***IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY HEARING NOV 20 THREAD 5***

[crickets]

Other streams: https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212688024#post9

NYT Live Updates: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/20/us/politics/impeachment-hearings.html
Global News Canada Live: https://globalnews.ca/news/6189777/live-trump-impeachment-hearings-sondland-day-4/
Wonkette Live: https://www.wonkette.com/the-gordon-problem-impeachment-liveblog-day-four

[Roland99]

1. Whoa!!! Castor was pissed just now at Sondland

Upset that GS intimating that the ask/condition came from trump despite him not saying it directly

[polichick]

3. Pin him down Schiff!

[BumRushDaShow]

4. CASTOR DONE. Schiff is now going to do 2 periods of 30-minute rounds before the 5 minute questions.

[BumRushDaShow]

5. Schiff is correcting the bullshit about "drug deal"

that had nothing to do with Fiona Hill and had nothing to do with a literal "drug deal".

[ancianita]

6. Crickets, you are the best! Thank you!

[brooklynite]

7. Adam Schiff now trying to reel Mick Mulvaney into the conspiracy

...and Ambassador Sondland accomodates.

[Midnightwalk]

13. Yep this is all illegal isn't it

If we ever get an honest attorney general these people are screwed. Unless pardoned.

[BumRushDaShow]

8. Schiff brought up Mulvaney's press conference that arrogantly announced the quid pro quo

[crickets]

12. Good. They need to bring that up over and over again. nt

[BumRushDaShow]

9. Goldman (House Committee Dem counsel) is up

[Mersky]

10. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you! Chairman Schiff

For directly addressing that "cooking up a drug deal" is the figurative language coined by bolton!

[flamingdem]

11. Goldman closes in on Pompeo via

his assistant who was on the email chain from Sondland

[crickets]

15. Zoiks at the list of names on the email list

Robert Blair
Lisa Kenna
Brian McCormack
Mick Mulvaney
Rick Perry
Mike Pompeo
Gordon Sondland

[Mersky]

21. Thank you! nt

[BumRushDaShow]

14. Sondland just threw another whole group of people under the bus

[Pacifist Patriot]

19. Shoot! I had to go into a staff meeting. Who?

[BumRushDaShow]

23. There were a pile of people on an email that he sent

that included Perry and some of his staff and a couple others (I think it may have been part of the exhibits with his statement - checking right now)...

EDIT (from the email included as an exhibit with his opening statement) these folks - Robert Blair, Lisa Kenna, Brian McCormack, Mick Mulvaney, Rick Perry, Mike Pompeo

(from here: https://www.justsecurity.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/ukraine-clearinghouse-Opening-Statement-of-Ambassador-Gordon-november-20-2019.pdf)

[Pacifist Patriot]

24. Oh my!

[BumRushDaShow]

28. Just updated with the names!

[Pacifist Patriot]

63. Thanks!

[Roland99]

37. Ugh. Where's Bill Barr??

[crazytown]

85. ' Sondland just threw another whole group of people under the bus'

More like buses, lots of buses.

[Midnightwalk]

16. Are they key witnesses? Yes

Obstruction.

[C_U_L8R]

17. Oh man, the bus keeps rolling back and forth

These trumpstains are getting flattened. The whole corrupt bunch.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

18. OMG Vizzini ...

Siwsan has uncovered Sondland's secret identity:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212709391

[crickets]

22. Ha, good one. I can never unsee that now. nt

[BumRushDaShow]

40. LOL!

[Siwsan]

111. I have my moments!

[Hermit-The-Prog]

114. it's great. something kept nagging me -- where have I seen him before?

You nailed it!

[backtoblue]

20. Kick

Soooo much more to this.

[Politicub]

25. Trump's handwritten notes from this morning (real)

Link to tweet

[polichick]

30. A very stunted personality - I'd feel sorry if not for the destruction he brings.

[nolabear]

32. He has to remind himself of those things?

You’d think even he could retain “I want no quid pro quo...”

[Politicub]

36. Is it bizarre? He just had to remember them from the door to the helicopter.

[bdamomma]

59. Thats why he

is Adderall, for his ADHD.

[bdamomma]

34. Like a

freaking 2 yr old. Just keep on repeating and repeating huh??

[Mersky]

42. Whoa. When was that written?

How could that possibly be useful at a helicopter shout session? Enter that into the record?

I am so annoyed with his sharpie method. Devious prick that he is.

[hibbing]

82. Oh lord.......n/t

[hlthe2b]

26. tweet of the day: "When is the Bronco arriving at the White House?"

Link to tweet

Yeah, I know 5 parts wishful thinking and 5 parts high anticipation but...

[Wawannabe]

58. Memories!

Oh man! Spot on!

[crickets]

27. The statement details were nailed down by email on AUG 11 w/Yermak

What it had to say, when it would say it.

The statement was not dropped for being a bad idea as Sondland tried to say earlier. It got dropped when the whistle blew the next day, AUG 12.

Whew.

[mucifer]

31. Goldman's composure and body language vs Castor's

[BumRushDaShow]

33. Castor continually looks like this-

[Mersky]

35. "Issues of importance to pOTUS"

In Sondland's communication to pompeo over the Warsaw meeting, Sondland used 'issues of importance...' to mean "2016 and investigations into Burisma."

[bdamomma]

38. Just stopped in

looks like Sondland is throwing everyone under the bus.

[nolabear]

39. Oooooooh yeah. It's a Greyhound-a-Rama!

[crickets]

43. Pretty much!

Current questioning is pretty grindy, but the beginning- wow.
You can read his opening statement, but watching it is even better.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/trump-impeachment-inquiry/read-gordon-sondland-s-explosive-opening-statement-impeachment-hearing-n1086621

[BumRushDaShow]

41. Schiff back to questioning

[Raven123]

44. Sondland has selective amnesia

[BumRushDaShow]

45. MOO MOO UP - MUTE ALERT

[Roland99]

46. MOOnes up. Gonna harp on the no direct quote from trump re: quid pro quo

But we all know, and Sondland has already testified, that there WAS a quid pro quo

And who was holding up the aid? Giuliani? No. Trump

[mucifer]

49. yeah unfortunately he testified in a way that opens things up for spin

[The_Counsel]

83. The Thing Is Guilliani Doesn't Sign Off on that Aid...

...Trump does. And he wasn't signing nothing--even though the Congress had already authorized it--until he got what he wanted. That's why he's in the trouble he's in.

The President is plenty powerful, yes, but not THAT powerful. That's what Trump didn't/doesn't get.

[bdamomma]

47. So what was that

exchange between Sondland and Schiff so did he say there was no this for that?

Sondland seems weird huh??? Kind of cocky too.

[Roland99]

51. Sondland's whole point is he wasn't directly told by trump to put conditions on the ask and the aid

Yet it was sondlands understanding that there was a quid pro quo as made clear by other conversations and emails and texts

[bdamomma]

53. So is he

trying to keep himself out of the fray???

[Roland99]

55. Yes. And he's probably being technically factual but still a bit obtuse

[Roland99]

48. MOOnes ranting about Dems fantasy of watergate and Sondland wanting addl documents

[BumRushDaShow]

50. MOO COW talking about "Watergate fantasies" and he was a year old when Watergate happened

shitting diapers.

[JHB]

65. It's more projection...

...of the Republicans' "revenge for Watergate" fantasies when they went after Bill Clinton.

[BumRushDaShow]

77. But he sounds silly.

[JHB]

86. So did they, but they did it anyway.

These are not mutually incompatible things.

[BumRushDaShow]

93. Yup

but the irony here is that he was a toddler when Watergate happened and that makes him look more like a simpleton.

[Roland99]

52. MOOnes on a tangent that Germany wasn't helping Ukraine

Per July 25 call

But that’s a lie

https://www.factcheck.org/2019/09/trump-wrong-on-european-aid-to-ukraine/

President Donald Trump wrongly said that “Europe and other nations” were “not” contributing to Ukraine, specifically calling for Germany and France to “put up money.” In fact, the European Union and European financial institutions have contributed more than $16.4 billion in grants and loans to Ukraine since 2014.

European countries have contributed an estimated two-thirds of all of the aid to Ukraine since Russia annexed Crimea in 2014 and launched a conflict in the Donbas region in eastern Ukraine, according to Iain King, a visiting fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

[ancianita]

61. Yep. That's way more than was on the line with this bribe.

[Botany]

62. Germany?

Good God in Butter.

WTF?

Btw if Castor was my lawyer I would hope I would not get the chair for jay walking. He is really bad.

[Roland99]

54. MOOness bingo card players. Cover up Steele Dossier now too

[Roland99]

56. And cover up "magical minutes"

[BumRushDaShow]

57. Castor up

[nolabear]

64. Poor Rudy...😂

[crazytown]

88. Rusy Rudy Rudy

[Roland99]

60. Castor up. Says he won't use up all minutes as a courtesy

IOW, he doesn’t know wtf else to do

[crickets]

66. Looks like he figures a few minutes driving the bus over Rudy is time well spent. nt

[bdamomma]

73. So what are

the key damaging factors/testimony from Sondland, is he showing his support for don the con?

[Roland99]

78. He's testified there WAS a quid pro quo

But it was something he presumed or understood based upon a totality of meetings, phone calls, texts, etc but not something that came directly from trump in explicit terms

[bdamomma]

127. So what does that mean for us???

sorry for all my questions. Just trying to keep updated.

[Roland99]

129. Boils down to interpretation I guess

But added in with others’ testimony it paints a rather clear picture of intent

[bdamomma]

130. hmm....

interesting, thanks for the clarification.

[The_Counsel]

67. What in the Actual FUCK Is Nunes Even Talking About???

Did he actually say that obstruction is not a crime???

Is he aware that the "whistleblower" law is older than the Constitution itself??

Is he aware that when a crime is committed it's not necessary to find out "who snitched?" I mean...SERIOUSLY, DEVIN??? We can't prosecute this crime because we don't know who dialed 911???

GOD, what an idiot...!!!

[Midnightwalk]

68. Moones regrets no chance for witness to align

Now he conflates the closed meetings with the white house not releasing evidence.

This isn’t the trial. The suspect can’t obstruct. The investigation doesn’t have to tell witnesses what other witnesses said.

What an idjut

[Mersky]

69. Cosplay cow in a Scarface suit was trying to say

(I think) that holding up Congressional funds is foreign policy and not the self dealing bribery rising to extortion that it looks like. That diplomats exist to carrying out such crimes because my pin stripes say so.

Not sure, so much mooing; occasional cowbell.

[Roland99]

71. Cowsplay?

[blaze]

75. LOL

[Mersky]

79. Yes. It's all cowsplay to him.

Good one!

[Roland99]

70. Wait. Castor maybe throwing Rudy under the bus too?!

Mentioning he has business interests in Ukraine and bringing up Parnas and Fruman

[MerryBlooms]

74. Hell with the bus, he just tossed him into the lion's den! Holy crap! n/t

[blaze]

76. Poor Rudy

[mucifer]

72. On mute Castor looks so defeated

[BumRushDaShow]

80. Somebody told him to get "excited" and he briefly did

and then went back to his old self.

[DesertRat]

92. He really does - very anxious

Link to tweet

[nolabear]

81. OMG Sondland is just firing away at everybody.

I’m having such a good time with this. It’s a narcissism clusterfuck.

[mucifer]

84. everyone but trump

[DesertRat]

97. He's having a good time

Link to tweet

[BumRushDaShow]

87. MOO MOO interrupts to talk about the whistleblower

He belongs in prison.

[Midnightwalk]

94. And he doesn't know what quid pro quo means

Bribery is an illegal example of a quid pro quo. Just like nunes is a flaming example of an idiot.

[BumRushDaShow]

104. He actually doesn't care because

IOKIYAR

[C_U_L8R]

89. Trump went on TV and targeted the Bidens

That was the confession right there. All this republican distraction conveniently skates around this fact.

[Roland99]

90. MOOnes whining he needs whistleblower testimony as it would help Sondland

But that ignores that we’ve HAD first hand testimony from others who WERE on the call

[crickets]

91. Mute alert: Nunes tossing out talking points for FOX.

[Mersky]

98. Was basically legal term word salad

Flinging words around without connection to actual meaning in reality.

Extortion bone isn't connected to the quid pro bone type garbage.

[C_U_L8R]

95. Castor asking questions he doesn't know the answer to.

Backfires every time. Hilariously.

[elleng]

100. ALWAYS a mistake, when cross-examining!

(Trial-practice 101!!!)

[crickets]

101. and he's browbeating his own witness!

Counsel had to step in and rap his knuckles to let Sondland finish his answer.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

96. Castor challenging Sondland's credibility. nt

[madaboutharry]

99. Castor making rookie mistakes.

Asking questions without knowing the response is always bad form.

He is whining and appears unprepared.

[Clash City Rocker]

102. Castor sounds like Rick Moranis' character in the courtroom scene in Ghostbusters II

Soooo whiny and desperate.

[JuJuYoshida]

103. imho

The defending arguments are literally, "yeah, Trump totally did it but he never said he was doing it so it's cool and besides the President can do whatever the fuck he wants anyway."

It should give us all pause because they are showing their hand. This is about power and hanging onto it. The Republicans have made this their hill to die on.

[Roland99]

108. Yeah...that's about it...the mob talk. *wink* *wink* "do what's right"

[Mersky]

110. Yeah. It's gross. And outside the spirit of the Constitution.

Tramples all over the separation of powers, among other things. Good grief. That wasn’t his money for bribing a foreign country.

[dweller]

105. LUNCH !!

✌🏼

[Roland99]

106. Lunch Break

Sondland counsel stating he wanted to fly back to Brussels this evening...could we make a shorter break.

Schiff stating about 2hrs left of questioning.


Sondland can wait

[Hermit-The-Prog]

112. bathroom break -- Sondland had a lot of coffee

[BumRushDaShow]

107. ****30 MINUTE LUNCH BREAK****

Will resume with 5 minute questions.

Sondland's lawyer requested a shorter break so he can take a flight back to Brussels and Schiff pretty much brushed him off but said they would try to move it along when they return and should be no more than 2 hours for the final portion.

[crickets]

109. Cooper and Hale were scheduled for 2:30

This afternoon's schedule sounds like it's a bit more fluid than originally intended.

[mucifer]

113. The PBS commentary is not that optimistic for our side. They are doing the "both sides

have different interpretations and Americans will be confused

[Hermit-The-Prog]

115. PBS has been pretzeling itself since 2015, at least

[crickets]

116. It's a shame to see PBS of all channels engaging in bothsiderism. That's too bad. nt

[elleng]

120. They're not, they're being as clear as possible.

[crickets]

123. Oh, I misunderstood. Good to know! nt

[elleng]

125. Thanks. PBS is my go-to news station,

watch Newshour before msnbc every evening, and like them a lot. Judy Woodruff takes no crap from anyone (politely, of course.)

[elleng]

118. Not right now,

rather, clarifying for watching public (as they should do.)

'Now clear Dems think they'll benefit. Schiff giving nooones etc more time, and discussing what sondland knew. . .'

[mucifer]

121. good to hear. I turned it off out of frustration

[crickets]

117. MSNBC making the point that Trump's habit of communicating orders

through intermediaries is exactly how things are done in organized crime circles. They have just obliquely called our president a mob boss. eta- and I have no problem with that.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

119. The Dumbest Don tried to create his own crew

He desperately wants to be on the same mobster level as his daddy Vladdy, MbS, Erdogan, and Li'l Kim.

[polichick]

126. Like Cohen said on the stand.

[crickets]

122. New thread up #6

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212710029

[BumRushDaShow]

124. Sondland back in the room

[malaise]

128. Start a ew thread - hearings about to resume n/t