Dog - crate - sorry it's in GD but I need some advise

[underpants]

We got a dog on Wednesday
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10181287412

Let me get right to it - 8 hours in the crate. HOW do we do this?.

Everything we've read or heard says he shouldn't spend more than 8 hours a day "cooped up".
We both work and our girl is at school. So he has to be in the crate at this point while we are gone. He's 10 feet away from me in the living room - I'm sleeping here tonight- we moved the crate/cage/"room" as our daughter calls it today. We were wrong to have it isolated.

Advise?

[montanacowboy]

1. Do you have a garage?

We leave ours in the garage with their crates but they have the freedom to roam around. We have cameras that we can watch them on our phones during the day. I think 8 hrs in a crate is a really bad idea.

[underpants]

13. Too cold

Too much stuff in the garage.

[Drahthaardogs]

38. Nearly Impossible to freeze s healthy dog to death.

Very easy to kill one overheating. Don't believe the bullshit. I have dogs that will go outside to sleep in the snow if given a choice.

[LuckyCharms]

2. It's a tough problem.

I used to spend my entire lunch hour going to and from home just to let him out for a bit and to play with him. Then I'd eat in the car while driving back. It sucked. Also, I know that many (most?) people have too long of a commute to do that.

I'll be interested in seeing the responses here.

[MissB]

3. I'm not quite sure what the question is... but

The crate should be a positive thing. Use a treat to lure your dog in, even if he/she walks right in. Giving a treat once in and laying down makes it a positive experience. We grab a treat and say “bed” and he knows just where we want him.

Our pup is 6 months and not fully trained. He sleeps in our room, either in his crate or on his bed. His choice (bedtime doesn’t warrant a treat). If he gets up in the middle of the night and needs to go out, he may or may not go back to sleep in the crate.

When we take off to a place he can’t go, he goes in his crate. Since he’s young, he isn’t in there for a full day yet. But it’s a positive place for him.

[Drahthaardogs]

4. I train dogs on the side

First, I would recommend a priefert kennel. Concrete on the bottom or wire with pea gravel over and a dog igloo.

Second, teach your dog to run on a treadmill! This time of year is a life saver. I can get 4 miles on them in about 50 minutes.

Third, bully sticks, peanut butter Kong's, and just teaching them to eat their food from a long frozen goes a long way.

[Kurt V.]

5. That's 16 hrs outside the crate. give them love for that time.

[Ms. Toad]

53. Realistically, less than 8 hours -

Assuming 8 hours of sleep, and some time when the dog will be ignored while everyone is preparing for their day.

[womanofthehills]

6. My dogs have run of the house - when I'm out they sleep

Do you live in a house where you can have a doggie door to an outside enclosed area with a dog house? I think 8 hrs in a cage is cruel.

[LakeArenal]

7. You should commit to Doggie Daycare twice a week.

Presuming he gets to be out of the cage on weekends. Doggie Day Care Monday and Thursday.

[procon]

8. Why did you get a dog?

Seriously, 8 hours confined to a cage that's barely big enough to turn around. Isolated I, confined and alone with no interaction, sounds like Puppy Gitmo. No water, food, potty, contact... What kinda of life is that? The poor beastie deserves better, don't you think?

Yes, I'm upset by your post. Can you not hire a dog walker at the least, or take him to doggie day care, can a relative or friend take him in their house while you're out? Why did you get a dog without understanding the responsibility of being a good owner who loves their companion animals like they are cherished family members... End of rant.

[underpants]

21. S

T
F
U

[procon]

25. That sums up the whole problem...yeah? nt

[underpants]

29. Off

Go away

[CatWoman]

44. LOL

[UniteFightBack]

17. It's called crate training. Geesh. nt

[Arazi]

9. Does the dog have some kind of behavioral issue that mandates he be crated?

I don't know anyone who has to crate their dog that much

[underpants]

22. He's been pretty good

He's asleep right now 10 feet from me.

New house. Lots of new things - not cheap. just looking for tips.

[tblue37]

30. I have never had a crate for a dog. I have 4 cats now, but I had dogs in the past. I've

never had a crate for a dog.

[Karadeniz]

10. Well...if you got a tall dog gate, one you could secure...you could put doggie in a laundry room/

Bathroom/kitchen since those have floors you can clean. Beagles are pretty clever. He could chew the gate. You could design a frame with hinges and a wire mesh interior. You could hire a carpenter!

Here's a trick we use. Take a chain leash. Put the nylon handle behind a refrigerator or stove leg and thread the clip end through the nylon handle end. Pull to tighten. Now you have a stable tie-down. Use a chain leash to keep doggie from gnawing through a leather, rope or nylon leash. You can put a blanket down for him.

If you or wife can come home for lunch, you can let him out and he wouldn't have to spend an 8-hour stretch in the cage.

Find toys that will occupy his interest...kong with peanut butter inside (a chore to clean)...feeders they have to work at.

Or...take him to work!!!!!❤

[roody]

11. I've had dogs and worked full time for decades.

My dog or dogs are free to roam the house when I'm gone. We have had no problems with this.

[leftyladyfrommo]

12. Get a pet sitter to come noonish.

I do that for working people. I get the puppy out for half an hour for $15 a visit.

[underpants]

14. Yeah I wanted to keep the post short.

We've considered that but I think we are going to do short lunch breaks for now.

[UniteFightBack]

16. I was gone 12 hours a day so I made her a little 'apartment' in my kitchen. I had her crate,

her food and water and of course the pee area. My dog was too young to hold it that long so I had to go that route. Around the house I had her on a leash attached to something in the room I was in or attached to me so I could catch her in the act and of course just keep an eye on her....the worst thing you can do is give an untrained dog free run of the house.

For nighttime I set up a gate in my room (next to my bed of course) to mimic a crate and that's where she slept in the beginning and until house trained. Those gates are priceless. Ferret gates have come in very handy through the years.

[jcgoldie]

18. Why does the dog need to be in a crate?

?

[underpants]

24. It's a standard thing

It's a standard crate. It's plenty big. I'm 10 feet from it and I'm sleeping in the furniture.

I CLEARLY wanted constructive advise and experience.

Why did you bother with your response? You don't need to answer that.

[jcgoldie]

28. I dont need to answer anything

You are the one being defensive. Why does the dog need to be in a crate? You afraid to get dog hair on the sofa , you are afraid it will shit on the floor what? "Its a standard thing" is a bullshit answer... answer questions or dont ask for advise in a public forum for fucks sake.

[underpants]

31. 😯

https://replygif.net/1226

https://giphy.com/gifs/robert-downey-jr-sigh-confused-116a8zosxwA0SI

[Jane Austin]

60. It's for the dog's safety, too.

The are electrical cords, unexpected visitors, roach poison you forgot about, cigarettes, foods they shouldn't have.

It is much safer for the dog to be crated. They sleep most of the time and are thrilled when you get home.

[jcgoldie]

63. whatever

Tell yourself whatever feels good. If you have a dog don't leave things in its reach. Thats called responsible pet ownership.

If thats too much work... maybe having a dog isnt that important to you.

[Jane Austin]

65. You don't even know me.

But I do know people who love their dogs who have had a fatal accident.

You can't predict every eventuality.

[jcgoldie]

68. Sorry I was using the generic "you"

But it occurs to me that tragic accidents befall people every day as well... and yet no-one would argue that they would be better off living most of their lives in the safety of a small cage.

[sop]

19. Try something like this...

https://www.amazon.com/BestPet-8-Panel-Playpen-Exercise-48-Inch/dp/B00KHEQAL2

Leaving young, active dogs alone inside for long periods, particularly when you don't want to return to a house full of shredded sofa stuffing or chewed-up shoes, is best accomplished with some sort of enclosure. I've used the Kennel-Aire brand of folding portable dog pen enclosures, both at dog shows and inside the house to restrict young, active breeds for long periods. If you want the security of a fully-enclosed crate, an extra large and tall wire crate (think something sized for a great dane) gives the dog much more room to stretch and move around.

[Tipperary]

23. I have had dogs all my life.

Not one of them spent ( or spends) one second in a cage.

[ismnotwasm]

26. I just got a German Shepard puppy

She’s growing fast. I didn’t want to crate train her, but she needs a LOT of attention and teaching so we went with it. Only thing I know is the crate shouldn’t feel like a punishment. I keep her favorite toys in there and give her lots of snacks when she’s in there. I work 12 hour shifts, so when I’m not home, my husband is in charge, I think the most she spends is 5 hours in the crate, and most often not even that.

[emmaverybo]

27. Why must he be crated while you are gone? Dog-proof an area and put doggy wee wee pads down.

He should not be crated eight hours straight during the day and then again at night. Get a nice doggie bed or put down blankets and be sure there’s nothing dangerous to be chewed or got into.
Exercise hm before you go to work and settle him down with safe toys and water in an enclosed area.
You can also get a tray thingy for the pads that can be cleaned out. Get max absorbency ones.

Crates are for training or transport, also as a little open houses they can go in and out of, but not
to live in unless they must be kept immobile or separated from another animal or child for shorter
periods of time.

PS forgot about puppies, but no more than for hours at a stretch.

[docgee]

32. We've always crate trained our puppies.

Once they are house broken they roam free in the house all day. Yes, they will chew stuff, but get them something better to chew on than your stuff. Also, get him a buddy. They will play and sleep all day and be fine.

[emmaverybo]

37. Puppies though should not be more than 3-4 hours in the crate because their bladders

fill up and dogs do not like to do the biz in their quarters. Not challenging you, just reminding people who might be reading the posts.

[ismnotwasm]

50. I agree

When we first got our puppy she was 8 weeks old. I took her out a LOT. She’s 12 weeks now, and mostly potty trained, but still gets uncomfortable when she has to go. When she’s in the crate at night, if she she starts whining, we have to get up and let her out

[emmaverybo]

56. Oh, nice guardians.

[emmaverybo]

33. Good stuff about crating here and aspca also a good doggie care resource.

https://www.humanesociety.org/resources/crate-training-101

Good on you asking for advice!

[WhiskeyGrinder]

34. Why did you get a dog?

[drray23]

35. I never crated my dogs.

I personally think its cruel. I instead spend a lot of time training them to go outside. Starting puppies by keeping them in a smaller room with newspapers and pee pads.
They quickly learn.

[Liberal In Texas]

36. We've never had crates.

When working the dogs had to just sort it out for themselves. Leave water and some dry food. Have some dog toys for them. Get a Kong for dogs. Stick a milk bone in them and they can be entertained for quite awhile.

Mostly they sit in the window bench watching the outdoors and waiting for dad or mom to come home. Dog TV.

[appalachiablue]

39. Try setting up an area with easy clean flooring, use BABY GATES

to define the area. Be sure to leave food and water, have good light and air. Good luck with your new pooch.

[Coventina]

40. All my dogs have always LOVED their crates.

Sorry you are getting so much flak, Underpants.

If the dog is an adult 8 hours is about the upper limit for being in a crate. Puppies need much more frequent breaks.

As others have stated upthread, a better solution would be a "safe" room, until you are sure all the behavioral issues are dealt with.
But, having a crate-trained dog is a godsend and it's NOT CRUEL.

Dogs have a denning instinct, and want a safe, small place they can call their own. By small, I mean it should be big enough for the dog to comfortably stand and turn around in.

Ideally, the crate should be available all the time, but only locked when necessary.

My dogs love their crates so much, they seek out similar places to hang out in when in other parts of the house.
Don't let anyone fool you into thinking it's cruel. It's not.

[mopinko]

43. jinx.

lol. see below.

[Coventina]

45. LOL! GMTA!

[Jane Austin]

61. Mine, too.

It's their little space.

It's nice to have crates available, too, when persnickety company comes over.

[mopinko]

41. my advice is prolly dont ask about animals on du, but you are doing fine.

how old is this dog?
is it housebroken?

keeping a new dog under closes control is the smart way to do it, and most dogs love their crates. most that dont can be trained to do so.
people who think it is cruel are just anthropomorphizing. dogs are denning animals, and esp in a new place, a closed crate is safe and snug and just what a dog needs.
feed him in his crate, give him the good chew toys only in his crate. play in and out w treats, and give him a signal to go in. do that from farther and farther away, and you have taught the place command. a truly valuable thing to teach that most people dont.

my 2 fave sites for training info are-
leerburg.com, which has tons of article, free videos, and q&a. i like michael ellis, and there are a lot of old vids of him and ed frawly that are worth sorting through. ask cindy has answered every imaginable question at some point. browse the archives.

also dr patricia mcconnell. i am old enough to have seen several waves of new thinking about dog training, starting w the guys who trained the wwII war dogs, through operant conditioning, debates over possitive v negative reinforcement.
people are doing really amazing things these days. working dogs these days are happy and fulfilled and doing stunts that were the stuff of ed sullivan back in the day.

feel free to pm me if you dont want to get beat up.

[LeftInTX]

46. I agree with you!

I actually have very little experience with dogs, but survived 14 years with my kids' chihuahua. Dogs love their crates and a crate was a godsend for that little dog. Dogs just seem insecure if given free reign.

[LeftInTX]

42. Our chihuahua was never fully potty trained

If it was cold and rainy she would go in the house and the carpet was her toilet choice. So, I would keep her in her crate during bad weather. Then I would take the crate outside and take her out, let her do her business and put her right back in the crate. (She was a full grown dog however)

Do you have a bathroom you can keep the dog in? If it's a puppy, it might feel more secure in a crate and have someone take it out periodically for potty breaks.

ETA: I assume your dog is house broken. Should be able to hold the bladder for 8 hours and will probably need crating for a limited time. I would probably go with the gating as an option too. (Unless the dog is a jumper)

Dogs have a denning instinct and I think they feel insecure if given "free reign" until they learn their boundaries. Just my opinion. They really do rely on their owner to set boundaries for them. I'm not a dog expert at all, but I know they need boundaries and will challenge those boundaries if they aren't set (Wolf/alpha thing)

[defacto7]

47. So much depends on the individual dog.

I've had dogs that loved their crate like it was their little cave. I've had others that hated it at first but they all got used to it as a fun or safe place. Out of the many dogs I've owned they eventually got to the point that the kennel was unnecessary and that happens pretty quickly once they understand the house. I'd spend more time getting them used to being free and trained than being in the kennel.
We have this one big 110 lb lumux of love that when their's a knock on the door he barks, barks, barks and I say 'ken'lup" and he runs directly into his kennel because he knows he gets a treat. Then I can get the door without him jumping on the visitor. He loves visitors, but he likes his treat even more. Once he settles down he comes out, gets a treat and no jumping on the guest. That's his routine and this is his only kennel time anymore.
Dogs have different personalities and needs. You just have to find the balance between your needs and their's along with learning their limitations. It's a big job. But lean toward freedom and let the kennel be more of a phase or a fun thing for her/him and you'll both be happier for it.

[pnwmom]

48. With an older dog, like yours is, you can ALSO

use baby gates or doors to keep your dog inside a safe room when you're not there -- like your kitchen. Place the crate inside that room.

At one point, we had a crate in our kitchen, with the crate door open, so the new puppy had a retreat. But he didn't have access to the full house till he was fully housebroken and had stopped chewing everything.

Another option is to get a large play yard -- like the kind sold for babies and toddlers -- and put the crate inside that.

(You might also consider paper-training the dog, in a corner of the room, so he'd have a place to go, if necessary.)

[drray23]

49. Uniquely american thing.

The excuse is well, it's the denning instinct, they like it. This practice took off in the late 80's and 90's . Busy urbanites who could not invest the time to walk the dog and such quickly adopted it. It sounded good, was backed by some pseudo dog psychology bullshit and of course by sellers of such equipment.
Now if course we can use our usual american attitude and say we know better and all the rest of the world is wrong. Or else admit, that it's worth reconsidering.


https://whyy.org/segments/is-a-dog-crate-really-a-den-how-this-very-american-practice-took-off/

[TruckFump]

51. Doggy Day Camp

She loves it. Has play time. Gets fed healthy food and treats. My pupster goes at least one day a week. Good for socializing her. She has special pals she hangs with.

[LisaL]

52. We never crated the dog we had.

It was fine and not particularly destructive. Of course a beagle mix might be another story. But if it's well mannered and not a puppy it might be fine not crated.

[Ms. Toad]

54. Find a way for the crate to be the exception, rather than the norm.

and unlocked most of the time - so it is a place he chooses to go, and can get out of if he wants to. Stagger work if you can so that you and your spouse are home off-shift from each other. If not, hire a pet-sitter/walker to come in during the day. Invest in doggie day care.

Having a crate as a refuge/den is fine, assuming the dog truly likes it as a refuge, but it should not be 8 hours a day, nearly every day, of locked in isolation. Dogs are pack animals - 2/3 of each day (sleep + work) every day without interaction doesn't meet their need for companionship.

I'd love to have a dog - but I won't get one (at least not until I retire) because I can't commit to the time and interaction a dog needs - and I won't subject a dog to the daily isolation that being my pet would mean for the foreseeable future. Until then - we have cats (which are far better suited to solitary lives than dogs).

[Liberty Belle]

55. You may not need to crate the dog at all.

Is it a puppy or an adult? If an adult and house-trained it is probably not a problem.

If house-trained and past the chewing stage, it's probably fine to give it the run of the house or at least one room. If she chews items, or is not house trained, maybe consider confining her to one room.

We tried crate-training our husky puppy. She first pried open the crate door, and the next night flipped it on its side and pushed out the bottom. After that we threw it away.

She has never had a single accident in the house, nor ever chewed up a single thing inappropriate indoors (other than a couple of times pulling food off the counter that I forgot and left out.)

It's really not fair to expect a dog to sleep all night and then stay crated up all day, in my view. But if you keep it active with long walks and playtime when home, chances are the dog will snooze much of the time you are away.

[madaboutharry]

57. Get a copy of The Loved Dog by Tamar Geller.

She has a lot of great information on crates and crating.

Taking the dog to doggie day care a couple of times a week sounds like a good idea if that’s an option.

Don’t let the negativity get to you. It seems like your doing your best and trying to figure it out.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

58. I honestly don't get this crate thing.

Here's what you REALLY need to think about:

Dogs are very attuned to humans. They need us a whole lot more than we (as individuals) need them. If you are going to take a dog into your life and then be gone more than 8 hours at a stretch, re-think having a dog. Yeah. Re-think it. Either figure out a way that the dog won't be left alone so long, or get a fish or a parrot or a cat. All of them are fine without humans around as much.

As for the crate: Would you be happy being in a cell that allows you to stand up and move around and nothing else for that many hours a day? Really? And if he's in the crate and just a few feet from you, why exactly is he in the crate? You must be a huge fan of prison cells.

Some years ago I did volunteer work at a local animal shelter, staffing the greeting desk on weekends. It was a small shelter, actually a home that had been donated and wasn't really very suitable to be an animal shelter but it was better than nothing. All of the dog walkers had to bring the dogs past me to take them outside and bring them back. I was struck by how every single dog wanted to greet every single human they passed. Wow. I have never been much of a dog person (cats, that's what I prefer) but this was an amazing and wonderful experience to learn about dogs. They evolved alongside us. They need us. Do not put them in a small prison for any part of the day. Don't.

[ribrepin]

59. We crated our puppy until about 18 months

He's a terrier and chewed up everything. I would think I had the room cleaned out, but still he would find something to chew. I was less worried about the items than an intestinal blockage. I made up for it by taking him everywhere when I was off work. At about 18 months, he stopped eating everything and I stopped crating him. Now I'm retired and hang out with him all the time and no crating.

[StarryNite]

62. Not all dogs are the same.

Some dogs adapt well to a crate. We got our pound puppy when she was 4 1/2 months old. We tried crate training her even though somebody was nearly always home with her. But I had read it's good for them and can come in handy if they need to be confined for short periods of time for some reason. But our dog never adapted to the crate. She hated it. So I would use it to keep her toys in and leave the door open. She would literally go in and pick through the toys and "rescue" her favorite ones from the crate. She was so miserable in it during training that I just folded it up and put it away. I'm claustrophobic so I could relate to her hating being in the crate.

I like what some have suggested in confining your pup to a room rather than in a crate. You can have the crate in the room with the door open and a bed inside. Some dogs seem to feel safe, like in a den, when they can go in and out of a crate. Good luck!

[Hekate]

64. Excellent question & sorry you are getting so much flack.

It's been ages since we had a puppy, and I wish I'd known more about training with our first, a Sheltie. He had access to the outdoors, but was very lonely with all of us gone all day and got into some bad habits (i.e barking).

By the time we got our next puppy, I was at home, and the family was in and out all day. She was so tiny she got to sleep with us. Her sister spent a lot of weekends with us, and that's when I used the crate for the two of them together. I had it set up in the kitchen pretty much permanently, with a beach towel over the top, as I kept her food and water in it so it would always feel like "home," and also used it when we had a lot of company to keep her from getting stepped on. It was pretty big for two very small dogs -- like for a 40+ pound dog.

All I really know about real crate training is that my sister used it for her dog, and swore by it as a humane method. Unfortunately for me, she lives on the other side of the country and was not able to train me.

I just wanted to give you a vote of support. There are some good suggestions in this thread. Ignore the cranks.

Enjoy your new family member!

[Croney]

66. We adopted our little terrier between blizzards, and she never went outside

for weeks, so she was trained to puppy pads from the start. A baby gate across the kitchen door keeps her in the kitchen while we sleep.

I can't offer advice about crating, but if a dog is crated for many hours, I think it would at least need frequent potty breaks.

[madaboutharry]

67. People have a tendency to project human values onto animals.

I am sorry for the pushback you are getting here.

A crate, when used properly, is a wonderful tool for teaching a puppy not to use your home as a toilet. They see it as their "den" and their "home." They do not see it as a prison cell. A crate can be a positive thing for a dog.

I think there have been some good suggestions to help you with your puppy so that he doesn't stay in the crate for too long a period at a time.

I will say again that the doggie day care idea is a good one. They will take him out to potty regularly and he will also learn how to be around other dogs and new people.

Hang in there. it is obvious you love your dog and that is what is most important