, but Barcelona is one of the earliest ones, as I first set foot in that city over 50 years ago. Like the locals say, "hi ha molt que ha cambiat, però, hi ha molt que és el mateix (there is much that has changed, but there is much that is the same)."

Catalunya is very much Spain's major "giver state," just like New York and California are to us, but the majority of the Catalans still don't see splitting off any more than New York State does from the USA. They have some genuine grievances with Madrid that deserve attention, but splitting off altogether is not what most Catalans want, even if a noisy minority wants the world to think so. I don't blame them. New borders, application to join the EU (good luck with Spain's veto power), application to join the Euro and NATO, doing who-knows-what in the meantime.

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Meanwhile, back in Barcelona, Catalunya (Original Post) DFW Oct 2019 OP
good read. Thanks DFW. panader0 Oct 2019 #1
arroz negro enid602 Oct 2019 #2
Thanks, elleng Oct 2019 #3
I always think that Spain changed my life. How, I don't know. I was just so impressed with it. CTyankee Oct 2019 #4
I'm almost never in Italy DFW Oct 2019 #8
Well, I think the experience in Spain was different because it was infusive (is that a word?) as CTyankee Oct 2019 #14
Unfortunately, I have no experience with those companies DFW Oct 2019 #15
I've loved Catalunya since the 1960s. Barcelona was rough in the 70/80's erronis Oct 2019 #5
I wasn't down there much at all during the 1980s DFW Oct 2019 #9
Good points, especially about the CH erronis Oct 2019 #31
The really violent Basques were always very few in number DFW Oct 2019 #32
just back evertonfc Oct 2019 #6
Were you trying to watch the Classico (Barcelona - Madrid)? Ron Obvious Oct 2019 #12
messi.. We saw Messi bag a FK.... evertonfc Oct 2019 #26
I guess I don't have to ask if you had a good time! n/t DFW Oct 2019 #19
I fucking love Catalonia, from Barcelona all up into Perpignan, France. Goodheart Oct 2019 #7
It does grow on you DFW Oct 2019 #10
I was just there this past Wednesday Solomon Oct 2019 #11
I was there a few days in the 70s treestar Oct 2019 #13
You're probably thinking of Saturday morning DFW Oct 2019 #17
I love Barcelona. It's my favorite city. nt tblue37 Oct 2019 #16
It's an easy city to give that title to! DFW Oct 2019 #18
My ex was a professor of Spanish. We used to take a study-abroad group there each summer. tblue37 Oct 2019 #21
I was there in the Franco era. DFW Oct 2019 #24
Me too. Our trips started in 1971. nt tblue37 Oct 2019 #27
My first time was 1968 DFW Oct 2019 #28
I was always nervous around the Guardia Civil and their automatic weapons. nt tblue37 Oct 2019 #29
Ah, yes, "the Guads," as we called them DFW Oct 2019 #30
In Barcelona last year. kairos12 Oct 2019 #20
I can imagine! DFW Oct 2019 #22
Those cobbled streets in the Barrio Gotico date back to Medieval times. Some stores there tblue37 Oct 2019 #23
They certainly do! DFW Oct 2019 #25

CTyankee

(68,200 posts)
4. I always think that Spain changed my life. How, I don't know. I was just so impressed with it.
Wed Oct 30, 2019, 08:59 PM
Oct 2019

Crossing the Pyrenees was mystical.

Something happens to you in Spain, I believe...not even when I'm in my beloved Florence or my beloved Paris.

But I'm thinking of visiting Arezzo again, perhaps with my daughter and one of my granddaughters so they can hear the bells go every hour...I think it changes your body rhythm. But it is calming and lovely. I wrote a little bit about this in my book, Immutable Truth. I was writing about being on the Piero della Francesca trail. It was truly beautiful and humbling. Piero is not very well known in this country,probably because his work was in frescoes and to visit them in situ is a bit daunting. But so worth it.

DFW

(60,182 posts)
8. I'm almost never in Italy
Thu Oct 31, 2019, 04:46 AM
Oct 2019

For some reason, it's a place my work never takes me. We haven't even been to Rome. My wife and I have vague plans to take a week there some day. It's only about a 2 hour flight from here, so it's not like it would require a lot of planning, and I can speak the language passably. But I'm still working, and my wife has her sick mom up in the north, and there's our granddaughter down in the Taunus, near Frankfurt (#2 on the way, too). We also have our two yearly non-negotiable trips to the USA (Cape Cod in the summer, Renaissance Weekend over New Year's). So it's difficult to fit other stuff in.

Spain, on the other hand....well, I lived there as a teenager, and as you experienced for yourself, once it's in your bones, it doesn't leave.

CTyankee

(68,200 posts)
14. Well, I think the experience in Spain was different because it was infusive (is that a word?) as
Thu Oct 31, 2019, 07:55 AM
Oct 2019

opposed to the intellectually driven research like I was doing on Italian Renaissance art.

Do you have any advice on those companies that offer you a car and driver right there at the airport, meet your flight, take you to your bed and breakfast, etc. ? I am too old to manage the trains in Italy, altho I have done it in the past, so a driver sounds good (this is for the Arezzo. trip).

DFW

(60,182 posts)
15. Unfortunately, I have no experience with those companies
Thu Oct 31, 2019, 09:29 AM
Oct 2019

I know they are there, but I have never used their services, and have no idea where to find one. Either a travel agent or the good old internet?

erronis

(23,874 posts)
5. I've loved Catalunya since the 1960s. Barcelona was rough in the 70/80's
Wed Oct 30, 2019, 09:00 PM
Oct 2019

but the region has regained its pride as it should.

Spain is such a rich nation of various groups and generally it has honored the diversity. At the same time I can understand regions wanting a significant autonomy. Perhaps that could work as regional groups within the EU - where national borders are largely invisible.

My best hopes to everyone there, and to Europe as a whole - while under assault by the current trumputin alliance. It wouldn't surprise me to find that many of the worst incidents of disruption are carried out from Moscow or Washington.

DFW

(60,182 posts)
9. I wasn't down there much at all during the 1980s
Thu Oct 31, 2019, 05:01 AM
Oct 2019

My "frequent (maybe 6 or 7 times a year)" visits didn't resume until about 20 years ago.

Ever since Franco died, autonomy was restored to the regions most clamoring for it. Euzkadi, the Basque country, and Catalunya both got pretty much everything they lost when the Fascists won the civil war in 1939. I haven't been back to Euzkadi since the 1960s, but in Catalunya, the language is now again publicly dominant. Among the people, of course, it always was. Street signs, newspapers, TV stations, radio stations, schools, all are now again in Catalan. The major boulevards, all renamed after Franco and his fascist generals when they won the civil war, now have their original names back (the locals never stopped using them anyway).

So, the separatist movement is no longer about cultural identity, but money. My personal view is that the money should be negotiable, and the cultural identity should not. I think this is why Turkey is still at war with itself and Spain is not. Even the extremist Basques have stopped blowing up stuff. I think of tiny Switzerland with its diverse ethnic make-up, and how it wouldn't even occur to ANY Swiss to want to separate their regions from the rest. My only full-time guy down there is from Geneva, and so is French-speaking. He speaks a little Italian, maybe three words of German, and zero of the Swiss version. Ask him if he thinks any of Switzerland should want to leave the Confederation, and he'd look at you as if you'd lost that last of your marbles.

erronis

(23,874 posts)
31. Good points, especially about the CH
Thu Oct 31, 2019, 02:32 PM
Oct 2019

I lived in Geneva for several years in the 60s and have revisited whenever possible (and when I can afford it.) The various groups/cantons in Switzerland have a very distinct personality and don't much want a homogenization - fondue/raclette but no "melting pot" ala the US (as if...)

I also traveled in southwest France during some of the Basque revolts and remember the tensions from that time. I'm really glad that whatever necessary conciliation happened.

DFW

(60,182 posts)
32. The really violent Basques were always very few in number
Thu Oct 31, 2019, 02:40 PM
Oct 2019

When Franco died, and the cultural repression faded, their raison d'être did, too. When the populace was basically fre from government repression, the last thing the Basques needed was a tiny violent group fighting for a cause that no longer existed.

I was just down in Zürich last weekend. I was going back and forth from Swiss-German to French to Italian every half minute, and so was everyone else. They have no problem whatsoever with the different ethnicity-one nationality reality.

*and you're right, the place is RIDICULOUSLY expensive!!

 

evertonfc

(1,713 posts)
6. just back
Wed Oct 30, 2019, 09:04 PM
Oct 2019

I just returned with my High School senior. We went to see Messi at Camp Nou during fall break but are in love with the city now. Great read, thanks.

 

Ron Obvious

(6,261 posts)
12. Were you trying to watch the Classico (Barcelona - Madrid)?
Thu Oct 31, 2019, 07:24 AM
Oct 2019

Hope you got to see Messi anyway, with the game being postponed because of the unrest. I think it's been rescheduled for Nov 18th, but there are issues with time of day. Apparently, one home game must be scheduled at the right time for the Chinese TV market, and one for the US market. I don't know if they have all that sorted yet.

What a complicated world we live in.

 

evertonfc

(1,713 posts)
26. messi.. We saw Messi bag a FK....
Thu Oct 31, 2019, 10:40 AM
Oct 2019

We caught the Seville match the weekend before the unrest.

 

Goodheart

(5,760 posts)
7. I fucking love Catalonia, from Barcelona all up into Perpignan, France.
Wed Oct 30, 2019, 09:07 PM
Oct 2019

Beautiful cities, beautiful hills, beautiful coast, beautiful people.

DFW

(60,182 posts)
10. It does grow on you
Thu Oct 31, 2019, 06:38 AM
Oct 2019

To the right kind of person, it becomes addictive, and you just don't want to leave. I know one guy from Houston, maybe early to mid-thirties, happened to pass through on a trip to Europe. A year later, he was there, filling out forms to request residency and taking courses in Catalan. He ditched his job and his life (to the extent he had one--I don't know him well) in Houston and said Barcelona is home. Just like that. An extreme case, you might say, but probably not unique.

Solomon

(12,644 posts)
11. I was just there this past Wednesday
Thu Oct 31, 2019, 06:50 AM
Oct 2019

thru Sunday. Weather was great. Got a personal tour of the stadium and, my God, the Sagrada. It was fantastic!

treestar

(82,383 posts)
13. I was there a few days in the 70s
Thu Oct 31, 2019, 07:26 AM
Oct 2019

On a Sunday, there was dancing in front of the cathedral. I also recall the "Ramblas." The language is interesting to compare to Spanish - I love Romance languages. "Ha cambiat" vs. "Ha cambiado." "Pero" is similar. "es" from "to be" quite similar.

DFW

(60,182 posts)
17. You're probably thinking of Saturday morning
Thu Oct 31, 2019, 10:08 AM
Oct 2019

The Sardana, the traditional Catalan folk dance, is performed by everybody and anybody every Saturday morning in front of the Cathedral.

In Castilian, "pero" has the stress on the first syllable. In Catalan, it's on the second syllable: "però," just like in Italian.

Catalan is similar to Medieval French (Langue d'Oc&quot . Texts in Catalan predate texts in Castilian by about a century. Anything directly Latin-related will be similar in Castilian and Catalan unless the Arabic expression is dominant in Castilian. Some words of the old Latin stayed on in use when the rest of the Latin languages moved on (i.e. the Spanish "comer"--to eat--is straight from the Latin "comere," whereas Catalan, French and Italian now use the vernacular mengiar, manger, and mangiare). In Castilian, to say "there aren't any," one just says, "no hay." In Catalan, you say "no en hi ha," more similar to the French "il n'y en a pas." In Castilian, to say that something has nothing to do with something else ("nothing to see" in the Romance languages), you say, "nada que ver con....," where the Catalan "res à veure amb....." is more similar to the French "rien à voir avec......" For "cheese," Spanish even uses the Gothic import word "queso," which is the similarly pronounced Käse in German. Catalan/French/Italian use the vernacular Latin "formatge/fromage,formaggio." Where "to find" in Castillian is either "hallar" or "encontrar," in Catalan/French/Italian, it's "trovar/trouver/trovare." In Catalan the unstressed "o" is pronounced like the English long "u," so the first syllable in Catalan is identical to the French.

The Castilian "es" is pronounced with a soft unvoiced "S" where the Catalan "és" uses a voiced "S," like our "Z." "Casa" is written the same, but in Catalan it is pronounced exactly like in Italian as if it were (in English) "caza."

etc etc........

That should prepare you for your next trip to the western Mediterranean!

DFW

(60,182 posts)
18. It's an easy city to give that title to!
Thu Oct 31, 2019, 10:11 AM
Oct 2019

Every time I run down there, I think, what a glorious place this was to live in.

tblue37

(68,436 posts)
21. My ex was a professor of Spanish. We used to take a study-abroad group there each summer.
Thu Oct 31, 2019, 10:17 AM
Oct 2019

We traveled all over Spain, and loved many places, but Barcelona was our base, and our favorite.

DFW

(60,182 posts)
24. I was there in the Franco era.
Thu Oct 31, 2019, 10:20 AM
Oct 2019

No school in Catalan was permitted. Nowadays some American Spanish-language programs that used to be based there have moved to other parts of Spain. I can understand why, but the thought of spending a semester or a school year in Spain in another city just seems a shame if you have the chance to live in Barcelona instead.

DFW

(60,182 posts)
28. My first time was 1968
Thu Oct 31, 2019, 01:06 PM
Oct 2019

First time in a dictatorship, although things had loosened up considerably since the 1950s, I was told. Franco ditched his Axis pals Mussolini and Hitler in the middle of the Second World War, even though he had them to thank for his victory in the Spanish Civil War. He always was one for sensing which way the wind was blowing, and wasted no time making overtures to the allies before the war was even over.

DFW

(60,182 posts)
30. Ah, yes, "the Guads," as we called them
Thu Oct 31, 2019, 02:01 PM
Oct 2019

I think you had to prove you could walk around with a nasty expression to even join them in those days.

About ten years ago, I was talking to a young female GC at a delayed security check at the Barcelona airport, and it was as if I had been talking to a sales clerk. Loose, friendly, completely normal. They finally ditched those black cardboard hats!

kairos12

(13,588 posts)
20. In Barcelona last year.
Thu Oct 31, 2019, 10:14 AM
Oct 2019

Such a wonderful place. The narrow streets and spectacular art. We just loved it.

DFW

(60,182 posts)
22. I can imagine!
Thu Oct 31, 2019, 10:18 AM
Oct 2019

You could easily spend a week there and barely scratch the surface of all there is to see and do.

tblue37

(68,436 posts)
23. Those cobbled streets in the Barrio Gotico date back to Medieval times. Some stores there
Thu Oct 31, 2019, 10:19 AM
Oct 2019

in the Barrio Gótico have walls built in Roman times.

DFW

(60,182 posts)
25. They certainly do!
Thu Oct 31, 2019, 10:23 AM
Oct 2019

Cars have a hard time getting to some addresses, because some of them won't fit.

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