Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Soph0571

(9,685 posts)
Thu Nov 14, 2019, 07:45 AM Nov 2019

We are witness to the beginning of the beginning, rather than the beginning of the end.

In theory, Legislators swear to uphold the Constitution, they do not swear fealty to the president, right? In theory. We know that Trump is a bully boy who will stop at nothing to get his own way and that the Republican legislators are swept up in the Trump cult of nasty personality. So, this week as we listen to the devastating evidence coming out of the hearings this should be the beginning of the end for the felon in the White House. Right?

The problem is, of course, in the real world the republicans don’t give a shit about the Constitution, they care only for power, so it matters not once jot that he is as guilty as sin. The polls will need to shift more on impeachment for them to defend the law and the constitution in any way at all – they really don’t care what he has actually done, they will defend any behaviour if it helps them cling to power. Hell, he could put out a hit on Biden, and they would argue he is not guilty because he did not actually pull the trigger.

This SHOULD be the beginning of the end. But if republicans did their job to uphold the rule of law and impeach, then Pence would be next in the impeachment firing line and that risks Pelosi in the White House, and they would rather burn the constitution to the ground than allow that to happen.

We are witness to the beginning of the beginning, rather than the beginning of the end. But we will see the end in sight soon enough if the testimony continues to be so bloody explosive. Oh, and blue wave 2020.

24 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
We are witness to the beginning of the beginning, rather than the beginning of the end. (Original Post) Soph0571 Nov 2019 OP
Agree, this will go nowhere unless the Republicans are backed into a corner. docgee Nov 2019 #1
The test may be 'overwhelming' evidence empedocles Nov 2019 #2
I disagree. The case is being played before the American public to see. Joe941 Nov 2019 #3
Maybe "gone" but Scarsdale Nov 2019 #4
It would be nice to have a statement from Robert Mueller about who was behind 2016 meddling. Lonestarblue Nov 2019 #5
Mueller is a damn disgrace without a shred of true patriotism. olegramps Nov 2019 #13
"Oh, and blue wave 2020" Considering the wave is a force of nature that usually overcomes.... usaf-vet Nov 2019 #6
Perhaps I will not win any friends, but isn't that what happened in the Obama administration? olegramps Nov 2019 #14
You are right and that HAS to STOP. We have to hold lawbreakers responsible. Each and every time. usaf-vet Nov 2019 #18
"they will defend any behaviour if it helps them cling to power" volstork Nov 2019 #7
This will not end... zaj Nov 2019 #8
YEP - 45 is the SYMPTOM not the cause Cosmocat Nov 2019 #11
What do you think are the likely impeachable actions for Pence? (n/t) thesquanderer Nov 2019 #9
We already know that he met with and spoke with Zelensky Soph0571 Nov 2019 #10
Meeting and speaking with foreign leaders is part of his job. thesquanderer Nov 2019 #17
Just following orders was the common defense of Hilter's playmates in ghastly acts of evilness. olegramps Nov 2019 #22
Right, that's why I said what I did, putting that phrase in quotes. (n/t) thesquanderer Nov 2019 #23
As true today as it was each of the last 30 mos Byte606 Nov 2019 #12
Interesting take. Firestorm49 Nov 2019 #15
astute llashram Nov 2019 #16
Agreed. BlueWI Nov 2019 #19
Trump has always been a symptom of a country where he could ever get near the Presidency meadowlander Nov 2019 #20
Or is it the end of the end before the beginning begins once the end is over? Nitram Nov 2019 #21
Begin the begin Claritie Pixie Nov 2019 #24

docgee

(870 posts)
1. Agree, this will go nowhere unless the Republicans are backed into a corner.
Thu Nov 14, 2019, 08:19 AM
Nov 2019

That won't happen without hard evidence, the real transcript, recordings or text messages. Witness testimony alone will not move the population towards removing the traitor.

 

Joe941

(2,848 posts)
3. I disagree. The case is being played before the American public to see.
Thu Nov 14, 2019, 08:30 AM
Nov 2019

There will be no choice but to remove tRump then. Trump is gone by April I predict.

Scarsdale

(9,426 posts)
4. Maybe "gone" but
Thu Nov 14, 2019, 08:47 AM
Nov 2019

never forgotten. He is a disgrace, and so are the republicans supporting this huge orange mistake. They are disgusting, rushing to defend the Russian ass-et, traitor to this country. tRump never was, nor ever will be presidential material. He is as fake as his tan and his "hair". His entire family is corrupt. Lazy, entitled asses, thinking they are special. Anyone with an ounce of conscience would fade into the background, after all the slime that is being exposed about them. I want to see the entire family penniless, having to work for a living after prison. They have destroyed so many other people's lives. Their turn is coming, the sooner the better.

Lonestarblue

(9,874 posts)
5. It would be nice to have a statement from Robert Mueller about who was behind 2016 meddling.
Thu Nov 14, 2019, 08:55 AM
Nov 2019

Barr no longer can stop Mueller from commenting. I know Mueller won’t do anything, but he knows quite well that the conspiracy theory that Trump needed to investigate Ukraine’s meddling in the election is utter nonsense created as a smokescreen. Mueller could debunk that nonsense quickly simply by issuing a statement simply saying that his investigation clearly proved that Russia was the instigator and Ukraine had nothing to do with it. That would show the investigation as a thin disguise to announce an investigation of the Bidens.

Why is it that so many people who know that Trump is destroying our government and selling foreign favors to the world’s worst leaders refuse to say one word? There is nothing Trump can do to Mueller, or John Bolton for that matter. Why is Bolton playing games instead of walking into the House and telling what he knows? Republican senators know that Trump is betraying the country. People like Lindsey Graham are beyond hope, but surely there are a few patriots who have a spine and could speak out. Our house is on fire, yet they are standing around watching instead of doing anything to put it out. Russia simply cannot own all of the Republicans.

olegramps

(8,200 posts)
13. Mueller is a damn disgrace without a shred of true patriotism.
Thu Nov 14, 2019, 11:02 AM
Nov 2019

His explanation for not making a judgement in regard to Trump's guilt regarding obstruction is totally contradicted by his exoneration of any guilt of conspiracy with regard to the Russian intrusion into our elections. If he could not find Trump and his henchmen guilty of obstruction because of some so-called DOJ policy then how did he absolve him of conspiracy using the same reasoning? He could only have said I have uncovered the following evidence. He only applied that in regard to the more serious charge of conspiracy. He and his family are dear close associates with the Barr family of which he has expressed deep admiration. He is just another lousy Republican bastard in my estimation. His reaction to the Barr total misrepresentation of the investigation was at best a weak along with his response to the congress. He did his job for the party and the result is that the extensive investigation has been totally consigned to the dustbin of history.

usaf-vet

(6,092 posts)
6. "Oh, and blue wave 2020" Considering the wave is a force of nature that usually overcomes....
Thu Nov 14, 2019, 09:00 AM
Nov 2019

... all manmade obstructions we should all be content considering the power of a wave. But I can't convince myself that any blue wave will overcome Trump in 2020. Consider the fact that Clinton had 3 million more votes than Trump but look who sits in the WH.

I'm concerned that with the assistance of foreign countries, Russia and China being the most likely, that no matter how big the wave is it might still fall short in the final tallying because there is no length that Trump won't go to steal the 2020 election to avoid being held accountable for the laws he has broken.

The GOP surely must realize that if they lose the WH and potentially the Senate that they will be in a defensive mode for years to come.

Hopefully, if we win the Democrats will once and for all expose the GOP for what it is. The party that is willing to ignore the laws ignore the Constitution, ignore the plight of the poor and middle-class families, ignore the national healthcare crisis, ignore the national debt exploded by the GOP tax cut for the top 1%.

I'm concerned that even if we do win back the WH and possibly the senate that the Democrats will take the stand to let's not look back. Let's let bygones be bygones and just move forward. I feel we need to hold the GOP responsible for the lawlessness of the Trump presidency. We need to have investigations to expose the extent of the corruption the GOP was willing to ignore.

We have less than one year to secure the 2020 elections let's not ignore the threats.

olegramps

(8,200 posts)
14. Perhaps I will not win any friends, but isn't that what happened in the Obama administration?
Thu Nov 14, 2019, 11:14 AM
Nov 2019

I contend that extensive investigations should have been opened into the absolute lies that the used to take us to war in Iraq. The Republicans should have been held accountable. No, we had "let's all be friends" and "let's move on" while the Republicans were continuing to shove it right up our posterior with their obstruction that paralyzed the government. The Republicans have no such restraints. Look how they pursued Hillary Clinton when they controlled the House.

usaf-vet

(6,092 posts)
18. You are right and that HAS to STOP. We have to hold lawbreakers responsible. Each and every time.
Thu Nov 14, 2019, 02:40 PM
Nov 2019

Otherwise, we need to STEAL one election with a foreign country's help.

And we need to STEAL TWO SCOTUS seats.

And we need to never pass A GOP bill with a Democratic Presidents signature.

As for hearings we need to hold hearings for all the wrongdoings from Trump's time in office. The Turkey/Kurds giveaway. Any reasonable person can see that there is more to the story than we have heard. With Trump, we know there is always more there to get to the whole truth.

Then there are the security clearances we can hand out like candy.

And the millions for presidential getaways. If not golf, fishing trips, hunting trips, winter skiing trips. All expenses paid. Dollar for dollar day for day to equal the Trump standard.

It will never end. OR we need to say enough is enough and establish blame and write legislation TO STOP the ABUSES.

volstork

(5,393 posts)
7. "they will defend any behaviour if it helps them cling to power"
Thu Nov 14, 2019, 09:11 AM
Nov 2019

This is the entire story in a nutshell.

 

zaj

(3,433 posts)
8. This will not end...
Thu Nov 14, 2019, 09:53 AM
Nov 2019

Watching all the other elected Republicans collapse into total authoritarian followers, the GOP is changed... Forever.

And it's not going back. Even when Trump is gone, the next person won't be as crazy but the base will be. And with Fox News willing to turbocharge the crazy "Russian Firehose of Falsehoods" propaganda machine... the party will never stand up for anything.

If Will Hurd, an African American, GenXer, former Intel officer, representing a border district, friends with Beto.... will retire and STILL not take a strong public stand against the GOP's collapse into crazy propaganda or defend his brothers and sisters in the interview community...

...where exactly is the GOP resistance going to come from? Ever?

Cosmocat

(14,543 posts)
11. YEP - 45 is the SYMPTOM not the cause
Thu Nov 14, 2019, 10:09 AM
Nov 2019

Coin flip that we will ever get him out of the white house, but you are spot on that the cancer is full on stage 1 throughout all of the GOP and the zombie base - the zombie base completely unhinged because the party leaders won't step and the FEW party leaders who have not complete bought their own kool aid too scared of the base to step up.

We are the mercy of the "middle" which is entrenched in the "both are the same fog" and poisoned by the hate framing of liberals.

Until those with some sanity and decency left in them join those of us who never bought any of this bullshit, we are going to continue to move in a very dangerous direction.

Soph0571

(9,685 posts)
10. We already know that he met with and spoke with Zelensky
Thu Nov 14, 2019, 10:06 AM
Nov 2019

I am sure that Congress will be eager to get to the bottom of how much of that was at Trumps behest re Bidens.

Two of Pence's staffers were on the July 25 call between Trump and Zelensky, including Williams, as well as Gen. Keith Kellogg, the vice president's national security adviser, who has not yet been called to testify. Pence did not listen in, but was told about the call the day afterward, according to two sources familiar with the matter. A transcript of the call was put into Pence's daily briefing binder, according to three sources.
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/11/07/politics/mike-pence-ukraine-house-democrats-impeachment/index.html

thesquanderer

(11,953 posts)
17. Meeting and speaking with foreign leaders is part of his job.
Thu Nov 14, 2019, 01:51 PM
Nov 2019

But even if he did exert pressure vis-a-vis a Biden/Burisma... if he did that at the behest of Trump, it might be hard to justify impeachment for Pence for following Trump's orders. Not impossible, but a high bar. "Just following orders" may be a poor defense, but it may be enough to appease even those Republican senators who might actually consider removing Trump from office... especially if a President Pelosi is what would be waiting in the wings. I think you'd need a lot more than that for them to get rid of Pence. Heck, we may find it's not even enough to get rid of Trump!

Byte606

(11 posts)
12. As true today as it was each of the last 30 mos
Thu Nov 14, 2019, 10:20 AM
Nov 2019

This could be true but has been asserted each month for the last two and one half years. Eventually it will be a bullseye. The

llashram

(6,265 posts)
16. astute
Thu Nov 14, 2019, 01:32 PM
Nov 2019

I just hope the instability, socially, culturally, financially is brief and lands with real con-artists going to jail. I think, no matter the Senate, major players all the way into the Oval Office need to be brought to justice. Yep.

meadowlander

(4,358 posts)
20. Trump has always been a symptom of a country where he could ever get near the Presidency
Sat Nov 16, 2019, 09:34 PM
Nov 2019

in the first place.

The same country that re-elected GWB after Katrina and Iraq.

The problems are:

Fox news
The electoral college
Vote suppression and gerrymandering
Citizens United
Tax-exempt churches that endorse political candidates
Political, civic and historical illiteracy
Texas Board of Education's stranglehold on textbooks
Anti-intellectualism
Union-busting and anti-union propaganda
Reluctance to prosecute rich and powerful criminals
Apathy among Democratic voters

If we don't want someone even worse than Trump in another eight years, then it's time to start tackling some of those issues.

Nitram

(22,663 posts)
21. Or is it the end of the end before the beginning begins once the end is over?
Sat Nov 16, 2019, 11:26 PM
Nov 2019

Just remember, tomorrow is the first day of the rest of your life!

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»We are witness to the beg...