*** Thread 4 IMPEACHMENT HEARING DAY 2**

[bdamomma]

More video stream links: https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212688024#post9
NYT Live Updates: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/15/us/politics/impeachment-hearings.html
Global News Canada Live Blog: https://globalnews.ca/news/6170717/live-blog-trump-impeachment-ukraine/

&feature=youtu.be

[bdamomma]

1. K&R

nt

[Legends303]

2. It may be a smart politics for Republicans

To dismiss Yovanovitch as a partisan and normalize Trump’s behavior, though I don’t how much that is going to work.

[nolabear]

3. What a day! I'm never going to get my work done!

But it’s worth it.

[Mersky]

4. Idiotic callers on C-SPAN

Was saying Yovanovitch was overly emotional, and gave concern a ambassador would behave that way.

Good grief, she must not have watched the hearing, and only regurgitating fox spews. Ambassador Yovanovitch has remained collected, cogent, sincere, and credible throughout the hearing.
...

Oof, now some numbnut just promoted his deep state conspiracy site.

[bdamomma]

5. That's all they have

talking points and propaganda.

If someone can start new threads after this one I would be most grateful.

What a day!

[Mersky]

6. Yeah, it's infuriating.

Just figured I’d document a bit of the experience.

[Mersky]

7. Here we go! Schiff is about to speak.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

8. ABC back covering it

PBS stayed on during the break

[Bernardo de La Paz]

9. Republican no-shows? Empty chairs on panel?

[BumRushDaShow]

10. About to start again - she has just walked into the room and is seated.

[BumRushDaShow]

11. Time to hit MUTE - NUMNUT NUNES on.

[bdamomma]

12. Nunez

mute button on.

[catbyte]

13. Sprinting for the mute button...

[BumRushDaShow]

16. !!!!!!!!!

[Mersky]

14. Nunes is obsessed with that basement.

Whatta paranoid loon.

[crickets]

21. Hearings are hardly "secret" when he is free to attend

along with other Repubs on the pertinent committees, and the whole world has transcripts within days.

[Mersky]

30. I despise their neverending theater of playing dumb.

Nunes broke his oath so long ago, that anything goes with him.

[BumRushDaShow]

15. NUNES BULLSHIT

but it seems that he has taken more tranquilizers.

[BumRushDaShow]

17. Schiff is SMACKING down the idiot from NY for violating the rules

[Hermit-The-Prog]

22. yep. rules decided before today

They knew it. Broke 'em anyway for show.

[mnhtnbb]

18. Nunez starts right out as an asshole

by congratulating the Ambassador on graduating from the secret basement interview room.

You could see her thinking she will need all her skills of diplomacy to sit and not tell him what she thinks of him.

Nap time for me.

[Fresh_Start]

29. She should make a point

that truth doesn't matter which location...basement or public hearing. Truth is the same.

[BumRushDaShow]

19. THEY HAVE NOTHING

They keep passing the torch and now have their lawyer on.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

20. even I know it's either Nunes or Castor time, not anybody else

[BumRushDaShow]

25. I'm guessing that in the future, McCarthy will remove Nunes from that ranking member position

and shove Gymsuit there.

[SKKY]

23. Good lord! This guy Castor is not good. Not good at all.

He doesn't seem to want to be there.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

26. doesn't know what he wants to ask!

[BumRushDaShow]

27. Because they don't have anything and probably heard what happened with Roger Stone!

[Bettie]

82. Any decent lawyer would have turned this gig down

So, they are left with the B or C list.

[SKKY]

140. I'm guessing that's why they have the most frighteningly mediocre lawyer...

...asking questions.

[Bettie]

144. At least some of the really bad ones

are entertaining.

This guy is the verbal equivalent of lukewarm plain oatmeal sitting in a warmer on a hotel buffet.

[Mersky]

24. Hey, kids, it's time for the hearsay shuffle

Nunes to Stefinik.

Now, over to the weenie in a suit, Castor.

[crickets]

28. Wow, Stefanik and Nunes are not going by the rules

and Schiff is not having it. Only Nunes and counsel are allowed to question now; other reps only get 5 minute intervals later. I guess they were trying to get her to do it, since their lawyer is so at sea.

Nope!

[nolabear]

31. Schiff is a hero. I hope he gets all the credit he deserves.

[crickets]

33. Agreed! He is running a tight ship and that's exactly what we need. nt

[nolabear]

36. No kidding. We need protection from their chaos.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

32. it's the "We're victims of meanie Democrats!" show

[elleng]

38. Right, blame Dems 'cause they don't 'get' the rules.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

41. more like, they know their constituents don't 'get' the rules

[AnotherMother4Peace]

45. reminds me of 2nd graders ganging up to break the rules & challenge authority. nt

[Ilsa]

117. They know the optics of a man attacking her are bad, so

they wanted their only token congresswoman to attack her.

[crickets]

126. +1

[barbtries]

34. this republican lawyer is not good.

"all the best people" they're scraping the bottom of the barrel.

the best people in reality are over this president. most of them if not all always were. just watching him go down the escalator was plenty for me. his pathology, demagoguery, mendacity, and personality disorders were observable from the get.

i'm starting to think that this lawyer's goal is to make the hearing boring by talking about meaningless shit. that's what you do when you got nothing at all.

i'm reminded of an adolescent kid trying to make conversation with a pretty girl. not sure why but that's what comes to mind.

[Midnightwalk]

35. Schiff shut them up again and stuck with their lawyer

Poor nunes who has to attend double secret meetings in the basement and whines about the public version of those meetings that all these committee members attend.

Then stefnik. It’s the fifth time she was interrupted for speaking when she isn’t recognized by the chair. Schiff looked like he’d be happy to interrupt and shut her up another dozen times.

Now we’re back to their weaseling lawyer. That guy has a permanent sneer. He’s busy asking her to come up with corrupt reasons trump wanted her removed and confirming that Taylor is a man of integrity.

[nolabear]

40. She's doing really well. Not playing into his innuendos.

He seems to be trying to set her up. Makes me very suspicious. She’s doing great though.

[LaurenOlimina]

37. Castor establishes the integrity of the Dems star witness...

...astounding.

This guy is awful.

[Mme. Defarge]

39. He seems to be making the Democrats' case!

[nolabear]

42. He's up to something...he might underestimate her.

[crickets]

49. He keeps trying to load the questions, put words in her mouth

to a degree. She's doing a good job of questioning that, asking for clarification, and turning it back to him.

[SamKnause]

43. I wouldn't hire Castor to represent me.

He is absolutely terrible.

His scowling frowning face is a distraction.

[tblue37]

80. That's a furrowed brow, doncha know? It signifies seriousness and concern. nt

[underpants]

44. Just tuned. She asked HIM a question!?! Then he, a lawyer, asked WHY not?

[budkin]

46. This counsel seems to be working against the GOP

DEEEEEP STAAAATE!

[Bernardo de La Paz]

56. Yeah, but he's trying to put out she wasn't involved & wasn't fired by Giuliani gang actions.

In process, he has accepted that there was a "concerted campaign against" Yovanovich, including Giuliani and the two indicted would-be-escapees.

[MissouriLibrul]

47. Adam Schiff

for Attorney General in the new Democratic President’s administration. I’d love to see him run for President in the future, but he is sorely needed as AG to help restore the absolute trashing of the Rule of Law by Trump and his lackeys, in particular the corrupt faux AG Barr.

[nolabear]

48. This sounds like a setup of some kind. I'm very suspicious.

[BumRushDaShow]

53. Normally I would agree

but it seems they are having some issues trying to find some strategy other than "hearsay hearsay hearsay". It does sound like he is aiming to determine why she didn't make a fuss about what she saw happening around her and reporting that.

[MissouriLibrul]

54. Hard to set-up someone telling the truth.

[backtoblue]

55. Hes trying to get her to say anything that would justify her removal

Shes doing a great job of explaining each point

[AnotherMother4Peace]

90. I'm also suspicious of a setup, but there doesn't seem to be a knock down & times running out. nt

[nolabear]

99. True. And now Schiff has the chance to "clarify."

I love his clarifications.

[Midnightwalk]

50. This guy castro is not good

He’s getting her to talk about a corrupt sounding oil deal and the corrupt former prosecutor

Now about how the attempts to remove her disrupted us policy aims.

I guess I’ll have to wait for nunes and jordan to connect the dots. I’m not getting what story he’s trying to tell. Maybe that she should have fought harder against the campaign against her? It’s her fault?

[bdamomma]

51. What is Castor

doing gasping for air??? Repigs have nothing.

[TlalocW]

57. Wouldn't it be something that Castor

Is just getting caught up in what she's talking about and wants to learn more, and forgetting he's supposed to be doing a hatchet job?

TlalocW

[D_Master81]

52. Now I see why they didn't want to go to their lawyer

Sheesh.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

74. HE is their lawyer. Schiff shut the Representative Stefanik who was ready to Gish Gallop. . . . nt

[BumRushDaShow]

58. He seems to now be focussing on "corruption"

probably to suggest that Drumpf only held the money due to "corruption".

[MerryBlooms]

61. He's leading into Biden conspiracy theory

[BumRushDaShow]

64. Yes but what is happening is that the truth will blow up the CT.

[klook]

68. BURISMA BURISMA BURISMA!!1!1

What a surprise...

[crickets]

73. He's certainly taking his time.

Rather than lull anyone into complacency during the journey, I think it's going to backfire. There's no 'there' there.

[MerryBlooms]

81. He's swirling down the drain.

[LaurenOlimina]

59. Great, their guy establishes Pompeo's awareness

This is the worst lawyer I've ever seen.

[Mersky]

60. You can't even talk about corruption in Russia

Says the ambassador in contrast to the ability to address corruption in Ukraine. That corruption is part of the Soviet legacy.

[Watchfoxheadexplodes]

62. I see where castor oil gets its name

No bathrooms open on the break he looks very constipated.

[hibbing]

63. Biden Burisma, Burisma Biden over and over and over ugh n/t

[JohnnyLib2]

65. Somewhere in the future--

I hope to hear/read about her personal thoughts on being in this position.

Another thought; maybe as a senatorial candidate?

[unitedwethrive]

70. What state is she from?

[elleng]

77. Canada

Marie Yovanovitch is the daughter of Mikhail Yovanovitch and Nadia (Theokritoff) Yovanovitch,[5] who fled the Soviet Union and later the Nazis.[3] She was born in Canada, moved to Connecticut at age three, and became a naturalized American citizen at age eighteen. She grew up speaking Russian.[3]

Yovanovitch graduated from the Kent School in Connecticut in 1976; her parents were longtime foreign language teachers at the school.[6] Yovanovitch earned a B.A. in History and Russian Studies from Princeton University in 1980.[7] She studied at the Pushkin Institute (1980) and was awarded an M.S. from the National Defense University's National War College in 2001.[7]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Yovanovitch

[unitedwethrive]

86. So Connecticut...where we already have two Dems

[elleng]

95. Likely in/around DC now, as has a job of some sort at Georgetown (I think.)

[Olafjoy]

66. Ugh!

The rethug lawyer, Bigears Mc Stinky, bugs me.

[pangaia]

67. "I'm sorry. What was your question?" LOLOLOL

Her best answer yet !!

His questions are just read off a sheet, like stream of consciousness.... could throw off a lesses witness..
Not Y, though !

[Hermit-The-Prog]

69. I've figured it out: Castor's job is to get listeners to gouge out eardrums for relief

[klook]

71. Chalupa again...

They’re alerting the goons to go after her.

[bdamomma]

72. What

is this Castor guy trying to trap her or make her say something.

[calimary]

150. Of course! He was trying to impeach the witness, or get her to

impeach herself.

When she interjected the reminder that the intel community had determined it was RUSSIA and not Ukraine or someplace/somebody-else-over-there-somewhere, I felt happy inside.

She wouldn’t play along. AND she got that into the record. And more than once.

I always appreciate when the good guys have a good lawyer.

When I first saw Castor, it struck me that “sheesh - this guy looks like he’s straight outta Central Casting for bad-guy lawyer.” He has a sinister look about him. May have been his thin angular face, or the dark overhanging brow and short wiry hair. Or some such. He definitely had the look.

And he wasn’t very good at his job (assuming his job was to impeach or otherwise poke holes in the witness). But then again, he didn’t have a whole lot to work with, either. This witness was impeccable, highly credible, and unimpeachable. And extremely sympathetic. Moreso by the minute as she told her story.

As odd as it might seem, I actually felt sorry for him.

[crickets]

75. Ken Vogel [Politico] and Alexandra Chalupa.

Here we go.

eta - none of the black ledger stuff had anything to do with her directly. He is reaching so hard to connect her to this or to make it sound like she should be in the loop in some way - good for her for pointing out that, while she'd heard of this, it's not her purview.

[Midnightwalk]

76. No wonder nunes and stefinik pushed so hard

To get a chance to ask more. Castor is a disaster asking questions. Nunes had nothing. They needed someone with a pulse interviewing Yovanovitch and castor isn’t it.

Should I be alarmed l haven’t really heard from Jordan? Maybe he’s in mourning over stone.

Why does castor look like he’s constantly trying to figure out who farted. I think he dealt it.

[blaze]

78. Just talking until they get a sound bite they can twist

[catbyte]

79. Is it just me or this clown flailing around for something, anything, to ask?

[underpants]

84. Physically flailing around too

I commented on that below

[Hermit-The-Prog]

87. argle bargle was it wheeze your um argle understanding er wheeze what was the question

[underpants]

83. Now he's going into some sort of gyrations when asking questions

[crickets]

85. Notice all they have is an op-ed, not an actual NEWS article. nt

oh, and social media... gosh, Castor is just lost.

[jayschool2013]

103. Republicans don't understand the difference

Seriously, they think journalists all sit around and diabolically try to figure out ways to make Republicans look bad, and then fabricate stories that do just that.

In truth, they just report what Republicans say and do.

[blaze]

88. Trying to normalize drumphs "investigating corruption"

[backtoblue]

89. !

!



Sorry for vagueness, continued listening. Had to do with meanness of social media and she had a zing

[Politicub]

91. About the Black Ledger

I wasn’t familiar with it so looked it up. In short, all roads lead back to Russia.

Secret Ledger in Ukraine Lists Cash for Donald Trump’s Campaign Chief

Mr. Manafort’s presence remains elsewhere here in [Kiev], where government investigators examining secret records have found his name, as well as companies he sought business with, as they try to untangle a corrupt network they say was used to loot Ukrainian assets and influence elections during the administration of Mr. Manafort’s main client, former President Viktor F. Yanukovych.

Handwritten ledgers show $12.7 million in undisclosed cash payments designated for Mr. Manafort from Mr. Yanukovych’s pro-Russian political party from 2007 to 2012, according to Ukraine’s newly formed National Anti-Corruption Bureau. Investigators assert that the disbursements were part of an illegal off-the-books system whose recipients also included election officials.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/15/us/politics/paul-manafort-ukraine-donald-trump.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share

[TlalocW]

92. Did she just stun him by stating the fact that Russia interfered in the elections?

He seemed taken aback that she went there... or maybe upset that his questioning allowed her to get there.

TlalocW

[Arkansas Granny]

94. It's great how she slipped that in there.

[crickets]

96. He did pivot away from that quickly, didn't he?

Oopsie, I think he made an outright mistake there.

[Politicub]

97. "He's flopping around like a fish."

According to my husband.

I would say that’s an accurate assessment.

[BumRushDaShow]

98. Nothing. NOW TO 5 minute rounds - Schiff on.

[Midnightwalk]

100. Castor: Is my time coming to an end?

Please please let me be done

[TlalocW]

101. What is this javelin crap?

Wasn't that back in 2018? Aren't we talking about stuff that happened this summer?

TlalocW

[LaurenOlimina]

107. The Javelins are the military aid that was held up by OMB.

They are in the infamous call. They were released just after Trump got caught, and anyone with firsthand knowledge of their delay is being denied to the impeachment committee.

They were important as a deterrent to Russia. They are advanced anti-tank weapons.

[crickets]

115. He's trying to make Obama look bad in comparison to Trump

At that time, the leadership in Ukraine was not trusted and sending them was a bad idea. We sent aid, but not javelins.
Bringing it up wasn't a great idea though, because initially Trump held them back as well, to please Putin.

Discussion here:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212675657

There's another thread about Obama and blankets comments from yesterday, but I can't find it right now.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

102. yay! Castor's done!

[Miles Archer]

104. Schiff's a friggin' NINJA, baby...

Just took the air out of Nunes' opening "this should have been referred to HR" crap and is leaning in HARD on TRUMP.

[nolabear]

108. His long game is a thing of beauty. The TWO calls.

Takes the air right out of their perfect little sails.

[Mersky]

105. Note to castor bean: smarmy brow furrowing and jerkface smiles

Didn’t make the pResident or complicit republicon lackeys look any better.

Instead, you revealed the breadth of working knowledge that a long term civil servant brings to a matter as serious as this.

[nolabear]

106. Hoooo boy. I wouldn't want to be Sondland right now.

Schiff is brilliant.

[catbyte]

109. No kidding.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

110. Nunes' eyes are scary, dead

[BumRushDaShow]

111. MOO MOO MUTE!

[LaurenOlimina]

112. Here it comes...

The April call shows Donald Trump is liar.

[BumRushDaShow]

113. Here comes Stupidfuckit.

[nolabear]

114. Stefanik is the designated hit woman. Note, woman.

She is useful against sexism charges, and she should be ashamed.

[demmiblue]

116. Yep. n/t

[crickets]

119. She can't even be polite or pleasant when supposedly

being complimentary.

Also, here goes the speedy talking again.

[elleng]

123. Yes.

'And we will continue' (dragging Hunter Biden/Burisma into the circus.)

[badhair77]

125. She's being used and seems to be proud of it.

Hopefully her day will come.

[madaboutharry]

118. Sondland paid $1,000,000 to buy himself a world of hurt.

Sondland is going to do what he can to save himself. He will be roundly abused by the republicans at his hearing.

[Politicub]

120. How the GOP members handle the 5-minute rounds is cringe inducing.

[madaboutharry]

121. Talking about Burisma and Hunter Biden is a waste of time.

[hibbing]

127. Get used to it

It's the new Hilary's emails. Every single one of them will pound that over and over.


Peace

[padah513]

122. How many rounds of five minutes each do committee members get

Is it one round or two?

[BumRushDaShow]

124. Jim Himes (D-CT) questioning

[crickets]

130. He did a good job asking her that if she had remained ambassador

whether she would have supported holding back aid or recommended Trump ask Zelinsky to "find out about Biden's son."

Of course she quietly answered no to both.

[BumRushDaShow]

133. Yup.

He - especially the mention of the "3 month delay" of aid!

[BumRushDaShow]

128. MUTE ALERT - Mike Conway (R-TX) up

Seems the latest talking point is that she was not punished but given a plum assignment teaching at Georgetown.

[crickets]

134. What a slap in the face to pretend it was a favor in the end to torpedo her ambassadorial career.

Nothing at all against a professorship at Georgetown, but honestly.

[BumRushDaShow]

135. That was an idiotic underhanded tactic that he did.

[nolabear]

129. Oh no, there were NO negative consequences. So 45's insults mean nothing?

[BumRushDaShow]

131. Michael Turner (R-OH) putting old articles into the record using up his time.

[crickets]

138. All of them are about the whistleblower supposedly being set to testify "according to Schiff."

Yes, let's all take news reporting of shifting events from weeks or months ago as though it's testimony of some sort.

[BumRushDaShow]

132. Terri Sewell (D-AL) up

[DeminPennswoods]

136. Amb Yovanovich is answering questions quite

diplomatically.

[BumRushDaShow]

137. MUTE ALERT Mike Turner (R-OH) back again.

[bdamomma]

141. yea for sure

nt.

[bdamomma]

139. Crap another repig

crap. And talking fast too.

[BumRushDaShow]

142. Dumbass Turner cut off by Schiff.

Now trying to dig up John Kerry & Clinton Foundation.

Trying to justify Ghouliani being there.

[catbyte]

143. LOL, nice try to make Sondland legitimately meddling in the Ukraine

[Mersky]

145. It is unusual for the ambassador to the EU to be assigned to all of Ukraine

I paraphrased her, but that was a moment for Yovanovitch that I'm compelled to note.

[BumRushDaShow]

146. Andre Carson (D-IN) up

[crickets]

147. Thread had gotten long again

Thread #5 is live here:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212689891

[bdamomma]

148. thank you crickets

[BumRushDaShow]

149. MUTE ALERT - Chris Stewart (R-UT)

He was whining about no collusion IGNORING that Roger Stone just got convicted for just that!