***IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY HEARING NOV 19 THREAD 2***

[Hermit-The-Prog]

Link to 1st thread, with streams:
***IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY HEARING NOV 19 THREAD 1***

[crickets]

1. bringing last comment over from other thread

Question: why would OMB review funds to see if they

were in line w/policy after the funds were already voted upon and released by Congress? Is that normal?


eta answer received
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212702820#post125

[JHB]

2. Obligatory

Support the artist: Give the original a click:
https://www.gocomics.com/mo/2019/11/18

[Hermit-The-Prog]

4. love Ann Telnaes

https://anntelnaes.com/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/people/ann-telnaes/

[Mersky]

8. Love her work.

Totally is, omg:

[crickets]

11. Ha! Love it. nt

[BumRushDaShow]

3. Schiff now handing off to Dan Goldman (Commitee Majority counsel)

[Hermit-The-Prog]

5. glad we have Goldman on our side, not Castor

[BumRushDaShow]

7. Ain't that the damn truth!

[crickets]

6. Thank goodness for good people like Vindman

who are paying attention, and who speak up when something goes wrong. You can tell how difficult this is for Vindman, but he is a man of integrity who did the right thing. Bringing up military culture, understanding of orders, knowing about power disparity between Zelensky and Trump and how that put Z. over a barrel when asked to do a favor in order to get the money.

Vindman is doing a great job, then and now.

[BumRushDaShow]

9. HERE ARE SOME STREAMS

[crickets]

61. Thank you for the thread and links, BumRushDaShow! nt

[mucifer]

10. Was this part of the talking points?

[Roland99]

12. Anyone else thinking that the movie version of this will have Kim Raver as Ms Williams?

[chowder66]

90. Good call! nt

[Laura PourMeADrink]

125. Why? Does she move he mouth in a funny distracting way too?

[crickets]

13. Vindman's job is to coordinate US policy to make sure it is cohesive and coherent,

including providing talking points for the call. Trump ignored the talking points Vindman provided, talking instead about:

wants a favor
Crowdstrike
server, you have it

No credible evidence to show Ukraine meddled in 2016 election, that is VPutin's conspiracy theory & Russia was the one who actually interfered.

[crickets]

14. Now covering the points that there is no credible evidence against Joe Biden. nt

[elleng]

15. 'I speak Russian, Ukrainian, and a little bit of English!!!'

[BumRushDaShow]

17. He's a riot

[Pacifist Patriot]

18. That was a great moment!

[dalton99a]

20. Good one

[Skinner]

16. I'm finding Vindman to be a very compelling witness. (nt)

[crickets]

19. Agreed. A lot of it comes from his obvious high level of competence, eh? nt

[Pacifist Patriot]

21. Me too. Of course he'll be crucified by some (gee who would that be)

for not being more charismatic and entertaining. He's clearly not a comfortable public speaker, but I think that adds to his credibility. I'd sure be nervous as hell in his seat.

[BumRushDaShow]

22. Lordy be there are tapes!

(one of the issues left out of the transcript represented by some ellipses)

[Auggie]

23. Game changer?

[BumRushDaShow]

25. Well the subpoenas have asked for anything they had

and of course all they got was a truncated "transcript" of a call...

[Roland99]

24. Odds they still exist??

I think I have better odds of being hit by a meteor while I'm wearing a pink tutu and reciting War and Peace in its in entirety...backwards.

[dweller]

27. how do you wear a tutu .. backwards?

n/t

✌🏼

[Javaman]

30. very carefully. ;) LOL nt

[Roland99]

39. Yes...this.

[BumRushDaShow]

29. Well if they are "gone"

that is just plain old "destruction of government property" and a violation of the "Presidential Records Act" (PRA).

[crickets]

35. This time there is no adorable Rose Mary Woods to cook up a reason for it, either. nt

[BumRushDaShow]

37. With phone calls

there's always the other party's recordings (and anyone else who might have been listening from the other side).

[Pacifist Patriot]

32. Hard to say in this day and age.

It may not be as easy as lighting a match to one of these.

[crickets]

28. Doin' the Nixon dance!!

Everybody, both arms up in the air throwing peace signs! Shake your head and say it: "I am not a crook!"

[madaboutharry]

26. Lt. Col Vindman is a totally credible witness.

He is just giving the facts and holding the line at speculation.

This is exactly what he should do.

The republicans are going to find it mighty difficult to portray him as a partisan.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

31. Schiff seems to be skipping around too much. IMHO

Not sure why he wouldn't follow a logical time line of events. Maybe just a linear thinker but sure there are others like me out there.

Sometimes people know so much they forget that others dont

[BumRushDaShow]

33. The lawyer is doing the questioning (has been for awhile now)

[Laura PourMeADrink]

40. Yes, sorry behind. Atty much better

[BumRushDaShow]

43. Well one thing that makes this tricky is the 2 different witnesses testifying together

but who were part of different calls/situations.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

73. Agree. Hmmm still getting feeling general public

Might not be following all this...just because it's not being set up like a logical story for them to follow.

Has nothing to do with us, who know a lot ...just putting yourself in the eyes of people who don't.

[BumRushDaShow]

88. I think the story came last week

For this week, these are actually the "first hand" accounts (the "weeds" ) of that story, which would be more useful for the committee than for the public. I.e., these are "fact witnesses" with first hand knowledge who are corroborating the story.

(not much different from the Nixon/Watergate hearings with the "plumbers" and all the machinations behind the break-in)

[Laura PourMeADrink]

110. Yes. Seeing everything through the lens of 'we have

to get rid of the monster ' and want us to reach as many voters as possible is all.

[MerryBlooms]

38. The opening script on both sides

welcomed the witnesses, but I noticed the usual 'Thank you for your service', was omitted on both sides and also Goldman. Wondering why... Maybe I missed it.

[Pacifist Patriot]

41. I think you may have missed that. I'm pretty sure I heard it from Schiff.

Not sure about Nunes. I tend to zone out when he starts mooing.

[MerryBlooms]

46. Okay, that's good. Thanking Vindman for his service is important optics, plus

it's just the right thing to do.

Thanks for the info.

[tazkcmo]

111. Chairman shift acknowledge

That the lieutenant colonel spilled blood for this country and acknowledged our debt to him as a country

[MerryBlooms]

133. Yes, thanks.

[H2O Man]

34. I find Dan Goldman

very impressive. I have enjoyed watching him on CNN and MSNBC in the past, of course. But his service in these hearings is outstanding.

[elleng]

36. Yes

[Laura PourMeADrink]

42. Yes, he sets up question and is not monotone. Still

Like our Lewandowski atty

[Karma13612]

142. Would he be called to

Assist in the Judiciary committee alongside Nadler?
I sort of hope he does because I find Nadler gets flustered sometimes, and it makes him look ineffective.

[H2O Man]

143. Yes.

[BumRushDaShow]

44. Daniel Goldman has concluded and MOO MOO is up with Castor oil

[Roland99]

45. The next 45 minutes is going to be one, long series of cow pies

[Happy Hoosier]

48. Yeah, I cannot listen to Nunes. Fuck him. NT

[BumRushDaShow]

47. MOO MOO doing the CT

and not getting any help from Williams.

[blaze]

49. Just throwing out false talking points...

[MerryBlooms]

56. It's all they've got, because there is NO defense for the shit the WH has pulled.

[hibbing]

50. Burisma, Hunter Biden, Chalupa, Hunter Biden, Hunter Biden....on and on gawd n/t

[crickets]

51. For anyone unable to watch this,

Wonkette really is doing a good job on liveblog. It's irreverent, but comprehensive:

https://www.wonkette.com/lets-watch-republicans-sh-t-on-a-guy-with-a-purple-heart-impeachment-liveblog-day-three

[klook]

138. So excellent.

NUNES: I am going to ask Vindman the same questions, none of which make sense to anybody who doesn't huff paint off Sean Hannity's sexxx nipples.

VINDMAN: I have zero idea what the fuck any of you are talking about.

10:38: NUNES: In conclusion, I am going to say a bunch of weirdo shit about RUSSIA COLLUSION HOAX and stuff, and I am not going to SAY you are leakers, but I am going to kind of imply it? Anyway, Jennifer Williams, you are the leaker.

WILLIAMS: I am not the leaker.

[BumRushDaShow]

52. MOO MOO asking same questions to Vindman

and he is not helping him either.

They know it's bullshit.

[Botany]

53. Devin!

Has he gotten to Hillary Clinton's email server yet?

[sheshe2]

54. Moo:

Hunter Biden. Hunter Biden. Hunter Biden!!!

[crickets]

58. That's why he's on myooooote right now.

[onecaliberal]

55. I can't listen to this steaming pile of crap.

[spanone]

57. Nunes goes down the route of debunked Biden bullshit

[Hermit-The-Prog]

63. it's all they got

[crickets]

69. He's trying to make it sound like Hunter Biden was getting paid off

in some nefarious fashion rather than being paid salary for being on Burisma board.

[underthematrix]

59. Got a 45 minute break while Nunes does his fake conspiracy show

[BumRushDaShow]

60. MOO MOO calling stuff reported in the press was "classified"

[malaise]

68. What I find amusing is that ReTHUGs are not interested in

whether their president committed bribery and extortion. He only wants to know how this became public

[MFGsunny]

139. Eggs-actly THIS! n/t

[malaise]

145. They have nothing

They cannot argue against the facts

[hibbing]

62. Russian Collusion Hoax

God, Nunes is an absolute....I don't even know what to say.

P.S. When was Hunter Biden elected president?

Peace

[elleng]

64. Hang it up, nooones.

[BumRushDaShow]

65. MOO MOO trying to find "leaks"

despite the fact that the President released their "transcript" (in quotes) of the July 25th call TO THE MEDIA!

[calimary]

100. Devin MOOnes.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

131. Like how he didn't include fox when he listed all the news outlets !

[JohnnyLib2]

66. Have you stopped beating your dog?

He may get to that yet.

[mucifer]

67. I can only handle nunes with Stephanie Miller live commentary:

https://freespeech.org/watch-live/

[BumRushDaShow]

70. MOO MOO just f'd up

forgetting that Williams is on TuPence's staff - trying to determine if she had accessed someone else's computer and/or talked to someone outside of the NSC (she's not on the NSC).

[BumRushDaShow]

71. Schiff is cutting off MOO MOO regarding the whistleblower outing.

[Botany]

72. Williams, "Just to clarify that I was in the office of the Vice President not the NSC."

Devin!

[Hermit-The-Prog]

74. Cowpile Nunes is despiccable

[BumRushDaShow]

75. Vindman invoking his lawyer's demand not to invoke names of intelligence.

[madaboutharry]

76. Lt. Col. Vindman just corrected Nunes and reminded

him to address him as "Lt. Col."

[Kali]

84. heehee

that was good

[BumRushDaShow]

91. I thought that is what he did

(and he was huffy about it too! )

[catbyte]

77. Mooman should turn this over to Castor. He's NOT doing a good job.

Full disclosure: I can't listen to mooman, so I have closed captioning on so I might be missing nuance, but he's embarrassing himself, his district, and America. As usual.

[BumRushDaShow]

78. MOO MOO's cowpies cut off at the pass. Now Castor Oil is up.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

79. Get Off The Whistleblower Crap, Moo-nes!

[calimary]

102. Indeed!

[Bayard]

80. Why is Nunez asking about if the witnesses talked to the press?

Schiff just broke in to warn--don't use your time to try to out the Whisteblower. Nunez: Whine, whine, whine.

[Mersky]

81. Schiff: "These proceedings will not be used to out the whistleblower."

[crickets]

87. +1

[catbyte]

82. Again, if hearsay is worthless, why insist on deposing the whistleblower for any reason other than

retribution and witness intimidation?

[polichick]

83. Can't wait for Justice to arrive at Nunes' door.

[calimary]

103. It sure is taking a long time.

[polichick]

140. Hopefully getting all its Russian ducks in a row.

[Glimmer of Hope]

85. What difference does it make! The WB identity just doesn't matter. Idiot.

[Roland99]

86. Castor is being VERY disingenuous and VERY condescending and dismissive

is this guy on the bar?

[pangaia]

95. He is ON the bar but sure as hell not a member...

[Roland99]

112. he probably wants to be on Barr....

[crickets]

89. Vindman's counsel *schools* Nunes on asking questions re WB

Points out his client is following the rules. Correct implication being Nunes is not. Burn.

[ancianita]

122. Indeed. He was very good. More than clear.

[madaboutharry]

92. Castor doing an Eddie Haskel imitation.

He is a very bad actor.

[gademocrat7]

96. Castor is indeed a very bad actor

And he is not a competent attorney.

[BumRushDaShow]

93. Castor working over Williams about why wasn't TuPence notified about the Zelensky's concerns

[demmiblue]

94. VINDMAN: "Ranking member, it's Lieutenant Colonel Vindman, please."

Link to tweet

[BumRushDaShow]

97. All Castor is asking about are the corrupt Ukrainians that Drumpf has embraced

[pangaia]

98. Mr. Counsel,Esq. is like a TV actor....

I have only been a jury in 2 trials in my life. Both serious cases. Two of the lawyers were clearly highly skilled. The other two just stupid self-impressed shits... It was so obvious, that it was difficult sometimes not to break out in laughter.

[Imperialism Inc.]

99. I'm several minutes behind live , but that whistleblower exchange was strange.

It looked kind of bad. He doesn't know who the whistleblower is but won't give a name because it would out the whstleblower. That seems weird. Explain it to me.

[spooky3]

115. Nunes wanted him to name the specific agency where

the wber worked. Lt Col knew that but didn’t want to reveal it and his lawyer and Schiff stepped in.

[Sunsky]

130. Not weird at all

He doesn't personally know who blew the whistle but he may have spoken to the whistleblower. Example, he spoke with persons ABCDE. Person C is the whistleblower but he doesn't know that, however if he or anyone who was a part of the call starts naming who they spoke with, the repugs or he MSM would try to interview all those names given and by process of elimination, the whistleblower's identity could be revealed. He may not even have spoken to the whistleblower. However, naming names sets a bad precedent and can lead to the revelation of the whistleblower, because someone who knew about that call told the whistleblower.

[Whiskeytide]

144. I think what it may mean is that ...

... Vindman doesn’t officially know who the whistleblower is, but he reported what he knew to people in the IC, and one of them may well have been the WB. If he lists who he spoke to, it would at least narrow the set of candidates. If he only spoke to one person, then that person probably IS the WB - but Vindman can’t really know that for certain, and has been advised not to put that information.

IOW, Vindman probably knows who the WB is, but it’s based on circumstantial suspicions, not direct knowledge.

[BumRushDaShow]

101. Now discussing the VP trip planning process that got cancelled.

[crickets]

109. This is long and rambling and pointless. Is Castor just running the clock? nt

[Roland99]

116. Indubitably

Completely pointless.

Meant to make viewers tune out?


I mean...this has ZERO evidentiary purpose for EITHER side!

[BumRushDaShow]

104. Ha!

She refused to play the motivation game. CYA.

[BumRushDaShow]

105. Discussing Bolton

[BumRushDaShow]

106. Now talking about Ghouliani - Vindman following both U.S. & Ukrainian press

[kentuck]

107. The Counsel for Repubs is talking about everything and everybody except Trump?

No mention of Trump's intentions towards Ukraine or for his own political purposes?

[crickets]

113. Shhh. Never question the intentions and motives of Fearless Leader. nt

[BumRushDaShow]

108. Castor don't like his answer about "3 elements"

Biden, Burisma, 2016 election!

(all omitted from the truncated transcript)

[BumRushDaShow]

114. Vindman was offered "Defense Minister" position in Ukraine "3 times"

and he said he reported these offers to his chain of command.

[Roland99]

118. He's as clean-cut as they come!

[BumRushDaShow]

121. The counsel is trying to suggest that he may not be loyal to the U.S.

[Politicub]

126. I had no idea that Americans are routinely asked to

take leadership roles in foreign governments.

[Beringia]

117. Where is Jim Jordan

[spooky3]

120. The rest of the clowns get their five minutes later today. Nt

[Beringia]

132. Thanks

[Karma13612]

123. He'll get to speak when they

Go to the 5 minute block portion of the hearing.

[Beringia]

129. Thanks, because he normally sits next to Castor

[BumRushDaShow]

119. Castor Oil trying to impugn the witness regarding these "offers"

of "Defense Minister".

[Mersky]

127. And two other embassy staff were present for at least one of these

David Holmes and Keith Bean.

Vindman called the suggestion comical, knew of a an Air Force member taking another high rank position in another young democracy, but that he, Vindman, is American,...and never took the offers seriously.

Vindman is coming across as down to earth, sincere, and candid.

[BumRushDaShow]

136. He knew what they were trying to suggest

and he just introduced another person to the mix (although he initially hesitated and looked at his lawyer before uttering Bean's name).

[Mersky]

137. Yep, but by golly, he pulled that name on the spot

And provided corroborating witnesses to dash castor’s insinuations!

Vindman is sharp, and knows he witnessed wrong doing.

[crickets]

128. I loved his response.

"I'm an American. I came here when I was a toddler, and I immediately dismissed these offers... The whole notion is rather comical... I did not leave the door open at all."

Pointed out modestly that at his rank, he felt that he was not senior enough to be offered such an illustrious position.

Vindman is just stellar.

[Mersky]

134. Demurring and good-natured response

Thanks for capturing it, crickets!

[spooky3]

141. He was so nervous at first; the papers in his hands were

shaking. I am glad he has gotten more comfortable.

He would be a terrible poker player. He can barely mask his disdain for the immoral idiots’ questions, but looks confident when Dems ask questions.

[IcyPeas]

135. re David Holmes...

he's "a delightful fellow" said Vindman with a smile

[BumRushDaShow]

124. ***IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY HEARING NOV 19 THREAD 3*** is up

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212703544