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RestoreAmerica2020

(3,433 posts)
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 02:37 PM Dec 2019

Damon Young, [theroot]"I will never forgive white people for Donald Trump"


...I’m reminded, again, of exactly who elected him, exactly why he was elected, exactly who still supports him, and exactly who I hold responsible for this happening. And I’m reminded, again, that I’ll never forgive white people for doing this.

I’m aware that this feeling transmutes white Americans into a collective; distilling a demographic of hundreds of millions down to its least desirable parts. While “not all white people” has become the canonical clichéd reply to this sort of charge, it is also not false. Not all white people voted for Trump. Not all white people support Trump. And sometimes it feels wildly unfair to lump all in with the undesirables. But being fair to white people feels, well, irrational today. It feels dumb to offer a benefit of the doubt while knowing that 54 percent of whites either voted for a racist specifically because he’s racist or didn’t believe racism mattered enough to lose a vote. It feels stupid when realizing that this majority isn’t just the frothing seas of MAGA, but also the white people who seem to be otherwise…decent. A morning shift barista at your favorite neighborhood coffee shop. A co-worker you share silly memes and quiche recipes with.



https://verysmartbrothas.theroot.com/i-will-never-forgive-white-people-for-donald-trump-1840533521
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Damon Young, [theroot]"I will never forgive white people for Donald Trump" (Original Post) RestoreAmerica2020 Dec 2019 OP
Most (not all) white people I've met in my 74 years of life as a Black Man Nature Man Dec 2019 #1
Sometimes we have to begin associating with a better class of people! I've met people of all abqtommy Dec 2019 #4
What signifies a "better class of people?" Nature Man Dec 2019 #5
I've met people from all ethinic groups who aren't racists. That's the "better class of people" abqtommy Dec 2019 #9
I dig what you're saying, Nature Man Dec 2019 #10
Well, our realities don't have to be the same. We can still dislike racists and racism. abqtommy Dec 2019 #17
And what constitutes "associating"? StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #37
I think we all have choices to make. For me it's important not to limit my associations but to abqtommy Dec 2019 #79
Black people don't have the right to choose the race... Marengo Dec 2019 #87
I'm sure black people wish they had a choice MaryMagdaline Dec 2019 #78
As a 47 year old white man, I agree with you Johnny2X2X Dec 2019 #8
perhaps the next election will be a better measure Skittles Dec 2019 #45
Hey Johnny, I appreciate your truth-telling. It means a lot. Anon-C Dec 2019 #81
We live in a white supremacy. We're all soaking in it and if we don't unlearn it, we reinforce it. WhiskeyGrinder Dec 2019 #13
Oh boy, statements like that will earn you quite the fan club around here. Marengo Dec 2019 #18
Never once signed up to win a popularity contest . . . Nature Man Dec 2019 #24
Good on you. tazkcmo Dec 2019 #41
AMEN Nature Man Dec 2019 #53
Yes, well, Damon Young just outed himself. Hortensis Dec 2019 #36
And 54% seems low since we know 65% of white males and 53%... brush Dec 2019 #51
As a 62 SWM, I would agree with that. MicaelS Dec 2019 #106
well, that's helpful. How about we just focus on ending this travesty for EVERYONE's sake...? hlthe2b Dec 2019 #2
Neither will I and I'm white. onecaliberal Dec 2019 #3
Me too. dewsgirl Dec 2019 #7
Exactly what I said down thread wryter2000 Dec 2019 #59
Me, too. Started cutting white people out of my life. MaryMagdaline Dec 2019 #80
I haven't had to do that wryter2000 Dec 2019 #89
Same with me - Pittsburgh is very blue; most of Allegheny County is blue FakeNoose Dec 2019 #108
You're so right wryter2000 Dec 2019 #109
I remember the moment that it became clear that Trump was going to become president. Blue_true Dec 2019 #70
I knew it would be horrendous and it's been exponentially worse. onecaliberal Dec 2019 #71
I'm like you StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #82
I guess I was naive to think there were patriots on the right that would step in onecaliberal Dec 2019 #83
That's where I misjudged this StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #84
Easy solution. Drown then out at the voting booth with non-white voters ala 2008 & 2012 ffr Dec 2019 #6
+1000 hlthe2b Dec 2019 #11
I'll cop to unearned privilege, I'll cop to ignorance of the black experience, but no. I had Squinch Dec 2019 #12
Yup TheRealNorth Dec 2019 #15
Yes, this Baked Potato Dec 2019 #30
And Russia is still doing it Cetacea Dec 2019 #58
This is from The Root JonLP24 Dec 2019 #62
Part of their success on social media TheRealNorth Dec 2019 #86
Yes, this Brawndo Dec 2019 #90
Exactly. DavidDvorkin Dec 2019 #21
Nice distraction of a post FrankBooth Dec 2019 #14
Distraction or inconvenient truth? Nature Man Dec 2019 #23
Distraction. FrankBooth Dec 2019 #34
Sometimes inconvenient truths are seen as distractions by people not comfortable with them StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #39
But more often FrankBooth Dec 2019 #47
People often have opinions and feelings that wouldn't make it into the Democratic platform. StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #49
Maybe you should think through what a statement like that actually means for the party FrankBooth Dec 2019 #54
I sincerely doubt a comment made by someone on DU is going to have much impact on the election StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #60
As is yours FrankBooth Dec 2019 #65
But you didn't say you had a contrary opinion. You told him he shouldn't express his opinion at all StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #68
Will this affect your voting in the upcoming election? Caliman73 Dec 2019 #63
Why did Putin and his troll army push these messages in 2016? FrankBooth Dec 2019 #66
The thing is don't give Russia any material JonLP24 Dec 2019 #67
Maybe he thought White people were defensive and would be offended? Caliman73 Dec 2019 #85
Yes, It is whathehell Dec 2019 #35
Yeah. This is the form of the racial discussion Putin wants us to have. nt coti Dec 2019 #52
I don't see how this is helpful DrToast Dec 2019 #16
It's not helpful whathehell Dec 2019 #31
Not all Trump supporters are racists, but... TruckFump Dec 2019 #19
Nope. All trump supporters ARE racists. Voting for trump was a racist act. They knew what Squinch Dec 2019 #25
What about the 8 Million who voted for Obama and then for Trump? whathehell Dec 2019 #91
Kay. Did you think they didn't know Trump was a racist when they voted for him? Squinch Dec 2019 #92
Maybe you could try to answer my question first.. whathehell Dec 2019 #95
But I did answer the question. Whether they voted for Obama or not, they subsequently went on Squinch Dec 2019 #97
No, I'm sorry, I don't believe those 8 million voters suddenly turned "racist" whathehell Dec 2019 #98
OK. You don't believe people who performed a blatantly racist act are racists. Squinch Dec 2019 #99
Okay, and you believe the 13 % percent of black men & 38% of Hispanics whathehell Dec 2019 #100
Just out of curiosity, do you also believe that the women who voted for trump are not sexist? Squinch Dec 2019 #102
I have no idea.. whathehell Dec 2019 #107
Just because you voted for a black man doesn't mean you're not racist. Drunken Irishman Dec 2019 #101
No, I don't believe racists would vote for the first Black President whathehell Dec 2019 #105
Why not? Drunken Irishman Dec 2019 #120
"Why not"? whathehell Dec 2019 #123
I was reading The Forgotten about an Obama-Trump county Lucerne JonLP24 Dec 2019 #111
One excerpt from one book about one county.. whathehell Dec 2019 #114
Unfortunately I read more than one except JonLP24 Dec 2019 #115
Unfortunately, you listed only one excerpt from one book whathehell Dec 2019 #116
I told you I had to put it down because a lot of their reasons were racist reasons JonLP24 Dec 2019 #117
Then find another book or report covering more than whathehell Dec 2019 #118
I bought the book because unlike a lot of reporters JonLP24 Dec 2019 #119
Again, you don't seem to be getting it -- I'm not criticizing the study itself whathehell Dec 2019 #124
A study showed that yes, that was basically about race and immigration muriel_volestrangler Dec 2019 #121
Voting for Obama was "basically about race and immigration"? whathehell Dec 2019 #122
Fine, you don't buy it, but it's what the analysis showed. muriel_volestrangler Dec 2019 #125
It's what ONE analysis showed.. whathehell Dec 2019 #126
Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2019 #20
AMEN Nature Man Dec 2019 #22
What was the content of that post you wholeheartedly endorsed? Marengo Dec 2019 #75
Makes two of us mahina Dec 2019 #26
Not to disparage the point made... Newest Reality Dec 2019 #27
Ahh, the generalizations... Baked Potato Dec 2019 #28
Trump is the pinnacle of whiteness as a power structure ismnotwasm Dec 2019 #29
The hell he is... whathehell Dec 2019 #32
Sure he is ismnotwasm Dec 2019 #33
Nah whathehell Dec 2019 #38
Colonialism? ismnotwasm Dec 2019 #42
Nope. whathehell Dec 2019 #46
he is in many ways the epitome of white power. unblock Dec 2019 #40
I agree. ismnotwasm Dec 2019 #43
Sorry, I don't agree. Virtually all of his power is based whathehell Dec 2019 #44
Tell me with a straight face Nature Man Dec 2019 #48
Or Bob Johnson StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #50
Not a nano second, but neither would Bill Clinton whathehell Dec 2019 #61
Clinton got away with far more than Obama could have gotten away with StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #64
He ticks all the boxes. Rich is certainly one of them unblock Dec 2019 #69
I do not forgive the white people that voted and or support that man. Afromania Dec 2019 #55
I agree with this wholeheartedly- the people who voted for him. In fact, I say it to myself coti Dec 2019 #57
I'm not going to forgive them, either wryter2000 Dec 2019 #56
There's a massive voter purge going on in Wisconsin... SMC22307 Dec 2019 #72
Posting on DU isn't any more activism than Twitter & social media since those are more popular JonLP24 Dec 2019 #73
The sooner white people are a minority in this country the better it will be for all people jcmaine72 Dec 2019 #74
... SMC22307 Dec 2019 #112
Your forgiveness is not required, Mr Young. Nor is it sought. Bok_Tukalo Dec 2019 #76
excuuuuuse me??? Im white and i would NEVER vote for trump or any repug ever..... samnsara Dec 2019 #77
At least two of my black neighbors support the shitstain. cwydro Dec 2019 #88
13 % percent of Black men voted for Trump, us many in whathehell Dec 2019 #93
I know, and that bothers me. cwydro Dec 2019 #94
Who knows? whathehell Dec 2019 #96
I agree with you. cwydro Dec 2019 #104
Gotta love the rubles XRubicon Dec 2019 #103
The problem was white evangelicals. White non-evangelicals favoured Clinton (just) muriel_volestrangler Dec 2019 #110
That's why there was a whiff of panic in Fat Nixon's tweet... SMC22307 Dec 2019 #113
I find this type article divisive and useless. YOHABLO Dec 2019 #127
I hear you. Joinfortmill Dec 2019 #128

abqtommy

(14,118 posts)
4. Sometimes we have to begin associating with a better class of people! I've met people of all
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 02:42 PM
Dec 2019

ethnic groups that have been racist. Lotta that stuff going around!

Nature Man

(869 posts)
5. What signifies a "better class of people?"
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 02:44 PM
Dec 2019

White racists range from knuckle dragging trailer trash to HR staff to judges sitting on the bench.

It's even encoded into the system too.

abqtommy

(14,118 posts)
9. I've met people from all ethinic groups who aren't racists. That's the "better class of people"
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 02:57 PM
Dec 2019

I'm referring to. Of course we have to meet them first and that can take some time. I agree that "racism" (which as a word makes no sense since there's only one "race", the human race) but we can
fight ethnic/cultural prejudices by not being bigots ourselves and that's a win. That's what I think.

Nature Man

(869 posts)
10. I dig what you're saying,
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 03:00 PM
Dec 2019

and it smells suspiciously like a copout/victim-blaming, but what you are saying isn't how the real world works.

Keep in mind that only racists get uncomfortable when discussions of racism come up. They will always tell on themselves.

 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
37. And what constitutes "associating"?
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 06:05 PM
Dec 2019

White privilege includes the right to choose the race of the people one "associates" with and to limit one's interactions to primarily other white people. Most black people don't have the option to limit the scope of their associations to other black people.

abqtommy

(14,118 posts)
79. I think we all have choices to make. For me it's important not to limit my associations but to
Fri Dec 20, 2019, 09:50 AM
Dec 2019

make the best of the associations I encounter when I'm out in society or even here at DU.

 

Marengo

(3,477 posts)
87. Black people don't have the right to choose the race...
Fri Dec 20, 2019, 01:41 PM
Dec 2019

Of people they associate with? Where is this codified? And, where is it codified that white people have the right to make such a demand?

MaryMagdaline

(6,849 posts)
78. I'm sure black people wish they had a choice
Fri Dec 20, 2019, 09:46 AM
Dec 2019

It’s not as if they can cut white peoples out of their lives. We’re the majority. They can, as the poster is doing, try to raise awareness.

Johnny2X2X

(18,743 posts)
8. As a 47 year old white man, I agree with you
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 02:56 PM
Dec 2019

IF 54% of whites still support the White Supremacist in Chief, that means the majority of whites are in fact racist.

I work for a fortune 25 sized company, you wouldn't believe what you hear from people in conference rooms when no minorities are around, it's disgusting and I've spent too many hours in HR's office trying to hold people accountable.

From the relatively innocuous of, "we should get so and so on our team for after work basketball", to the blatantly racist, "He's one of the good ones." I've heard a lot, the thing with me is I do not care who the hell is around, I'm not going to brush it off, I'm going to say something and then I'll take it to HR if I have to.

And the higher you climb the corporate ladder, the worse it gets. And it's gotten worse, not better.

Skittles

(152,964 posts)
45. perhaps the next election will be a better measure
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 06:35 PM
Dec 2019

because you know that, regardless of why anyone vote for Trump, if they still support him NOW there is no escaping the fact they are RACIST

 

Marengo

(3,477 posts)
18. Oh boy, statements like that will earn you quite the fan club around here.
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 03:47 PM
Dec 2019

I’m not being facetious if that needs to be said.

tazkcmo

(7,286 posts)
41. Good on you.
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 06:19 PM
Dec 2019

Me either. Nobody is required to agree with or like my viewpoints and I'm not required to care if they do.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
36. Yes, well, Damon Young just outed himself.
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 06:00 PM
Dec 2019


It'd be easier to forgive those black men who refused to vote against Trump, or in Georgia who refused to vote against Brian Kemp and for our first female governor, or who slapped me with their bigotry, than it would be to forget they exist.

I withhold belief either way when the individual Damons and their white counterparts, brothers and sisters under the skin, now insist they're not to blame for Trump, but I know what to think when they insist I am.

brush

(53,467 posts)
51. And 54% seems low since we know 65% of white males and 53%...
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 07:57 PM
Dec 2019

of white women voted for trump.

But thank God for 35% of whites who represent here.

MicaelS

(8,747 posts)
106. As a 62 SWM, I would agree with that.
Sat Dec 21, 2019, 05:16 PM
Dec 2019

I have been homeless for the last few years. I am finally getting back into my own place. You would not believe the amount of bigotry displayed by white men who are homeless, and they associate with black men every day, because they are also homeless. What is more, many, if not most of them that are homeless, support Trump. Think he is the greatest President ever. I kid you not.

hlthe2b

(101,714 posts)
2. well, that's helpful. How about we just focus on ending this travesty for EVERYONE's sake...?
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 02:39 PM
Dec 2019

Last edited Thu Dec 19, 2019, 03:13 PM - Edit history (1)

There is power in working together.

wryter2000

(46,016 posts)
59. Exactly what I said down thread
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 08:08 PM
Dec 2019

I woke up the morning after the 2016 election and thought, "I hate white people."

It probably makes more sense to say I hate white racism, stupidity, or insensitivity. But that morning I hated white people.

MaryMagdaline

(6,849 posts)
80. Me, too. Started cutting white people out of my life.
Fri Dec 20, 2019, 09:57 AM
Dec 2019

And I’m white. Thank God I live in a diverse county. I could talk to black people. I realized though that I was burdening them with my s—- it’s not up to black people to treat psychic wounds of white people.

wryter2000

(46,016 posts)
89. I haven't had to do that
Fri Dec 20, 2019, 02:04 PM
Dec 2019

I live in a very liberal area. The only Republicans I know are disgusted by Trump. Ironically, the only person I know who voted for him is AA. She did it because she hates the Clintons. I haven't spoken to her about it.

You're so right about not burdening AA people with our sadness, but I do say or do something if I hear or see racism.

FakeNoose

(32,338 posts)
108. Same with me - Pittsburgh is very blue; most of Allegheny County is blue
Sat Dec 21, 2019, 05:24 PM
Dec 2019

I do know a few senior citizens who voted for Chump, and most of them really hate him now. We need to keep in mind that the largest problem in the USA is all the people who DIDN'T BOTHER to vote at all. Those of us who did vote in 2016 were split almost evenly 50/50. Those who didn't vote could have swung the election to Hillary if only they'd made an effort - including the Bernie-Bros who stayed home and pouted. It makes me sick to think about it.



I keep posting this cartoon because it needs to be pounded home.

wryter2000

(46,016 posts)
109. You're so right
Sat Dec 21, 2019, 05:26 PM
Dec 2019

Oakland here. Barbara Lee country.

With all the voter suppression, we need to get everyone out.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
70. I remember the moment that it became clear that Trump was going to become president.
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 09:46 PM
Dec 2019

My whole body went numb, and my view of my country people changed forever.

 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
82. I'm like you
Fri Dec 20, 2019, 11:09 AM
Dec 2019

I knew it would be horrible and knew it would be even more horrid than people expected, but it's even worse than I imagined.

onecaliberal

(32,478 posts)
83. I guess I was naive to think there were patriots on the right that would step in
Fri Dec 20, 2019, 11:43 AM
Dec 2019

If he tried to weaponized the DOJ. Who knew Jeff fucking Sessions would be one of those who refused to carry out crimes for trump. There are currently no such people anywhere in trumps atmosphere. I’m truly worried.

 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
84. That's where I misjudged this
Fri Dec 20, 2019, 11:54 AM
Dec 2019

I assumed the Republicans would cravenly and wholeheartedly support him until they got one or two Supreme Court appointments, the tax cuts and a few other things they wanted and then they would start to box him in. I was wrong to think they had that kind of backbone and forethought and to not assume Frankenstein's monster would take full control of his creator.

ffr

(22,644 posts)
6. Easy solution. Drown then out at the voting booth with non-white voters ala 2008 & 2012
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 02:47 PM
Dec 2019

Get them registered and get them active so we can stop blaming others...

WHY? Because, WHEN DEMOCRATS VOTE, WE WIN. There are move of us than them.

Squinch

(50,773 posts)
12. I'll cop to unearned privilege, I'll cop to ignorance of the black experience, but no. I had
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 03:08 PM
Dec 2019

nothing to do with electing Donald Trump. So no. Uh uh. Sorry, not accepting even an iota of responsibility for that one.

And PS: great way to divide Democrats.

TheRealNorth

(9,435 posts)
15. Yup
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 03:18 PM
Dec 2019

This is the same type of shit the Russian trolls would throw on Facebook.

To collectively judge white people for Donald Trump is the same racist thinking that leads white bigots to judge all minorities as criminals because of their higher incarceration rates.

Just stop, because I immediately suspect Russian troll when you try to insult between 30-40% of the Democratic electorate (And an even higher percentage of the electorate in the midwestern swing states that Dems need to win).

TheRealNorth

(9,435 posts)
86. Part of their success on social media
Fri Dec 20, 2019, 01:19 PM
Dec 2019

Was amplifying the fringe on social media. In 2016, I was seeing posts of fringe members of BLM being amplified as the political stance of Hillary Clinton and all Democrats.

To be fair, those fringe posts could have been Russian trolls.

Brawndo

(535 posts)
90. Yes, this
Fri Dec 20, 2019, 03:06 PM
Dec 2019

I will never forgive anyone who voted for tRump and I don't give a damn what shade they come in.

FrankBooth

(1,598 posts)
14. Nice distraction of a post
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 03:13 PM
Dec 2019

In my opinion, Mr. Young's opinion about ALL white people is the kind of thing that will help Donald Trump win re-election in 2020. Who will Mr. Young blame then? Still ALL white people, I'm sure. Very smart indeed.

FrankBooth

(1,598 posts)
47. But more often
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 07:38 PM
Dec 2019

Intentionally divisive rhetoric is used online to divide Democrats. Please show me where in the Democratic Party platform the "I cannot forgive all white people" would be condoned. I'll wait.

 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
49. People often have opinions and feelings that wouldn't make it into the Democratic platform.
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 07:51 PM
Dec 2019

I know I do. You probably do, too. And people express such opinions on this board all the time.

Maybe instead of criticizing and judging his feelings and lecturing him about it what he should and shouldn't say about them, you could pay attention to what he's saying and try to understand where he's coming from. His point of view is not unusual and it's not unwarranted.

FrankBooth

(1,598 posts)
54. Maybe you should think through what a statement like that actually means for the party
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 08:01 PM
Dec 2019

I mean, this is a message board about the Democratic party, and my original post was framed within that context. This type of divisiveness will not help defeat Donald Trump in 2020. I stand by my post 100%.

 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
60. I sincerely doubt a comment made by someone on DU is going to have much impact on the election
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 08:11 PM
Dec 2019

But your concern is noted.

And by the way, "divisiveness" is a two-way street. Telling an African-American he shouldn't state his opinion because it's "divisive" is really saying that opinions and feelings of white people are the norm and black people should either agree or be quiet about it or else WE are the problem. It could just as easily be argued that the divisiveness is not coming from the black person expressing an opinion but from white people telling him to be quiet and dismissing that opinion as not worth considering.

FrankBooth

(1,598 posts)
65. As is yours
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 08:22 PM
Dec 2019

LOL. Ok. I guess that means that African-Americans have the right to say anything they want without anybody being able to hold a contrary opinion about their statement. And I definitely hold a contrary view of his statement, because it's illogical and divisive, and more importantly for the purposes of this message board, very bad for the Democratic party. But, I'm done now -- have a happy holidays!

 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
68. But you didn't say you had a contrary opinion. You told him he shouldn't express his opinion at all
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 08:25 PM
Dec 2019

because it's "divisive."



Caliman73

(11,691 posts)
63. Will this affect your voting in the upcoming election?
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 08:15 PM
Dec 2019

If not then how is it divisive?

You are suggesting that White people will actually vote for Donald Trump because a Black man said that White people are to blame for him in the first place?

That doesn't sound logical at all.

Also, White people are reacting to this statement and I find it interesting because that is how women and minorities have been treated throughout American history. White people have the luxury of representing only themselves while women and minorities represent their cohorts.

That is something to think about. Even if you as an individual don't do that or think that way, it is still pervasive and what women and people of color have to deal with daily.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
67. The thing is don't give Russia any material
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 08:25 PM
Dec 2019

Racism is real and Russia will try to use that for active measures.

Caliman73

(11,691 posts)
85. Maybe he thought White people were defensive and would be offended?
Fri Dec 20, 2019, 12:47 PM
Dec 2019

...possibly to the point they would pout and stay home?

Race and racism is a sensitive topic and one in which the White majority that holds most of the economic and social power has not dealt with on any deep level. Those unresolved issues can be used to drive wedges between coalitions of people who have certain common aims but deep seated differences. When you grow up being told that you are "other" that you and people like you are inferior and have less power just because of the color of your skin, your gender, or your surname, you start to understand that the system, which is made up of the choices of those with more power, is unfair. You want to demand justice but you are told to wait, and wait, and wait until the time is right, but it is rarely ever right. Some people become upset and disenchanted with the way things are.

Exploiting differences is effective if the group in power wants to plug their ears and ignore the valid criticism. We all know that Trump is a racist, sexist, xenophobe and maybe voting against that maybe is enough to vote against, the problem is that people want something to vote for as well.

It is difficult to accept blanket statements about a group of diverse people. Like I said in my response, this is something that women and people of color have had to deal with all of our lives. If it feels divisive to you right now, how do you think it feels to people who have been dealing with it all of their lives?

Okay. I answered your question. Are you going to answer the questions I asked? If not then it isn't worth continuing this discussion.


whathehell

(28,968 posts)
31. It's not helpful
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 05:38 PM
Dec 2019

unless all you want is to vent your anger and feel smug about "being right". That's fine, but, as Barack Obama said "That's not activism"

Squinch

(50,773 posts)
25. Nope. All trump supporters ARE racists. Voting for trump was a racist act. They knew what
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 05:16 PM
Dec 2019

he was and they were fine with that. It was a sexist act too.

whathehell

(28,968 posts)
91. What about the 8 Million who voted for Obama and then for Trump?
Sat Dec 21, 2019, 04:08 PM
Dec 2019

I've yet to hear one explanation for that from the "All Trump voters are racists" crowd, and no, I don't believe anything CLOSE to 8 million racists would vote for a Black man for President.

Squinch

(50,773 posts)
92. Kay. Did you think they didn't know Trump was a racist when they voted for him?
Sat Dec 21, 2019, 04:17 PM
Dec 2019

Somehow all that racism Trump spewed on a daily basis escaped their notice?

And, given that they MUST have known that trump was an avowed racist, what is YOUR preferred term for a person who knowingly votes to make an avowed racist the leader of the free world?

whathehell

(28,968 posts)
95. Maybe you could try to answer my question first..
Sat Dec 21, 2019, 04:22 PM
Dec 2019

Do you really believe that 8 million racists would vote a black man into the highest office in the land?

Squinch

(50,773 posts)
97. But I did answer the question. Whether they voted for Obama or not, they subsequently went on
Sat Dec 21, 2019, 04:30 PM
Dec 2019

to perform the blatantly racist act of making an avowed racist the President. They performed a racist act. Therefore they are, by definition, racist. So yes, I do believe that 8 million people who voted for Obama are racists.

So now you answer MY question: what is YOUR term for people who choose to make an avowed racist the President of your country?

whathehell

(28,968 posts)
98. No, I'm sorry, I don't believe those 8 million voters suddenly turned "racist"
Sat Dec 21, 2019, 04:40 PM
Dec 2019

How would you explain the 13 Percent of Black men and 38 percent of Hispanics performing a "racist act" in voting for "an avowed.racist" ?


Squinch

(50,773 posts)
99. OK. You don't believe people who performed a blatantly racist act are racists.
Sat Dec 21, 2019, 04:46 PM
Dec 2019

Consider me apprised of your opinion.

And why did you put "an avowed racist" in quotes? You don't believe trump is racist?

whathehell

(28,968 posts)
100. Okay, and you believe the 13 % percent of black men & 38% of Hispanics
Sat Dec 21, 2019, 04:55 PM
Dec 2019

who voted for Trump are themselves racist along with the 8 million who voted for Obama just 4 years before -- Consider me apprised of your opinion as well.

*I put "an avowed racist" in quotes as an indication that those were your words.

Squinch

(50,773 posts)
102. Just out of curiosity, do you also believe that the women who voted for trump are not sexist?
Sat Dec 21, 2019, 04:59 PM
Dec 2019

By virtue of their being women?

whathehell

(28,968 posts)
105. No, I don't believe racists would vote for the first Black President
Sat Dec 21, 2019, 05:11 PM
Dec 2019

A few, maybe, but nothing close to 8 million.

 

Drunken Irishman

(34,857 posts)
120. Why not?
Sun Dec 22, 2019, 04:05 AM
Dec 2019

You don't have to be a member of the Klan to be racist. How naive to believe a racist wouldn't vote for a black candidate given specific situations.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
111. I was reading The Forgotten about an Obama-Trump county Lucerne
Sat Dec 21, 2019, 09:45 PM
Dec 2019

I had to put it down because a lot of their reasons for jumping ship to Trump were racist reasons.

This is an except from the book.

I haven't said too much about this election since the start...but this is how I feel...I'm noticing that a lot of you aren't graciously accepting the fact your candidate lost. In fact you seem to be saying hateful things about those of us who voted for Trump. Some of you are apparently "triggered" because you are posting how "sick" you feel about the results.
How did this happen, you ask?

You created "us" when you attacked our freedom of speech.
You created "us" when you attacked our right to bear arms.
You created "us" when you attacked our Christian beliefs.
You created "us" when you constantly referred to us a racists
You created "us" when you constantly called us xenophobic


It keeps going from there.

https://books.google.com/books?id=kZRKDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT19&lpg=PT19&dq=YOU+created+US.+It+is+really+that+simple.&source=bl&ots=dcKResMVGy&sig=OLkQ4eQkTH3rgJkp3Jn6S_2wJ1Q&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwioy__u58XeAhWLwFMKHUa9AhQQ6AEwA3oECAYQAQ#v=onepage&q=YOU%20created%20US.%20It%20is%20really%20that%20simple.&f=false

Way to prove they are not racist & xenophobic by voting for Trump.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
115. Unfortunately I read more than one except
Sat Dec 21, 2019, 10:56 PM
Dec 2019

Like I said they jumped ship and a lot of those was racial reasons among so many other reasons related to their culture wars.

They are more upset about someone kneeling than they are upset about law enforcement or Zimmerman murdering black people.


whathehell

(28,968 posts)
116. Unfortunately, you listed only one excerpt from one book
Sat Dec 21, 2019, 11:17 PM
Dec 2019

about one county in the entire country.

Again, there's no way that's determinative of the motives of 8 million throughout the nation.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
117. I told you I had to put it down because a lot of their reasons were racist reasons
Sat Dec 21, 2019, 11:20 PM
Dec 2019

Among all their other right wing culture war reasons.

I can't copy & paste a whole book.

whathehell

(28,968 posts)
118. Then find another book or report covering more than
Sat Dec 21, 2019, 11:36 PM
Dec 2019

one county, because if you know anything about statistics, you know your "sample" is too small to prove anything but confirmation bias.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
119. I bought the book because unlike a lot of reporters
Sat Dec 21, 2019, 11:45 PM
Dec 2019

Last edited Sun Dec 22, 2019, 12:32 AM - Edit history (3)

He actually talked people in that county. Same way Farenheit 11/9 explains why there was huge turnout gaps in Flint.

-----

After learning that Donald Trump had been elected president, some folks cried. Sought refuge in the Bible. Comforted frightened children. Or steeled themselves for life under a president who has retweeted white supremacists, promised to increase stop-and-frisk policing in poor black neighborhoods, falsely connected Mexican immigrants to crime, and launched his political brand by attacking the legitimacy of the first black president’s birth certificate. Plenty of white Hillary Clinton supporters also felt strong emotions after Trump’s victory. But his track record on race seemed to make his triumph cut deeper and feel more personal to many African-Americans.

One sentiment rang loudest in many African-American hearts and minds: The election shows where we really stand. Now the truth is plain to see, many said – the truth about how an uncomfortable percentage of white people view the concerns and lives of their black fellow citizens.

“Transparency is the order of the day. Now we see what was hidden,” said Melvin Steals, a retired teacher and principal who lives in the western Pennsylvania town of Baden. Fifty-seven percent of his county, a mix of rural areas and hollowed-out towns, voted for Trump.

“It’s like the era after Reconstruction all over again, when they wanted to eradicate all of the gains made by blacks after the Civil War,” Steals said. After the war that ended slavery, an activist federal government helped the South’s newly freed African-Americans gain a toehold in society and elected offices before a racist backlash firmly restored white supremacy.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theundefeated.com/features/african-americans-see-painful-truths-in-trump-victory/amp/

With the combination of Trump's own rhetoric & policies, the fact white people including 52% of white women voted for Trump, the rhetoric from conservatives, so many other things I can conclude a lot of the reasons why someone would vote for racist Trump is because they are racist.

A new study reveals the real reason Obama voters switched to Trump
Hint: It has to do with race.

One of the most puzzling elements of the 2016 election, at least for a lot of Americans, was the millions of voters who switched from voting for Barack Obama in 2012 to Donald Trump in 2016. Somewhere between 6.7 million and 9.2 million Americans switched this way; given that the 2016 election was decided by 40,000 votes, it’s fair to say that Obama-Trump switchers were one of the key reasons that Hillary Clinton lost.

The existence of those voters has served as evidence that the most plausible explanation for what happened in 2016 — that Trump’s campaign tapped into the racism of white Americans to win pivotal states — is wrong. “How could white Americans who voted for a black president in the past be racist,” or so the thinking goes.

“Clinton suffered her biggest losses in the places where Obama was strongest among white voters. It’s not a simple racism story,” the New York Times’s Nate Cohn wrote on the night of the election. This typically segues into an argument that Trump won by tapping into economic, rather than racial, anxiety — anger about trade and the decline of manufacturing, or the fallout from the 2008 Great Recession.

A new study shows that this response isn’t as powerful as it may seem. The study, from three political scientists from around the country, takes a statistical look at a large sample of Obama-Trump switchers. It finds that these voters tended to score highly on measures of racial hostility and xenophobia — and were not especially likely to be suffering economically.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2018/10/16/17980820/trump-obama-2016-race-racism-class-economy-2018-midterm

Who could have possibly guessed racism or xenophobia were why they switched to Trump?

whathehell

(28,968 posts)
124. Again, you don't seem to be getting it -- I'm not criticizing the study itself
Sun Dec 22, 2019, 07:51 PM
Dec 2019

but no SINGLE study of a SINGLE county can represent Eight Million people across a diverse geographic area. End of Story.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,149 posts)
121. A study showed that yes, that was basically about race and immigration
Sun Dec 22, 2019, 06:30 AM
Dec 2019
The results were quite striking. First, attitudes on race and immigration were crucial distinguishing characteristics of both Trump and Clinton switchers. The more racially conservative an Obama or third party voter was, the more likely they were to switch to Trump. Similarly, the more racially liberal a Romney or third-party voter was, the more likely they were to switch to Clinton.

Second, class was largely irrelevant in switching to Trump. Keeping racial attitudes constant, white working-class voters were not more likely to switch to Trump. The white working-class voters who did switch tended to score about as highly on measures of racial conservatism and anti-immigrant attitudes as wealthier switchers.

Third, the correlations between measures of economic stress and vote switching were either weak or non-existent. There’s just little evidence supporting the “economic anxiety” or “economic populism” explanations for the Trump surge.
...
For another, voting for Obama once or even twice doesn’t automatically mean that someone is not prejudiced against black people or immigrants. It’s possible to support Obama in particular while maintaining overall anti-black or anti-immigrant attitudes. In those cases, some other factor, like the Iraq War catastrophe or financial collapse, may have predominated over white voters’ racial hang-ups in the 2008 and 2012 election.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/10/16/17980820/trump-obama-2016-race-racism-class-economy-2018-midterm

whathehell

(28,968 posts)
122. Voting for Obama was "basically about race and immigration"?
Sun Dec 22, 2019, 07:15 PM
Dec 2019

Last edited Sun Dec 22, 2019, 08:19 PM - Edit history (2)

I don't think so, and though the study you use claims it's "possible" to have voted for Obama and still be prejudiced against black people, It doesn't find it "likely" -- Anything is "possible", so no, I don't buy the meme that White Obama/ Trump voters were primarily motivated by race, or even immigration, which, in itself, is not always about race.

In addition, you're study's examination of Obama- Clinton switchers seems flawed in it's failure to examine the issue of Misogyny -- a rather glaring omission, all things considered.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,149 posts)
125. Fine, you don't buy it, but it's what the analysis showed.
Sun Dec 22, 2019, 08:13 PM
Dec 2019

Also, remember that racism isn't just about black people - you can be racist against Hispanics and Arabs too, and Trump's rhetoric is about them a lot.

whathehell

(28,968 posts)
126. It's what ONE analysis showed..
Sun Dec 22, 2019, 08:34 PM
Dec 2019

and, please, unlike yourself, I'm a fourth generation American old enough to recall the original March on Washington, not to mention the assassinations of John and Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King Jr...I need no "lessons" from you on America and her social issues.





Response to RestoreAmerica2020 (Original post)

Newest Reality

(12,712 posts)
27. Not to disparage the point made...
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 05:32 PM
Dec 2019

It has occured to be that this species has a general tendency towards xenophobia and that degrades, (or intensifies) as many forms of prejudice both within various groups and between them, often with negative results.

Perhaps it is the legacy of a tribal sense of fear after experiencing dangerous attacks by other tribes, but it translates as, "You are NOT like US!" as the general impulse and continues, often abated due to identity issues, from there.

The reason I bring this to light is that, often, when groups can agree on a common factor, (like basic xenophobia, acute or mild) and even see it within their own subgroups or "tribes" that can lead to a more agreeable resolution of the issues expressed at a lower, logical level of abstraction.

Baked Potato

(7,733 posts)
28. Ahh, the generalizations...
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 05:35 PM
Dec 2019

Building any number if narratives around Trump is easy. Nothing new here. Beating a dead horse and all.

ismnotwasm

(41,919 posts)
29. Trump is the pinnacle of whiteness as a power structure
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 05:35 PM
Dec 2019

Just as he’s the pinnacle of Republican philosophy.

whathehell

(28,968 posts)
32. The hell he is...
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 05:48 PM
Dec 2019

I might agree with your second statement but Trump is far too stupid and incompetent for the first.He certainly wouldn't be getting impeached in his first term if he were some "Pinnacle of Anything" power structure.

ismnotwasm

(41,919 posts)
33. Sure he is
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 05:52 PM
Dec 2019

Whiteness is basically an inbred power structure. Bound to have genetic like flaws. He’s what you get with imbalances based on one group being seen as superior than others. The stupidity and incompetence have the the support of millions of people. And if that isn’t a sad fact I don’t know what is

whathehell

(28,968 posts)
38. Nah
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 06:05 PM
Dec 2019

Whiteness is a power structure in majority white countries ONLY, and
even in those, leaves a huge number off the '
power wagon..


ismnotwasm

(41,919 posts)
42. Colonialism?
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 06:21 PM
Dec 2019

I mean, whiteness doesn’t begin and end in the west. At any rate it’s a long conversation with a lotta history

whathehell

(28,968 posts)
46. Nope.
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 06:50 PM
Dec 2019

China* and Japan are two powerful Non-White counries that have never been colonized.

The story of how countries around the developed is a long and complicated one. One book that explains a lot, imo, is "Guns. Germs and Steel". I recommend it highly.


" Minus the relatively infintesimal Hong Kong

unblock

(51,974 posts)
40. he is in many ways the epitome of white power.
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 06:11 PM
Dec 2019

virtually all his success in life he owes to the whiteness of his skin and other ways in which he's on the top of a social hierarchy based on factors and circumstances he was born with or born into.

anyone else who behaved like he did would get fired, beaten up, beaten down, etc.

he only gets away with it because he's rich and massively privileged.


in a way, he's the perfect symbol of white supremacy because without the artificial power structure deeming "white" superior to "other", he'd be *nothing*. no debate about, oh, no, maybe he got where he is based on talent. nope. everything he does and every way he does it would fail miserably if he couldn't check all those privilege boxes.

ismnotwasm

(41,919 posts)
43. I agree.
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 06:24 PM
Dec 2019

I do understand that white folks of good intent get uncomfortable when the term “white people” is used, so I tend to use the “power structure of whiteness”, which is actually well documented. Actually first ran into in a sociology course a long time ago.

whathehell

(28,968 posts)
44. Sorry, I don't agree. Virtually all of his power is based
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 06:25 PM
Dec 2019

NOT on "the whiteness of his skin", but the green-ness of
of his money.

Nature Man

(869 posts)
48. Tell me with a straight face
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 07:42 PM
Dec 2019

how long Barack Obama would have got away with half the shit this motherfucker has gotten away with?

whathehell

(28,968 posts)
61. Not a nano second, but neither would Bill Clinton
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 08:14 PM
Dec 2019

They impeached him for nothing CLOSE to what Trump's gotten away with.

unblock

(51,974 posts)
69. He ticks all the boxes. Rich is certainly one of them
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 09:20 PM
Dec 2019

But my point is that he didn't earn any of it. He was born into money, just as he was born into whiteness.

It's not a question of which characteristic benefits him the most. The point is that all the characteristics he has going for him are based on the social hierarchy. Outsized wealth is one of those unearned characteristics.

He's rich *and* white *and* male *and* straight *and* Christian (socially if not spiritually)

Beyond that he's got *nothing*. It's not like he has a talent and just happened to be rich and white and so on. He has no talent. Even the talents he claims to have (great negotiator for his own multimillion dollar private real estate business) are based hugely on privilege.


In a society where everyone was judged on merit he'd be toast.

Afromania

(2,767 posts)
55. I do not forgive the white people that voted and or support that man.
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 08:05 PM
Dec 2019

And I don't forgive any white people that try to tell me I should understand those white people. I also don't forgive the ones that let this happen by not telling uncle Billy and aunt Sally to shut the duck up. Additionally I don't forgive the "but they are good neighbors, friends, whatever they are TO YOU subset of white people.

And for bonus time I don't trust any idiot was brown people that voted for that momo.

Double plus good bonus time non trust for the white people that use the argument I had to attach the bonus time rider for.


Lastly if you are none of the above you're alright. You haven't directly or indirectly supported people who would have no problem with me being purged.

coti

(4,612 posts)
57. I agree with this wholeheartedly- the people who voted for him. In fact, I say it to myself
Thu Dec 19, 2019, 08:07 PM
Dec 2019

as I shake my head in disbelief daily.

I'll never fucking forgive them for what they've done to our country.

SMC22307

(8,088 posts)
72. There's a massive voter purge going on in Wisconsin...
Fri Dec 20, 2019, 12:57 AM
Dec 2019

is this Young asshole doing anything about that, or spending his precious time busting on white people? Less online "activism" like Obama suggested and more getting out in the real world. Making sure people are actually registered to vote in November (and with appropriate ID where required) would be a good start...

And is Young equally as angry at those who sat out and gave us Trump? AAs in the Philly area didn't turn out for Hillary like they did for Obama and look where that got us -- prime Pennsylvania electoral votes to Fat Nixon.

These garbage pieces do not help.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
73. Posting on DU isn't any more activism than Twitter & social media since those are more popular
Fri Dec 20, 2019, 01:00 AM
Dec 2019

he called out left wing users but he would have been better off calling out alt right trolls who got their start with gamergate. That is bigger problem IMO so I disagreed with Obama when he said it. We all have a right to share our opinion including Young as well as yourself.

jcmaine72

(1,773 posts)
74. The sooner white people are a minority in this country the better it will be for all people
Fri Dec 20, 2019, 06:34 AM
Dec 2019

Including whites. Not only does American democracy need to be saved from the whites who voted for Trump, but they obviously need to be saved from themselves.

SMC22307

(8,088 posts)
112. ...
Sat Dec 21, 2019, 09:55 PM
Dec 2019


The whites in my world who voted for Trump are educated and doing well financially. That you think they need to be 'saved from themselves" is hilarious. But, sure, try that approach in 2020 and see how many votes you get for the Democratic candidate.

whathehell

(28,968 posts)
93. 13 % percent of Black men voted for Trump, us many in
Sat Dec 21, 2019, 04:17 PM
Dec 2019

the AA community never bothered to vote at all...They had the lowest
turnout for a presidential election in many years.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,149 posts)
110. The problem was white evangelicals. White non-evangelicals favoured Clinton (just)
Sat Dec 21, 2019, 08:06 PM
Dec 2019

The exit poll: https://edition.cnn.com/election/2016/results/exit-polls

Whites were 71% of the voters, and voted 37% Clinton, 57% Trump. So that's 26.27% of the total votes and 40.47% respectively.

"White born-again or evangelical Christians" were 26% of the vote, and voted 16% Clinton, 80% Trump. That's 4.16% and 20.8%.

Therefore, the white vote that was not 'born again or evangelical Christian' was 26.27-4.16=22.11% for Clinton, and 40.47-20.8=19.67% for Trump.

SMC22307

(8,088 posts)
113. That's why there was a whiff of panic in Fat Nixon's tweet...
Sat Dec 21, 2019, 10:00 PM
Dec 2019

about the editor from Christianity Today calling for his impeachment. IMPOTUS knows he's toast without white evangelicals and I hope like hell that between now and November 2020 more and more abandon ship.

 

YOHABLO

(7,358 posts)
127. I find this type article divisive and useless.
Sun Dec 22, 2019, 08:51 PM
Dec 2019

it doesn't lead us in a very positive direction. Why you posted it, is beyond me.

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