John Dean says don't send Impeachment to the Senate!

[bucolic_frolic]

Link to tweet

John Dean
@JohnWDean
Hope @SpeakerPelosi
will not play into Mitch’s hands, and allow the GOP Senate to exonerate Trump for his crimes. This is how to stop it. Impeach, don’t send to the Senate and continue to investigate! Make it a campaign issue. Senate is rigged. Stop the crowning of King Donald!

Link to tweet

Will Bunch
🆘
@Will_Bunch
We the people - the majority that backs impeachment - and the Dems need to take control back from a GOP that wants a sham trial. I agree w/ @johnwdean
-- impeach, humiliate POTUS, don't send it to McConnell, keep probing and hit the streets. My new column

[Garrett78]

1. I see the wisdom in what he's saying, but I don't see that happening.

[Eliot Rosewater]

2. Yeah, and if we do that putin and his team will come up with some bad press for us.

Lose lose, terrible times ahead.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

31. And if we do it the other way Putin and his team will come up with bad press for us.

So the question remains, which puts more pressure on Trump, vindication by a sham Senate trial or an open impeachment with ongoing investigations? I'll go with John Dean on this one.

[Eliot Rosewater]

85. Oh I am with Dean also, I am just saying NO MATTER what we do, we can count on it

YOu all know rudy is about to come back with a movie of lies that half the country will believe..are we ready to deal with it?

[moondust]

3. I like it.

But one DUer told me it can't be stopped once it passes in the House.

[bucolic_frolic]

5. I doubt that

the timing could be critical in the coming election year. Maybe these charges and the Mueller Report, and the crooked people protecting Trump - Barr, McConnell, Graham - maybe it would be good if it festered in the public consciousness for awhile. Let them stew in their own juices. Let the public get up a head of steam. Because what we're headed for is a Stalinesque Show Trial where the outcome is known before the trial begins. It would be a whitewashing of the impeachment charges every bit akin to Barr's White Wash of the Mueller Report.

[moondust]

11. "Stalinesque" indeed.

Totalitarian bullshit that will likely get worse after the Senate finds him "totally innocent in a fake witch hunt."

[Beartracks]

4. We should wait for the 2020 elections so The People can decide what kind of Senate they want.

It's not fair to America for a lame duck Senate to hold the trial. There's precedent for that from... Mitch McConnell!

Well, that, PLUS the Senate under Republican rule has already said they can't be impartial because they have to put party over the Constitution.

=========

[bucolic_frolic]

7. +100x

There you go! Excellent. Mitch's own criteria!

[2naSalit]

18. It's not even party over Constitution

It's trump over Constitution.

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

75. Great idea...

Use their own tactics.

[CaptYossarian]

76. During Watergate, we had U.S. senators. Now we have Republicans and normal people.

[elleng]

6. YES, especially considering mcc's statement

(and that of others NOT willing to serve as honest jurors.)

[roamer65]

8. Keep investigating and adding to the articles of impeachment.

It will drive the fucker berserk.

[bucolic_frolic]

10. LOL absolutely true!

It's political jiu-jitsu, refusing to play into the rigged Senate trial. Imagine Trump's anger at not being perfect!

[2naSalit]

19. And not getting his way.

He'll be so busy screaming shit about the delay that he won't be able to focus. But Congress, well the House, will have to focus on tying his hands at every move he makes.

[fierywoman]

36. I love this idea. Two articles now. Two in Jan. Three in Feb . etc etc.

[Pachamama]

50. Rolling Impeachment's....

I actually think this would be great and get it all in the historical record and for the world to know and to remind everyone, but especially the GOP and Trump daily as he goes on crimping that he is being held accountable and being watched...

[fierywoman]

52. Yes yes yes! Imagine where we'd be in June and then the Supreme Court made him release

his taxes ...

[Pachamama]

53. +1000000

Exactly

Strategically - I see this quite literally as the best option

[onetexan]

55. +1 -K&R

[MFM008]

65. Great idea

[BigmanPigman]

9. Charlie Sykes is also for the idea.

I heard him on MSNBC this week. I have been a fan of the idea for a few weeks when I first heard it mentioned as a possibility.

[onenote]

12. Not a chance in the world this would happen.

Pelosi made the call to push forward with a vote on impeachment. Once that call was made, rather than continuing to investigate before adopting any articles, there was no chance she would support the unprecedented, and politically stupid, decision to stall the process.

As I've pointed out, Pelosi can't prevent a vote from taking place on a resolution to deliver the articles to the Senate. And there is no way most Democrats who voted for impeachment are going to vote against sending the articles to the Senate.

Schumer has already sent McConnell a letter setting out a proposed schedule for a trial starting the first week in January. If you think he didn't coordinate that with Pelosi, you have no idea how things actually work.

[struggle4progress]

15. +

[Mersky]

44. Okay, maybe so. Even though he announced through THE cable subscription channel

fox news, that he wouldn't take the oath for the trial of the president seriously? I don't get fox, on purpose. Does mcconnell just get to announce to a segment of the population that he gets to cheat Americans with real concern about the security of their elections after all we've seen from the man in the White House?

That was just last Thursday night mcconnell did that. Before the committee even voted on it. He can't be allowed to neuter the trial before it even starts? Can he? That's not how this works, that's not the pact he already swore to in his oath as senator. Didn't he just take his oath again last January? How can even qualify to take the oath for the trial in the Senate?

Now, I respect the Madame Speaker, Senate Majority Leader, Committee Chairmen, and all the savvy Democrats in Congress (which I've seen countless hours of in recent weeks), and am in full support of their decisions. I don't think it hurts to raise the question now, as mcconnell just announced he won't run a fair trial.

__
Thanks for your post, Onenote, is thought-provoking, and raised a lot of questions for me.

[CaptainTruth]

13. So let all the GOP Senators off the hook? Don't force them to defend Trump?

How in the hell does that help us? Why would we want to help Republican Senators like that???

We should force them to defend the Trump Titanic as a seaworthy vessel & cling to the hull as the whole damn mess sinks beneath the waves, taking them with it.

[Duppers]

43. The trial won't sink the tRump Titanic.

That's the point, the end game.

[James48]

14. Just send one- the Obstruction article

And tell them you can’t send the other one yet because the obstruction is preventing the full investigation necessary for additional counts.

How can they disagree that obstruction is taking place?

[renate]

23. Your idea sounds like a win-win!

A way to both send it to the Senate and not send it to the Senate!

[gristy]

38. Yes, this is a good idea.

But sending no articles to the Senate is also a good idea. And now that Dean has tweeted it we can be sure that Pelosi and Schiff are aware of the idea and are sure to be considering it.

[JudyM]

70. Seems eminently logical.

[stuffmatters]

83. This idea deserves it's own thread. Nobody needs Trump Barr handling of Mueller Report 2.0

[usaf-vet]

16. For God's sake listen to John Dean. DO NOT SEND articles of impeachment to the Senate.

John Dean
@JohnWDean
Hope @SpeakerPelosi
will not play into Mitch’s hands, and allow the GOP Senate to exonerate Trump for his crimes. This is how to stop it. Impeach, don’t send to the Senate and continue to investigate! Make it a campaign issue. Senate is rigged. Stop the crowning of King Donald!

For God's sake listen to John Dean. DO NOT SEND articles of impeachment to the Senate.

For God's sake listen to John Dean. DO NOT SEND articles of impeachment to the Senate.

For God's sake listen to John Dean. DO NOT SEND articles of impeachment to the Senate.

For God's sake listen to John Dean. DO NOT SEND articles of impeachment to the Senate.

For God's sake listen to John Dean. DO NOT SEND articles of impeachment to the Senate.

For God's sake listen to John Dean. DO NOT SEND articles of impeachment to the Senate.

[2naSalit]

21. ++++++++++++++++++!

[Cartoonist]

33. I don't believe in a god

So to Hell with his sake.
Send it to the Senate with a rainbow on it.

[usaf-vet]

57. Ok just for you. FOR FU*K'S sake listen to John Dean.

Don't send it to the Senate.

Is that better?

[Cartoonist]

58. No

Fuck John Dean. I stand with Nancy.

[usaf-vet]

68. All I can say now is...

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

One of us will be saying "I told you so!"

As long as the orange turd is gone I'm fine.

If 45 is summarily acquited because MoscowMitch rigs the Senate vote.
ARE YOU fine with those results.

Remember MoscowMitch has STOLEN a SCOTUS seat from President Obama.
And refuses to put forward any legislation passed in the house.

Rigging the vote to acquit 45 will be a walk in the park.

Fingers crossed.

Have I seen any of your artwork here on DU? Carry-on!

[Cartoonist]

72. Rarely

I've posted some cartoons in the past. I'm not very active anymore. I can't stand working with his image.

[HissyFit]

86. Exactly the right strategy!!

Make the dotard squirm and stew...and whine...and tweet. Obviously, Tippy McTurtle and the gop senate have no intention of honoring their oaths of office. Don't send the Articles to the Senate until the People can be assured that they will actually conduct a trial...

Retired USAF, eh? My middle Son is currently active duty USAF...SSGT...

[Grasswire2]

17. WaPo Jennifer Rubin says predicate the referral to the Senate on Pompeo, McGahn, Mulvaney testimony

I think that's an even better idea.

Hold up the transfer to the Senate until at least those subpoenas have been honored.



Can you imagine the explosion from 15 flushes?

[2naSalit]

22. Best game plan for the moment...nt

[Mersky]

28. Neat idea. Is this possible?

Am not a constitutional lawyer, so there’s that, but I like the idea. Whether it’s their testimony or some other blocked witnesses/materials.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

49. possible, but ...

The House has the sole power of impeachment -- they can do what they want with it.
The Senate has the sole power of trying impeachments -- they can call or not call any witnesses as they see fit.

[Pachamama]

51. +100000

I agree completely

[Grasswire2]

20. Evidence that is still being gathered is moving public opinion.

And so that is the great benefit of this plan.

[elleng]

25. Yes

[empedocles]

62. The key

[wallyworld2]

24. Moscow Mitch

And the entire republican senate has made it clear that they have no intention of treating the impeachment with the import it deserves

Moscow Mitch is in direct talks with the White House on how to adjudicate any impeachment charges sent to the Senate

Lindsey Graham is openly maligning the entire process

Withholding Impeachment charges is a reasonable response

[elleng]

26. Yes

[bdamomma]

71. Moscow Mitch

has already said he is in alliance with the WH, and will not support impeachment so why not extend these articles against this worthless POs. Again, this treasonous party of tRump will not support the Constitution.

Ms. Pelosi is very aware of Moscow Mitch's deceit. All those bills sitting on Mitch's desk will tell everyone Mitch does not give a shit about Americans. They will push for another tax cut for the rich.

[wallyworld2]

89. You are correct on all counts

[OhNo-Really]

27. Let the GOP wear this. Let Lindsey openly use Giuliani fairytales on Natl TV.

Waiting for the shoe to fall is important until and unless the GOP Senate regains a true adherence to their solemn Oaths

[elleng]

34. YES!!!

[democrank]

29. I'm with John Dean on this.

Strip McConnell of his power. Make it a campaign issue. Hire a few pit bulls for messaging.

[elleng]

35. YES, we need GREAT messaging.

[democrank]

30. I'm curious if any Democratic leaders are considering this.

Anyone know?

[onenote]

61. They absolutely are not considering it.

Schumer already has written to McConnell suggesting a trial schedule for early January. Before doing so Schumer almost certainly consulted with Pelosi.

The idea of adopting articles and then not sending them to the Senate is both a bad idea and one that would be all but impossible to pull off (primarily because it is such a bad idea).

It is a bad idea because the Democrats chose to move expeditiously to adopt articles instead of continuing a lengthy and open ended impeachment investigation in the Judiciary Committee. Whether or not that was a good idea can be debated, but it was clear that the Democratic leadership felt that an open-ended process would be a mistake.

But once the decision was made to act expeditiously to adopt articles, the option of then sitting on the articles went out the window. The Republicans (and the media) would have a field day with what would be an unprecedented action. The message would be that the impeachment was just sham, that the Democrats are afraid of giving the President his "day in court," blah blah blah. And that message would drown out the Democrats message that the Republicans in the Senate are the ones about to hold a sham trial. Sooner or later there would need to be a trial and at this point there is every reason to believe the Republicans in the Senate are going to continue to stand by Trump no matter what.

Finally, as a matter of House procedure, Pelosi cannot just sit on the articles. Any Republican can offer a resolution directing the House to name managers and send the articles to the Senate. That resolution would be considered "privileged" under the House rules and would have to be put to a vote. While that vote might simply be a motion to "table" the resolution, even that vote would be, correctly, understood as a vote to stonewall the Senate trial. And Democrats in the House who just voted to adopt articles of resolution because, as Pelosi indicated, it was a a constitutional imperative to do so, aren't going to want to spend days and weeks (including the holidays) explaining why they were in a rush to impeach but are refusing to allow a Senate trial.

Pelosi has proven that she knows how to count votes. The fact that every indication is that the House will follow the regular order and send the articles to the Senate promptly after they are adopted is pretty strong evidence that there isn't support for holding them among the Democratic caucus.

[JoeOtterbein]

32. Because the Trump/GOP can be trusted to stop being...

...King(s) for a second!

[wnylib]

37. Using the impeachment articles as bargaining. chips

for a fair trial is tricky. The R spin will be that Dems are afraid of defeat because they know the articles are baseless. They might even say, "Great. No trial then. Game over."

Waiting for the election could bsckfire. We know there will be interference in the 2020 election so letting the people choose is iffy.

Holding up delivery and continuing to investigate will not just tick off the R,s. The general publuc is weary of it after Mueller and the recent House hearings.

Pelosi could announce that she wants to wait on delivery until the Senate has set its rules and McConnel recuses himself because of publicly announced bias. But she would be accused of trying to extend House authority over the Senate.

I don't think witholding the articles would work. As already pointed out earlier in this thread, Pelosi and Schumer have already agreed to move ahead with release and trial.

[Duppers]

42. Same applies to Lindsey Graham.

The fix is in.

The subpoenas must be honored and these two must recuse themselves.

[democratisphere]

39. Agree completely!

[Duppers]

40. Absolutely! The Dems better play this smart.

The Rethugians play the dirtiest game ever seen, so we cannot bring a butter knife to this gun fight.

The fix is in. Moscow Mitch & Lindsey say they do not need to hear testimony. What more proof does our Speaker need that the cause is hopeless in the Senate & that Trump will use the verdict campaigning & the dunderheads will believe him.

[Historic NY]

41. Plus play Mitch as the roadblock to any leglislation

Last edited Mon Dec 16, 2019, 08:58 PM - Edit history (1)

coming out of the house 400 bills not even brought up for a vote. One man elected in one state is stopping the US Government.

[SCVDem]

45. We need to see his taxes

before we send anything up to the Senate!

[UniteFightBack]

46. Since the Russiapublican Senate refuses to fair jurors then lets take it to the American people. nt

[yaesu]

47. Wise advice, the Senate is rigged, prolong it, make them sweat, gather more articles. nt

[greytdemocrat]

48. No offense to Dean

But that's a stupid idea.

If you want to hand Trump the
win, go right ahead.

[onenote]

60. agreed

[ElementaryPenguin]

84. Strongly disagree, greyt - and agree with Dean and Lawrence Tribe.

Why reward Trump and the Senate Republicans who are promising a sham trial guaranteed to acquit - with the opportunity to receive exoneration by corrupt means?

Let's just keep investigating, and holding the impeachment over his head - all the while publicizing the remarks of McConnell and Graham, which will violate the oaths they have to take.

If we get ahold of his tax returns and financials with Deutche Bank - there is bound to be tons of evidence criminal wrong doing by this shameless gangster of a president!

[Hortensis]

54. No doubt all options have been/are being thoroughly considered. nt

[empedocles]

63. And, the Speaker, has benn, and is, a much better deciision maker than traitortrump

[Hortensis]

66. Like comparing Einstein with a squash. :)

[RandySF]

56. This is what annoys me to some degree.

Everybody has advice for Congressional Dems and, if not followed, a tweet or quote in the NYT about how they "blew it".

[empedocles]

64. Quite annoying, agreed

[duforsure]

59. Great idea!

They should do this to keep the news cycle instead of trump controlling it until the election. It'll have the bad news being exposed almost daily for them to use. They should also add to it as it builds up larger.

[superpatriotman]

67. Make him the Most Impeached of all time

Don’t send anything to the Senate. It is a waste of time.

Pass a shit ton of new bills. Impeach and censure till his head twists off. Blame it all on Moscow Mitch.

This is a solid plan.

[YOHABLO]

69. Don't blow it Democrats!

I hope the dem leadership will listen and do what they're suggesting

[AtheistCrusader]

73. It IS an option. But it assumes we win the Senate in 2020, which is not a given.

But certainly it would be nice to stick it to them like they did to us over Obama's last eligible SC nomination.

If we DO wait to send it to the Senate, we should also censure Senate members in the meantime that have abdicated their impartial jury standing to direct white house control.

[bluestarone]

74. It's her call! I say send it THEN

Send MORE and MORE and MORE!! We could keep the senate busy ALL FUCKING YEAR!!

[ancianita]

77. John Dean is right, Nancy! Don't play into Moscow Mitch's hands! Keep investigating!

Don't allow the Rudy Dossier to hit the Senate!

Don't allow a kangaroo court!

Save the senators from breaking their oaths!

Make the Senate face The People next November!

Use The People's House as a weapon against the Fifth Column!

[bucolic_frolic]

78. What you say is the shrewd reasoned approach

Democrats are searching for assurance that Senate jurors will judge impartially, but to ask the question is to answer it. All they will get is lies and more lies. So holding impeachment in abeyance is the only rational outcome. And if you really want to cook the GOP, just drag this on for 11 more months. Let the Trumpers dangle by their fingernails. A few will come to reason, they have no momentum at this point, and they aren't likely to gain any because their false idol is the one under the microscope and all they have to defend him is a sham trial and Rudy's lies.

Whitewash won't work here. It's not believable, it's not valid, it's not credible. And Trump cannot be allowed to keep importing lies to foster his beliefs! Birtherism! Ukraine dirt on Democrats! Phooey!

[ancianita]

80. Absolutely.

[VOX]

79. Crudely put, this smart tactic wouldn't allow them to flush the tons crap they've dumped on America.

and then having their echo chamber LIE by blaming the entire mess ALL on Democrats.

Excellent idea. Don't give Moscow Mitch anything to work with.

[Amimnoch]

81. I say go through with it, and make him the first president ever to be

Impeached multiple times.. Every time the Senate fails to hold a full and thorough hearing, open up another impeachment all the way to election day if needed. This isn’t a court room, there is no prohibition of double jeopardy. Impeach, impeach, and impeach again.

[wwwmovetoamend]

82. Impeachment train is coming

I am putting my money on Nancy, soon the orange tweetler will go down in disgrace. No matter what, starting this Wednesday tRump will forever have Impeached stamped on his forehead .

[Paka]

87. I'm with John Dean on this!

It's the McTurtle rule. If you can't fill a Supreme Court seat in an election year, how can you possibly have a rigged impeachment trial. Tit 4 Tat!

[kyburbonkid]

88. We should wait... you can't have impeachment during an election year

LOL... and according to Moscow Mitch, the senate can't provide advice and consent to judges either ...

Make Moscow Mitch want it!

[DonaldsRump]

90. A few choices

One thing is to send these articles to the Senate after the vote and then to send further impeachment articles as the investigations continue.

Another is to send one article (abuse of power) and hold off on the obstruction of Congress article, giving Trump one month to provide any exonerating evidence. Trump, of course, won't, but the Ds can score some points with the public as it amplifies that he is clearly hiding things when he provides no documents or witnesses.

No matter what, Wednesday or Thursday, depending on what day the articles(s) will be voted upon in the House, is a continuing step to taking our country back!

[bdamomma]

91. Just a question

Senator Schumer keeps on saying "what are they hiding?" seems like some of us DU'ers know this filthy regime is all for Russia taking down democracies with the party of tRump all in for it.