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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDid you hear us liberals want to change the name of thanksgiving according to MF45?
He had one of his insane rallies in Florida and said:
He charged liberals want to declare a war on Thanksgiving 'Some people want to change the name Thanksgiving
They don't want to use the term Thanksgiving,' he said but offered no proof of his charge
'We're not changing it,' he said
I have not heard of anyone on DU or any liberal sites saying this. This clown is totally insane and needs to be removed by the 25th or impeachment immediately.
Kaleva
(36,298 posts)Kingofalldems
(38,456 posts)Kaleva
(36,298 posts)"We need to begin phasing our traditional Thanksgiving dinner the hell out!
How? I don't know...but this link is a beginning...
Spread it around...... So disturbing that we as a nation pay so little attention to the facts depicted on this link. "
Providing a link could be construed as an attack on a fellow DUers.
Kingofalldems
(38,456 posts)Kaleva
(36,298 posts)"Why We Shouldn't Celebrate Thanksgiving
--- time for an oldie but goodie from Robert Jensen
In response to the argument that people can celebrate TG without endorsing genocide, bec. they are taking the opportunity to gather with friends and family, Jensen says:
"The argument that we can ignore the collective cultural definition of Thanksgiving and create our own meaning in private has always struck me as odd. This commitment to Thanksgiving puts these left/radical critics in the position of internalizing one of the central messages promoted by the ideologues of capitalism -- that individual behavior in private is more important than collective action in public. The claim that through private action we can create our own reality is one of the key tenets of a predatory corporate capitalism that naturalizes unjust hierarchy, a part of the overall project of discouraging political struggle and encouraging us to retreat into a private realm where life is defined by consumption.""
"Genocide of 100 million Native Americans and True Meaning of Thanksgiving
Jay Winter Nightwolf explains the True Meaning of Thanksgiving. THE SLAUGHTER OF 700 MEN WOMEN AND CHILDREN OF THE PEQUOT INDIANS. AFTER THE SLAUGHTER, THE GOVERNOR OF THE BAY COLONY DECLARED IT A DAY OF THANKSGIVING. THANKING GOD FOR THE MASSACRE. "
"With this in mind and with Thanksgiving once again upon us, it behooves all Americans of good will to take the time to reflect on your real history, to teach this to your children, and to stop celebrating this mythical holiday that represents so dark a period in the history of this country. Leave that poor turkey in peace, and join in observing a No Thanksgiving/Day of Sorrow."
PatrickforO
(14,573 posts)all of my blessings in life with my family. Sorry.
Back in the 90s and oughts, there was a movement in academia to ignore anything 'old white guys' said as being irrelevant to the modern day.
Problem is that if we take that tack, and get rid of everything, both what good is in this culture, and what has been evil, then what do we have?
I know. We have Vladimir Putin pulling Donald Trump's strings, and trying to consolidate whites into a new order. And we have a bunch of Russian (and American oligarchs), billionaire parasites all, who are systematically undermining what little democracy we had left, and whose aim is to subjugate all of us so they can have more power, more wealth.
Right now, this country is poised on a precipice. Now, some of the Republicans, who secretly work for Putin (I KNOW McConnell does, and Nunes), are working feverishly to assist in undermining the republic. And, of course, you have the capitalists who are willing to sell us all out (cut wages and benefits, gobble up pensions, bust unions, produce overpriced, unsafe products, foul the environment, and speculate on Wall Street) just so they can smirk and say they've done 'right' by shareholders.
Yeah, we have to get our shit together and get rid of these Russian shills. We have to get dark money corruption out of DC. End gerrymandering, ensure everyone who wants to vote can and does vote. We have to begin taking aggressive steps to mitigate climate change, and work to fashion a sustainable economic development model that will help people like the coal miners who have been displaced in a dying industry retool and actually get decent jobs paying decent wages with decent benefits. We have to rebuild the infrastructure. We have to figure out how to reorganize around human need, and begin planning forward as a species. We need to do better with our food supply system, and our nutrition. And we need to treat our domestic animals much, much more humanely.
All that.
But I'm not getting rid of Thanksgiving, because the holiday, the celebration of gratitude, is ancient - far more ancient than a few Protestant fanatics in the 1600s. I will be celebrating this gratitude with my family on Thursday this week.
Kaleva
(36,298 posts)Kaleva
(36,298 posts)"Thanksgiving - *Sigh*
I have no known Native ancestry.
After I read "An Indigenous Peoples' History of the United States" I had sworn off Thanksgiving.
I would like to hear from those that are Indigenous how they feel about the holiday.
Thank in advance... "
"Thanksgiving is the anniversary of a Native massacre, a celebration of genocide."
"And then, the Pilgrims killed the Wampanoag - who took pity on them and saved their lives - in order to take their land.
Have I got that right? Is that what we're celebrating?
Personally, I'd rather celebrate the Wampanoag."
" Because celebrating Native American genocide is of paramount concern to all Americans.
Another bogus holiday rewriting the American history of centuries of genocide. Fuck Thanksgiving and the Pilgrim Indian killers. "
Kingofalldems
(38,456 posts)Kaleva
(36,298 posts)Do a site search on Thanksgiving and Genocide and you can come up with a bunch more.
trueblue2007
(17,218 posts)Kaleva
(36,298 posts)Kingofalldems
(38,456 posts)So you are agreeing with Trump?
Kaleva
(36,298 posts)DENVERPOPS
(8,820 posts)"Columbus Day".
Silver1
(721 posts)We didn't know what to do. So we ate the dinner ... thankful for our graces ... and we are.
And, honestly, I'm so friggen horrified I don't know how to celebrate this holiday because I really do want to express gratitude and recognize what happened to the Native Americans.
PatrickforO
(14,573 posts)feelings of gratitude actually boost one's immune system, and generally improve physical and mental health. You don't even need to believe in a God, really, to feel gratitude. One can just as well feel gratitude for the moment, for all the things that have fallen into place for them. For their family and the love they hold for them. For their pets, and the fast and steady friendship and love offered by those furry members of our families.
I mean, if you aren't homeless, starving, dying of some disease, and have a job and your health, what on earth is wrong with feeling grateful, otherwise known as feeling a sense of Thanksgiving?
Yeah, in elementary school they tell you it was the stupid Pilgrims sitting with the Native Americans (who saved their bacon by giving them maize), and we all know what the Protestant Ethic did to us, and what we did to the Native Americans.
Sure.
But here's the real thing: since the dim past, when humans first began practicing agriculture, and perhaps even before, when we lived in small tribal societies scattered around the Ice Age glaciers across vast distances, there have been ceremonies of thanksgiving.
Originally it was a celebration of thanks when the last of the harvest was in. When the hunts were over for the winter and there was enough food stored for the tribe to last the winter. And so there was a ceremony. Perhaps to honor Gaia, the Earth Mother, and later to honor her by other names - Madron, Demeter, Isis, Ceres, Min, Marduk, Chung Chui, and many others.
But, whether you believe in a creative force, a God, or nothing, you can still feel gratitude for your life, the people in it, and the comforts you have. The Pilgrims were nowhere; gratitude is everywhere. In the clouds, the sky, the sun, the rain. In oceans, and in all the life on this planet. It is joy of life, nothing less.
DEbluedude
(816 posts)Over the years, I have found that "an attitude of gratitude" helps me to put things that happen in my life in perspective. For me a great coping tool.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Substantive premises are not based on anomalies, and it should be more than obvious to even the most closed of minds that Trump is simply arguing a point no one of note is making just to have something to argue against to sound clever.
That may sound familiar...
rurallib
(62,414 posts)pretty soon he'll want to rename Flag Day to Trump's Birthday!
Journeyman
(15,031 posts)Officially, it isn't a holiday until the President issues the annual Proclamation decreeing it and setting forth the reasons for it's observance. It's been that way since Mr Lincoln declared the first observance in 1863.
(see my post #6 below)
onenote
(42,702 posts)33taw
(2,442 posts)LakeArenal
(28,817 posts)Norbert
(6,039 posts)Damn, this is getting a little complicated.
Journeyman
(15,031 posts)so for the name to change it could only be modified by virtue of the authority of the Chief Executive when issuing the annual pronouncement.
The 2019 Proclamation should be available now, for those who wish to find it. Taken from the 2018 decree (I'm too lazy and too disinterested to find this year's Proclamation), the pertinent paragraph -- which establishes the name -- is:
NOW, THEREFORE, I, DONALD J. TRUMP, President of the United States of America, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of the United States, do hereby proclaim Thursday, November 22, 2018, as a National Day of Thanksgiving. I encourage all Americans to gather, in homes and places of worship, to offer a prayer of thanks to God for our many blessings.
onenote
(42,702 posts)And Thanksgiving isn't the only statutorily designated federal holiday that is the subject of an annual "Proclamation":
https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/presidential-proclamation-veterans-day-2019/
https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2016/09/02/presidential-proclamation-labor-day-2016
https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2017/01/13/presidential-proclamation-martin-luther-king-jr-federal-holiday-2017
Thomas Hurt
(13,903 posts)Volaris
(10,270 posts)Is there a choice I can vote on?
getagrip_already
(14,750 posts)Impeachment day?
Emoluments day?
Constitution day?
Freedom from Russia day?
So many choices....
Volaris
(10,270 posts)Nice way to get the fuckers blood pressure back up, dontcha think?
CaptYossarian
(6,448 posts)Binge and Purge Day?
Cold McDonald's burgers sold separately.
stevil
(1,537 posts)The Day Before We Fart a Lot.
Ohiogal
(31,997 posts)Hell make up anything to get his sycophants riled up!
lunasun
(21,646 posts)meant . Maybe its a new group think War on Thanksgiving now you cant say turkey day anymore just like Happy Holidays is voodoo with that crowd
struggle4progress
(118,282 posts)world wide wally
(21,743 posts)klook
(12,154 posts)Were gonna start eating hot dogs instead of turkey!
spanone
(135,831 posts)RockRaven
(14,966 posts)His bullshit is tired and repetitive and unimaginative.
Anyone who finds what Trump has to say interesting is every bit as insane, demented, or otherwise impaired as he is.
Response to kimbutgar (Original post)
smirkymonkey This message was self-deleted by its author.
3catwoman3
(23,983 posts)...expanded, depending on how you choose to think of it. I try to restrict my use of various form of the F word to times when I am alone at home or in my car. It escapes my husbands lips fairly often of late.
Nothing else seems to suffice when discussing Trump, and his drooling worshippers.
maxrandb
(15,330 posts)progressoid
(49,990 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(49,001 posts)This explains how the Russians work and are subtle.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/russia-troll-2020-election-interference-twitter-916482/
2naSalit
(86,604 posts)Takket
(21,565 posts)keep people riled up about stupid shit that actually has NO effect on their lives while you do actual TERRIBLE shit that ruins their lives, and no one talks about it.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)Does that make me a liberal? I always considered myself more of a Labor Democrat, but whatever.
Marie Marie
(9,999 posts)the name of our President.
BigmanPigman
(51,590 posts)and everything he says or "shlez" (this is how he pronounces the word lately). Oh he is fine health, 100% perfect physical specimen of great health, ask his doctors. Perfect health. Couldn't be healthier. Suuuuuuuuure!
ProfessorGAC
(65,031 posts)Takket
(21,565 posts)Link to tweet
?s=20
I saw the trend "what liberals call thanksgiving" on twitter and i was like, WTF is this? Then found the tweet above. I must have missed the "liberal agenda" meeting when we discussed this, because it is news to me LOL Did you all know about this and didn't tell me????????
mountain grammy
(26,620 posts)Hes a lunatic.
Olafjoy
(937 posts)Bullsh#tsgiving? Cuz thats what he was giving tonight in Florida. Now he goes to Mar a Lago after a hard week pardoning war criminals, awarding a dog a medal, pardoning 🦃🦃incoherently, and praising himself for commissioning the centennial 19th amendment coin because no other administration had done it. Go play golf and please dont do anything else🙏🏻
SergeStorms
(19,201 posts)now THAT will be a freaking holiday!
sprinkleeninow
(20,246 posts)Initech
(100,071 posts)IronLionZion
(45,442 posts)As we engulf the world in darkness.
Here is what liberals want for us:
OhNo-Really
(3,985 posts)wnylib
(21,450 posts)Many Native Americans object to the way the story of Thanksgiving is taught in schools because the traditional story is lop-sided and incomplete.
I have some colonial Puritan ancestry so I have read up on many of their beliefs and customs.
Those Puritans had frequent days of fasting in times of fear and danger in order to demonstrate their penitance to God in the hope of foregiveness and being spared divine punishment.
When things turned out well, they had thanksgiving "parties" to celebrate their good fortune and give thanks to God for it. This could be for good weather after bad or for the end of an illness epidemic, etc.
So they had fasts and thanksgivings more than once a year sometimes. It is also true that some of those thanksgivings were for what they believed was help from God in defeating Native people in wars. Also true that some if those "wars" were slaughters of Native villages - women, children, and old men while younger men and boys were away hunting, fishing, or meeting with allies to discuss war plans.
BUT -- The Thanksgiving (capital T) that we celebrate each year is a harvest festival. We tie it in with the Plymouth story because the harvest feast that the Pilgrims and Native Wampanoags shared was the first one celebrated by white Europeans in North America. It was customary for Brits to celebrate the harvest each year. Native people also had harvest feasts. Contrary to popular misinformation, most Native people in N. America grew a variety of crops that they harvested in autumn. They also prepared meat and wild fruits and nuts for winter. So after helping the Pilgrims survive the first year and teaching them what crops to grow from seeds the Native oeople gave them, the Wampanoag and Pilgrims merged their harvest the second year in one big feast.
The wars and slaughters came later as 20,000 more Brits (Puritans) arrived in MA over the next few decades, crowding Native people and creating conflicts.
I see today's Thanksgiving holiday as a harvet festival, like Oktoberfest in Germany, a custom carried over from Europe.. Most Native people want the whole story told of how they, too, held harvest feasts and how things soured in later years. Some refuse to celebrate the holiday at all since the success of that colonial harvest led to wars, slaughters, and loss of land as the invading colonists expanded.
For several decades states and towns held their own Thanksgiving on separate days. During the Lincoln years the holiday was fixed for everyone on the 4th Thursday of November.
wnylib
(21,450 posts)occurred during periods of wars between colonists and Native people. It was the way the Puritans fought -- attacking unguarded villages rather than fight the warriors. They wanted to horrify the Native people into giving up fighting. A shock and awe tactic. They saw themselves as the "new covenant" conquering N. America like the ancient Hebrews conquered Canaan. There is, in fact, a town in CT called New Canaan.
Initech
(100,071 posts)He must be smoking the bad covfefe again!
ecstatic
(32,703 posts)He's such a freaking troll!
HeavyHemi
(17 posts)Donald being upset he could not pardon Turkey...I mean, he did not realize until he walked out, he wasn't pardoning Turkey, the country.
Captain Zero
(6,805 posts)I am still calling it Thanksgiving.
stopbush
(24,396 posts)to whatever day tRump leaves office.
KY_EnviroGuy
(14,490 posts)We'll have an Airing of Complaints and describe all our Feats of Weakness.
Pairs perfectly with Festivus in December.
KY........
VOX
(22,976 posts)What a pantload of bullshit from Public Enema Number 1.
I wish him a plague of locusts in that pile of acrylic fiber that fell on his head from a second-story window.
no_hypocrisy
(46,101 posts)That's right. We Liburals want to change Thanksgiving to Rape of the Indigenous People and the Theft of Their Land Day.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)how's that?
DavidDvorkin
(19,477 posts)lordsummerisle
(4,651 posts)has an entertaining piece on this:
https://www.salon.com/2019/11/27/donald-trumps-desperate-new-lie-is-a-turkey-now-liberals-are-waging-war-on-thanksgiving/
Permanut
(5,604 posts)Can't figure out how he uncovered our sinister plot so fast.
He may have had some help and inside information from Paula White, who has been divinely inspired to reveal that those who oppose Trump are in league with Satan.
DFW
(54,378 posts)After all, where would we be without Kilomètres Deboutish?
Art Buchwald was a satirical journalist pal of my dad's who wrote this column when he was a Paris correspondent in the early 1950s. I knew him, too, but was never an intimate pal like my dad. What a great character he was! If you don't know French, the translations here are deliberately screwed up. If you do know French, you'll laugh your ass off. Art has been gone for quite a few years now, but I know he'd be happy to know that his column explaining Thanksgiving to the French is alive and well in the memory of his many friends and fans:
_____________________________________________
This confidential column was leaked to me by a high government official in the Plymouth colony on the condition that I not reveal his name.
One of our most important holidays is Thanksgiving Day, known in France as le Jour de Merci Donnant.
Le Jour de Merci Donnant was first started by a group of Pilgrims (Pèlerins) who fled from lAngleterre before the McCarran Act to found a colony in the New World (le Nouveau Monde) where they could shoot Indians (les Peaux-Rouges) and eat turkey (dinde) to their hearts content.
They landed at a place called Plymouth (now a famous voiture Americaine ) in a wooden sailing ship called the Mayflower (or Fleur de Mai ) in 1620. But while the Pèlerins were killing the dindes, the Peaux-Rouges were killing the Pèlerins, and there were several hard winters ahead for both of them. The only way the Peaux-Rouges helped the Pèlerins was when they taught them to grow corn (mais). The reason they did this was because they liked corn with their Pèlerins.
In 1623, after another harsh year, the Pèlerins crops were so good that they decided to have a celebration and give thanks because more mais was raised by the Pèlerins than Pèlerins were killed by Peaux-Rouges.
Every year on the Jour de Merci Donnant, parents tell their children an amusing story about the first celebration.
It concerns a brave capitaine named Miles Standish (known in France as Kilomètres Deboutish) and a young, shy lieutenant named Jean Alden. Both of them were in love with a flower of Plymouth called Priscilla Mullens (no translation). The vieux capitaine said to the jeune lieutenant :
Go to the damsel Priscilla ( allez tres vite chez Priscilla), the loveliest maiden of Plymouth ( la plus jolie demoiselle de Plymouth). Say that a blunt old captain, a man not of words but of action (un vieux Fanfan la Tulipe), offers his hand and his heart, the hand and heart of a soldier. Not in these words, you know, but this, in short, is my meaning.
I am a maker of war (je suis un fabricant de la guerre) and not a maker of phrases. You, bred as a scholar (vous, qui êtes pain comme un étudiant), can say it in elegant language, such as you read in your books of the pleadings and wooings of lovers, such as you think best adapted to win the heart of the maiden.
Although Jean was fit to be tied (convenable à être emballé), friendship prevailed over love and he went to his duty. But instead of using elegant language, he blurted out his mission. Priscilla was muted with amazement and sorrow (rendue muette par létonnement et la tristesse).
At length she exclaimed, interrupting the ominous silence: If the great captain of Plymouth is so very eager to wed me, why does he not come himself and take the trouble to woo me? (Où est-il, le vieux Kilomètres? Pourquoi ne vient-il pas auprès de moi pour tenter sa chance?)
Jean said that Kilomètres Deboutish was very busy and didnt have time for those things. He staggered on, telling what a wonderful husband Kilomètres would make. Finally Priscilla arched her eyebrows and said in a tremulous voice, Why dont you speak for yourself, Jean? (Chacun à son goût.)
And so, on the fourth Thursday in November, American families sit down at a large table brimming with tasty dishes and, for the only time during the year, eat better than the French do.
No one can deny that le Jour de Merci Donnant is a grande fête and no matter how well fed American families are, they never forget to give thanks to Kilomètres Deboutish, who made this great day possible.
------------------------------------------------
"Debout" means either "upright," "up (as in having gotten up in the morning)," or just "standing up." In France, they don't measure distances in miles, but rather in kilometers. Therefore, translating the name "Miles Standish" into "Kilomètres Deboutish" is total farce, but typical Art Buchwald.