On Boycotting Facebook

[MineralMan]

I use Facebook to keep in touch with family and old, dispersed friends. My posts can be seen only by people I have friended. I have set all of my security and privacy settings to maintain my privacy and control what appears in my feed. Nobody can post directly on my feed, either.

I'm active in requesting that ads from right-wing political groups not appear in my feed. Everytime one does, I use Facebook tools to tell the company that I don't want to see that sort of thing. I do the same for clickbait sites. I've been doing that for a very long time, and the result is that I see very little of that any longer.

I've noticed that a lot of DUers take pride in not using Facebook, and that's fine. But, if you're not on the site, you can't flag anything on the site or request that you not see it. You have zero input into the site. Since millions and millions of people use Facebook, I doubt that the company really cares that many DUers don't use it. People who are not on Facebook are of no interest to Facebook, the company. The company doesn't care if you use it or not. It has plenty of people who do.

I have a couple of family members who frequently share crap from right wing sites on their own feeds. When I see one of those, I use the Facebook tools to block the sites that the post come from. Now, I rarely see anything like that, since those family members keep going back to sites I have blocked from appearing on my feed when they are shared.

Why don't I just unfriend those people? Because they are family, and because they play a role in caring for my 95-year-old parents. It's important that I maintain the Facebook connection, because we use Facebook Messenger to share information that is important for my parents' well-being.

So, boycott Facebook if that's your preference. But, don't tell me that I must do the same. I'm telling Facebook daily what I do and do not want to see. You're not telling Facebook anything, and Facebook doesn't care that you aren't using their website. I don't care, either, whether you use it or not. I need Facebook for the reasons described above. I use it for those reasons.

Just know that your boycott of Facebook does not affect Facebook in any way. You do not exist, as far as Facebook is concerned. You don't matter to Facebook. I use Facebook. I don't matter much to the company, either, but I do use all of its tools to let the company know what pisses me off about what shows up on my feed. Does Facebook pay any attention to that? Well, yes. I see far less of it now than I used to, and I can absolutely control what right-wingers share that might appear on my feed.

Boycott Facebook? No, thanks, but you're welcome to do so.

[AirmensMom]

1. Thank you, MineralMan.

You said it so much better than I could have.

[MineralMan]

2. My pleasure.

[Jirel]

3. Dead on, except in one detail.

Facebook does care whether you use it. They don’t want to go he way of Twitter, which has stopped advertising its monthly user numbers because they know advertisers will go elsewhere.

But you are correct that if you don’t use it (and many of us have good reason to, such as being admins for organizations’ pages that have an impact), you have no say. Currently, it and Instagram (same thing, since FB owns it) are something of a common carrier by dint of usage. I make sure to block ads, scrub my profile of “interests,” block every advertiser within the platform that makes it through, and report all those ads at least as Spam, if not for being offensive material/hate speech/similar in the case of Nazi ads.

If you don’t use Facebook, you can’t be part of disrupting its business or the instigators of hate and lies.

[Johnny2X2X]

4. Good points

I am still on Facebook too as I cannot fight the misinformation as effectively if I am not there to see it.

One thing though, Facebook follows you to every website you visit. Facebook can track your browser history and target ads to you on other websites.

[MineralMan]

8. So does Google. Ads are everywhere.

I have the ability to ignore ads that are not relevant to me, so I use that ability constantly.

[Johnny2X2X]

20. I think people underestimate the threat here

You're one of my favorite posters here MineralMan, your thoughts are intelligent and measured. What I think people fail to realize is that we can all be manipulated, the technology being unleashed on the American public right now is not advertising, it's mind control and manipulation. I can guarantee that you, I, and every other DU poster has a belief or two that is not true because of these manipulations and attacks. Maybe it's something relatively innocuous right now, like maybe something I have been led to believe about the DNC's behavior in the 2016 primaries is wrong, maybe some factoid I think I know about the Clintons is slanted slightly. Maybe buried in a seemingly pro Biden article post I read is something that planted a seed of doubt about something related to his son so that maybe in a few months I'll be more apt to believe something fishy was going on.

That's what's going on here. None of us are immune. Acknowledging that is part of the solution IMO. Facebook is an instrument of mind control and it's CEO has been bribed to allow it to be used unfettered. And this is not some fake news technique, these are carefully studied and scientific methods of mind control. It's a threat to our country in every way.

[5X]

29. Exactly this. n/t

[Thekaspervote]

43. Agree!! FB should suffer a boycott, they would soon be forced to change their ways

Besides, there are lots of other platforms one can keep up with their F&F

[MineralMan]

54. I don't use Facebook to learn things. I use it to keep in touch with friends

and family. I don't use it for news. I don't use it for politics. I use it just for the two purposes I mentioned. I don't need any immunity to see what my old friends and my family are doing, nor to let them know what I'm doing.

As far as I know, none of my friends or family are trying to manipulate me. I pay no attention to anything else on Facebook. I have many other sources for information, and that site is not one of them.

My mind isn't going to be controlled by Facebook. Not the way I use it.

[HAB911]

5. They asked me this morning

"how are we doing, or do you feel we are protecting you or something like that and then allowed a comment. I told them to follow the lead of Twitter and ban ALL political ads, even the ones that tell the truth.

[MineralMan]

10. I've gotten things like that, too.

When I do, I take the time to provide feedback. Why wouldn't I? They're asking me what I want to see. I tell them.

[Wounded Bear]

7. I basically follow the same system...

so I get very little RW crap on my feed, and when I do, I take the time to do the 3 or 4 clicks it takes to block repeats.

[MineralMan]

9. Exactly. As a user, you have to USE the tools made available

by the website. If you do, you can control what you see to a large degree. It takes a little time, but it's worth spending that time.

[Maven]

11. Facebook doesn't give a rat's behind about your "input" as long as they get your personal data.

What you do, what you buy, where you go, what your political preferences are, what your friends look like. That's what they're selling to advertisers who then use your data to peddle products and push disinformation out to others in your demographic.

Facebook is malware.

[MineralMan]

12. Really? If that's the case, why am I not seeing what you're describing?

I know why. Do you?

Like I said, I'm not suggesting that you use Facebook. I'm telling you why I use it and how I tailor it to suit my needs.

Ads? There are ads everywhere. I ignore the ones that aren't relevant to me. Really, I ignore almost all ads. I know how to find the goods and services I need.

You do you. I'll do me. Thanks.

[Maven]

17. Really? You're not seeing it because:

A) Your data is aggregated with others', and you aren't privy to Facebook's targeting algorithms, and

B) You're only seeing your "feed" and not the feeds of many others who are impacted on a macro scale by your activity.

You may be able to tailor your personal experience on the platform, but that is ultimately meaningless except to you personally. The thing about Facebook is that many people can be individually targeted with disinformation and countless others are none the wiser because each user has his or own personalized feed.

Look, Facebook is addictive. It's designed to be that way. If it scratches an itch for you, fine, but you're not really doing anyone a service by being an active participant in their social engineering platform.

[redstatebluegirl]

13. Thank you MineralMan, this is how I feel as well.

We have lived in 5 different states so we have friends and family all over the country and the world for that matter. With facebook I can see pictures of my friends, their children and grandchildren. I can keep up with them in a way I would not have time to do otherwise.

Like you I have managed to keep my privacy as best I can using the tools available to me. I have only "unfriended" a couple of people. One was a former student who just went over the cliff crazy a few years ago, and a cousin who is so far right he makes me uncomfortable with his posts.

I think the people who say we should not use Facebook are the same purists who say some of us are not "real democrats" unless we think exactly like they do.

Personally I have found Twitter to be more of a cesspool than Facebook. That is just my opinion, people are free to do as they choose.

[MineralMan]

15. It's easier to control your Twitter feed than your Facebook feed.

I use Twitter, too, primarily as a business tool. I post frequently on the topic of Neuromarketing, a field in which I work. I have lots and lots of followers, but I follow almost nobody. That keeps my Twitter feed clean. I don't post on politics or anything else on Twitter. I use it for a very specific purpose. I have just one Twitter account, and that's connected to the business side of things.

I do follow links from DU and elsewhere to read other Tweets, but I keep my thoughts to myself when it comes to politics on Twitter. Posting politically would be detrimental to my business interests.

I have a business page on Facebook, too, which is separate from my personal feed. That page is 100% business oriented, and stays 100% neutral on politics and everything else. That's easy to do.

[redstatebluegirl]

19. I am down to part time now and will fully retire in late 2020 or early 2021.

If I had my own business again like I did in my 30's I would not post anything political on anything and would be much more careful than I am now. I still try to keep it family and friend type things, pictures of kids, updates on vacations and jobs things like that.

[MineralMan]

23. Lots and lots of people use Facebook as a purely social gathering place.

It works great for that. I'm part of several FB groups, most of them private or closed. There are a couple about the branch of the USAF I was part of 50 years ago. There's a group of alumni from my small town high school that I participate in. I'm part of a group that discusses crystal radio receivers, and another group that discusses the latest computer controlled radio equipment.

Every one of those groups prohibits any posts about politics. If someone posts about politics, that person gets warned and the post is deleted. If that person persists, he or she gets booted from the group.

I control my Facebook experience. Facebook does not control me.

[Maven]

26. I didn't say they control you. I said they use your data.

And they don't need your political views spelled out for them either. It's shocking what kind of information they can glean about your preferences from purely social interactions.

[MineralMan]

28. I don't care about that, either.

Why should I? My data? On Facebook my data is from my actual name and identity. I am not anonymous on Facebook, nor really anywhere else. I gave up on Internet anonymity long, long ago. It takes approximately 30 seconds on Google to find out who I am in real life. That's who I am. I don't have a secret life on the Internet. Why would I?

[Maven]

31. Your approach to this seems to be "if it doesn't affect me personally, why should I care?"

Which isn't really the point.

Although it is what Facebook is counting on. If each individual user only focuses on his or her personalized experience, it is easy to ignore the harm that Facebook is causing on a collective level.

[MineralMan]

34. See. I don't care about your Facebook experience, to tell you the truth.

I care about mine, and I do everything I can to control it. Facebook works just fine for me in keeping in touch with family and friends, which is why I use it. I explained that in the OP. That's how I use it, as an individual. I also have a business page there, but I keep that separate from my personal Facebook presence. I don't mention my business page in my personal feed, and I don't mention my personal feed on my business page. There's no cross-contamination.

I use social media. Social media doesn't use me. You can do the same thing. Anyone can.

If you find Facebook intrusive, stay off of it. That's easy. Why do you find it necessary to tell me I shouldn't use it? Think about that, OK?

[cwydro]

37. I've noticed a few posters here who love to lecture the rest of us about using facebook.

Usually the same folks who lecture us if we dare to watch television.

I’m never quite sure if they’re preaching to show off how wonderful and pure they think they are, or if they just want to point out how wonderful and pure the rest of us aren’t!

[Maven]

41. ?

I didn't start this OP and I'm not lecturing anyone.

I was responding to a premise in the OP that someone else started, with which I happen to disagree. Has nothing to do with purity. Although I do find the defensiveness by some when it comes to this topic somewhat telling.

[cwydro]

63. I wasn't talking about you at all.

I had some others in mind.

And I was responding to Mineral Man, not you. I hadn’t even read your posts when I responded to the OP.

Never a good thing to take posts personally here.

[Thekaspervote]

61. I'm not lecturing... and I don't preach either. FB is making an American oligarch out of Zuckerberg

If not already.

He is not kind to Dems. Runs millions of misinformation ads for the dotard against the Dems. Is that what you want? Meets with dotard in the WH shaking his hand.

He is one greedy bastard, and part of what’s wrong.

Lots of other social media platforms to keep up with F&F

[cwydro]

64. I was responding to the OP, and I wasn't thinking of you in my response.

Thinking of some others who are not even on this thread.

[Thekaspervote]

46. I just cannot agree!! That creep Zuckerberg is not our friend. Your F&F that luv you will find

Other ways to keep in touch.

Using FB is playing with fire... it will and is backfiring

[MineralMan]

50. I don't want Zuckerberg to be my friend.

That's why I've never sent him a friend request on Facebook. He hasn't sent me one, either. Odd, isn't it, if he wants to be my friend.

There are other ways to keep in touch with some people. I could call them or text them, I suppose, if I knew their cell numbers. For most of my Facebook friends, though, I don't. Besides, I don't need to. They check into Facebook from time to time and they see my posts, to which they can reply or not, as they choose. I could email them, but some don't have an email address, like my 95 year old parents. They can go on Facebook, though, and do, to see photos of their great-grandchildren, mostly.

How will Facebook backfire on me, do you think? I haven't seen any evidence of any backfiring from it. But, if you know of some way Facebook might cause me harm, do tell me, please. I don't see how that's possible, really.

[Thekaspervote]

57. It backfires because every click, every use puts more money in his pocket.

He’s a crook and it emboldeneds him to continue. If FB suffered a serious boycott, they would be forced to change their ways, just like twitter.

How can you agree to use FB when everyday the dotard launches millions of dollars of misinformation ads against the Dems?

I am not a purist, far from it. Have always believed in “enemy of my enemy my friend.” He is not our friend. And I’m not talking about a FB friend

[MineralMan]

69. I don't click on anything on FB, except the reply button on my friends' posts.

I have never clicked on an ad anywhere on the Internet. If I want to buy something, I search for it. I have never clicked on any political thing on Facebook. I do my research and vote based on what the candidate stands for.

So, I'm not, you know, Facebook's target user. I use Facebook for very specific things, just as I do with everything on the Internet. The platform exists, and the people I want to stay in touch with use that platform. I have a business page on Facebook, as well, but I don't advertise that page on Facebook. Instead, it can be accessed from other Internet entities. The page has information on it that is useful to some people, along with information on how to contact me or the man who owns the business I'm associated with. It generates a few contacts each month from people who are interested in our services. So, it's worth maintaining and updating to reach people on Facebook and provides a free platform we can use for that purpose. Facebook would like me to advertise that page on Facebook. I just ignore that, though, and use it the way I want to use it.

I have a Twitter feed for business, too. That's the only reason I bother with Twitter at all. Both Twitter and Facebook are platforms I can use for my own purposes. Both give me space at no charge. Both hope I will pay to advertise those spaces, but don't bother me if I don't pay. They still let me use their platform as I choose. If that changes, I will take those pages down.

Political parties and candidates buy ads on all sorts of media. Facebook is no exception. I don't vote based on ads, ever. Do you? If I use any media, I'm going to be exposed to misleading ads from political groups. I ignore them all and do my own research.

I use the tools available to me in all areas. The Internet is just one area where tools are available for use. I find it very valuable to me, and use the tools and platforms for my own purposes. DU, for example, is part of the Internet. I use it all the time as my home base for discussing politics. I support it with small donations, because I find it useful to me. I'm very active here, because DU is the only place where I discuss politics. Every now and then, someone complains about the ads they see on DU. Those ads include ads paid for by right-wingers. They help pay for DU to remain online, but I never see them, because I donate a small amount every year to DU. On Facebook, I can't pay to shut off the ads, so I do something old-fashioned. I ignore them, just as I ignore ads on television and elsewhere.

I use Facebook for the reasons I gave in the post that started this thread. And that's it. Facebook has no power to harm me. It is just a platform on the Internet that I use for a particular purpose. Nothing more.

[Thekaspervote]

106. Every time you use FB in any form you put money in their pocket. It's called click bait

And they sell your information and anyone you make contact with on their site.

“There is no privacy.” M. Zuckerberg

[ismnotwasm]

14. I just introduced my new puppy on Facebook

I’m not actually a big user of it, and I have zero right wing crap on my timeline. I’m not that interesting a person, so any data they get from me isn’t going to help them.
.


My puppy is a Russian German Shepard, from guard dogs. I’m thinking of naming her mafia.

[MineralMan]

16. Ooooh! Puppy!

I'm sure your Facebook friends are very glad to see your new friend!

[ismnotwasm]

27. They are.

Offering hilarious name suggestions!

[MineralMan]

30. Pet names. My pets' names all just came to me in a flash.

It's funny, really. My wife lets me name all our animals.

My favorite was a black and white long-haired cat. His name was Butthead, which came to me the first time I saw him as a tiny kitten.

[ismnotwasm]

47. lol!

My husband had a dog named Shithead; her real name was Shelly. Our last big dog (he passed last year) name was Pilot, we saw that bumper sticker “Dog is my co-pilot” and there it was. We are currently in our name discussion. I want Mafia, he’s leaning toward Shadow. She’s going be gorgeous. A big dark German Shepard.

[MineralMan]

55. Give Mafia a shoulder rub for me, OK?

[ismnotwasm]

72. Ha!

We went with Shadow. I spoil my husband rotten. He spoils me. It works out

[MineralMan]

78. Shadow it is, then...

[MineralMan]

18. One Other Note on Facebook

I do not post about politics on Facebook. Ever. I use it in the way I described above.

I post about politics on Democratic Underground. Frequently.

[Maven]

22. ...

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/alexkantrowitz/heres-how-facebook-tracks-you-when-youre-not-on-facebook

[MineralMan]

24. Sure. I know that. So does Google. So does Amazon.

I don't care. I can't see how that affects my life, to be quite frank. I am perfectly capable of ignoring any ads that appear when I'm on the Internet. I've been doing that since 1995.

BTW, I keep a Facebook tab open in my browser all the time. That way, I am notified if there's something I need to look at there. Same with my email client, DU, and Twitter.

I even sometimes log into sites, like IMDB, using my Facebook ID. It's easy, fast, and I don't give a damn if I get tracked. If I don't want to be tracked, I use a different browser and a different identity in an incognito or private browser tab. That's rare, though.

You seem concerned, so you should probably avoid Facebook. I'm not concerned about that kind of tracking. It's everywhere on the Internet. Why would I care, really?

[LiberalFighter]

21. Sometimes I identify the ads or posts as sexually offensive.

[cbdo2007]

25. Very well said MM

I just can't quit you - Facebook! I wish there was another easy way to share pics of my kids regularly with relatives out of town, but there just isn't. I don't see ads on mine...they are there, but I have conditioned myself somehow to not notice them at all. My wife will tell me about some ad she saw, while looking at my screen, and I have no recollection of even noticing it.

That all being said, should Facebook allow people to show advertisements that are blatantly false? No. Something should be done about this. But I won't be quitting Facebook. In 10 years, there will be some new shinier thing someone has come up with and Facebook will be the new MySpace and so on.

[MineralMan]

32. Thanks! I don't see the ads, either, really.

When I notice them, they're usually an ad for a thing I had already bought. Like a new car. After we bought our 2020 KIA Soul, and I posted photos of it, etc. on all the sites I'm on, I started seeing ads for other new cars. How silly! What a waste of money. I also posted a review of the car and of the dealer I bought it from. So, I get car dealer ads, too. I already bought a new car. Advertise to me in five years, not now. It's hilarious.

[Thekaspervote]

48. Instagram is a great way to share. If everyone boycotted FB, they would change their evil ways

Here Zuckerberg meeting with dotard at the WH....you want to be part of this??!!

https://www.google.com/search?q=picture+of+zuckerberg+meeting+with+trump+at+WH&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari#imgrc=dBsmZjtLV0c_cM:

[MineralMan]

56. How does that meeting affect me?

Zuckerberg is an aging incel, and he met another one. I don't care.

[Thekaspervote]

62. That's a sad attitude

[Princess Turandot]

70. Instagram has been owned by Facebook since 2012. (It first launched in 2010.) nt

[Thekaspervote]

88. I know that!! They at least don't do political ads

It’s wrong to use a forum that is run by a young man so greedy he meets with dotard to assure him He can run his false ads against Dems that may loose the election for us??!! Why am I the only one?

[cbdo2007]

76. Instagram Facebook

[tavernier]

84. Are there ads on FB??

Seriously, I’m there a lot and haven’t noticed. 😂 Ads have been in my world visually and audibly 24/7 for years and I guess my brain automatically deletes them as they are an annoyance.

[LeftInTX]

97. Here's a FB Ad:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/RogYktDvs6oKvao2A

[GusBob]

33. Hmmm lets see

I live, and work, in very remote areas. Sometimes I don't have phone voice service

With FB I can, in a matter of minutes, on a daily basis:
Keep in touch with my far-flung family, from young cousins to elderly aunts all over the world
Keep in touch with colleagues, which is very important for the specialized type of work I do
Keep in touch with friends of all stripes form all over Barrow AK to Aukland NZ, which includes a number of active duty service members. Keeping touch across time zones is very very helpful

Keep track of news, from specific small town news to regional news and national news
Weather now with winter approaching is huge. If our work site is influenced by weather issues I can find out pronto

In my limited free time enjoy my varied interests, literally dozens of things from archeology to zoology.
Food and cooking are big ones as I don't get decent eats, so

I don't know of another service that will allow my to do these things with the brief windows of Wi-Fi I am able to employ

[MineralMan]

35. See. You're using Facebook as it was designed to be used.

Anyone can use it that way, if they choose, and millions do.

I'm glad it works well for you.

[GusBob]

39. Well Sir to me its more important than that

I view it as absolutely vital to the career and life that I have chosen to live

As for privacy I could give 2 hoots. I am doing a job very people could or would want to in places they would not choose to live. I help alot of needy people who need help. Thats my “woke”

I take umbrage to the purists who are telling me to boycott. I have a feeling they couldnt hack my lifestyle for a minute

[cwydro]

36. As always -

Spot on.

[LeftInTX]

38. YouTube is a much worse offender

[MineralMan]

58. That's funny. How do you use YouTube?

I use it to find videos of how to do things I need to do sometimes. I use it to look up old film clips. I have a few videos posted on YouTube, but few people have watched them. That's OK, because some of those people were people I told about them.

I don't know how to use YouTube to be manipulated. I do a search for something and then watch the video that matches my search. How do you use it?

[LeftInTX]

71. Lots of RW alt-right stuff

Even during Hurricane Dorian, I was watching a livefeed from the Weather Channel and crazy right wing trolls were posting at wild abandon.

Also this is where the alt right posts tons of their videos.

There is lots of good stuff on YouTube, but I think in terms of right wing propaganda, I think YouTube wins because it is videos and it is more anonymous than Facebook.



https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/03/inside-right-wing-youtube-turning-millennials-conservative-prageru-video-dennis-prager/
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/06/08/technology/youtube-radical.html?mtrref=www.google.com&gwh=3F378E34D665F8FE6C703601D0C0B6F0&gwt=pay&assetType=REGIWALL

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/3dy7vb/why-the-right-is-dominating-youtube

https://www.fastcompany.com/90238741/youtubes-right-wing-influencers-are-more-organized-than-you-think

https://variety.com/2018/digital/news/youtube-far-right-influencers-1202946918/

[librechik]

40. I used to sigh and use FB for the same reasons, MM

And I don't boycott them, as you point out, why bother? They are too powerful for mere users to affect their actions. Nevertheless, I seldom post there and seldom read FB anymore for the same reason I seldom post on DU.Some of the things said by some of the most popular posters are just revolting and strange. I'm trying to stay human, thanks.

And I wouldn't' dream of telling you what to do. Why bother? Etc...

I suppose my attitude would change if I were using it for biz, like some.

[Claritie Pixie]

42. I am thrilled I don't exist in Facebook's world. Never have.

I'm not boycotting I've just never wanted to be a part of it, privacy and time waste main reasons.

To each his own. It seems you've figured out how to make Facebook palatable for your purposes.

But overall, I think Facebook's negatives far outweigh the benefits and is detrimental to our society in its current form.

[Thekaspervote]

49. A voice of sanity... thank you!

[northoftheborder]

77. agree with 42. I'm not trying to tell anyone else what to do.

[LittleGirl]

44. I live 5000 miles from my mother

Who uses Facebook and she has asked family not to post politics so I don’t.
But as long as she’s alive, she 87, I will use it. But I completely agree with every point you’ve made. I have struggled with Zuckerberg’s stance lately.
Thank you for stating it better than I could.

[bamagal62]

45. I'm the same.

I have a few people that I need to keep up with and Facebook is the best way. My elderly mother loves Facebook because she can see what her children and grandchildren are doing. It keeps her connected and that is a good thing. In addition, I’m in a couple of online courses that use Facebook private groups for feedback with the students and instructor. If I had other options, I would leave.

[Thekaspervote]

52. I live 1,200 from my daughter, about the same from a dear sis

What’s wrong with face time?!

[yuiyoshida]

51. I left FB a long time ago...

prefer twitter now...its simple and its easy to kick off a message. Besides, what I love best is
being in touch with Japanese bands..some even follow me back which is a thrill..Like
AN CAFE...and Band Maid!

[Thekaspervote]

59. Good for you!! Great pics by the way. Twitter, yes no political ads and just as easy to use

[LanternWaste]

53. Sounds like a pretty juicy rationalization to justify its use.

But I get it... every time a boycott comes up (DeBeers, the country of Brunei, Ivanka's fashion line, etc.) there's going to be a core fan base who will tell us their preferences outweigh the actual concern, and that we have zero input into those companies' decisions, actions and consequences.

And of course, you're welcome to do so.

[bdamomma]

60. Thank you MineralMan

I also have FB. But I don't frequent it much. But you are doing the right thing to block those sites that spew right wing crap. Maybe FB will get the message,

[dlk]

65. The big money is in collecting and selling personal data

Individuals should be the owners of their personal data, not the corporations that continually monetize it. Much more stringent rules of the road are very sorely needed.

[Mike Nelson]

66. Agree...

... I have the same thoughts and use social media to promote good stuff over lies... and I think progressives should have a more plentiful presence on Facebook!

[Mme. Defarge]

67. Bien dit mon brave!

I have been on the fence about leaving FB altogether and am, for now, persuaded by your reasoning. Merci!

[MineralMan]

79. Merci!

Vous êtes trop gentil.

[danclinger1000]

68. I never understood the allure of posting to Facebook.

I told family and friends who wanted me to use the platform that posting private matters for all the world to see, critique, and misquote (maliciously or otherwise) did not appeal to me in the least. I see it as a lazy way to communicate and recognize that it is ripe for abuse. No thanks! Those people who matter to me have my home address, phone number, and email address. That is enough. IMO, profiles and posts to FB, Instagram, Twitter and the like are about as accurate as profiles found on dating apps. Just sayin’.

[MineralMan]

80. You realize that you can restrict who sees your posts to

just those you have accepted as friends, right? Nobody else can see them. That's how my Facebook page is set up. Friends only.

[LeftInTX]

73. I post some political stuff on Facebook...not too heavy, unless I'm in a closed group

Last edited Thu Oct 31, 2019, 02:10 PM - Edit history (1)

where we can post more left wing.

If I see a funny Trump meme, I may post it, but this is something that Jimmy Kimmel would post. (Satire which even Trump supporters won't be offended over)

I also have my own page for my precinct. I'm also Facebook friends with quite a few local Democratic politicians. They are always posting events etc. About the main place I encounter right wingers are in the Armenian Genocide Facebook Group. (Right winged Armenians) I find it depressing, but I think it's the worst area for me because this my ethnicity. I never respond to them or anything.

If I wanna see right wingers I could go to Ted Cruz's page, but I don't bother.

ETA: Although I do post some political stuff and do some of it publicly (especially there is an election) and have my own Democratic Precinct Facebook page, I have not had any RW trolls bother me. I think I have deleted a few replies, but it hasn't been from Republicans, it's been from other Democrats.

[bitterross]

74. I do what you do. Plus, don't take the surveys/play the games.

I do the same thing you do. I hope I'm more of a resource taker from them than anything else.

When those games or surveys appear, I do not play them. They are clearly there to mine for information.

I try to use the resources of Facebook and deprive them of any useful/profitable information about me.

[LeftInTX]

98. Yes avoid the surveys and games

Also avoid those stupid clickbait ads.

"What does the Brady Bunch Like Today". (Mainly because those sites make you click and click and you've wasted an hour)

[sdfernando]

75. Well of course you can keep Facebook if you want.

I was never a big user and I don't want to spend time using tools to stop things I don't want to see. I spend a good deal of my day working with/on computers in a technical support capacity and I don't want to do it on my off hours (which isn't a lot). For me it was all about the security of my personal data which Facebook monetized and sold without anyone's permission really. Thats my whole beef with them...so, yeah, I did leave the platform and deleted my account. Which, by the way, is not intuitive or easy for the layman to do.

For the most part I think social media is bad for people and ironically socially isolating.

You are welcome to continue using Facebook, no one can tell you otherwise...so have at it. Me? I'm done with all of them.

[Triloon]

81. These are the same rationalizations all FB addicts use...

But all these rationalizations can be boiled down to one phrase that you have used several times here -
"I don't care."
But that's obvious. If you cared you would have dumped FB long ago. So what is the point of all this verbiage?
Justifying your decisions? Well, hell -
I don't care.

[MineralMan]

82. "What is the point of all this verbiage?"

Here's the thing: This is DU. Verbiage is what DU is about. DU members post here as they please.

Questioning why a DUer posted something is like asking why a bird sings. That's what we do here. We post, reply, and discuss things.

I explained quite clearly why I use Facebook. It's very simple. Others have told me I shouldn't use Facebook. So, I'm explaining that if they don't use Facebook, that's fine. It doesn't matter to me. I don't care. I have reasons for using it, which I explained.

Perhaps you are a person of few words. I am not. You are not required to read my posts, of course. If you do, though, I suggest you read them in their entirety to see if I posted my reasons for doing something. You seem to have missed that in my original post.

Ta Ta for Now.

[hlthe2b]

83. +1

[GoCubsGo]

85. Same. I use it as it was originally intended.

It's how I keep up with friends and family, my favorite sports teams, and Lil Bub and various other Internet cats. I don't provide them with any more information than I have to. And, like you, I don't hesitate to report trolls, bots, etc.

I also use the tools provided by YouTube when shit like Fox News and other right wing cult trash shows up under their recommendations. They're actually pretty good at listening to their users in that regard, surprisingly.

[FrankBooth]

86. Resepctfully disagree

They care very much whether you use their shitty platform (or not.) You may be able to spend hours cutting all the insidious bullshit out of your feed, but they are still tracking your every move and selling it to advertisers. Staying on the platform regardless of what you cull keeps them in business, and inoculates them against doing the right thing, which they will NEVER willingly do until people stop using them. They suck and are bad for America and the world in general.

[Thekaspervote]

89. Thank you!!

[MineralMan]

91. OK. They're selling data about what I do to advertisers.

But, I never even look at FB ads, much less click on them. So, the money they get helps keep the site going so I don't have to pay to use it. I'm OK with that. Ads don't affect me on Facebook.

DU does the same thing. It allows ads to appear on the site to anyone who doesn't contribute to the site. That helps pay to keep DU online. Apparently, DUers who don't get a star don't care that ads appear, or they'd contribute a little bit to make them go away.

Over-the-air broadcast TV and radio operates the same way. It sells ads to cover costs and generate profits. People watch or listen. Apparently, enough of them patronize the advertisers to keep the ads coming. It's a standard operating model. Broadcasters present programming that attracts certain demographic groups and then they present those demographic groups to prospective advertisers.

Magazines do something very similar. They publish articles that attract a demographic group so they can sell ads, which pay for the magazine's operation and make a profit. Subscription fees don't even come close. Newspapers operate on the same model.

Internet websites, like Facebook, do similar things. They're better at discovering the interests of their users, though, since they can track user behavior. Every search you make on Google provides information about your interests. So, Google can put ads on its site and sell ads to others through the AdSense program or other programs. Other websites can make money by letting Google put targeted ads on those websites. That's how DU does it.

Every company that needs to attract people's eyes, but that doesn't sell anything directly to its users has to generate income in other ways. Selling advertising is one of those ways. Google and Facebook, along with many others, tracks what its users do, where they go, what they search for, etc. That way, they can sell targeted groups to advertisers. How else would they generate revenues?

People won't pay to use a search engine or a chat platform. They will barely pay to use a discussion forum. DU is a good example. Some people, like me, contribute annually, but my contribution doesn't go very far. DU is relatively cheap to operate, really, but takes time from its owners, who would like to make something for their time. To cover the gap, DU has monetized the site with ads, showing them only to those who don't contribute. DU has a demographic to attract advertisers. Not a great demographic, but a demographic nevertheless.

So, what is the difference between Facebook and all those other entities that sell advertising to make a profit? Nothing, really.

Amazon has a different model. It sells stuff. Directly or indirectly. So, it advertises the stuff on its site. It doesn't need outside advertising, because it has stuff to sell, along with a huge web hosting and cloud presence.

Hosting websites costs money. Hosting huge websites costs lots of money. It's a business.

[FrankBooth]

95. They sell you to 3rd parties

And they don't care what the third parties do with your data. 2016 did not happen in a vacuum. That other guys do it, is absolutely true -- but it is not a valid excuse for me, just a form of whataboutism. The crap Facebook has pulled is inexcusable IMO, and continuing to BE their product is a choice I choose not to make. And they've shown absolutely zero interest changing their ways. The only small concessions they've ever made toward atoning for 2016, or fixing their privacy issues was in response to public outcry, and threat of government intervention. Zuckerberg is an elitist a-hole who thinks he's smarter than everyone else, and maybe he is. But he uses PR to smooth over his rough edges instead of actually implementing real change. Maybe real change is too expensive, but that's not my problem. Not changing is too expensive to our society. No users, no Facebook...no Facebook, no President Donald Trump, it's as simple as that.

[The_jackalope]

87. Not boycotting, but I did sign off.

I have no axe to grind with FB, so I don't call what I did a boycott. The platform simply wasn't useful to me any more.

I joined FB 15 years ago. I initially used it as a self-publishing channel for my essays about the imminent collapse of the climate, the biosphere, society, and human civilization. I explored the reasons I think imminent collapse is likely, and tracked the acceleration of the global decline.

Late In 2015 I shifted to a geopolitical focus, concentrating on the threat posed to Western societies (including but not limited to the USA) by the Russian team of Gennady Gerasimov, Aleksandr Dugin, Vladisav Surkov and Vladimir Putin.

I shifted focus because I saw the Russian efforts as a more immediate threat to global stability than the more powerful but longer-term damage to the planet's biosphere. The ongoing biophysical damage is a non-political threat caused by the relentless growth of human numbers and activity levels, but the sociocultural damage inflicted by the Russians (through the election of Trump) has had a dramatic effect on our daily lives.

But in the end, neither the biophysical nor the geopolitical focus was of any consequence. The biosphere is still disintegrating, the Russians' short-term goals have been accomplished, and it makes no difference if anyone knows what a clathrate is, or what Aleksander Dugin believes. So even with 2000 FB "friends", I signed off abruptly a couple of months ago. I dealt with the addiction by going cold turkey, and I see no point in shoving Zuckerberg's needle back into my arm. I have a real life to lead.

[Perseus]

90. You make a strong point

[Squinch]

92. Mark Zuckerberg and Cambridge Analytica thank you kindly for your patronage.

[MineralMan]

93. They make zero money from me.

So, I doubt I'm on their minds at all. I do not count in their calculations, and they know that, too.

[Squinch]

100. Yes. It's really a charitable organization, and they let you play because you're a nice guy.

They get nothing back for it.

[MineralMan]

101. I use the system they provide,

but I do nothing that generates revenue for them. That's easy. Try it.

[Thekaspervote]

103. Every time you click on ANYTHING on FB it generates advertising revenue.. don't kid yourself

Not to mention selling your data... yes selling it

Hold on a second, user data? That's right. In a series of scandals dating back to March 2018, Facebook has compromised user data, privacy, and security by granting multinational companies access to the personal information of its users. Most recently, The New York Times reported that Facebook gave several multinational companies the ability to access users' contact information, private messages, and friend lists. The companies include: Netflix (NFLX) and Spotify, which had access to users' private messages; Altaba (formerly Yahoo!) (AABA), which had access to the content published by a user's friends; Amazon (AMZN), which had access to the names and contact information of a users' friends; and Microsoft (MSFT), whose Bing search engine had access to the names on virtually every Facebook user's friends list. The exchanges took place as recently as last summer, which contradicts prior statements made by Facebook that the company had stopped selling access to user data years ago.

More at the link
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/120114/how-does-facebook-fb-make-money.asp


Facebook's most valuable users are in the U.S. and Canada, generating $26.76 in average revenue per user (ARPU) in the fourth-quarter of 2017, $26.26 of that from advertising. For all of 2017, the average user in the U.S. and Canada generated $84.41 in ARPU. $81.92 of that came from advertising, making the region Facebook's most valuable on a revenue basis.

[Squinch]

107. This, of course, is true, and it has been described elsewhere in this thread, but I don't think

the FB addicts can be convinced.

Interesting, isn't it?

[Garrett78]

94. Boycotts have often been effective, but the numbers must be substantial.

Such as when advertisers for certain TV programs are boycotted. Or the famous bus boycott.

And obviously there are many ways to communicate without using Facebook. To each their own.

[NCLefty]

96. I couldn't even get them to remove the NZ shooter's hate manifesto. I reported it every way possible

Facebook SUCKS. It's a giant heaping pile of garbage and there's no way to ever root out all the bots, hate, and disinformation.

[Thekaspervote]

104. Thank you!! A voice of sanity

[ck4829]

99. We clearly need an Anti-Facebook

Bookonfoot.com

Where one can show their connections with enemies and rivals, where there are fake celebrities who use the site (Like the Third Interdimensional King of Issuwa) who will connect with people, and where one can freely list fictional and parody things as jobs and hobbies (Like 'amateur brain surgeon' as listed occupation or 'bug eating contest champion'), and contrast it with real photos of members doing mundane things... and if one wants they can chat and talk to people genuinely.

Can you imagine the third party data collection on it?

[Farmer-Rick]

102. I don't understand why anyone needs Facebook at all.

Email and text message works just fine to keep in touch with people I care about. If I really want to get intimate, I call or visit.

I had a very active organic farm and I set up my own web site. I didn't need Facebook for that either.

I found it really annoying that Facebook felt it had to e-mail me every Fing time someone wanted to be friends, or someone I friended added new comments or someone posted a comment or Facebook changed a system. Who the F were they to think they could e-mail me with all their crap. I marked them as spam and have lived quietly without excess e-mails from some money hungry billionaire kid.

Life is so much better without Facebook. There are a 5 other things that can do the exact same thing Facebook does for you. No one really needs them. They are a waste of time.

[Thekaspervote]

105. You nailed it! I would add to your list FaceTime

[NurseJackie]

108. I enjoy Facebook and my browser's "Ad Block" add-on...

I enjoy Facebook and my browser's "Ad Block" add-on seems to work at blocking a lot of the ads.

I'm like you with the strict privacy settings (only, I didn't do it myself, a loved-one did it for me.)

And... I don't LIVE on facebook either. As you noted, it's a convenient and fun way to keep in touch with family and friends, and to participate in group chats/conversations, sharing fun times, and sad times as well.

[Heartstrings]

109. I have reconnected with many people from my past....

Some detrimental and I wish I had never given them a second thought and let them into my life again....so not worthy of the attention and time I gave them....

Most are worth the memories though.....and are keepers!