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Sat Dec 14, 2019, 03:02 PM

How close is America to a dictatorship?

It seems to me that the present occupant of the White House has taken total control of all the Departments of our government, including State, Defense, Homeland Security, Energy, OMB, Treasury, etc.

He also has total control of the Senate at this time. He has control of all the Republicans in the House. They have been frantically stacking the courts with their people.

The only part of government that they do not "control" at this time is the Democratic majority of the House of Representatives.

How close are we to total control by a dictator?

Not to be paranoid or unreasonably fearful, but it seems we are getting very near total control by the Chump in the White House?

115 replies, 5429 views

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Reply How close is America to a dictatorship? (Original post)
kentuck Dec 2019 OP
CrispyQ Dec 2019 #1
N_E_1 for Tennis Dec 2019 #5
Cosmocat Dec 2019 #80
dewsgirl Dec 2019 #83
Eyeball_Kid Dec 2019 #103
dewsgirl Dec 2019 #112
CrispyQ Dec 2019 #113
dewsgirl Dec 2019 #114
Kablooie Dec 2019 #89
Eyeball_Kid Dec 2019 #101
Hoyt Dec 2019 #2
milestogo Dec 2019 #13
StClone Dec 2019 #23
Hoyt Dec 2019 #58
StClone Dec 2019 #84
Eyeball_Kid Dec 2019 #104
Hoyt Dec 2019 #107
Beakybird Dec 2019 #3
ancianita Dec 2019 #29
Doremus Dec 2019 #36
DENVERPOPS Dec 2019 #38
uponit7771 Dec 2019 #4
StClone Dec 2019 #92
Eyeball_Kid Dec 2019 #105
Baked Potato Dec 2019 #6
kentuck Dec 2019 #16
pangaia Dec 2019 #17
LineLineLineReply +
doc03 Dec 2019 #35
Baked Potato Dec 2019 #100
Eyeball_Kid Dec 2019 #106
Baked Potato Dec 2019 #110
pangaia Dec 2019 #111
delisen Dec 2019 #7
yortsed snacilbuper Dec 2019 #8
overleft Dec 2019 #12
dem4decades Dec 2019 #85
scarytomcat Dec 2019 #109
Newest Reality Dec 2019 #9
kentuck Dec 2019 #25
Newest Reality Dec 2019 #27
Kitchari Dec 2019 #45
hardluck Dec 2019 #10
pangaia Dec 2019 #18
TryLogic Dec 2019 #32
BlueJac Dec 2019 #11
CanonRay Dec 2019 #14
dchill Dec 2019 #22
jpak Dec 2019 #15
Lonestarblue Dec 2019 #19
demigoddess Dec 2019 #20
Odoreida Dec 2019 #21
NJCher Dec 2019 #30
bucolic_frolic Dec 2019 #24
Kitchari Dec 2019 #44
Enoki33 Dec 2019 #26
SamKnause Dec 2019 #28
AncientGeezer Dec 2019 #31
TryLogic Dec 2019 #42
AncientGeezer Dec 2019 #49
SammyWinstonJack Dec 2019 #99
CaptainTruth Dec 2019 #33
TryLogic Dec 2019 #43
JoeOtterbein Dec 2019 #34
Karadeniz Dec 2019 #37
coti Dec 2019 #40
coti Dec 2019 #39
Jedi Guy Dec 2019 #41
JonLP24 Dec 2019 #46
roamer65 Dec 2019 #47
Ohioboy Dec 2019 #48
tritsofme Dec 2019 #50
AncientGeezer Dec 2019 #54
obnoxiousdrunk Dec 2019 #63
Skittles Dec 2019 #51
Garrett78 Dec 2019 #52
AncientGeezer Dec 2019 #56
Garrett78 Dec 2019 #57
AncientGeezer Dec 2019 #61
Garrett78 Dec 2019 #62
AncientGeezer Dec 2019 #64
Garrett78 Dec 2019 #65
AncientGeezer Dec 2019 #68
Garrett78 Dec 2019 #69
AncientGeezer Dec 2019 #70
Garrett78 Dec 2019 #71
AncientGeezer Dec 2019 #73
Garrett78 Dec 2019 #74
AncientGeezer Dec 2019 #75
roamer65 Dec 2019 #60
handmade34 Dec 2019 #90
zaj Dec 2019 #53
A HERETIC I AM Dec 2019 #55
Sophia_Of_PlanetX Dec 2019 #59
KentuckyWoman Dec 2019 #66
KY_EnviroGuy Dec 2019 #67
Bradshaw3 Dec 2019 #78
AncientGeezer Dec 2019 #81
Efilroft Sul Dec 2019 #72
Faux pas Dec 2019 #76
Thomas Hurt Dec 2019 #77
brooklynite Dec 2019 #79
Hoyt Dec 2019 #91
AncientGeezer Dec 2019 #82
democratisphere Dec 2019 #86
AncientGeezer Dec 2019 #93
democratisphere Dec 2019 #95
AncientGeezer Dec 2019 #115
KPN Dec 2019 #87
democratisphere Dec 2019 #88
Marthe48 Dec 2019 #94
California_Republic Dec 2019 #96
hughee99 Dec 2019 #97
moondust Dec 2019 #98
lark Dec 2019 #102
scarytomcat Dec 2019 #108

Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 03:06 PM

1. If the GOP keeps the Senate & the WH, it's game over for the US as we know it, IMO.

I don't believe we'll survive another four years of this. The House just isn't enough to stave off the damage that is Trump/Barr/McConnell.

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Response to CrispyQ (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 03:17 PM

5. +++++++++++++

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Response to CrispyQ (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 08:48 PM

80. Yep

And even if we win POTUS, no sure bet we get him out, particularly if its a small margin.

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Response to CrispyQ (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 08:53 PM

83. You are correct, if he wins next year it is over.😔

Even if we take back the Senate, that may not be enough. Although I'm certain he couldn't handle it.

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Response to dewsgirl (Reply #83)

Sun Dec 15, 2019, 01:17 PM

103. There will be no victories for the Democrats if the Senate acquits.

The elections will be fixed, just like they're fixed in Russia. Democrats will NOT take back the Senate as we know it. They will not have an effective majority in the House as we know it. Why?

Because it will already be established that the Legislative Branch is inferior to the Executive Branch, and that the Executive Branch can overrule any decisions by Congress my mere decree. That's what's happening RIGHT NOW, AND IT WILL CONTINUE in even more pervasive ways.

Trumpy's dismissal of all Congressional inquiries is the beginning of the end. If the Senate acquits, they will have tacitly approved of Trumpy's codification of an autocratic dictatorship. And that will be the end of the Bill of Rights and free and fair elections. It won't happen in November, 2020. It will happen in January or February, just a few weeks away.

There were plenty of smart people, back in the early 1980s, who anticipated this moment in the nation's history. They anticipated that Reagan's approach to governing and his ability to persuade "conservatives" to concur with his "government IS the problem" meme would eventually lead to fascism.

Here we are. We are standing at the abyss. And an acquittal will take us over the edge.

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Response to Eyeball_Kid (Reply #103)

Sun Dec 15, 2019, 02:17 PM

112. I keep hoping something huge comes to light before the

the Senate has the opportunity to acquit. We all know there is tons out there even worse, than what he is being tried for. I'm trying to keep hope alive, all sorts of scenarios could play out. He could drop dead at any moment, flee the country, give Alaska back to Russia, etc...surely there are endless possibilities, however unlikely.😔

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Response to dewsgirl (Reply #112)

Sun Dec 15, 2019, 08:28 PM

113. "He could drop dead at any moment..."

That's what I'm hoping for. Seriously, it's the best option. Although look for cult45 to blame Obama or HRC & try to charge them for murder. No fucking shit.

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Response to CrispyQ (Reply #113)

Sun Dec 15, 2019, 09:22 PM

114. I've thought about that..I'll take my chances.

He has to go..better that way. Before he attempts a violent coup, I have days where I can't but feel, this is where we may be headed. These religious wackadoos surrounding him aren't doing this for God, they are consolidating power.

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Response to CrispyQ (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 09:06 PM

89. If Trump gets a second term he's likely to get a third and fourth as well.

The Constitution be damned. It's what the leader wants that counts.

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Response to CrispyQ (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 15, 2019, 01:07 PM

101. The country won't survive an acquittal. Dictatorship is imminent.

This is no joke, it's not a reality show. It IS reality.

There will not be another four years of Constitutional government to survive. There will be no Constitution. There will be autocratic rule.

BTW, what's grossly unnerving is the current framing, by the punditry, of a government without a Constitution. It's meekly referred to in the media as a transition to a "Monarchy." That sounds so beneficent, doesn't it?

But there's no indication that anyone really wants a Monarchy. Even Trumpy doesn't want a Monarchy. HE WANTS TO BE AN AUTOCRATIC DICTATOR.

The Flapjaw Class is trying to frame an acquittal as some kind of reiteration of or return to the English royalty system.

Oh, how romantic! A "Monarchy" removes all of the hard edges of what's really transpiring: an autocratic dictatorship. There will be no pomp and circumstance of a British royalty. There will only be Trumpy plotting a world oligopoly in which he, Putin, the Saudis, and other obscenely wealthy autocrats are in control of ALL economic and political processes.

If civil rights (i.e. The Bill of Rights) get in the way, they will be swiftly eliminated. THAT'S how it works, that's what history tells us, and that's what will happen.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 03:08 PM

2. We've got cruddy leadership right now, but don't feel we are close to a dictatorship. GOPers said

same about Obama.

In any event, if we vote next November, we'll depose the cruddy leadership.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 04:59 PM

13. Please. What GOPers said about Obama was pure nonsense.

There is NO comparison.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 05:31 PM

23. No comparison

Obama speak was designed to deride, defame, deny or destroy our real POTUS. If I am denied to say that Trump is DAMN near Nero and we are dangerously close to sliding into a dictatorship (with Fascistic tendencies), it then appears some are playing both-siderism to the death of us all.

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Response to StClone (Reply #23)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 06:57 PM

58. No one said you are denied saying trump is close to a dictator. I just think

thatís hyperbole and doesnít help convince anyone that trump is sorry-assed leader.

He will leave office in 2021, or 2025 if we donít get out the vote. Thatís not a dictator.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #58)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 08:55 PM

84. If you say we both do it

You are.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 15, 2019, 01:22 PM

104. What election? Do you really think that Dictator Donnie will allow

a free and fair election? Sure. Only if he is guaranteed a win.

But there will not be a guaranteed win if the election bares a semblance of a free and fair one. So Trumpy has been working on a successful CHEAT since his inauguration. He will not stand for an election in which he can lose. He has all of the necessary levers of power to manipulate the election from many possible angles.

An acquittal makes all of this possible. An acquittal will kill the Constitution.

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Response to Eyeball_Kid (Reply #104)

Sun Dec 15, 2019, 01:43 PM

107. You can sit home and encourage people not to waste time voting if you like, I'm not. We won 2018,

2008, 2012, by getting out the vote. We would have won 2016 had people not protested by not voting or voting 3rd Party, even with Russia, trump lies, Comey, etc.

It's really simple -- Vote!

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 03:13 PM

3. I think we're closer than most people think.

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Response to Beakybird (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 05:38 PM

29. MUCH closer than people want to believe.



Iíd hate for millions to realize too late just what their unconsciousness has cost their children and grandchildren.

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Response to Beakybird (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 05:52 PM

36. This, unfortunately. :(

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Response to Beakybird (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 05:56 PM

38. Amen to that Bb

A lot closer,.........We are a micro-millimeter away from a Republican check-mate & their Republican Fascist Dictatorship Coup will be installed...

No one should, in reality, be looking forward to Nov 3rd, and esp Nov 4th.......It will be unlike anything ever seen in this Country....

WASF

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 03:16 PM

4. Our 70 yr president harasses 16 yr old girls on twitter & that's not disqualifying to his supporters

... we're not in a dictatorship yet but we sure are witnessing a cult.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #4)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 09:24 PM

92. IF his followers can do that they are capable of anything

When 43% believe Trump would be more effective without the constraints of the courts or Senate, they got a mindset towards what? I was told above it's hyperbolic to think this is not just another political election in 2020.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #4)

Sun Dec 15, 2019, 01:24 PM

105. Again, ONE event will solidify an autocratic dictatorship:

Acquittal.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 03:20 PM

6. He only has temporary control

There is immense pushback at every level. His hasnít solidified a Staff beyond a couple aids and his offspring. His cabinet level managers have been forced to leave in disgrace. He has anonymous insiders watching his every move. Most of his military moves have been delayed, rescinded, changed, or outright ignored. In shear numbers, he is overpowered. He is being sued and investigated for just about everything he has ever done.

I do expect him to become increasingly paranoid and vile. He will stop at nothing to save himself and/or his family from financial ruin or prison. Every bit of our patience and determination will be tried by him.

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Response to Baked Potato (Reply #6)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 05:03 PM

16. Thanks BP !

"increasingly paranoid and vile"

Agree.

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Response to Baked Potato (Reply #6)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 05:05 PM

17. He doesn't need numbers. Just crooks in the right places. And he now has that in spades.

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Response to pangaia (Reply #17)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 05:52 PM

35. +

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Response to pangaia (Reply #17)

Sun Dec 15, 2019, 12:55 PM

100. We have to keep on keeping on

We are stronger. We have reality, they have make believe.

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Response to Baked Potato (Reply #6)

Sun Dec 15, 2019, 01:26 PM

106. Dictatorships NEVER are backed by a majority of populations.

It's ALWAYS a minority rule.

That's what's coming with an acquittal. It's as plain and predictable as the sunrise.

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Response to Eyeball_Kid (Reply #106)

Sun Dec 15, 2019, 02:04 PM

110. I see your point

And I also think Americans love freedom and will reject a Dictatorship. Trump, at least is bringing it all to a head. I expect him to be beat back.

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Response to Eyeball_Kid (Reply #106)

Sun Dec 15, 2019, 02:10 PM

111. yeah, hate to agree with you...

but i do

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 03:26 PM

7. Fairly Close

The courts are being packed with ideological unqualified judges. executive branch being hollowed out, it appears we cannot retake the senate it 2020, and we are being told that Russia is to be a factor again in 2020.

I believe our position is precarious because a significant part of the electorate is seeking the simplicity of authoritarian rule by a strongman and may other governments face the same threat.

I believe the battle will not be won unless we face the facts and are prepared to confront and be forceful but non-violent.

We need to engage totally now because the situation will become increasing precarious as the reality of climate change will be upon us and authoritarians will double down on the desire for totalitarian "strongman' rule.




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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 03:27 PM

8. Like what happened in Germany during the 1930's and 1940's,

letting a mad man take over the country.

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Response to yortsed snacilbuper (Reply #8)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 04:59 PM

12. Sadly, we are witnessing a facist cult take over our country

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Response to overleft (Reply #12)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 08:55 PM

85. I always wondered how it happened in Germany. Never did I think a spineless, coward like McConnel

Would be behind the destroying of a nation. I was wrong.

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Response to dem4decades (Reply #85)

Sun Dec 15, 2019, 02:00 PM

109. and McConnel laughs about screwing Obama

It should be used against him and his ilk
This all is unamerican, sadly.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 03:50 PM

9. I would venture that...

we are as close as the GOP collectively wants to take us as a means to wrest power from our system in order to prevent their growing irrelevance and obsolescence from dissolving the party or breaking it up in the next decade or two.

I think they see this clearly and that progress itself will prove to be too much for a dinosaur party that is becoming more dissonant and counter-productive than ever. It is hard for them to deflect that fact. This last gasp may take some time, but it may yield to either the gradual emergence of a new opposition party or a breakup and reformation of what we now call the GOP. It ain't grand anymore. It's a pathetic disgrace in so many ways you need an whole article to illustrate that.

We are also only as close as we let this go. I just have to emphasize that, despite the media, squabbles, propaganda, fake news, whatever, this is based mostly in our minds and hearts first and foremost. Where did most everything in the room you see right now come from initially? Somebody's mind had the idea and then it was produced, not the other way around. Did the country create the Constitution or did the Founders?

It should be obvious that our collective mindset creates our narrative and we can frame it from that, not merely the events and behaviors that corporate media tends to emphasize, nor from the opposition party having a group mental breakdown as the death knell rings out and they shriek and gyrate while sinking into a pit of their own making. Our enemies, (if that term is relevant) are fear, confusion and our own projection, and maybe a bit of laziness or distraction.

I encourage all of our members and our party to forge a collective vision that becomes a persistent and easily recognizable narrative around which we all can gather for inspiration and confidence. That's vitally important when the circumstances are so grievous and and emotionally taxing.

I don't don't place much value in false hopes and positive thinking, or even ideologies, per se, but surely we can use optimistic facts and informed intentions to frame a blueprint for victory together as a consortium of real patriots who will preserve our system and even manage to expand and improve it because of this challenge we face together. I think our Founders would agree and could empathize with this challenge we face.

This is truly a time for vision, unity, conviction and solidarity.

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Response to Newest Reality (Reply #9)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 05:31 PM

25. A thoughtful post

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Response to kentuck (Reply #25)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 05:36 PM

27. Thanks kentuck!

Glad you thought so.

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Response to Newest Reality (Reply #9)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 06:11 PM

45. Agree

This is a time for vision and strength

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 03:56 PM

10. Nowhere near

All the departments you mentioned are part of the executive branch, so yeah he has control of them.

As to Congress, Dems controlled the house and Senate in 2009-11 and had the presidency. Certainly wouldn't say we were "near a dictatorship" during that time except from the right.

This will all pass soon...

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Response to hardluck (Reply #10)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 05:08 PM

18. THAT was TOTALLY different. We didn;t WANT a dictatorship. Republicans DO.


This will not soon pass. we are 1 inch from being fucked... maybe closer..

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Response to hardluck (Reply #10)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 05:49 PM

32. "Nowhere near"??

I find that pretty naive.

Many of his people are "acting," never approved by the Senate, although the Senate Republicans are just a bunch of Trump boot lickers. And Moscow Mitch is in Putin's pocket.

Trump has shared intelligence info with Russians and others with no consequences.

AG Barr is extremely dangerous due to his position and power. And he appears to be crooked as hell, that is, not interested in preserving democracy and seriously lacking in integrity.

Gerrymandering is still serious in spite of a couple of wins.

I say Republicans can smell one party rule (which is their foolish interpretation of what Trump is aiming for), and that is why they are so brazen at trying to finish it off. I think it is possible that many GOP critters are totally unaware of Trump's apparent objective of joining the international club of dictators.

GOP critters may also think that they can let Trump lead them to one party rule, then they can pull the country back from all out dictatorship. They may think they can use him, them push him aside. Sounds foolish, and extremely risky, not to mention insanely unAmerican.

Or maybe it is simple. Maybe they are just greedy, self-serving, power seeking jerks. In any case, we need to take our current predicament very seriously.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 04:57 PM

11. On the brink.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 05:00 PM

14. They are actively trying to strip the House of all power

to challenge him. I think we are damn close.

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Response to CanonRay (Reply #14)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 05:30 PM

22. And they've already sacrificed their own.

We are on the brink.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 05:02 PM

15. After acquittal - it will be

He will know he can get away with anything - nicluding murder on 5th Ave - no more checks and balances.

Yup

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 05:10 PM

19. We have until June of next year.

IF the Supreme Court decides that no sitting (Republican) president can be indicted or even investigated for any crime, then we have a complete takeover by a dictator. We have one opportunity in November 2020. If we fail to gain the presidency and at least keep the House, the American experiment will be over. Four more years of Trump will result in utter destruction of any democratic ideals or norms. Given the makeup of the Supreme Court, I am not optimistic because the majority now seems to favor rule by the corporate class of wealthy white people. I still have hope, but 2020 is the most important election of my lifetime.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 05:12 PM

20. too close

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 05:19 PM

21. Dictatorship?

 

It looks to me more like what we are headed for is chaos.

Not that the Republicans are trying for chaos, only that it's what we will really get.

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Response to Odoreida (Reply #21)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 05:39 PM

30. I was going to say something close to this

Trump is in no way, shape, or form the kind of leader who can take over a country as described in the OP. He is a disorganized mess. He is mentally ill. A lot of people see this and many are in a position to do something about it.

Still--chaos can do us a lot of damage. It already has done us a lot of damage.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 05:31 PM

24. Take what hope you can from

the progress we made in the House, and in state houses and governorships. We are winning elections. It's by no means certain we will have elections in 2020, but it's still likely. Several states held by Democrats are large, strong states. I think we gained 8 governorhips in 2019? California, New York, Virginia, and to some degree Pennsylvania and the midwest haev made stateside progress as well.

What will happen with the Federal government is anyone's guess. We didn't want this, but in some ways we earned it. We were not vigilant, we as a Democratic Party were not focused on ideology to counter the opposition, we were focused too much on policy and outcomes and were blocked by minorities at times, and McConnell.

One party control is what we must fight. I think our party is too focused on money, and not enough on articulating ideology to educate and change voters' minds. But then again, money is free speech, so let's get all we can.

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Response to bucolic_frolic (Reply #24)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 06:09 PM

44. Thank you for this n/t

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 05:34 PM

26. The survival of our democracy depends on the rule of law. The enemies

within and without are fully aware of this, and concentrate their greatest efforts in destructive politics there. In the final analysis, if we cannot go to the Supreme Court, where can we go?

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 05:37 PM

28. Too damn close.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 05:41 PM

31. "How close are we to total control by a dictator?"

 

A metric shit ton away....what would make you ask that delusional question?

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Response to AncientGeezer (Reply #31)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 06:09 PM

42. Looking for some naive, gullible readers?

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Response to TryLogic (Reply #42)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 06:28 PM

49. Yeah....I hear you....but damn...it's out there...tin foil territory.

 

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Response to AncientGeezer (Reply #31)

Sun Dec 15, 2019, 10:47 AM

99. Right?

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 05:51 PM

33. How close? Very far away.

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Response to CaptainTruth (Reply #33)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 06:09 PM

43. Looking for some naive, gullible readers?

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 05:52 PM

34. June! nt

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 05:53 PM

37. Are we not there? The Senate has promised a kangaroo court for acquittal of a dictator.

McConnell brags and jokes about neutralizing a duly elected president, Obama. Half the country ascribes to state propaganda. The DoJ does not protect laws and obstructs revealing that Trump is illegitimate. Nepotism. Cronyism.

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Response to Karadeniz (Reply #37)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 05:58 PM

40. But...we KNOW that. And, as long as we know, isn't there always time to fix it? nt

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 05:57 PM

39. It's not that close, because the truth is still winning.

That's what holds up democracy, not the government itself.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 06:08 PM

41. I don't think we're close to a dictatorship.

Trump lacks one vital thing that all dictators must have in order to gain/keep their grip on power: widespread support in the upper echelons of the military. The military tends to break conservative/GOP, yes, but I don't think for a moment that they'd blithely go along with it if Trump suspended all elections and declared himself President-for-Life. He may be somewhat popular among the rank and file, but I don't think there's much love for him among the officer corps.

The alarmism in this thread is kinda, well... alarming. I'm reminded of the breathless hysterics during the Bush years, when people were certain that progressives were mere days away from being rounded up and thrown into camps. I'm also reminded of the equally breathless hysterics on the right during the Obama years. The party/ideology out of power always has a tendency to hyperventilate about the other side bringing down the curtain on democracy.

The House looks to be firmly in Democratic hands for the foreseeable future, and House GOPers are abandoning ship and retiring. They're up to what, 20-something pending retirements now? The Senate may switch hands, but no guarantee. Ditto the Presidency, because when the economy is strong, the incumbent has that as an advantage, although it's worth noting that that applies to Presidents who don't have Dolt 45's horrific (and well-earned) unfavorable/unlikable numbers.

As an aside, it's worth noting, I think, that CNN ran a series not very long ago called the Fractured States of America. In that series, they had some interesting study results. One of the statistics I found interesting was that each side vastly overestimates the ideological extremity of the other. Another was that, when asked if the country would be better off if members of the opposing party "just died," 15% of Republicans said yes.

Anyone want to guess what percentage of Democratic respondents said yes?

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Response to Jedi Guy (Reply #41)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 06:15 PM

46. I don't remember progressives saying that during the Bush years

I signed up here myself right before Obama won. What I do remember is Jade Helm conspiracy theories where conservatives would be rounded up in concentration camps. I came across Alex Jones true believers and they are far more scarier people than progressives.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 06:24 PM

47. Dictatorship? Not very close. Yugoslavia-style break up? Very close.

There are regions of the country that will not stay in the Union if that orange anus steals the next election.

The U.K. is in the same boat with England vs Scotland.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 06:24 PM

48. I've been asking the same question lately, especially with Bill Barr's recent actions

It doesn't matter what the IG report says. It didn't matter what the Mueller report said either. Barr simply lies and inserts his twisted narrative that the investigators are the real criminals. I'm worried that if they can convince enough people to go against the checks and balances our founders put in place, it could open the door to a dictatorship. That's my opinion.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 06:29 PM

50. Not close. In fact the question, if asked in good faith, is quite absurd.

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Response to tritsofme (Reply #50)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 06:46 PM

54. Exactly....

 

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Response to tritsofme (Reply #50)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 07:22 PM

63. Spoiler you ...

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 06:33 PM

51. America is stronger than Donald Fucking Trump

yes indeed

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 06:40 PM

52. What we're close to becoming is a failed state, not a dictatorship.

The US Constitution has been exposed as weak (not a huge surprise given that the US was founded upon the genocide of one people and the enslavement of another, while the founders went out of their way to protect slave states and white males). We have a tyranny of the minority political system that can't really be reformed for the very reasons why it needs to be reformed. There's little accountability for corruption at the highest levels, while injustice reigns supreme for everyone else, especially persons of color. Citizens United is a disaster. Wealth inequality is out of control. Our media and schools are failing us, as the public is stunningly ignorant, and 40+ percent of the voting-age population doesn't vote. Foreign adversaries have clearly infiltrated 1 of the 2 major political parties.

And then there's climate change.

There may be a glimmer of hope if Trump is soundly defeated next year, but it's hard to envision a bright future without a major systemic overhaul, which is hard to envision for reasons already stated.

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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #52)


Response to AncientGeezer (Reply #56)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 06:55 PM

57. You could just respond to the points made instead of engaging in ad hominem attacks.

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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #57)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 07:19 PM

61. Not at all ad hominem ...just calling out BS when it's presented.

 

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Response to AncientGeezer (Reply #61)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 07:20 PM

62. It was completely ad hominem, as you are yet to address a single point made.

You've attacked the messenger, while failing to refute the message. Try again.

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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #62)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 07:24 PM

64. You didn't make a point...you uttered debunked talking points.

 

The 2 are not the same...

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Response to AncientGeezer (Reply #64)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 07:25 PM

65. You clearly have no argument. Goodbye.

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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #65)


Response to AncientGeezer (Reply #68)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 07:33 PM

69. LOL. Nice try. You've continually refused to do anything but engage in ad hominem attacks.

I've invited you more than once to actually put forth an argument, and you continue to offer nothing but cop-outs.

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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #69)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 07:47 PM

70. Really??? What argument do you want..that you're dead wrong? You are.

 

I'm not going to bag you to the point of getting a hide post....that's too easy.
The proof is no one else is backing the crap you posted....not ONE poster...you flail on your own....with zero back up...
I'm good......I'm right

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Response to AncientGeezer (Reply #70)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 07:53 PM

71. The vast majority of posts don't get read, much less receive a reply. That's the best you can do?

But you've replied to me 5 times now without offering anything but ad hominem attacks and cop-outs, which amount to "I could so win this argument but I won't bother trying." LOL

And your penchant for ad hominem attacks is evidenced by your suggestion that you can't accept my repeated invitation to put forth an actual argument without getting your post hidden. "I'm not going to bag you to the point of getting a hide post." How pathetic.

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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #71)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 08:03 PM

73. You lose G78....start a thread....with this BS...I'll be glad to knock it out

 

Not here where no one can see it....I want you to put it where it can be seen, front page..not 60 posts down......3-4th page...put it it front and center...start a thread so it's open for all to see.

This will be fun....I do this for fun..I'll keep checking to see if you do..I bet you don't.

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Response to AncientGeezer (Reply #73)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 08:06 PM

74. LOL. You lost after your first reply. Cop-outs and ad hominem is all you've got. And contradictions.

First, it's "nobody has backed up your post" (that's 60 posts down).

Now, it's "I'm not going to reply 60 posts down where nobody will see my post."

LMFAO

6 replies and still nothing of substance. Bye, Felicia.

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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #74)


Response to Garrett78 (Reply #52)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 07:10 PM

60. You are right on slavery.

Bringing Africans over for the purpose of slavery was a calculated decision by European settlers, based on the near extermination of Native Americans by European diseases. Nearly 90 percent of Native Americans were wiped out in the years following the Spanish coming to the Americas.

If you canít have indigenous slaves, you import them.



Horrible, horrible legacy.

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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #52)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 09:09 PM

90. ...

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 06:40 PM

53. It's all about the courts

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 06:51 PM

55. This -----

This -----> <------ close


I really don't think there needs to be any other illustration.

If anyone thinks that Americans are somehow immune to it, and somehow magically different than the Cubans of 1955, the Germans of 1931, the Chileans of the early 70's, etc. etc. etc. ad nauseam, they are sorely mistaken.

Trump is using a very well read, incredibly dog-eared playbook, and almost half of the American electorate is willingly falling for it, hook, line and sinker.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 06:59 PM

59. Imo, while Trump isn't a dictator,

he showed us what we all feared: A large segment of the population craves / would ardently support a dictatorship. Trump may leave office, but this is a horrible sign for the future. The myths of American exceptionalism and unity were promptly extinguished on election night, and its unlikely we will ever be the same.

There is a persistent rot in 21st century America. We are seething with hatred towards each other.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 07:25 PM

66. The only way to get dictatorship is to take the guns from Trumpers.

That won't happen.
After the dictator comes for everyone else he'd have to go for the trumpers... and that would not be well received.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 07:26 PM

67. Not going to happen and here's why.

We're already living in a plutocracy with a facade of democracy. A dictatorship requires absolute control by an individual or a very tiny group with one person as a head who yields to no one. The plutocrat class could never yield to any individual to control their empires. They're simply too diverse, narcissistic, individualistic and greedy.

A large cadre of high-wealth individuals currently controls virtually every aspect of our lives. Their only commonality is maximizing profits, gaining increasing control of the earth's resources and increasing their grip on world governments. Thank goodness they're not organized into a group. The GOP has long been owned by that group along with a large array of think tanks and media outlets. However, the GOP cannot govern and are nothing without funding from the plutocrats.

We might well degenerate into what appears to be a dictatorship but that would be a facade as well. We might take note of Trump's gyrating efforts at keeping some of the world's plutocrats happy. Conflicts abound.

We do still have those final firewalls of protection with the purse strings, mass strikes and a fair number of good judges.

KY rant done.......

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Response to KY_EnviroGuy (Reply #67)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 08:43 PM

78. Good point n/t

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Response to Bradshaw3 (Reply #78)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 08:49 PM

81. HOW???

 

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 07:56 PM

72. We'll be a gnat's eyelash away from it if the Democratic candidate loses the presidential election.

Right now, we're two gnat's eyelashes away.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 08:38 PM

76. I think

we're already there, it just hasn't registered yet.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 08:43 PM

77. One Supreme Court decision

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 08:45 PM

79. He had "total control" in 2017-2018 and we're still here...

I've lived in a Dictatorship. This isn't one.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #79)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 09:12 PM

91. Exactly.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 08:51 PM

82. Not at all....not even close.

 

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 08:56 PM

86. Already are a dictatorship and will be as long as the rethuglicons are in charge.

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Response to democratisphere (Reply #86)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 09:28 PM

93. We have the House....we are stopping him..Speaker Pelosi is allowing a "dictatorship"...no

 

Please.

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Response to AncientGeezer (Reply #93)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 09:34 PM

95. Check back with me in January 2020 after Moscow Mitch and the rethuglicons

vindicate THIS criminal dictator.

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Response to democratisphere (Reply #95)

Wed Dec 18, 2019, 03:11 PM

115. The Senate isn't going to remove the Orange asswagon...that's baked in.

 

In November 2020..we end his shitshow by voting

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 08:57 PM

87. And who would have ever thought it would be this

moron who would be able to do it?

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Response to KPN (Reply #87)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 09:00 PM

88. It takes moronic voters to elect a moron.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 09:32 PM

94. I'm worried

I keep hoping that the cavalry will arrive. Such a slender blue line holding the criminals in check. I think that the country had problems prior to the passage of the 17th Amendment in 1913. The U.S. Senators were about as elitist as the ones we have now.

And I think in the 1930's and 1960s, organized crime seemed to be getting the upper hand.

I am hoping that the CIA, FBI and other bodies are helping the Democratic Representatives thwart the repuke/mafia/russian mob effort to reduce our country to rubble.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Dec 15, 2019, 12:49 AM

96. Well we are a union of states.

Well we are a union of states.

In the states hold much power too.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Dec 15, 2019, 01:09 AM

97. Surely the next Dem president to get elected won't be in charge

Of all the executive branch agencies, right? Who should be in charge of them?

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Dec 15, 2019, 02:05 AM

98. Maybe closer to anarchy.

If the pResident doesn't have to be a law-abiding citizen then why should anybody else have to be? Ignore the laws? Ignore the cops? Ignore the tax man? Forget about rules and norms and civility?

Isn't that what Pooty wants? Isn't that what Bannon wants with his "deconstruction of the administrative state": the end of government and "society"?

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Dec 15, 2019, 01:08 PM

102. When SCOTUS rules that drumpf does not have to comply with subpoenas, we will be there -

officially! All that will be missing is the final epitaph that SCOTUS rules the law doesn't apply to the repug in charge, and we are there. They telegrahed they'd do this when they took the 3 cases, kept holds on all, & didn't expedite the rulings - plainly showing they are helping out drumpf and repugs steal the next election.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Dec 15, 2019, 01:53 PM

108. very close ... this election will tell the future

are we to be a pirate nation that preys on the world and sells lies and death
or spreads peace, love and work with the rest of the world to end this fossil fuel madness
I hope people see thru this game that the rethugs are running on we the people and sent them packing

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