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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCharles P. Pierce: The Anonymous White House Book-Writer Can Anonymously Bite Me
Not to put too fine a point on it, but Anonymous can bite me. I have no intention of shelling out a dime to read about how someone almost ran into the burning house to save the baby, or about how someone almost gave up their seat in the lifeboat when the great ship went down, or about how someone almost dove into a freezing river to save a busload of nuns, or, for that matter, about how someone almost decided not to be a part of the most monstrous executive administration since the (un)death of Vlad The Impaler. I am not interested in someone's heartfelt account of their near-collision with actual integrity. I decline to be fascinated by the tale of how someone nearly ran into courage on the street but had to catch a bus instead. Like I said, Anonymous can anonymously bite me.
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a29740312/anonymous-white-house-book/
mcar
(42,311 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)I wont buy that book either.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)Grrr. Trying to avoid listening to excerpts. I hear ya...but I just figure big picture will it hurt trump? And answer yes.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Lol, I do.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)It's like a speeding train and nothing will stop it. Until it gets to the end and there's a giant crash. Of course, you know me, broken record...we will never know what would have happened if we had acted sooner. Interesting that they were all talking 25th amendment when he fired Comey...was probably time to strike then. They probably were all holding their breath...and then "phew...not even a simple Censure...carry on!"
cwydro
(51,308 posts)But Ive given up on books, especially those by anonymous.
I hear ya through. I do. This whole thing is so exhausting.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,109 posts)RUMP'S agenda!
The only agenda anyone knew he had when YOU joined was he wanted to HARM immigrants and say Barack Obama wasnt born here, etc.
so FUCK YOU and the 3 legged dead horse you rode in on
Whiskeytide
(4,461 posts)... enough carrying the substantial Pierce in, not to mention being three legged and dead.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,109 posts)you're right
when you're right you're right
colorado_ufo
(5,734 posts)The excerpts that Rachel read on her show last night just sounded like a tossup between gossip and whining.
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)Anonymous and the like are only upset that Trump makes it so hard to bring about their vision.
Response to Generic Other (Original post)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)I am so not interested in people who pretend to be heroes by whispering "truth" from their safe hiding place while other people get their butts kicked in public.
No.
Until you're ready to reveal yourself OR avail yourself of whistleblower protection, please go away.
gab13by13
(21,334 posts)It's easy to sit back and knock someone. It's a pretty darn hard decision, IMO, to open yourself up to death threats and constant harassment. The Ukraine whistleblower didn't get very much protection. For me, I will accept what he or she has done and respect the decision to remain anonymous. Put yourself in his/her shoes, crawl into his/her skin before criticizing. Just my opinion.
BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)If they've done nothing to stop Trump's crimes, they're an accessory. At best.
calimary
(81,240 posts)Gotta say, I'm rather intrigued to read the book. But I hesitate for a different reason.
I learned during Watergate - "don't buy books by crooks." All the jailed Watergaters were either finding Jesus in prison or assuaging their guilty consciences writing books - also while in prison, many of them hitting the lecture circuit, and/or booked as speakers at book clubs across America upon their release. Which, of course, would include some additional time spent in hiding while they got themselves physically restyled or otherwise sufficiently rehabilitated in the public mind, before venturing back out to make the rounds of the talk shows. Besides, by the time most of 'em were released from prison, enough time had gone by that most people either forgot or no longer cared.
But I'm held back by the recognition that buying the book would put money in some republi-CON's pockets, and I'm pretty much loathe to do that.
mahina
(17,652 posts)dchill
(38,489 posts)StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)And I've been in similar shoes in a high-level government position when I had to make some difficult choices when I saw things I found troubling. Not as drastic as this, but enough to understand the precarious choice this person is facing. And, based on that experience - as well as personal knowledge about even more painful choices people I know had to make - I have little patience for people who choose the easiest course: rather than deal with the consequences of leaving and speaking out, they stay, continuing to reap all of the benefits that come with the position, but "speak out" from their positions of comfort and anonymity - while trying to wrap themselves in a cloak of righteousness because they anonymously complain about what's happening around them.
And while I know it's not easy to open themselves up to death threats and other harassment, there are plenty of people who are doing just that AND it's likely that Anonymous has been complicit in creating and perpetuating the toxic environment they're now supposedly hiding from.
Sorry. I'm not impressed
Pacifist Patriot
(24,653 posts)I agree with you.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)Sarcasm
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)with, they are in the wrong place.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)sanctimony, know-it-all-ness, and disruption of free flow of ideas!
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)whathehell
(29,067 posts)It's great to insist on self-disclosure, but doing so would result in loss of access, thus defeating the person's stated purpose.
I doubt the person is "trying to be a hero" since you can't claim that staus minus an identity.
PatSeg
(47,427 posts)I certainly need to know more before I pass judgment on this person. On one hand, it would seem he/she should have come forward openly much sooner, but on the other hand, the person is a witness to most of what has happened in the White House. That could be of great value in the upcoming months.
If Anonymous had spoken out publicly early in the administration and revealed who they were, they may have just been ridiculed and fired by Trump. It probably would have been part of a brief news cycle, with a handful of interviews and possibly a book deal. Then as with so much in this administration, he/she along with the shocking revelations would be forgotten. It is hard to sustain the shock value of anything the man does or says, as he just keeps coming up with new and outrageous stunts.
We'll see. Anonymous could be Trump's Deep Throat or could just be an opportunist. As I said, I need to know more before I can judge.
Zoonart
(11,862 posts)Patriots don't hide in the shadows. They step into the light.
soldierant
(6,857 posts)about Mark Felt?
whathehell
(29,067 posts)I thought the same.
soldierant
(6,857 posts)Right now I am not judging anyone who is doing something, even if I suspect it's too little. We need every little bit we can get. This is more dangerous than Nixon/Watergate, and Nixon/Watergate was more dangerous than most people realize.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Last edited Fri Nov 8, 2019, 10:25 PM - Edit history (4)
He wasn't a Nixon political appointee who believed in the things he was doing but thought the fact that he seemed to be mentally ill was compromising his ability to carry out his agenda. He didn't write a book as "Anonymous." He was a career official who saw the president and his henchmen engaging in specific illegal acts and, knowing that the law enforcement agency he worked for was being compromised, made himself known to two investigative journalists (three, if you count Ben Bradlee) who were digging into the scandal and he helped and guided them in uncovering the truth by providing them very specific leads and information. Watergate would never have been exposed had it not been for Felt.
Now, if it turns out that Anonymous has been working closely with Robert Mueller or the House committees or the US Attorney or with any journalists who are actually exposing specific acts of wrongdoing - not just feeding juicy information like "Trump yells and screams in meetings and we all think he's crazy but won't say it out loud"- I may change my mind. But right now, I'm not impressed.
Mark Felt and Anonymous are nothing alike.
gibraltar72
(7,503 posts)Raster
(20,998 posts)"I am almost a patriot..."
whathehell
(29,067 posts)which would completely defeat their stated purpose.
ffr
(22,669 posts)Whomever they are, they are a profiteer off our nation's collective suffering.
That is not what patriots do.
Response to Generic Other (Original post)
geralmar This message was self-deleted by its author.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)listening to the attempts to rationalize enabling what no person of good character would.
Like his posturing that Charlottesville was a break point when he, and so many others in "the resistance," really wanted to resign but nobly hung in?
Not, extremely revealingly, the ongoing, incredibly evil policy of dreadful cruelty aimed at mostly brown children, many far too small even to realize their parents still exist, somewhere.
whathehell
(29,067 posts)but sanctimony aside, I'm guessing sales will be brisk.
N_E_1 for Tennis
(9,722 posts)Profiles in Cowardice.
EOM
Perseus
(4,341 posts)Not sure why so much hate for the anonymous person, he/she is telling a story from the inside, things that many of us already knew or could guess was happening, but now it is recorded for the World to see.
When this nightmare is over he/she may come out and give more details, name names, we will find out who was fully complicit, who helped derail the mad man's actions.
I don't understand the negative reaction to this book, I applaud it, it does take guts to do what this person has done.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Last edited Fri Nov 8, 2019, 08:47 PM - Edit history (1)
Our nation and likely the world is at grave risk. The author saw the danger daily, yet can't step forward and let Americans know what he witnessed and put a face to that story. You better bet that if the co-author is Rence Priebus, John Kelly, or another former high official that dealt with Trump several times per day, every day, that putting his face behind this account would most likely end the Trump presidency and go a long way toward righting the country.
N_E_1 for Tennis
(9,722 posts)Thx.
negromiconomics
(20 posts)Those of us who are Democrats are admittedly tired of people, officials, and politicians who take our votes and then turn around and reach across the aisle, do the pragmatic thing and not the right thing, and make nice no matter what the other side does. But BECAUSE that is what Democrats DO!!! we can't expect to see people walking the plank when all they see before the blindfold goes on are Democrats waiting expectantly for a miracle to occur that will make good things happen. Elections have consequences... 1980, 1984, 1988, 1994, 2000, 2004, 2010, 2014!!! That's a lot of time when this party had access to power and was unable to convince it's coalition to get out of bed and fill out some dots on a ballot! The Republicans don't have this problem. So if you are going to attempt to remove their hold on power you'd better be CLOSE and you'd better not MISS! I don't care how craven this person may seem to be. It could be Banning, Pence, Kelly Ann.. could be JAVANKA! If they've got the goods and they drop it and Schiff drives the silver stake in then that's good! I don't need to see some silver haired guy admit it's him and then do the rounds on MSNBC with Rachel shaking his hand and saying "well done, sir" before he disappears into Guantanamo!!!
NCjack
(10,279 posts)write letters to politicians and newspapers, and help get out the vote. While Anonymous and friends are in the White House, with first hand knowledge of Trump's crimes, mistakes, and incompetence. It is Anonymous et. al who should have acted. Today, they should call the House and offer to tell all.
The Mouth
(3,150 posts)give the slightest bit of credence, or a penny, to anyone who chooses to remain anonymous. I don't care the issue or the ideology.
gab13by13
(21,334 posts)sitting safely at home or wherever. This whistleblower may have a family that he/she doesn't want to be constantly threatened.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)They are a Trump political appointee who believes in his agenda but is troubled by some of his behavior and, instead of actually doing something that will result in it being addressed, they have worked with others to try to manage it and, when that failed, whisper about it to the public.
They may not want their family threatened, but chose to continue working for, enabling, associating with and benefiting from their public alignment with the person/people who created the environment that could lead to their family being threatened.
There's nothing brave about that. It's just plain opportunism.
whathehell
(29,067 posts)they lose access and become unable to run the kind of interference tbe person claims to be doing...They may or may not be telling the truth, but his/her behavior is consistent with his stated objectives.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)people could actually assess their credibility and determine whether their claims actually have merit. It might also help people - especially investigators and journalists - gather additional evidence to prove Trump's unfitness.
It makes a difference whether this person is a John Kelley or a Kellyanne Conway, on the one hand, or a special assistant to the President (which, despite its lofty-sounding name, is a fairly junior position in the White House) or a deputy assistant secretary in a cabinet agency, on the other.
But this anonymous shish is for the birds. We have no way of knowing if they're actually "running interference" or just laying low, collecting a paycheck, enjoying their "access," schmoozing it up at the Trump Hotel, lining up their next job (if they haven't already moved on), and are just playing us all for fools.
whathehell
(29,067 posts)He can't DO this without access.to him.. What part of this isn't being understood?
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)when running for president.
Right up front, brazenly, as if it was a virtue to promote such things as persecuting millions who weren't born in the U.S., repealing the ACA and lying that it'd be replaced with a program with much better coverages and much cheaper (completely impossible), destroying many government agencies such as the EPA and VA, and the massive tax-heist transfer of national wealth to a few and tax burden to the many millions being lied to.
AND, of course, what those in his position already knew or very strongly suspected, that Trump was conspiring with Russia against the U.S.
We are our actions, not our declarations of moral purpose or greater understanding than others.
whathehell
(29,067 posts)That said, I'm afraid you really can't know what he "already knew or strongly suspected" about his ties with Russia.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)had already occurred, remember? And a great deal of evidence already gathered not just by the FBI and intelligence services, but by investigative journalists.
But this person is an insider working at a level that allows him to be able to see, or surmise, and able to connect many more dots.
whathehell
(29,067 posts)This person was/ is a Republican and they don't always "see" what we do, or at least in the same light..
The fact that he or she is now "an insider, working at a level that allows him to be able to see, or surmise, and to connect many more dots"
Yes..That's exactly why many think he could be a good source.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Hey, some other things are probably popping to mind about now. Go ahead and add them to the list of Republican crimes this person joined the Trump administration to make happen.
And while you're at it, remember his statement that Trump would have self-destructed very early on without those around him working desperately to keep him in the WH.
Nothing that came after would have happened without people like him. Like the many children who will never see their parents again, including the children who ran away in a strange, foreign country and weren't looked for, even if we get full control. All of them were kidnapped after this person joined and became a two-faced resister against Trump AND against good people trying to stop them.
Yes, there's one face we need but that's because of the other, very bad face. Two-Face is looking ahead to life after Trump and trying to escape the consequences that will destroy the reputations and careers of most others forever.
whathehell
(29,067 posts)That doesn't necessarily mean they're iredeemablly "wicked", at least in my view. You're certainly free to your own opinions, but I don't share them, and feel further discussion on the matter to be fruitless. Having said that, I'll just say 'adieu'.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)You know, we have a bunch of conservative friends here in Georgia, and in other states, and in my view you're blowing off as "seeing things differently" what should never be excused. At least in this conversation.
Over two decades ago now what I didn't understand about how conservatives around me thought made me start reading about personality, and particularly political personality. Understanding differences in thinking and moral orientations in no way requires excusing what is harmful and wrong. I do my best to always keep our neighbors' good sides in mind, and they usually make that extremely easy. I actually love and admire some old friends we never discuss politics with. I know that under good, moral leadership, they and a lot of others, not all by any means, would strongly disapprove, and even be horrified, at the very idea of much the politicians they will vote to keep in power are doing.
But not being in denial on this subject, I don't fool myself that many people can be very good and likable, moral beings, in their personal lives and yet be capable of supporting leaders who promise, and do, great harm to others (and would inevitably to them as well).
"The banality of evil" is in the air these days. It really could happen here, and a lot of people believe what's happening on the right, visible in an increasingly fascistic Republican Party, is likely to get much, much worse if we don't manage to stop it. Resistance can't be in denial and doesn't normalize.
See ya round.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)But we don't know since we have no idea who "they" are or whether "they" are still working for him.
If it turns out that "Anonymous" is Kellyanne Conway, John Kelley or Kirstjen Nielsen, would you still be so quick to defend them?
It's hard enough to take the word of anyone in Trump's orbit - it's really hard to take their word when we don't even know who they are.
whathehell
(29,067 posts)Most testifying in the Impeachment hearings will also be part of "Trump's orbit"...If, for the same reason, they are deemed not credible their testimony AGAINST Trump won't be believed either and he'll stay in office.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)I just said I'm not impressed.
And I don't consider most of the people testifying to be in Trump's "orbit." They're not his political appointees but are career employees who predated him, don't "serve at his pleasure," and aren't part of his cabal.
whathehell
(29,067 posts)starting with your subject line "They SAY that's their objective"
Skepticism and disbelief run throughout your post after that.. There's no mention of being "impressed", one way or another.
Sorry, Starfish, but you can't move the goalposts in the midddle of the game. Adios. .
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)I didn't say I don't believe what they allege in the book. I just don't necessarily believe that their objectives are as pure as they claim.
And if you read my other posts, you will see that I did indeed previously say "I'm not impressed." In fact, I said it twice before.
Not contradictory and not complicated. And the goalposts are still right where they were when the discussion began.
whathehell
(29,067 posts)and have honestly lost interest in this subject .You don't like/trust Anonymous? Fine. You're entitled to your view and I'm entitled to mi e.
entitled to mine. .End of story. Buh bye.
TeamPooka
(24,223 posts)Perseus
(4,341 posts)TeamPooka
(24,223 posts)Skittles
(153,160 posts)IT ISN'T
Auggie
(31,169 posts)Speaking fees, another book, etc.
gab13by13
(21,334 posts)that he/she will donate most of the proceeds of the book to charity.
TeamPooka
(24,223 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Auggie
(31,169 posts)My prediction, for what its worth.
TeamPooka
(24,223 posts)Auggie
(31,169 posts)yardwork
(61,604 posts)Firestorm49
(4,035 posts)TeamPooka
(24,223 posts)thegoose
(3,115 posts)Not interested.
Hulk
(6,699 posts)But I'll just add my name to the list. It must require a human characteristic of cowardice to be part of that Administration.
Dorn
(523 posts)That is what I did with Donna Brazile's book.
Never did understand why Donna Brazile moved so high up in the DNC when every campaign she's managed has been a loser.
She's like the kiss of death for every candidate stupid enough to let her within sniffing distance of a campaign.
Joe Nation
(962 posts)The perfect cover. On the inside but not on the inside.
H2O Man
(73,537 posts)It's Kellyanne's book, with George's help.
DeminPennswoods
(15,286 posts)A few reasons.
First, having George write it gives Kellyanne plausible deniability. And, George has already written a long opinion article arguing Trump's unfitness for office. Why would he need to be anonymous? So he has plausible deniability, too.
Second, how many original Trump staffers are still around and have that kind of access?
Third, the exerpt that talks about Trump calling accomplished women "honey" and "sweetie". This is something a woman would notice moreso than men who probably do this and never think a thing about it.
Fourth, the part of the intro Maddow read last night that talks about agreeing with many of the policies. The Conways both are solid conservatives and would be in the camp that want the policies implemented, but in a sane Bush, Reagan way.
Last, the part where Trump likes some graphic and calls for Dan! (Schivino) to get it tweeted out. If Schivino, one of the other few advisers who's been with Trump since Day 1, were the author, he wouldn't be describing the incident that particular way.
Perseus
(4,341 posts)We, at least, have someone from the inside who has been able to record this moment in history.
Some people simply want to be part of history, maybe they are not crazy about the person who now occupies the oval office, but it represents a moment in the history of the country, and they want to be part of it. Granted, this person may not have vetted the creature appropriately, but that doesn't take away the important work he/she is doing now by recording history, by laying out with very simple anecdotes the incompetence, the madness of the con for the whole World to see.
Will this book change minds? I hope so, lets all hope so. If this book manages to change the minds of 10 to 15% of his supporters, then job well done.
I can only hope that when this madness is done, that this anonymous person comes out and can tell the stories in full detail naming names, that his/her recount of history can serve the country to make sure this situation does not happen again. So byte yourself Pierce, maybe it will help you to see there is good in this. Just think about an administration packed with "yes-people" and no one to tell the story, with the madman in full reign, just think about that.
dlk
(11,564 posts)SunSeeker
(51,550 posts)Granted it's very disappointing that these folks refuse to come out and speak out against Shitler publicly, but at least they're talking. It's better than total silence. At least we know what's going on.
madaboutharry
(40,209 posts)Omarosa demonstrated more bravery and integrity.
Look at the brave people testifying now because it is the right thing.
I dont think there is a good excuse for this Mr. or Ms. Anonymous.
zentrum
(9,865 posts)......his own monstrousness. Almost like he feels an ounce of guilt over what he's enabled. So now he can be a guilty monster. Which is worse morally than being an ignorant monster.
whathehell
(29,067 posts)That's a little over the top, isn't it?
He can hardly be charged with single-handedly "enabling" Trump.
Arazi
(6,829 posts)I wish this weren't anonymous. Not sure what's true but the more stuff added to the public domain on how disastrous #Traitor is in real life is a net positive.
We don't know what will be the straw that breaks the camel's back for any person. Frankly if this book breaks off a few more cult followers that's good enough for me
PJMcK
(22,035 posts)The last sentence:
"And, anyway, I still think its Tiffany."
NoMoreRepugs
(9,422 posts)number of people writing about or verbalizing on the teevee how hard they were working behind the scenes silently to protect our Republic...in advance I call BULLSHIT.
VOX
(22,976 posts)Whatever will make people sick(er) of the mobbed-up gang of misfits who are destroying this country for their own personal gain.
If that means whoever-is Anonymous will get under 45s skin, then use it, and with vigor.
BKDem
(1,733 posts)I paid my 18 bucks and I'll read it for the entertainment value.
Back in the day, I "wallowed in Watergate." Until I can vote next November, wallowing in the details of this nightmare presidency is about all I can do to make myself feel better.
ramen
(790 posts)What difference would it make if there were a name on the front cover of this book? What information contained therein if the author stated their identity? How would their self-unmasking affect the nightmare of this administration, and how would they be in a better position to try to reduce the damage these clowns are doing from the white house if they weren't working there?
I don't understand the callings-out. I recognize that this is a popular position but I think shooting this messenger and calling out their alleged cowardice is misguided tree-barking.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)Then we will know.
bdamomma
(63,849 posts)is not like appearing in person in front of a Committee under oath.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)I didn't put much stock in this book and the author because I've seen enough Trump staffers churn out shameless cash grabs that overpromise and under-deliver (Omarosa); and I'm fucking sick of the "OH WHAT GOES ON INSIDE THE WHITE HOUSE WOULD TURN YOUR HAIR GRAY! IT'S SO SHOCKING, SURREAL, UNPRECEDENTED AND I'M TRULY CONCERNED FOR THE FUTURE OF OUR COUNTRY!! GRANTED I WASN'T CONCERNED ENOUGH TO ACTUALLY *DO* OR *SAY* SOMETHING AT THE TIME, BUT STILL...."
It's not enough to just write a tell-all in 2019, because we ALL know what goes on in the White House these days (not like anybody there is good at keeping secrets)... What I want is people willing to testify under oath.