Evangelicals are NOT Christian, they ar"e something else

[Drahthaardogs]

Christians are called to detach themselves from power, reject violence and sacrifice themselves for God and others out of love. Christians must live the way Christ chose to: not as "persecutors, but persecuted; not arrogant, but meek; not as snake-oil salesmen, but subservient to the truth; not impostors, but honest,"

- Pope Francis


Make no mistake, these are the modern Sanhedrin, the den of vipers Christ spoke about.

These are NOT followers of Christ.

[empedocles]

1. Could we say, 'too many Evangelicals' are not Christian?

[Drahthaardogs]

24. No. They have bastardized the Christian faith

They changed the bible, have no apostolic tradition, and are generally so far removed from Orthodox teaching as to be incomprehensible. Whatever christ they wirship is NOT the same Christ as the Catholic and Orthodox, and even mainstream Protestanism. Its full of charletons and gimmicks.

[LAS14]

27. Check out sojo.net I've always taken pride...

... in the idea that Democrats reject prejudice of any kind. It's dangerous to say "all" about any group.

[smirkymonkey]

51. Exactly!

Some people here have a very difficult time getting that simple concept through their thick skulls.

[Drahthaardogs]

62. Fuck that. Over 85% of evangelicals voted Trump

Yep. Im doubling down

[smirkymonkey]

66. What? I was agreeing with you?

WTF? What is your problem? See down thread for proof.

[Drahthaardogs]

69. Sorry, i thought your reply was to the defender

I just cannot imagine why anyone would defend these evangelicals.

[LAS14]

28. Good advice. Thanks. See my reply #27. nt

[Mariana]

35. I have a question.

Why don't decent Evangelicals just change the name on their church signs to something else? Given that a very large majority of the Evangelicals are hateful right-wing nutcases, why would decent people use the word "Evangelical" to describe themselves? The very name Evangelical has been thoroughly tainted, and will be associated with Donald J. Trump forevermore. Think how much time and energy decent Evangelicals would save, if they didn't have to leap up and say, "But we're not all like that!" every single time the subject comes up?

[radical noodle]

2. We should not lump all evangelicals together

Granted, a great many of them have fallen off the cliff into crazy-hood, but not all.

[Polly Hennessey]

3. No, let us lump them altogether.

Evangelicals are, in my estimation, a cult. How easily they bow down to the disgusting tRump. They are a political cult.

[LAS14]

29. I've always taken pride ....

... in the idea that Democrats reject prejudice of any kind. It's dangerous to say "all" about any group.

[jberryhill]

53. Not when it comes to voluntary associations

There is a huge difference between a group defined by an innate characteristic, and a group defined by voluntary association.

I’m not about to say “some, but not all Nazis...”

[smirkymonkey]

54. +1000

Thank YOU. I am now going to bang my head against the wall because of the fact that so many people on this board who don't get that a right-wing hate cult calling itself "Christian" does not in fact make them official "Christians"

[Archae]

4. They don't worship God, or Jesus, or even Mary.

They worship the Bible.

(Their version of it)

[dalton99a]

5. Kick

[milestogo]

6. I think we have to distinguish between the churches and the people in them.

These conservative churches haven't always been politicized. Not all of them are now. But to the degree that the right wing influence has spread to these churches, they are more politics than religion. The people are brainwashed.

[Mariana]

20. And who is going to make the final determination

of who is a Christian and who isn't? The OP seems to feel qualified to do that, and has declared that all Evangelicals are non-Christians, but that brush is probably way too broad.

[stopbush]

7. Oh, they're Christians. For sure.

Make no mistake, they are Xians through and through.

After all, it was Jesus who proclaimed that he came not to bring peace, but a sword. It was Jesus who proclaimed that unless you love him more than your immediate family, you are not worthy. It was Jesus who proclaimed that the only, ONLY way into heaven was to profess him as your savior (Jews, Non-believers, Muslims? Jesus says you’re going to hell).

Let’s not sugarcoat the horrible things Jesus proclaimed. Talk about a loathsome megalomaniac.

[Mariana]

17. +1. This bigoted bullshit has long since gotten old.

The OP is essentially declaring that bad people are non-Christians, by definition.

[stopbush]

19. Yep. The knee jerk acceptance that being a Christian is somehow something GOOD,

indeed, something BETTER than not being a Xian has got to stop.

I don’t care whether you are an evangelical, a moderate or a twice-a-year Xian, you are putting make believe on the same level as fact and expecting (demanding?) that the rational world treat your self-serving fantasies as fact. It’s elitist, self aggrandizing and presumptuous.

[NightWatcher]

8. "Christians" are not Christians anymore, just like repubs are not conservative or patriotic anymore.

[gibraltar72]

9. As a recovering Evangelical

I call them Christstains.

[Codeine]

10. Francis is the head of a global power structure

built on both physical and mental enslavement enacted over centuries. A worldwide pedophile protection society that dwarfs the fevered imaginations of the Q loonies.

I’ll not give Francis’ opinion any particular weight, thanks.

[RestoreAmerica2020]

11. Not sure all evangelicals, yet those who have allowed themselves with elmalhombrein wh

..and gop ..well those who claim to be Christian are actually the antithesis of a man called Jesus.

[shanti]

12. Especially those

who follow preachers of the wealth gospel. They are disgusting.

[ck4829]

13. K&R

[Mariana]

14. I don't think you get to make that call.

Anyway, every Christian says that about the sects he doesn't agree with. Just because they interpret the book differently than you do, doesn't make them non-Christians.

[Drahthaardogs]

25. Its not even the same book

And their translation differs. They are farce

[smirkymonkey]

26. People who worship Trump, who are filled with hatred, who discriminate against minorities and other

groups that they do not approve of and even wish for their death are NOT Christians. I don't think it is a matter of interpretation. Nobody who subscribes to such values could ever be called a true Christian. They are heretics and hypocrites and should be called out as such.

[Mariana]

36. If they aren't Christians, what are they, exactly?

Are they atheists? Do they secretly follow some other religion? What are they?

[smirkymonkey]

37. They are hypocritical, hate-filled, false-Christians.

They may call themselves Christian, but they have no idea what it means to be a true Christian and follow the teachings of Christ.

[Mariana]

38. You've already told me they aren't Christians.

If they aren't Christians, they must be something else. The options are pretty limited. What do you think? Are they atheists? Are they secretly followers of some other religion, pretending to be Christians?

[smirkymonkey]

41. Why are you defending these people?

They are part of a political hate movement. Why can't you get it through your head that these people are not following the tenets of Christianity? They are hiding behind the label of "Christian" but it is really just a cover for hate-filled, racist, right-wing ideology. There is nothing religious about it. They are NOT religious. They are NOT Christian, no matter what they might like to call themselves.

Stop being so obtuse.

[FreeState]

50. Why are you protecting Christianity?

Just as valid question in my opinion.

[smirkymonkey]

60. Um, where are you getting the idea that I am defending Christianity?

I am simply stating that these hate-filled Evangelicals are not true Christians. I am an atheist, but my claim is that these hate-filled, racist, Trump-worshipping idiots are not genuine Christians:

Chris·ti·an·i·ty
/ˌkrisCHēˈanədē/

the religion based on the person and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, or its beliefs and practices.
Christian quality or character.

Chris·ti·an·i·ty
/ˌkrisCHēˈanədē/

the religion based on the person and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, or its beliefs and practices.
Christian quality or character.

Christian1[ kris-chuh n ]
adjective
of, relating to, or derived from Jesus Christ or His teachings:
a Christian faith.
of, pertaining to, believing in, or belonging to the religion based on the teachings of Jesus Christ:

exhibiting a spirit proper to a follower of Jesus Christ; Christlike:

Go ahead and tell me that these people are real Christians. None of these Evangelical hate-mongerers actually follow the person and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, therefore they are not real Christians in the true sense of the definition.

[Mariana]

57. Please point to where I've defended them. I have done no such thing.

They are hiding behind the label of "Christian" but it is really just a cover for hate-filled, racist, right-wing ideology. There is nothing religious about it. They are NOT religious.

That clarifies things a bit. You think only non-religious people would follow a hate-filled, racist, right-wing ideology.

Stop being so bigoted.

[smirkymonkey]

63. What?

I can't even deal with this anymore. I have never implied such a thing and I won't say what I am thinking right now. Stating that these bigots are not religious does not mean those who aren't religious are bigoted. What a stupid inference.

I'm done with you. You are hopelessly dense when it comes to this topic.

[Drahthaardogs]

48. A cult who made up their own rules to justify their disgusting beliefs

Like slavery, prosperity gospel, and double predestination

[Skidmore]

15. I tend to view all religions,

orthodox or not, as mechanisms for accumulating and marshalling power. They are particularly pernicious when successfully usurping the power of the state. History is rife with egregious tyranny of religious power structures.

[DavidDvorkin]

16. I bet they weren't even born in Scotland.

[hatrack]

45. *SNORT*

[Hortensis]

18. How's this different from what hatemongers

in “the other tribe” say about you when they call you a radical socialist determined to destroy democracy because you vote Democrat?

[roamer65]

21. Religion is poison.

Humans contort it to achieve their goals of more power and wealth.

[Iggo]

22. Nah, they're all christians. Even bad christians.

[pwb]

23. I don't think the leadership and big money grabbers represent well

the entire religion.

[edhopper]

30. sorry they are Christains

You do not get to define Christianity for others. They could easily say you are not a Christain.
This is the problem with belief. It is all subjective.

And Evangelicals have more in common with Christains throughout history than today's progressive ones.

[Drahthaardogs]

32. Wrong. The oldest Christisn Church are the Coptics

And evangelical churches look nothing like the Coptics. Americans changed cricket enough that it became baseball. Rugby became football. Evangelical churches are NOT christian.

[Hortensis]

43. But evangelicals - liberal, conservative, black, Muslim,

Hispanic, white -- are all modern-day versions of corrupt "Sanhedrin den of vipers" Jews.

My husband's Jewish. He's having a nice evening right next to me, and I won't be showing your post to him. I don't think anyone needs this, btw.

[Drahthaardogs]

46. Jesus was a Jew. The Sanhedrin were a corrupt religious sect

If you want to make that a jewish insult you better stretch before you make that quantum leap

[Hortensis]

67. Describing the holy, revered high court of ancient Judaism and

of biblical times, dissolved out of religious hatred during the dark ages by a Byzantine emperor, as "a corrupt religious sect" is intensely antisemitic. I don't have to bother my husband to get his take on that.

And that's before you even get to using comparison with Jews to smear millions of today's evangelical Christians, some of them right here on DU, many of them among our AA Democrats.

This is NOT a den of vipers.



And neither is this.



AND, neither is this.

[Drahthaardogs]

79. Of for Fucks sake....the Pharisees and Sanhedrin of the Gospels

Wepre corrupt, and it was Jesus who called them a nest of vipers (not me).

As far as talking about the most holy blah, blah, blah. Fuck the Pope is pretty common here on DU, in fact there's a nice anti-pope post in this thread. So it's cool to hammer the Magesterium and evangelicals, but no one can say anything about them? Please, spare me the drama.

[Hortensis]

80. You've already identified yourself. nt

[edhopper]

58. Throughout History

Not the original Christians. Throughout History!

[Drahthaardogs]

70. Roman rite is technically the oldest

Nicea happened in 325-

[edhopper]

73. That has nothing to do with the fact that Evangelicals act

more like Christian's throughout history than modern progressive ones do.

It is absurd to say they are not true Christians.

[Drahthaardogs]

74. Lol...No. They. Dont.

Not even close. Who? Falwell? Billy Graham?

[edhopper]

75. Torquemada

John Hawthorne
Various Popes...

[Drahthaardogs]

76. Fuck...Popes are NOT evangelicals

Thats exactly the point.

[edhopper]

77. It seems I haven't explained this well

the Evangelicals today do not behave differently than Christians have THROUOUTthe entire history of Christianity. To say they are not Christians because they are mean, nasty or will do harm others. that they are intollerant is not reason to say they are not true Christians. Christians have acted this way THROUGHOUT the history of Christianity.
The not true Christiann argument is completely fallacious and easily rebuked.

If someone says they believe in Jesus, they are Christians. period.

[Funtatlaguy]

34. Many Christians and/or Evangelicals say that Dems can't be Christian

Because of our support for abortion and gay rights.
I hear it all the time here in the Bible Belt south.

[Drahthaardogs]

42. Because they are Southern Baptist/Born Again nutjobs

Not Christain

[RandySF]

31. "No True Scotsman"

[RandySF]

33. Stop this

Bin Laden was a Muslim, Netanyahu is a Jew and Jerry Falwell, Jr. is a Christian.

[Drahthaardogs]

40. Jerry Falwell is no Christain

I am sorry, but what he BELIEVES is so far removed from what Orthodox teaching is, it can no longer be called Christain teaching.

It's something else.

[Bradical79]

52. "Orthodox teaching" is a pretty meaningless statement...

...at least when talking about other Christian groups. It's just conformation to old teachings which themselves are derived from an edited codex of selected Christian books, and generations of opinions of other corrupt men.

[Crunchy Frog]

39. If there's an antichrist, then they're it.

With a few exceptions, obviously.

[Bradical79]

44. They're as Christian as Catholics, or any other Christian group -nt

[OliverQ]

47. As a Jew, can we not compare Evangelicals to the Sanhedrin or Pharisees?

The Sanhedrin was the Jewish Court. I'm not sure what makes them comparable to Evangelicals or Republicans.

And the Pharisees, while viewed as flawed in the New Testament, were mainly viewed as adhering too much to the letter of the law. They were too legalistic. But Paul was a Pharisee, as was Joseph of Aramethia and others associated with Jesus. Some scholars contend Jesus himself was a Pharisee. His teaching on divorce comes from a Pharasaical school of teaching.

The Pharisees were no where near as problematic as Evangelicals.

[Drahthaardogs]

49. The Sanhedrin were corrupt leaders more concerned

With expanding their wealth and power than following their religion.

I find them quite comparable to evangelicals.

[OliverQ]

56. No they weren't.

[Drahthaardogs]

59. In the New Testament, they were corrupt, held a sham, trial

Because they were afraid of losing power. That is the reference tjis argument is framed in.

[OliverQ]

61. The New Testament gets some things wrong about Pharisees.

Your posts come across as very anti-Semitic. Paul was a Pharisee. Jesus is believed to be a Pharisee based on some of his teachings and schools of thought. Joseph of Aramithea and Gamaliel were Pharisees who defended Jesus and the Apostles. Gamaliel was also a member of the Sanhedrin.

[Drahthaardogs]

64. Its anti corrupt religious leaders

And seems to me its anti fake christian, not jewish.

[handmade34]

55. "Evangelicals are NOT Christian"

Evangelicals use dogma as an excuse to feel superior and justify (or excuse) their base needs and desires

I grew up with one, I know!!

[edhopper]

78. Sounds just like

a Christian to me.

[Maru Kitteh]

65. Um. Actually yes they are. Inconvenient that you

don’t approve of them but Christians, they are.

[smirkymonkey]

71. Do they follow the teachings of Christ?

I don't think they do. They follow the beliefs of a right-wing political ideology and like to call themselves "Christian" but they are not technically Christian because they do not follow the teachings of Christ.

[OregonBlue]

68. Dominionists. Very, very scary.

[Maribelle]

72. Evangelicals will have major issues when they get to the pearly gates ...

when Saint Peter asks them what did they did to atone for their sins

there will be this world-wide collective "doh"

which will precede their thunderous gnashing of teeth

as light dawns on their Marbleheads

that Jesus atoned for original sin and not for the sins of the world like they tried to teach

and they will have to atone for their own sins of pride, greed, lust, envy, gluttony, wrath and sloth, to name just a few

But how can they atone once they're facing Saint Peter?

They better believe in Purgatory!

But I don't.

[regnaD kciN]

81. Evangelicals in many other parts of the world tend to be more "Christian"...

...even if their definition of "Christian" might still be too traditionally strict on certain moral teachings than most here would like. For example, evangelicals in the U.K. and Australia tend to be rather to the left politically, critical of capitalism and insistent on the need to care for those "on the bottom" in society.

In the U.S., it's different, because U.S. evangelical Christianity has veered into being more of a "civil religion." This is a term that Abraham Lincoln used to describe religious teachings that promoted the national image. It didn't matter if they were true or not, merely that they gave divine sanction to the civil order of the country.

This became a central, if unspoken tenet, of the "religious right" even before the Reagan/Falwell/Robertson era. One of the major manifestos of the incipient religious right, Francis Schaeffer's book and film series How Then Are We To Live?, took this tack. Rather than arguing for Christianity on the basis of the truth of its message, Schaeffer began by highlighting the chaotic times we lived in, connected those times with the decadence of the late Roman Empire, and then advanced the notion that both of those were caused by a decline in religious belief and, therefore, the need of a belief in an ultimate "supreme being" with a moral code to give order to society and halt its disintegration. The flaw, as I pointed out after screenings of the film series in local protestant churches where I was living at the time, was that it wasn't about the necessity of the Christian God -- that, in fact, any supreme being would do, as long as said being provided a moral code that was congruent with society. You could have the Holy Trinity, YHWH, Allah, Odin, Zeus, or anyone else; it only could be seen as promoting traditional Christianity by reason that it was already the dominant religion in the U.S. at the time.

Needless to say, my criticism fell on deaf ears locally and, indeed, the same happened nationally. If you look at any of the propaganda of the religious right in the late '70s and early '80s, you'll find the "civil religion" aspect to the forefront: America used to be great, now it's a mess, and the abandonment of That Old Time Religion is the reason. Few noticed that said Old Time Religion wasn't Christian in content at all -- it was just a belief in a God, Christian only because of circumstance, who had a strict moral code of rights and wrongs that just happened to coincide to the values that they wanted to make the agenda of American society (hard work, individualism, military strength, sexual restraint, patriarchy). And such it has been with evangelicalism in America for the past four decades or more.

[hunter]

82. I don't respect anyone who worships gods so pathetic as to require humans defend them.

If someone wants to worship an asshole god, let them.

Just don't expect me to respect them or their asshole gods, imaginary or not.

Trump voting evangelicals are assholes who worship an asshole god.

[Iggo]

83. Plus plus plus plus plus.

[MineralMan]

84. I am not competent to say who is or is not a Christian.

I have to take their word for it, frankly. It is not me who decides. It's up to the individual to say what religion he or she follows.

If they say they are Christians, who am I to say they are not?

I just people on their actions, not the labels they apply to themselves.

I am not a Christian. I have no religious beliefs at all. So, if someone claims to be a Christian, so be it. I don't care what label they use for themselves. Clearly, terrible people can be Christians. I don't judge their beliefs - just their words and actions.

[Hotler]

85. They are dominionist.

Dominionism or Christian sharia "Charia". an ideology of Totalitarian theocracy. It asserts that Christians should seize earthly power and use it to forcibly fulfill biblical prophecies and bring Christ back. The United States is the Dominionists' stronghold and seizing control of the US is the movement's first major objective. Dominionists are the direct, Christian equivalent of Islamists demanding Sharia law.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Dominionism

Think Pence, Barr, Pompeo, the orange one's religious advisor.

[fescuerescue]

86. I need some popcorn

It's fun watching a religious debate on a virtual atheist forum.