Why do they call it "Quid Pro Quo," when Trump was straight out blackmailing Ukraine?

[TheBlackAdder]

.

Quid pro quo is akin to you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. We'll negotiate a trade.


Trump flat out held back military aid until he got what he wanted.


This was blackmail folks. Not quid pro quo!

.

[Zoonart]

1. Because "Quid Pro You" is a nebulous term and it

allows the media to shade the meaning and soften the blow, thus enabling both-siderism.
"This is how deals get made... one hand washes the other.. .blah blah."

[Fritz67]

27. Exactly

All the fancy Latin words go over the heads of Trump voters, so they don't realize what they're really defending.

[shintias]

60. The defense comes after the mistake, not before it

Merriam Webster

Anyone going on about it having Latin origins obviously has missed that English itself is full of words and phrases that have origins in a plethora of languages, Latin included.

Merriam Webster



One can rip apart every defense made but still have people lining up to insist that a mistake was never made to begin with... this is typical of fanaticism which the American political system has become. It's obvious that when the phrase initiated it wasn't realized that Quid Pro Quo is a very neutral phrase, probably because the originator never actually bothered to look it up. The problem is that once caught on, the fanatic cannot turn around and say "we made a mistake, let's halt this momentum."

Why not use Extortion, Blackmail, or Racket? It isn't because they're the wrong words, it's because the attempt to sound more intelligent than you really are leads one to use words / phrases that they DON'T know the meanings of very well. The more foreign and less common the word/phrase the more "intelligent" you are for using it.

Hence the problem. To sound smart and witty people will pull out words that they either do not know how to pronounce (see Faux) or phrases they don't grasp the meaning of (see Quid pro quo). Once the retort becomes popular and it is shown that it makes them sound the fool for using it, the defense is created rather than admitting the mistake. It's the problem with fanaticism, the inability to recognize that a mistake has been made and the extreme willingness to come to the defense of a mistake rather than admit one has been made.

[gopiscrap]

65. welcome to DU

[soldierant]

50. Or possibly because "quid pro quo" is a phrase related to bribery.

Sure, extortion, blackmail, and shakedown are more accurate. But even extortion does involve a quid pro quo - it is a coercive quid pro quo, but it is one. Keeping what you have is a thing of value.

And blackmail, extortion, and shakedown are not listed specifically as impeachable offenses in the Constitution.

Bribery is.

We don't have to prove to obtuse Republicans that bribery is a high crime and/or misdemeanor. The Constitution already has it covered.

[Mike 03]

2. Agree totally. I'm sick of that phrase...

It's blackmail, extortion, bribery.

[Left-over]

14. I agree. Call it what it is..a shakedown. Plain and simple.

[SWBTATTReg]

43. I agree w/ you. I like the word 'blackmail' or 'extortion' ... call it what it stands for...

we are not in a f**king courtroom now, so call it blackmail or extortion...

[oasis]

3. Both "backmail"and "shakedown" work for me. nt

[DENVERPOPS]

46. His mafia actions

make it worthy of the term "shake down" or extortion.......

[Pacifist Patriot]

4. I wish they'd use "extortion." Much more accurate than quid pro quo.

[NotASurfer]

5. Extortion has a nice ring to it

Immediately makes me think of mobsters on their way to Sing-Sing

[kag]

32. And it fits better.

"Do what I want, or I'll make you suffer." That's extortion.

[kentuck]

6. What is the difference between "blackmail" and "extortion"?

Do both threaten harm?

[Nancy Waterman]

8. Extortion it is

Blackmail is "I know something bad about you (photos, video, gossip)and will reveal it if you don't do what I want."

Extortion is " I will grievously hurt you if you don't do what I want". (E.G burn down your business if you don't give me money every month; withhold weapons needed in a war if you don't make up dirt on my opponent and announce an investigation) etc.).

I think the Ukraine story is about extortion, although Trump does essentially everything with bribes, threats, and extortion. That has always been his MO. The only surprise about this story is that anyone is surprised.

[Texin]

24. Exactly right. Extortion relies on a quid pro quo, i.e. an exchange of something.

In the case of Ukraine, the issue is a much greater and more grievous illegality because the Ukraine funds he was holding over Zelensky's head were appropriated by Congress and paid for by the U.S. taxpayers. tRump had no personal monetary skin in the game, but Ukraine and the U.S. relied on those funds for the safety and security of that country and in aid of U.S. security because of Putin's threat(s).

[dchill]

33. Trump is the one being blackmailed.

Has long been.

[Disaffected]

44. Correct

It is important to use precise language - confusion is the otherwise result.

[calimary]

45. Yep. That's his thing. We're just seeing how he runs his business

in Manhattan.

It’s always worked before, to get him his way, in that insular little microcosm in NYC. When nobody was that interested in looking deeper, or probing irregularities. And he was just this silly rich guy who bloviated a lot, and yucked it up with Howard Stern. A personality. An entertainment. Harmless.

But THIS is DIFFERENT. There’s a WORLD - no, a freakin’ GALAXY of difference.

[aikoaiko]

7. What you described is not blackmail.

To blackmail, you have to threaten to reveal or expose something.

Extortion is a better word that sends the message that the quid pro quo was illegal.

Most quid pro quo is not illegal

[luvtheGWN]

9. Agreed. Extortion is the word.

Sure wish the Democrats would start using it. In fact, I wish they'd started using it right from the start.

[TheBlackAdder]

18. Correct. Thanks!

[Soph0571]

19. This

[GoCubsGo]

20. Thank you!

It was extortion, not blackmail.

[Major Nikon]

30. Quite often it is illegal

One type of sexual harassment is called quid pro quo. It refers to an employer offering advancement or withholding retribution to an employee in return for sexual favors. That too could be called extortion in the literal sense, but in the legal sense it is not.

[aikoaiko]

34. My point is that we engage in exchanges many times a day which are not illegal.

Quid pro quo is a neutral term, but the context and specifics of the exchange can make it illegal.

[Major Nikon]

37. We must remember impeachment isn't a criminal process, it's a political one

The act in question arguably may or may not be illegal, but it's most definitely impeachable exactly because of the way the framers of the Constitution defined impeachable offenses. If the democrats allege "extortion", then they must(or at least ethically should) make a legal argument that is tangential to whether or not impeachable offenses were committed. By using "quid pro quo" they do not have to do so.

Compare this to the Clinton impeachment. The GOP used the terms "perjury" and "obstruction of justice" both of which refer to illegal behavior. Clinton was never so much as criminally indicted for either because the legal hurdles of those things were never met. It wasn't for lack of trying on Starr's part. History will show what the GOP did was both wrong and unethical.

[Six117]

10. Scump still broke the law. Quid pro whatever or not.

I don't get why that's not "the thing" at this point. Scump literally broke federal election law, in letter, in spirit -and in public multiple times. In addition to violating the oath of office. Boggles my mind that we bother getting tangled up in the bs.

LOCK HIM UP

[JudyM]

11. K&R for using the more precise term to make the crime more clear to the public.

[Scarsdale]

12. Some joker in this administration

likes the way tRump's anus-shaped mouth moves when he says "Quid quo pro". I can just see a group of them laughing in a back room, playing the tape over and over. He is SUCH a joke. Surrounded by incompetent, crooked traitors to this country.

[WhiteTara]

13. This is straight up extortion. You do this or else

Blackmail is when you say If you don't do what I want, I'm going to tell the world nasty things about you. That's what Turkey did about Kushner/Kashoggi and he let them kill the Kurdish people so we wouldn't find out when it happened. But of course, the truth will always come out. Now it's worse. That's a crime against humanity.

[DENVERPOPS]

47. The U.N. and Hague

have all the evidence they need to begin to prosecute Assad and his gov't for their use of chemical weapons on their own civilians. They have been testing and documenting his use on citizens for over a year.........

[CapnSteve]

15. I prefer High Crime...

[Perseus]

16. Quid Pro Quo - A comment from a lawyer

In response to reports that President Donald Trump repeatedly pressured Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to investigate Hunter Biden, the President and his defenders have been quick to point out that there was never a mention of any kind of "quid pro quo" bribery deal. According to Trump and his personal attorney Rudy Giuliani, despite reportedly urging Zelensky to initiate the inquiry eight times in one conversation, the lack an explicit tit-for-tat proposition rendered the entire interaction innocuous.

"No quid pro quo – there was nothing," Trump told reporters on the South Lawn of the White House Sunday morning, adding, "It was a perfect conversation."

Giuliani on Saturday provided a similar line of defense.

"Whistleblower story, like [Brett] Kavanaugh story, is blowing up. Now no mention of money or quid pro quo. So appropriate conduct. Now we must look at Biden Family pattern of corruption of selling his public offices for 5 decades. Pattern of corruption enabled by Swamp," he tweeted.

But several legal experts have noted that as President, Trump doesn’t need to expressly engage in an unlawful scheme to bribe or extort the head of a foreign government for such conduct to be an abuse of presidential power.

Former federal prosecutor Renato Mariotti on Sunday wrote that the allegations against Trump are so egregious they transcend the thresholds of standard criminal statutes.

"If what Trump is accused of doing is true, it is a kind of corrupt conduct that the criminal system is not equipped to handle," he wrote in an op-ed for Politico.

"What Trump is alleged to have done is not a garden variety crime; it’s worse. It involved misusing $250 million in aid appropriated by Congress for his benefit—the kind of gross misconduct that easily clears the bar of high crimes and misdemeanors set by the Constitution when impeaching a president. Which means the best way to hold Trump accountable for that misconduct isn’t a criminal trial; it’s for Congress to impeach him." -- Renato Mariotti

[link:https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/why-no-quid-pro-quo-is-not-a-defense-against-trump-ukraine-allegations/|

[DENVERPOPS]

48. Always makes me laugh

Exactly what the fuck is a "beautiful" or "perfect" conversation...........What kind of un-educated asshole would use those adjectives to describe a conversation.........

[uponit7771]

17. K&R, Old tired ass'd M$M group think Stenography ... they hear something and repeat it

[pangaia]

28. Boy THAT says it right there..

I keep posting that whole concept AND "EXTORTION" every chance I get...

[albacore]

21. How is it not bribery, too?

And bribery is right in the impeachment section of the Constitution.

[Kablooie]

22. No. It was extortion.

Blackmail is when you threaten to release embarrassing information if you don't get what you want.

Extortion is threatening to hurt someone if you don't get it.

Trump, by holding back the money was threatening to hurt Ukraine.

Extortion. A Mafia tactic.

[gordianot]

23. They also excuse the Orange Dictator as transactional.

His transactions are extortion and he usually ends up either trying to blackmail others or being a mark for blackmail himself. He is a crook, his Father built his buisness on Governmental fraud. Donald Trump is a failed buisness man, Russian agent, is mentally ill and is a rapist.

[Pepsidog]

25. In Trump's world it's called kneecapping.

[pangaia]

26. I also think extortion... and bribery

"the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats.
"he used bribery and extortion to build himself a huge, art-stuffed mansion"

[Bradical79]

29. You just handed Trump his new defence...

New legal strategy: "No quid pro quo ever occured because it was blackmail! Completely different! FAKE NEWS! WITCHUNT! MAGA!"

[Fiendish Thingy]

35. It wasn't blackmail, it was extortion, which is a form of bribery

Extortion is sort of coerced bribery, and was considered bribery when the Constitution was written.

Blackmail is "if you don't (give me money), then I'll reveal embarrassing info on you)"

Extortion is "if you don't (give me money, investigate Bidens), then I'll do something harmful to you"

In Trump's case, it was sort of a mutual exchange of bribes "you give me what I want, I'll give you what you want", with the withholding of aid being the coercive factor.

[Bayard]

36. I think people just like saying, Quid Pro Quo.

This was extortion, plain and simple.

[happybird]

41. +1

[iluvtennis]

38. Joyce Vance says what trump did can be charged as bribery on articles of impeachment

@JoyceWhiteVance
Trump’s shift from “no quid pro quo” to “there was nothing wrong with my quid pro quo” is the kind of thing we’ve seen him get away with before. But, saying there was a quid pro quo is an admission there was attempted bribery. Bribery is a constitutional ground for impeachment.

Link to tweet

[Nitram]

39. Actually it was extortion. But since it could also be termed bribery.

Extortion because aid was held up to force Ukraine to investigate Biden and the 2016 DNC hack conspiracy theory. Bribery because a large amount of military aid was being offered contingent on the investigations. Whatever.

[relayerbob]

40. Actually, it's extortion

But yeah. The quid pro quo thing is something Trump followers don't understand, so they use those words. It's Latin for "I am not a crook". ha

[hibbing]

42. Same reason his lies are rarely called lies n/t

[JGug1]

49. Quid pro Quo Vs Blackmailing

Actually, while "blackmailing" is much closer to accurate than "quid pro quo," neither is really correct. What trump did is called extortion and yup, it is quite illegal.

[harumph]

51. no, it was extortion - learn the difference.

extortion - otherwise know as a "shakedown."

[onecaliberal]

52. It was extortion, do this or else:

[UCmeNdc]

53. It was out and out extortion,

Which is against the law!

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

54. Quid pro nihilo is more Trump's style

Give me what I ask for, and I guarantee I will renege on whatever promise I made.

[live love laugh]

55. Quid pro quo is the Republiclown frame much like collusion

I think “we” have to stop carrying Republiclowns’ water by promoting their dumb-down tactics.

[drmeow]

56. I hear quid pro quo

And I think sexual harassment which is followed by there does have to be quid pro quo for it to be a crime. So, at least for me, the minute he says quid pro quo I think it's still a crime and it makes him sound guilty.

I also call it extortion and bribery.

[mgardener]

57. Extortion. Ukraine needed the money

Extortion vs. blackmail
With extortion, a person makes a threat, often physical or destructive, to obtain something or to force someone to do something. ... With blackmail, a person threatens to reveal embarrassing or damaging information if a demand is not met. That demand can be for money or something else of value.Feb 8, 2019

[Vinca]

58. It's like calling his lies "falsehoods" or "misstatements" for the first 2 years.

Personally, I prefer extortion over blackmail. It's a crime no matter how long it took Trump to learn a Latin phrase.

[Catch2.2]

59. Agree 100%...

The Dems need to do better on messaging. For example, they need to say that "Trump tried to get Ukraine to investigate an American Citizen who happened to be a political rival", instead of "Trump tried to get Ukraine to investigate Biden."

[joet67]

61. I call it Prid Amateur Quo. 😂

[Poiuyt]

62. Quid Pro Quo, Bribery, And The Constitution

Ali Velshi had a nice segment on today where he described the events as bribery:

[moondust]

63. I'd call it extortion.

I, too, think of "quid pro quo" as both sides being willing participants. In this case Dump was trying to FORCE a Ukraine that was desperate for aid into a trade they hadn't agreed to and no doubt didn't want to make because they knew it was about tipping the scales in domestic U.S. politics. Doing so could jeopardize any future U.S. aid and cooperation and potentially bring untold trouble upon themselves.

[NCLefty]

64. I've heard Extortion, Bribery, Shake-down, Quid pro quo... I'm not sure when we will find out. :D

I like to call it Election Meddling because it is, and because he did it in 2016. That may be the only way a Trump can ever get elected.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

66. evil guy threatening your baby with torch. man with water says, do me a favor.

Ukraine is facing an existential threat. The U.S. allocated funds to help combat that threat. Trump withheld those funds, increasing the threat to the Ukraine, in order to help himself with covert propaganda.



An evil guy threatens to burn your baby and has the torch already lit.

People far away send water.

Another evil guy keeps the hose kinked and demands you do him a favor before he releases the water he doesn't own.