This message was self-deleted by its author

[OhNo-Really]

This message was self-deleted by its author (OhNo-Really) on Sat Dec 10, 2022, 09:10 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[NCjack]

1. Oversight has been dead for 3 years. That is not the end of constitutional government.

We have to make it the end of the Repuke Party. Continue to dig and expose them. Fight to win in 2020.

[OhNo-Really]

3. If Senate exonerates, What will compel future oversight compliance by The Executive Branch?

Why are the courts dragging their feet?

If when Dems have veto proof majority can they pass subpoena laws with some teeth to compel Executive documents & Hearings participation?

[Miguelito Loveless]

2. I fear you are correct

and it has been depressing me no end.

The U.S. and U.K. have turned to fascism, openly, willingly, and proudly. Yes, there are those of us who have fought, and refused to cooperate, but we are met with a wall of indifference from a plurality who cannot be bothered to educate themselves enough to discern truth from lies, or cannot be bothered to participate in the process.

Too busy binge-watching the latest TV show to worry about civic duty.

[coti]

4. I think you're selling short the 50%+ of people who want Trump thrown out of office.

Do you realize how unusual and bold of a position that is, and the significance of a majority of any populace holding that position? For half or more of a population to overcome inertia enough to actually want to get rid of the President before his term is even up?

[OhNo-Really]

6. Yes; however, the Senate doesn't care

The precedent set by the Senate by exonerating this Executive anomaly of Constitutional disregard & government destruction can harm this Republic.

It is why I agree with Dean.

Don’t send the Articles of Impeachment to the Senate unless or until it is clear the AoI will receive an impartial trial that includes all requested documents & Executive Branch/all requested witnesses.

This case will set many precedents that can either strengthen or weaken the will of the people but more importantly The US Constitution, without which we are unprotected from tyranny or worse.

[coti]

8. I agree we shouldn't send articles to a corrupted Senate, as long as we still pass the articles

But I do disagree that we're already at "fascism"- certainly, there are people in this country who want it, and there is corruption that, left unchecked, would easily qualify as fascism. But even with the Senate punting, our democratic processes are still at play here, and the media continues to report Trump's corruptions and the truth. That means there's still hope, and much of it.

[OhNo-Really]

10. No mention of fascism. Tyranny yes

Some leading Senators have stated publicly they do not intend on having an impartial impeachment trial.

The House was obligated to impeach, but not obligated to pass to the Senate.

[OhNo-Really]

5. Lack of civic participation is a huge problem

If everyone voted I wonder how the tally would be affected? The too busys & bingers are also probably uninformed.

Do we have the government we deserve? Or is our power sufficiently diminished by monied interests?

[Esperanto.Mark]

12. Agreed.

Perhaps we can make important civil proceedings more interesting to that segment of the population...

Like highly dramatized recreations of court hearings involving popular celebrities?

[OhNo-Really]

14. Civic Debate Contests w/$$ prizes & horrendous penalties

Ppl seem to enjoy watching ppl under huge pressure compete for $$ prizes.

[unblock]

7. impeachment oversight has never really existed when the the same party controls congress

in all cases where a presidential impeachment process had at least begun -- andrew johnson, richard nixon, and bill clinton -- both houses of congress were controlled by the party in opposition to the president.

that's not to say that merely having that power couldn't have ever been useful for the in-party congressional leaders to negotiate against the president in private in some cases, but in practice, any use of that power doesn't show.


a senate impeachment trial of donnie would be the first time ever a house of congress of the same party as the president has acted in an impeachment matter.



unfortunately, impeachment was not a very effective weapon against a host of abuses by a president. it really was designed to deter individual acts of tyranny and corruption that offend many, many people, including some of his previous supporters. hence the 2/3rds requirement.

it was *not* designed to do anything about a president acting in full support of a large bloc in the senate.

[OhNo-Really]

13. Impeachment is a Constitutional Protection

of the Rule of Law & shared powers of 3 branches of government regardless of party fealty.

If The Executive abuses power and the House and/or Senate refuse their constitutional responsibilities to fulfill impeachment duties, then they share in the abuse.

Because this set up is a first, it must conclude properly or not be pursued at all for the sake of historical precedents.

The House is not obligated to pass the Articles of Impeachment to the Senate.

Why send a lamb to a starved pack of vultures?

The House can keep it’s doors open for more evidence and/or Executive abuses.

The GOP House & Senate has doggedly invited The House to produce better evidence, right? Therefore, The House can!

[Roland99]

9. This feels apropos...

Governor Tarkin:
The Imperial Senate will no longer be of any concern to us. I have just received word that the Emperor has dissolved the council permanently. The last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept away.

General Tagge:
But that's impossible. How will the Emperor maintain control without the bureaucracy?

Governor Tarkin:
The regional governors now have direct control over their territories. Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battle station.

[OhNo-Really]

11. And so

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

Yes, your quote is very apropos ☺️

Dividing the spoils is on a lot of bad guy minds.