Has anyone else ever noticed this trend that I see in my state?

[redstatebluegirl]

The republicans won't raise income taxes, but they are ok with raising any fees, like license fees, hunting, professional and others. They are also ok with property taxes going up because the state won't fund schools. That way they can go ahead and say they have never raised "taxes". Every time we have to do anything that requires some type of fee, it is higher than it was before.

They are crazy, they assume the masses are asses and I think we are.

[Chemisse]

1. New Hampshire has done that for decades.

No sales tax and no income tax, but all the fees and the property taxes are constantly being jacked up.

[matt819]

42. And it's a killer.

Property taxes are sky high. Vehicle registration ditto. I don’t hunt, but those fees I think also go up.

[Mopar151]

60. The "Rackets State"

We got the numbers, 2 Powahballs, keno, scratches, sports books coming soon. An' we got likka and wine, right on the Interstate.
Oh,by the way; we pull 9% off a every food joint inna state, and every flop.

[TheFarseer]

62. Property taxes

All the corporations can move to Delaware if they think taxes are too high, but try moving farm land to Delaware. I’ve never been able to do it . . .

[Chemisse]

76. And the services are bare bones.

Particularly hard hit are the schools, which are almost completely funded by town property taxpayers. It sure makes for rancorous school district meetings.

[Wounded Bear]

2. It's a Reaganite tradition...

shift away from taxes and enact more "user fees." At first blush, it sounds fair, but generally it ends up being cost shifting onto the backs of the poor.

[redstatebluegirl]

3. Yes, our sales tax is so high it has to be impacting the poor.

[DBoon]

10. This is the philosophy of privatized government

This philosophy sees the government as a provider of services with fees paid by the user of services.

There is no common good here, there is no notion of governance, of leading society towards justice and a greater good.

It is an impoverished idea of society as atomized consumers, with government as just another vending machine.

[Wounded Bear]

18. That's a huge part of it, for sure...nt

[certainot]

29. sold every day from 1500 radio stations

[wnylib]

40. Very true. Reduce taxes for the wealthy. Let

public services like schools, police, fire, libraries, etc fall short of funds. Charge fees for things formerly paid for by taxes.

In other words, bring back feudalism.

Every tax reduction for the 1% raises the cost of living.for the 99ers.

[The Wizard]

69. Reagan tabbed them as

revenue enhancements

[JHB]

4. Yes. It's been pretty standard since Reagan.

[TruckFump]

5. Oh, yeah...

...let's talk about California auto tags!!!!

[SMC22307]

6. It's rampant in NC. (n/t)

[CentralMass]

7. It is regressive taxation.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

22. Exactly. . . . nt

[KPN]

27. THIS!

It's pay to play ... and only those who can pay get to play. All the rest, be damned ... slackers! It's exactly the thinking behind "the best government money can buy". Same goes for American Health Care -- the best health care money can buy! And toll roads! They are doing it to National Parks now under tRump -- not that they haven't already.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

38. yep. it shifts costs to those who can least afford to pay.

Taxes based on a percentage of income are progressive; those who use public goods the most (extract the most from the system), and who can most easily afford them, pay more.

[CousinIT]

8. Yep. Absolutely. n/t

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

9. Generally speaking,

a state with no income tax will have much higher taxes in other areas. The money has to come from somewhere. And those taxes tend to be highly regressive.

[redstatebluegirl]

11. We have an income tax, they just won't raise it or change it so the rich have to pay their share.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

24. Right. I got that and therefore my post

seemed as if I hadn't read your OP correctly. My bad.

In any case, it's clear that not wanting to raise the income tax but raising fees and the like is both very regressive and a way of getting higher income people off the hook.

[raccoon]

63. Amen! Nt

[Rebl2]

12. It's happened

in MO too. Dems need to start calling them out on this. Call it what it is-taxation and bring it up many times so people don’t forget.

[Raftergirl]

13. People also

never seem to understand that when fed taxes are cut and less fed money is given to states - states have to raise their taxes (or enact more and higher user fees) to make up for the deficits. Block grants to states will also do the same thing as the grants never increase.

[brutus smith]

14. Sounds like Ohio.

The rednecks are to dumb to realize that fees are taxes. Then of course the lottery, the poor man's tax.

[True Blue American]

31. Kasich,especially

Cut School funding so bad his Republican Legislature put it back. To fund his friends Charter Schools.

Sherrod Brown.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/11/28/1900498/-Sen-Sherrod-Brown-sums-up-how-he-won-Ohio-back-without-compromising-his-progressive-values

[Ohiogal]

37. I was about to post this

You beat me to it!

[True Blue American]

39. I just finished Connie's book

“ And His Lovely Lady.!” I asked for Desk 88, the Librarian said, “ His wife writes,too! I said Connie Schultz? I love her!” She found the book at the Cincinnati Library. DeWine Vs. Sherrod! What a nasty piece of work Mike is, brought in Karl Rove.

[Ohiogal]

45. I read her book when it first came out.

I remember requesting it from the library, and when the librarian handed it over to me, she smirked. Must be a Republican, I thought. (she’s no longer working there).

And who can forget how Kasich crowed about balancing Ohio’s budget by cutting in half the state money given to local municipalities? Which necessitated levies of all kinds to fund schools, police, fire, parks, etc.

DeWine makes me ill. He and his religion zealots gerrymandered their way to power here and are turning Ohio into a third world country. I can’t wait to see them all booted out on their collective asses.

[True Blue American]

54. Mine was very hesitant

To mention Her. When I said I love her in Parade and anywhere else. Then she gave me a big smile,is even tracking down the book about her Father.

Connie writes like I think, she just puts it down, no excuses. Those two are a power house and the blended family with Mikes Ex and her
Husband, Joe.

He really does answer those emails,too. I would love for him to be Governor, clean up this state.

BTW, when I took it back I gave it to a male, said she is so good writes as she thinks. He was looking at it. I said,” “ That is Sherrod Browns wife!” He said, “ I know it is!”

No pussyfooting around for me.

[Ohiogal]

56. Agree with you 100%

[lonely bird]

82. Unfortunately

We still have the POS known as Portman.

[oldsoftie]

83. But the lottery is also a voluntary tax. I'm all for it.

People have the choice to buy a ticket.
Unlike people who are in a home for 40 yrs and the increased value taxes them OUT of it.

[Zorro]

15. Florida vs. California

From my experience, the Florida property tax rate is noticeably higher than the California property tax rate (like ~.4-.5% higher).

Since Florida has no state income tax, Florida has to make up for the missing revenue somehow.

[The Bopper]

28. Florida

I visit Florida a couple of times a year. What I noticed is their extreme taxes on visitors. I rent a car that appears to only be $24 a day. When they finish with their taxes it ends up being $45 a day. Don’t get me started on renting a room. It makes them happy to tax the crap out of people who can’t vote them out.

[redstatebluegirl]

16. Couldn't one of the PACS we have highlight this and do some education for the masses?

[KPN]

30. Somebody should -- that's for sure. Robert Reich can't do it all alone!

[the_sly_pig]

17. When you reduce corporate tax...

You essentially subsidize their profits. This is the reason trickle down economics is a complete failure, just as it was when known as horse and sparrow.

College tuition cost too high? Blame the reduction of corporate taxes.

Health insurance same thing.

And now anything you may have wanted to leave to your children will now have to be used to pay their debt.

It’s a tidy system that funnels all the money to the top.

[Wounded Bear]

20. Trickle down economics has been a rousing success...

It's true purpose is to protect and expand the riches and profits of the 1%.

It works great.

[Progressive Jones]

19. It happens here in IL. I assume it happens everywhere. nt

[yaesu]

21. In my state they let auto insurers charge a catastrophe fee of $140 per car, per year that goes

into a hidden slush fund that no one but the insurers have access to or records for. That fee is mandatory and added to the mandatory auto insurance. Yep, they are a bunch of cons.

[Traildogbob]

23. North Carolina

They eliminated the emissions tests here for annual car inspection. A $12-15 dollar savings once a year for individual. But millions taken out of DOT road budgets and who really cares about cancerous air when ya save $15 dollars a year. The mouth breathers love the cash savings. Little do they know exhaling through the mouth sucks in larger amounts of poison. They will use that $15 for cigarettes anyway. MAGA. They will vote republican for the $15 in masses.

[steventh]

67. Emissions tests eliminated from yearly car inspections in NC?

Wow when did that happen? At my last inspection the car dude winked and told me he was doing me a favor by not failing me for failed emissions test. Being a good global citizen, I fixed the problem anyway.

[Traildogbob]

68. Last year,

My taxes and tests/inspection where due last June. I thought why is this $15 dollars cheaper, happy at first. Asked the garage owner, he said we no longer require emissions inspection, per the state. Think the criminal N.C. GOP trying to get support from average MAGAS after losing Govs race, even after all the election shittery. Look we saved you $15.00 annually. What can be gained by eliminating that? The money went to NC transportation.

[fescuerescue]

72. New cars don't require it anymore

But I know my 2016 F150 does. Also, that $15 never went to the state. It went to the local testing facility.

That had to hurt their income though.

[Traildogbob]

84. My truck is 11 years old.

So what is considered new?

[fescuerescue]

87. 3 years

https://www.ncconsumer.org/news-articles-eg/north-carolina-no-longer-requires-annual-emissions-inspection-for-newer-vehicles.html

[fescuerescue]

71. Just new cars

Cars older than 3 years still get tested.

[Traildogbob]

85. Are you sure

My truck is 11 years old and many of my friends have as old and older. Were not tested last year. I am certain if the inspectors loss local money they would not have bypassed all of us.

[fescuerescue]

88. About half of NC is exempted

and new cars (3 years) are exempted.

Emission testing in 48 counties (out of 100) is required for cars older than 3 model years.

https://www.ncconsumer.org/news-articles-eg/north-carolina-no-longer-requires-annual-emissions-inspection-for-newer-vehicles.html

[Historic NY]

25. Just start publizing that a fee is a tax. ...

and make a list.

In NY the Democrats & Republicans get creative with fees, from the state down to the local towns.

[KPN]

32. Here in Oregon the Dems have also fallen prey to fees, BUT -- in my opinion largely as a result of

and in response to the overall tax rebellion that has swept across America since Reagan.

The Rs use "fees" much like they use the "federal deficit" and "supply-side economics" to nefariously achieve selfish goals. We have no choice but to react to their nefarious means.

[H2O Man]

26. Recommended.

Definitely true for upstate New York.

[Liberty Belle]

33. They raise fees, yes, but in CA, not property taxes.

There was Republican led Prop 13 years ago to freeze property taxes when whoever owned the home at the time sells it, though future sellers would not have that protection. It's a sacred cow in California that was sold as protection for the elderly.

But our fees for everything else is going up.

Still some Republicans fight even those, wanting to shrink govt. and drown it in a bathtub. Hence the Rep-led fights against a gas tax increase and against even fire fees for fighting wildfires.

Some fees as on auto registration though have gone sky high, as have fines for traffic violations and more.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

34. Our last GOP governor, the odious but boring Tim Pawlenty,

tried to pull a bunch of that shit by calling things fees that were clearly taxes.

[jimlup]

35. The masses who vote for Republicans certainly are ...

and they apparently know it.

[Aquaria]

36. How things have been done in Texas for decades now

There's a fee for everything now. My utility bills spring new ones every time I turn around. WTF? Put it in the kilowatt hour or gallon of water, rather than this penny ante fee nonsense.

Even college classes have fees on top of the tuition here, which makes ZERO fucking sense. And I'm not talking lab fees, parking fees, library fees or any of that (a whole other kettle of fish I want to take some shots at), but an extra bullshit fee tacked on to all kinds of courses from science to business to liberal arts. Why? I have no idea.

FFS, charge those fees as tuition and be done with it, rather than nickel and diming students and their families with lies about the cost of education.

[kairos12]

41. Arizona is doing this.

[TwilightZone]

43. Definitely a Texas thing, especially when Rick Perry was governor.

He loved to raise fees and lower taxes.

[Ron Green]

44. We seem to have trouble deciding, as a society,

which things ought to be discouraged, by taxing and fees, and which should be encouraged, by public subsidy.

Normally we’d let scientists and experts weigh in on these distinctions, but somehow in the US it doesn’t work that way, because, you know, freedom.

[DFW]

46. Here in Germany, they raise everything all the time, AND raise fees for all services

The "top (not quite, but almost)" income tax rate of 42% kicks in at around €55,961 (about $61,000). This rate applies to income up to €265,327 (about $282,000), and everything over that is taxed at 45%*. On top of all that is always a 5% surtax, ostensibly to help rebuild East Germany, although after 30 years, there some serious grumbling about keeping it. There is always the usual argument about how much is given in return, but it applies to far from everyone. I'm in the top bracket here (not hard to achieve with a $61,000 threshhold), but I get no medical insurance, no pension, no nothing except quarterly bills. A friend of my wife's has mental health issues, and often relies on "little" gifts from my wife to help her be able to buy food at the end of the month when her welfare money runs out.

In addition to the income tax, there is that good old European form of government heroin, the value-added tax of 19% on everything. Talk about hitting the lower incomes hard, this is the golden icon. In some countries it is even 24%. It always goes up, never down. Germany, as many EU countries, is run to a large extent by professional politicians (Merkel is an exception--she actually learned how to do things). Double taxation is unconstitutional here (little issue about supplemental taxes on Jews in the 1930s that the post-war people wanted to avoid repeating, which is why a wealth tax here is prohibited), and yet they tax the gasoline tax at the pump with VAT, so you pay tax on the tax.

Most German politicians are so far removed from real life, it's hard to grasp that they are the ones who dream up the rules here. My wife, a solid Social Democrat/Greens voter, wants to propose a law that says that anyone who wants to be a member of parliament must first spend a year working out there in the real world, earning their own living among other people doing the same. THEN they can start enacting laws--when they can imagine from first-hand experience how those laws will impact people. Of course, such a proposal would get nowhere in any European parliament. The lifelong professional politicians who get their official cars, drivers, perks and pensions paid by taxpayers aren't interested in finding out what it means to BE a taxpayer.

* https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&sxsrf=ACYBGNTOQMHXyc5hGjXoJstFUZ1bQtnRoQ%3A1575138655143&ei=X7XiXd-kCMTJwQLxy744&q=spitzensteuersatz+2019&oq=spitzensteuersatz&gs_l=psy-ab.1.3.0i71l8.0.0..18535...0.2..0.0.0.......0......gws-wiz.Olz6vL2-7Gs

[SWBTATTReg]

57. Thanks for the information. I've been reading/seeing stuff on the news that the German ...

economic cycle is starting to slow down. I too, was unaware that Germany doesn't have any budget shortfalls, that is, it is not deficit funded (as the US budget is totally opposite of this). I like your wife's proposal, anyone running for office there should work in the real world for at least 1 year or more. An idea that I would think would go over well in the US.

You are either not of retirement age, or haven't paid into the German pension system for (what they said, 5 years), but you can transfer from other countries any pensions you had there (if you want). I am just surprised that you have no medical insurance, no pension, no nothing except quarterly bills (I assume that the bills are for these services on an ongoing basis)?

I always laugh when people gripe and complain about stuff here in the US, or elsewhere, or try to compare medical plans etc. on a 1 by 1 basis...too many differences to easily compare Countries and their medical plans/costs. With your VAT, it definitely throws a huge cost onto the top of everything. I wouldn't be surprised one day if the US does such a thing, otherwise, how are we going to pay off the huge deficits run up by the republicans and their reckless spending?

[DFW]

80. I am indeed of retirement age

That by no means forces me to retire. We all have to die of something. I do not want it to be of boredom in my case. At 67, I am not ready to divide my days between walking in the woods and sitting in front of a computer screen. This Jason Bourne routine of being in a different country every day can get tiring, but I'm not yet ready to give it up. I am looking for a replacement, but I have somewhat painted myself into a corner in that respect. 100% job security, but no one to jump in if I can't or won't do it any longer. Too bad. The job has a decent salary, 6 weeks paid vacation and lots of fun travel. The only requirements are ability to detect counterfeit money, including US coinage from 1793 onward, working permits for both the USA and the EU, and spoken and written competence in English, German, French, Spanish, Italian, Russian, Dutch and one Scandinavian language. Catalan would be a nice bonus but not a requirement. You'd think the line would stretch around the block, right?

My employer is in the USA, and my salary is paid there, too, so no, I have not paid into the German pension system. I have no pension in the USA, either, just a 401k and a Roth IRA, which the Germans refuse to recognize. I paid the 39.6% taxes in full when I made the Roth IRA conversion, but now the Germans want another 50% on top of that, and I was counting on more than 10.4% of my retirement fund to live on, if and when. German medical insurance quoted me €2500 PER MONTH due to a pre-existing condition, or about $33,000 per year. A bit above my pay grade. So, I keep my employer's American Blue Cross, which is to say more or less nothing. The quarterly bills I mentoned are nothing more than my quarterly tax bills for German estimated tax. I receive nothing in return except the right to wake up next to my wife the next morning when I can make it home at night (granted, in her case, that's a lot).

There is plenty to complain about in the USA, no question about it. I think far more people fall through the cracks than do in Germany. There are maybe a few hundred thousand Germans without health insurance (my wife is/was a German social workers, keeps on top of these things). Compare that with the tens of millions in the USA. Actually, my wife was one of those uninsured for a few years. She took early retirement due to health and mobbing at work, and for a few years, I had to buy health insurance for her. It was about €500 a month--not cheap, but considering that she contracted a horrible form of cancer during that time, and it required some very serious treatment, it was well worth it. She made a complete recovery, and she had no supplemental costs or deductibles, so we not only got her back in good health, but also without the headaches of worrying about whether or not we could afford it. On the other hand, not everyone can afford to fork over €6000 a year for medical insurance, either, and she had zero income during that time.

I don't see (and hope it never occurs) the USA instituting a VAT. It would ignore one VERY significant fact that sets us apart from Europe. In the USA EVERY state already has the right to levy a sales tax, and decide what is subject to it. Food is often exempted, and clothing sometimes is exempted, so lower incomes get a break. Some states decide not to levy a sales tax at all, but the fact remains that they can if they want to. Therefore a national sales tax, i.e. a VAT, would throw a major monkey wrench into the budget calculations of everyone but the very rich. What do individual states do, in that case, where they are faced with deciding to keep their sales tax and burden their residents, or ditch it and burden their budgets? Who decides how much of the national VAT is used for what, and redistributed where? Congresscritters from states with no sales tax will push for bills that distribute huge sums back to their states, where representatives from states that already levy a state sales tax will push for a minimal VAT, or no VAT at all. No one wants to drive people and businesses out of their state, after all. Massachusetts has been grumbling for decades about sales-tax-free New Hampshire being on their northern border (and NH businesses have been gloating ever since).

It has always bewildered me how Republicans always seem to get away with running up crushing deficits when they are in power, saying "deficits don't matter," and yet scream at Democrats for not wiping out budgets (the ones the Republicans caused, for example!) 24 hours after taking office. And their mindless minions think this is perfectly normal, and fail to notice any lack of consistency in their argument.

[SWBTATTReg]

89. Thanks so much for your engaging and thoughtful response. I learn something new all...

of the time and being in my 60s too, like you, this is wonderful. I am sorry I took so long to respond, but I wanted to think a little bit before I responded, being that your DU post was so comprehensive and chock full of information.

How refreshing it is (to me at least) that your wife is worth more than gold itself, to you. I love it. I feel the same way w/ my other half too. It is nice to see that money isn’t everything, as so many seem to think in today’s world. You are both definitely blessed and indeed very lucky to have found each other in the world of today. Too many people I know don’t have that significant other, or are married yet (or even will be), so they don’t know the value of such relationships. Such relationships are more than worth their weight in gold, and those that have such relationships are indeed blessed and lucky.

Thank goodness that you had insurance coverage on your wife, it goes to show, that sure, it was very expensive for the additional insurance to cover your wife, it was worth every single penny. I hope that she stays in remission, and that this scourge doesn’t come back.

And, thanks to you, I now have a better and healthier appreciation of the ramifications of a VAT, and the ‘dangers’ it poses. I didn't before, and now I do. Also, you pointed out the differences between states w/ different tax structures being different, causing all sorts of discrepancies along the common border of the states involved. Another good point I hadn’t considered.

Sales taxes, as you explained, are levied by the taxpayers, who decide what should and shouldn’t be included in the tax base (that the sales tax should apply to). In MO, the sales tax % is reduced on medical prescriptions and during certain periods of the year, school supplies.

But more and more local taxing authorities are not honoring this exemption (school supplies, computers, etc., anything related to school)...kind of sad that this temporary loss of tax income on school supplies causes local towns such hardships (they rely too much on these tax revenues, especially if there is a Walmart or huge box store located within their town boundaries).

I’ve already have read stories of local towns moaning about the loss of tax revenues when a giant box store opens in the local town literally next door. It has a huge impact. In STLMO, there are literally a hundred little cities/towns scattered around, and of course, each one of them has its own tax laws/sales taxes, etc. It causes all kinds of distortions in the gathering of tax revenues.

[DFW]

91. Most European countries are no bigger than an average midwestern state

Even Germany could fit inside Texas a couple of times (at least pre-unification, maybe even post-). A centralized government and taxation system makes more sense here than in the USA with its broad diversity of population. geography and local customs. A state sales/income tax is far more suited to a large country as broadly de-centralized as ours. Even in the small countries of Europe, the central governments tend to have a fanatic-level desire to know about and control every level of people's lives, and the people, naturally, tend to try to fight it and get around it. When my accountant in the USA received the request for information on me from the German accountant after I moved here, they remarked that they risked a jail sentence for giving out such information on clients in the USA, and needed my written approval to pass it on.

This last treatment was my wife's second round with cancer. The first time was in 2001, and that robbed her of a year of her life. Operations, chemo, radiation and rehab, it all took about 11 months. She bounced back from that, but it took a while. A natural typical German blonde, her hair at first grew back like a dark brown afro, which then straightened out, but didn't regain her natural color for almost 2 years. The fact that she had already had cancer once was the reason she got regular routine checkups. Her second cancer, called "the murderer" in Germany, as it is usually always fatal, only strikes women who are elderly (64 at the time, so not really) or very slender (5'10" and 130 pounds, so definitely qualifying there). It is very silent and is almost never discovered until it is too late to save the patient (hence, "the murderer" ). Because of her frequent routine checkups, my wife was that one case in ten thousand where it was discovered in its earliest stage, and the surgeon said it was the first time he had ever said he thought she could go home without facing another round of chemo. They took out 84 lymph nodes, and every one came back negative, something he had never seen. So far (now 3 years), his diagnosis was correct. She and I have been together now for 45 years, and starting over at this late date is unimaginable for either of us.

A funny thing when she went for her pre-op checkup at her gynecologist--they had a new receptionist who called her to the desk and told her she had made a mistake in filling out her personal info. She was pretty sure she knew that by heart, so she asked what the problem was. The new receptionist said she had filled in the wrong year of birth, because for the year my wife wrote down to be correct, she would have to be 64 years old. My wife told her that she WAS, in fact, 64 years old, so what's the problem? The receptionist couldn't believe it, thought she was 20 years younger. Sort of a compliment, though not much of a compliment implying that she didn't even know the year in which she was born.

Tax authorities almost everywhere are caught in a nasty situation of governments demanding more and more revenue and middle class taxpayers less and less willing to shoulder the burden. A German friend of mine with a small business here estimated that with all the different taxes he pays, he works for government until late September, and then starts to work for himself. I have the problem that the Germans are reluctant to honor portions of the USA-Germany double taxation treaty that mean they can't double tax me on portions of my income that are/were already taxed at the source in the USA. The treaty is decades old, and, bureaucrats that they are, they can't adapt to laws enacted in the USA in the meantime. A neighbor of ours is a judge on the tax court and also a professor of tax law at the Univeriity of Bonn. He wrote his doctorate on double taxation. He says the German legal system has gotten so burdened down with contradictory tax regulations that they can't figure out their own laws in many cases.

In much of Europe--certainly here in Germany, there is a centuries old tradition of the farmer's market. Almost every town has one, including the one I live in. Although there are supermarkets and Walmart-like stores around, we purposely patronize the local market in order to try to keep the tradition alive. The bureaucrats are trying to kill it. It is easier for them to audit a chain store, with its computerized cashiers, than some poor farmer who brings his celery and tomatoes around to town squares all year round in all kinds of weather. The bureaucrats now enacted a law (to combat tax evasion, so they say) that there has to be a printed sales receipt for EVERY transaction, even the 30 cent plain roll at the local baker, or the 26 cent stalk of celery at the farmer's market. It is estimated this will generate the need for a few BILLION new pieces of paper, and, presumably, many thousands of new bureaucrats to audit them. These markets have been functioning just fine in German cities for about a thousand years now, and there are no millionaire small farmers. They can't even leave THAT alone?

Like Bill Clinton said of the Republicans, "they say: if it ain't broke, BREAK IT!"

[guillaumeb]

47. All of those fees are regressive, in that they affect lower income people more

strongly.

The rich save far more of their incomes, so higher taxes affect them more than higher fees.

Even raising professional and licensing fees affects lower income people more because the rich can take those fees as business costs.

[tiptonic]

48. Too busy

The masses are too busy watching things like, the Kardasians, football, Faux news etc:. This country is in trouble.

[usaf-vet]

49. That's the way it rolls in Wisconsin. Raise fees. Cut services. Shift funding.....

... from state levels to local levels. Ensuring the local bodies get the blame for either cutting the services or raising the funding via increases fees to maintain services.

While in Wisconsin spending billions to fund Foxconn Manufacturing which promised high paying jobs for the thousands of new jobs manufacturing high tech electronics for the consumer market.

Which to date: None of which has happened as promised.

Yet the taxpayers are still obligated to pay the bill.

We got sold a bill of goods and have little or nothing to show for our $3 billion dollars.

Here is a recent WaPo article.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/01/30/foxconns-plan-giant-wisconsin-factory-now-looks-uncertain/

[SWBTATTReg]

93. Still nothing done? Wow. If nothing has happened thus far, it probably won't since tech ...

changes so rapidly that when the plant gets built, the stuff they've planned to build will be out of date.

[ThoughtCriminal]

50. Arizona

One of the most regressive tax states. On a personal level, I watched my property tax go up about 40% during a time when it actually depreciated by around 30%. People who think they have to elect Republicans to avoid higher taxes don't seem to notice that what is happening is that the taxes are being shifted from the rich to everyone else.

[AllyCat]

51. Republicans in Wisconsin finally listened thar

we do NOT want toll roads. They refused to raise the gas tax, but were okay with raising the vehicle registration fee. Fine. Our fee was pretty low. But the gotcha for the libruls was that they added a $75 surcharge plus the higher fee if you own a hybrid or electric vehicle.

[paleotn]

52. That's been going on for awhile...

Shifting the tax structure from leaning progressive to regressive. Started with the Reagan revolution. Property taxes really don't bother me as much as sales taxes. They are in my mind the most regressive form of taxation. My old home state has one of the highest sales taxes in the country, counting state and local assessment, but no income tax other than a slight tax on certain dividends. Needless to say, it's a ruby red state.

[Hortensis]

58. Yes. Also, a lot of fees and penalties are governments preying

on people to bring in some of the lost revenue that must be gathered somehow. A secondary motive, aside from permanently shifting the tax base to regressive.

[Newest Reality]

53. Yup!

Where I am at, sales tax is 11%. That's rather high to someone in my situation. I could see 6-8% max, but for poor folks, paying an extra dollar for every ten really adds up.

I have noticed also, over the years, that the shift is from your the property taxes you pay on you house, etc., being what what would fun your city services. Now, water, sewage and garbage collection seem to be an extra fee by default.

Regressive taxation has been shown to be leveraged towards those who have and a real detriment to the poor, especially when it comes down to absolute necessities required for living.

[gibraltar72]

55. Sounds like Michigan

under P rick Snyder and the Rs.

[krispos42]

59. Republicans love regressive taxes because they are regressive people

They don't want taxes that are based on how much you make or how much you're worth financially.

If a rich person lives in a modest house, they pay very little in property taxes as a percentage of income.

Same with car taxes, registration fees, utilities, telecom bills, etc. That $150 annual fee is nothing to him but it might be 20 hours of wages to somebody else.

Even things like tickets and fines. A $90 ticket is nothing to the rich, but it's hours of work for Average Joe.


A Nordic country, I think it was Norway, issued a five-figure speeding ticket a couple of years ago because their fines are based on income, and the violator was some multi-millionaire.

[SergeStorms]

77. In our country....

it's so difficult to find out some people's income they'd probably pay nothing in traffic court. Trump would have four sets of books; one for the banks to procure loans, one for insurance companies to keep his premiums low, one for the tax people to show how destitute he is, and one for the DMV to get out of speeding tickets.

Most uber-wealthy folks don't have much of an income anyway. They have their capital assets earning money for them and they hide any profits offshore. It's a wonderful system if you're filthy rich.

[warmfeet]

61. Been going on for decades.

Many fall for it, unfortunately.

Tim Pawlenty in this state, for instance.

Get me a barf bag.

[pansypoo53219]

64. ahh, the fee TAX. hiding taxes. yes. i noticed it years ago.

[yardwork]

65. They do the same in North Carolina. These fees and sales taxes hurt poorer people more.

[Oppaloopa]

66. Florida does this also.

[Patterson]

70. Arkansas has lowered the state income tax 3 sessions in a row.

One day they will go too far and it will take a supermajority to raise them back.

[PatSeg]

73. Almost anywhere I've ever lived

they've done this, republicans and Democrats. What really sucks is it tends to hurt the poor most of all, as many of these fees are the same no matter what your income.

[George II]

74. Under bush and republican presidents they've been doing that for decades. No tax increases....

....fees are increasing like crazy. "Taxes aren't going up!"

[bluevoter4life]

75. Florida has been doing this since I lived there

Adding new toll roads all the time, and raising the tolls on the Turnpike, despite it being paid for years ago.

[Sucha NastyWoman]

78. When tax rates stay the same, but appraised value goes up revenue is increased

Last edited Sun Dec 1, 2019, 09:43 AM - Edit history (2)

Something people don’t think about.

If they are truly keeping spending in check, then when appraised values are rising, the tax rate should be decreasing. Otherwise they are getting as big fat raise in revenue. But as long as the tax rate isn't rising , nobody seems to notice what’s really going on.

[Recursion]

79. Yeah, they prefer use fees to taxes

You see it a lot in the south.

[MrModerate]

81. The complexity and opacity of how the government funds itself...

Is not a uniquely Republican effect. 'Hungry little agencies' is the rule rather than the exception. And has been since time immemorial.

[Marthe48]

86. Ohio

Just talked to my s-i-l about taxes and fees. kasich changed tax collection. Local taxes go to the state, which used to disburse them back to local govt., but now the state keeps the taxes. So local property taxes, fees and so on and on go up. The funding for schools in Ohio was ruled unconstitutional years ago, but no one has fixed it. We have a bunch of incompetent people in the state house whi spend all their time writing illegal and stupid anti-abortion laws and no time working on moving Ohio forward. We may as well be alabama.

[OhioBlue]

90. Yes. I call it trickle down tax burden

In the past 20 years, I have seen Ohio cut income taxes which favored the rich and industry and cut the inheritance tax which flowed to local governments. At the same time, local governments and schools have faced reduced revenue from the State and are constantly asking for property tax levies for roads, police and fire, library, DD districts, vocational school districts, public school districts, parks, etc. And, fees for everything from drivers license to recording fees have increased at rates much higher than normal cost of living increases. Taft increased the sales tax and Dewine increased the gas tax - both Republican governors.

[Aristus]

92. That's the way it is in Washington State.

Even though we are nominally a blue state, no one in Olympia wants to institute a state income tax, worried that everyone will immediately flip red.

So they keep raising sales taxes to the sky, and meanwhile, we can't pay for anything. The potholes around here are legendary.