HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » 101 Refresher

Mon Dec 9, 2019, 05:33 PM

101 Refresher

“The duty of a true Patriot is to protect his country from its government.”
-- Thomas Paine



While watching today's House hearing, the kindest thing I can say about the republicans is that their behavior appears surreal on the surface. If we dig a little deeper, it seems bizarre. Let's take a moment to dig even deeper, to see if we might identify why they are acting like petty brats.

“Politics 101” teaches that in every political contest, there are three groups: those who always support you, those who always oppose you, and the undecided. The basic strategy is to campaign in a manner that makes your supporters happy, that doesn't rile your opposition into taking action, and convincing the majority of the “undecided” to support your position.

Now, using that context, what are the republicans doing today? It certainly does not qualify as an attempt to follow the concepts of “Politics 101.” Though it is not quite the exact opposite, it is clear evidence that the republican strategy is coming from a place of weakness. They are appealing only to the conspiracy theorists among their party – those who would support Trump even if republicans in the House and Senate admitted the president was 100% guilty as charged.

By today's performance, the republicans are making Trump's base their exclusive target. Attempts to muddy the waters with emotional turbulence will be unlikely to appeal to moderate republican voters. It will energize Democrats, from the grass roots to Washington, DC. And it will repulse the majority of the undecided citizens. It reeks of desperation.

Thus, it is important that we not be reactive to the republican emotion-based nonsense. We should not follow them there. There is no need to, for they are desperate. Instead, Daniel Goldman provides a proper role model here: a focused response. We can focus on exposing their weakness. In doing so, we help to protect our country from the Trump “government.”

Peace,
H2O Man

44 replies, 5898 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 44 replies Author Time Post
Reply 101 Refresher (Original post)
H2O Man Dec 2019 OP
spanone Dec 2019 #1
H2O Man Dec 2019 #2
Uncle Joe Dec 2019 #3
H2O Man Dec 2019 #11
malaise Dec 2019 #4
H2O Man Dec 2019 #13
coeur_de_lion Dec 2019 #5
H2O Man Dec 2019 #15
coeur_de_lion Dec 2019 #30
H2O Man Dec 2019 #31
coeur_de_lion Dec 2019 #33
H2O Man Dec 2019 #34
coeur_de_lion Dec 2019 #36
Ingersollman Dec 2019 #38
ChubbyStar Dec 2019 #6
H2O Man Dec 2019 #16
erronis Dec 2019 #7
H2O Man Dec 2019 #17
LakeArenal Dec 2019 #24
Auggie Dec 2019 #8
H2O Man Dec 2019 #18
Pacifist Patriot Dec 2019 #39
Auggie Dec 2019 #40
Mr.Bill Dec 2019 #9
H2O Man Dec 2019 #20
Mr.Bill Dec 2019 #28
SergeStorms Dec 2019 #10
H2O Man Dec 2019 #21
Mr.Bill Dec 2019 #29
lastlib Dec 2019 #12
H2O Man Dec 2019 #22
Auggie Dec 2019 #26
PatrickforO Dec 2019 #14
H2O Man Dec 2019 #23
erronis Dec 2019 #37
wnylib Dec 2019 #42
Martin Eden Dec 2019 #19
H2O Man Dec 2019 #25
Martin Eden Dec 2019 #35
Kurt V. Dec 2019 #27
H2O Man Dec 2019 #32
malthaussen Dec 2019 #41
wnylib Dec 2019 #43
0rganism Dec 2019 #44

Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Mon Dec 9, 2019, 05:35 PM

1. K&R...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to spanone (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 9, 2019, 05:37 PM

2. Thank you!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Mon Dec 9, 2019, 05:47 PM

3. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread H2O Man.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Uncle Joe (Reply #3)

Mon Dec 9, 2019, 07:48 PM

11. Thank you!

Heck of a day, eh?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Mon Dec 9, 2019, 05:51 PM

4. Makes sense

Comey agrees with you.
Did you hear Comey say that his mother-in-law is one of the (my words) Kool-aid drinkers?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to malaise (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 9, 2019, 07:50 PM

13. That's funny!

The cult members who would eagerly follow Trump to Guyana for a glass of Kool-aid pop up in the strangest plaves.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Mon Dec 9, 2019, 06:21 PM

5. Today was insane by any standards

Stepping and fetching like their hair was on fire and their asses were catching.

That’s a line from a funny song from the seventies. And as I listened to the republic party (they call us the democrat party like a bunch of hayseeds) that song was playing in my head. Over and over.

Only a moron would fall for their bullshit.

Good thing their party is primarily made up of morons.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to coeur_de_lion (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 9, 2019, 07:56 PM

15. It was 50% insane.

The republican lobe was firing on crazy, while the Democrats were rational and focused. It made for a curious day.

In our favorite sport, if one's opponent acts like the republicans did today, you know they are afraid. You can smell their fear. I had that happen quite a few times .....won by knockout every time.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Reply #15)

Mon Dec 9, 2019, 09:06 PM

30. Yeah scared and stupid don't go together very well

and sorry I did mean 50% of it was awful. I was at work and only listened here and there for minutes at a time. Loads of obfuscation and prevarication on the GOP side. Interrupting witnesses every 30 seconds for "points of order".

And the constant fucking roll calls. What the hell was that all about? Was that our side sticking it to the GOP because we have the majority?

The GOP are reeking of desperation so bad I can smell it all the way in Florida.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to coeur_de_lion (Reply #30)

Mon Dec 9, 2019, 09:13 PM

31. The roll calls

are a passive-aggressive to waste time. It's got the echol of a hollow threat -- the idea of putting the Democrats on record for future revenge. And it is intended to annoy. But foolish wastes of time are just that -- foolish wastes of time.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Reply #31)

Mon Dec 9, 2019, 09:20 PM

33. What are they agreeing/disagreeing to?

I actually like them in a way because every time they happen it's the Dems reminding the repigs that they now have the majority. No chance of the repigs winning.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to coeur_de_lion (Reply #33)

Mon Dec 9, 2019, 09:23 PM

34. The votes are

about republican attempts to distract from testimony.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Reply #34)

Mon Dec 9, 2019, 09:26 PM

36. Nobody would be stupid enough to fall for that

would they?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to coeur_de_lion (Reply #5)

Tue Dec 10, 2019, 10:43 AM

38. Kudos

for the shout out to the CDB and the "Uneasy Rider"!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Mon Dec 9, 2019, 06:23 PM

6. Exposing their weakness

Yes! K&R.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ChubbyStar (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 9, 2019, 07:57 PM

16. While I watched

the ending, I recognized that it is a combination of weakness and fear. Confident people don't act that way. More, if you know you are right, you don't need to yell.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Mon Dec 9, 2019, 06:56 PM

7. "moderate republican voters" - I'm mystified.

By today's performance, the republicans are making Trump's base their exclusive target. Attempts to muddy the waters with emotional turbulence will be unlikely to appeal to moderate republican voters. It will energize Democrats, from the grass roots to Washington, DC. And it will repulse the majority of the undecided citizens. It reeks of desperation.


Are there any of those alive? How would they identify themselves safely?

Maybe take a page from the old Tories and rebrand themselves as (C)onservatives?

Leave the tea-baggers and shouting idiots the proud Рepuglicon designation. After all, the rouble ₽ fits nicely with the repuglicons agenda.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to erronis (Reply #7)

Mon Dec 9, 2019, 08:00 PM

17. I think that there are.

None of them inhabit the House. And I don't think there are more than two or three in the Senate.

One of the things that I find odd is that no republican governors are speaking out. Maybe they are, off the record. Or maybe they are too afraid.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to erronis (Reply #7)

Mon Dec 9, 2019, 08:18 PM

24. I wonder if any of the cult-base are listening to any of it.

They get their sound bites from FuxYouz.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Mon Dec 9, 2019, 06:57 PM

8. I think they think extreme rage conveys sincerity; we saw it with Kavanaugh too.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Auggie (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 9, 2019, 08:01 PM

18. Exactly!

Lindsey Graham put on a shameful, diaper-rash-red-faced example.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Auggie (Reply #8)

Tue Dec 10, 2019, 11:42 AM

39. They think it conveys sincerity and strength.

They want to trigger two emotions in their base - fear and anger. They are focusing on the reptilian hind brain response to a threat and ignoring those of us who can use our more evolved frontal lobes.

The feigned outrage was designed to make people who react emotionally rather than rationally fearful and angry. And position themselves as the ones who have the strength to combat and conquer the threat.

They use what the psychologists in their think tanks know works very very well. Fortunately for us, it works on a subset of the population, not everyone.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pacifist Patriot (Reply #39)

Tue Dec 10, 2019, 12:09 PM

40. Thanks for adding this ...

I was thinking about amending my post, but you responded with such eloquence and intelligence (better than I ever could) that there's no need to. We've seen this time and again, so it must work on the reptilians out there.

Best wishes for a great day.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Mon Dec 9, 2019, 07:01 PM

9. Problem is,

gerrymandering and voter suppression throws politics 101 out the window.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mr.Bill (Reply #9)

Mon Dec 9, 2019, 08:05 PM

20. Respectfully disagree.

One need only look at the 2018 mid-terms.

Gerrymandering and voter suppression are real problems, of course. But the nest way to combat them is with Politics 101. I'd be interested if you have a better idea? We should never take an Eeyore approach. No, take a Smokin' Joe Frazier approach.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Reply #20)

Mon Dec 9, 2019, 08:47 PM

28. Politics 101 is all well and good.

I'm just saying it won't do a Democratic candidate much good in a district where 80% of the voters are wearing MAGA hats or a state where people of color are being purged from the voter rolls. Gerrymandering and voter suppression must be fought in the courts and legislative bodies on a state and federal level. Level that playing field and politics works like a charm. No one approach alone is the answer.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Mon Dec 9, 2019, 07:16 PM

10. My thoughts as well, H2O Man.

They're just throwing more red meat to their already protein-impacted base. They want to shout it as loudly and often as they can, that Donald Trump did nothing wrong, and even if he did it isn't impeachable. Democrats have been out to get Trump since the election of 2016 yada, yada, yada. Same old bullshit, over and over and over again.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to SergeStorms (Reply #10)

Mon Dec 9, 2019, 08:07 PM

21. Right.

It is difficult for me to imagine a rational person watching today and thinking, "The republicans are making a lot of sense."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Reply #21)

Mon Dec 9, 2019, 08:49 PM

29. It's difficult to imagine a rational person

ever voted for Trump in the first place. We are not dealing with rational people.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Mon Dec 9, 2019, 07:48 PM

12. GOPhers subscribe to the fallacious idea that volume equals truth.....

Last edited Tue Dec 10, 2019, 02:45 AM - Edit history (1)

They think the louder they are, the "truthier" they are (or might appear to be). If (like most of their adherents) you have the alpha waves of a turnip, that's a valid idea.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lastlib (Reply #12)

Mon Dec 9, 2019, 08:08 PM

22. Very good!

I like that.

In my life, I've encountered numerous people who resorted to yelling in debates. It was done exclusively when they knew they were wrong. Every single time.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lastlib (Reply #12)

Mon Dec 9, 2019, 08:20 PM

26. "Volume truth!!!"

+1,000,000

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Mon Dec 9, 2019, 07:55 PM

14. They are indeed surreal.

We could even say they are pandering to Trump's base, and we can definitely say this base walks around with a giant chip on its shoulder, with rage never far from the surface.

Yet where IS the logic?

Are they counting on some show of force on their behalf to cow us into obedience? A show of militia?

It is the oligarchs, the billionaire freaks, who began this coup, and they did it too soon. They realize now they did it too soon; our institutions are holding because Putin moved prematurely, before our career civil service had been sufficiently rotted from the inside.

It is unraveling, this coup, though monied interests are doing all humanly possible to get rid of the Democratic candidates that truly scare them. Bottom line, I'm thinking that the window is narrowing for the Republicans and their oligarch masters. It may be that the only thing now that can help them is some kind of armed force to keep power.

Let's hope they don't work that out.

I'd really rather the republic stayed intact, though it will take years to get it functional again after the Republican cancer that is Trumpism.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Reply #14)

Mon Dec 9, 2019, 08:15 PM

23. Great points!

Thank you. I agree completely.

Malcolm X used to teach that you strike at the puppeteer, not the puppet.Trump is the only exception at this moment. He's Putin's puppet. And so we must do battle with the republican puppets. After that, we need to address the opulently wealthy who are the puppeteers.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Reply #14)

Mon Dec 9, 2019, 09:34 PM

37. I have also wondered if they missed the good wave. They fell into a trough and will be submerged

and hopefully breathing water.

We all ascribe great capabilities to putine and the corporatist machines but they are also fallible. And perhaps a bit over-anxious. But they will keep trying, even in another time. Witness all the other failed (r)epuglicon coups.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Reply #14)

Wed Dec 11, 2019, 04:44 AM

42. Excellent points, IMO. You have summed up

the situatiion. They are anxious because the coup is incomplere snd they are facing a direct challenge to it.

"Are they counting on some show of force on their behalf to cow us into obedience? A show of militia?"

Yes, I believe they are riling up the base to an intimidating show of force. Remember the violence when the Affordable Care Act was passed? The members of Congress who received death threats because of their votes for the Act? The bricks thrown through their windows? It looks like it could happen again quite soon, after or during the House vote on the impeachment articles.

It will be intended as intimidation to any Senators entertaining the idea of voting to convict.

Yes the window is narrowing for a coup which increases the likelihood of them turning to physical intimidation. I think the hope is that people who are not so extreme but who feel compelled to choose one side or the other will be supportive.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Mon Dec 9, 2019, 08:04 PM

19. Regarding the Thomas Paine quote

“The duty of a true Patriot is to protect his country from its government.”

Though Paine spoke truly, his quote has been embraced by heavily armed "2A folks" who fancy themselves a Constitutional militia ready to rise up against a tyrannical federal government. In theory that may sound reasonable and patriotic, but in reality these groups are extreme rightwingers who are staunchly on the side of the fascist would-be tyrant who places himself above the law and threatens to destroy our Constitutional checks & balances.

I apologize for being a little off topic, but we have been fighting against the demonization of our government since Ronald Reagan declared it was the problem not the solution.

Today we have to protect our country from the head of our government, and the front line of defense in this impeachment has been manned (and womanned) by our elected representatives in the Democratic Party and by career public servants who have defended our country regardless of which party holds sway.

If we are to keep the republic bequeathed to us by our Founders, the patriots who are part of our government will be essential to the effort.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Martin Eden (Reply #19)

Mon Dec 9, 2019, 08:19 PM

25. On U2's

"Rattle and Hum," I remember hearing their cover of Helter Skeler introduced approximately this way: "This is a song Charles Manson stole from the Beatles. We're stealing it back." I agree with you that the alt-right -- actually following Putin's lead -- is actively trying to steal American symbols. That should never be an excuse for us not to use them correctly.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Reply #25)

Mon Dec 9, 2019, 09:25 PM

35. You are, of course, correct

If we fail to use them and use them correctly we will surely lose them to what we are fighting against now -- the usurpation of our national symbols and institutions by those who will destroy their true meaning and value.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Mon Dec 9, 2019, 08:26 PM

27. paine, locke, hobbes,.mill. I'm ok with them

Literally the last legitimate conservative voices

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kurt V. (Reply #27)

Mon Dec 9, 2019, 09:17 PM

32. Right.

Few if any of the republicans in DC today could be mistaken for conservatives anyhow. Certainly no efforts on their part to conserve the environment. Their most recent "tax break" isn't trickling down to lower the national debt. I heard Chris Matthews saying that a rock has been lifted, and we are seeing the grubs scurrying from underneath.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Dec 10, 2019, 02:04 PM

41. If riling their base is all they have...

... they are in for a major disappointment, IMO. A few crazies will doubtless heed the call and shoot up a few Wal-Marts, which will be lost in the general noise of our now-daily mass shootings. Of organized resistance, I expect none. Firstly, becaue the RWNJ fringe couldn't organize a two-car funeral, and secondly because, at bottom, they are cowards who will strut and bluster, but never actually do anything. Yeah, I could be wrong, but if forced to bet, that's where I'd lay my money.

It would be nice if the MSM would stop validating these clowns by repeating their increasingly incoherent "message." The world would instantly be a 100% nicer place if Donald trump were banned from Twitter.

-- Mal

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to malthaussen (Reply #41)

Wed Dec 11, 2019, 05:52 AM

43. I read some similar views about thugs not

being able to organize themselves to be effective. They came from Germans who discounted the.Brown Shirts and rheir crazy, ranting political leader.

I would rather take all threats seriously enough to be prepared and to discredit them -- early-- rather than just discount them as harmless cowards.

I learned something recently about the ability of psychological appeals to arouse even avowed pacifists to violence. In the 1920's, at the end of WW1, the German kaiser abducted and a democratic republic was formed. Going from an autocratic society and nearly absolute monarchy to the freedom in a republic was too unsettling for many people on the right. They felt insecure and
disturbed by the change in social and political norms.

The new freedoms included previously forbidden
lifestyles and expressions in art and music.

Several Mennonite communities reacted by turning to the political right to restore previous social norms. Old order Mennonites are so pacifist that they literally turn the other cheek when facing violence. They avoid politics.

Yet whole German Mennonite communities were inspired
by promises to restore social order. They became politically active. The younger ones joined the Nazi party. By the end of WW2, several Mennonites were in the Gestapo. Some were concentration camp guards.

We are not that bad off here. We.have long established institutions, but they are being eroded. What I learn from the Mennonite example is how people can radically change in circumstances that appeal to their emotions about losing social norms. They do not see that their 'remedy' strays even farther from social and moral norms.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Dec 11, 2019, 06:13 AM

44. i think their strategy is to use ugliness to make everyone tune out except the Trumpy base

like they're trying to turn our processes of governance into something akin to a WWE event. like Trump at his rallies, or the raging douchebag patrols at the impeachment hearings. make it ugly enough and you rarefy the viewership. they want to get everyone to tune out, except those who are really into raging douchebaggery. i think they're counting on people not tuning back in for the part where, as you suggest, their many weaknesses are exposed.

whatever support they lose in "undecideds" i think they intend to recover by reducing involvement from opposition and "moderates". so the enthusiastically-participating democratic core becomes mostly or entirely their base, since they're the ones interested in partaking of the WWE atmosphere.

i don't know if this strategy will work a second time, but they -- and everyone else -- knows it can work at least once, especially with a little help from Russia.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread