Ok. Imagine that it's soon after the 2020 election and Trump has lost to the Democratic candidate...

[Kablooie]

Perhaps he tried to contest the results but the numbers were too large so he wasn't able to flip it.

He is now a lame duck but will remain president for over 2 months before the new president is sworn in.
Once he leaves office he will be vulnerable to a slew of civil and criminal lawsuits but he has a history of not suffering legal consequences for his criminality and will probably assume he'll overcome these as well.
The normal orderly transition of power also won't concern him; he dismissed the Obama administration's transition plans when he originally took power. He will have a little over 2 months remaining as president so what will be on his mind? I'm sure of one thing ... Revenge.

He will want to get revenge on anyone who opposed him and make them regret their choice. He will want to mess up the Democratic president's term as much as possible. His main pleasure would be to watch the new president fail at the job. What could he do in his last months of executive power to get revenge? I don't really know myself but it's unnerving to think of Trump if his only concern were personal vendettas instead of stroking voters or a peaceful transition of power to the next president.

This is just a concern I have. It's certainly preferable to 4 more years of Trump but it won't be pretty. He's going to screw America one way or the other before he goes.

[dhol82]

1. I certainly worry about this.

War? Drop a nuke on Iran? Arrest the democratic members of Congress?
Damn, anything could happen. The man is and will be a menace.

[dewsgirl]

2. The nuclear threat is the number one thing that made me

start paying attention.

[dhol82]

11. Totally!

Just hope that the joint chiefs are smart enough to stop the fucker!

[dewsgirl]

14. How many of them are acting?

[dhol82]

16. Doesn't matter. Joint chiefs are joint chiefs.

Well, unless he fires everybody.
Damn, just thought of that.
If everybody is acting, then trump controls everything.

[dewsgirl]

17. Indeed. The people left in place and most of the current Acting

positions have pledged their loyalty to him. Last week, I posted a thread stating five people belonging to the upper eschalons of the Pentagon resigning within a week. A member here has a nephew that recently resigned from the Pentagon...the reason, they wanted him to pledge his loyalty.😳

[dhol82]

18. We seem to be getting down to scary times.

I will march in protest but I have no weapons to fight with.
Just hope we do not end up in Gilead.

[dewsgirl]

20. This morning

there was an article quoting Trump, saying some nonsense about how we need to listen to Christ, between that and Barr and Pompeo fighting for a Theocracy, I cannot help but think of Gilead..I think about this quote more and more every single day.
"When they slaughtered Congress, we didn't wake up. When they blamed terrorists and suspended the Constitution, we didn't wake up then either," she continues. "They said it would be temporary. Nothing changes instantaneously

[dhol82]

46. Yup. It just seems like we are getting closer and closer.

[MyOwnPeace]

41. Possibly........

quick action on the 25th amendment. Those cabinet members only have more to lose by sticking with IQ45 - could perhaps save face by moving to save the country.

I know - perhaps just "wishful thinking" - but there can be times when that is all we have left................

By the way - this can only happen if we GET OUT THE VOTE!!!!!!!!

[Mr.Bill]

23. I think they already have.

More than once.

[AllaN01Bear]

3. i have this gut feeling that if dem candidate wins , he wont leave and disavow the dem.

[Volaris]

21. I think the Secret Service and Federal Marshall's Office might have something to say about that...

And it isn't something trump will like.

It also isn't gonna be up to him. After 1201pm on the 20th of January, nobody is gonna listen to a word he utters. And if the Secret Service is under orders from the new and legal president to remove him from the building, REMOVED HE WILL BE.

[PatrickforO]

24. Yes, I have a friend in the Secret Service. I asked him if he

thought that Trump could find a way to stay in power if he loses. He said no.

There are still too many people in these service and in other federal services who put country above party.

[exboyfil]

4. Corrupt pardons

Lots of off shore banking payments. Chaos pardons. Firing all ambassadors and highest level military officers.

I suspect he steps down before inauguration day to get a Pence pardon.

Declassify and release the most damaging secret documents.

[jmowreader]

34. The ambassadors aren't an issue

They're all routinely replaced when a new president comes in.

[JudyM]

47. Yep, he and his minions are likely already plotting all the flourishes of his eventual exit.

[dewsgirl]

5. I worry about what will happen once he is acquitted in the Senate,

he will be out for absolute revenge and he will feel untouchable.
I know what you mean though, I just feel the danger is a bit more immediate than the 2020 election.

[Kablooie]

6. Yes, you're right but once he has lost any future as president he will be many times as vengeful.

He probably has hopes of reworking things so he remains president for life like the Chinese president did.

[dewsgirl]

7. Correct, like one of the posters above said, mass pardons

firings, chaos. I also see him trying to jail Dems, I actually see him trying this fairly soon, with Brennan and the ridiculous investigation into the origins of the Russia probe.

[NBachers]

8. I believe that there are those who are working on an effective checkmate for this eventuality.

Don't ask me what it'll be; I don't know. But I've seen evidence that Democratic minds are being pro-active, rather reactive, in planning their future moves.

[ecstatic]

28. Which evidence?

Seriously, I would like to know.

[NBachers]

30. Go back over the moves Democratic leaders have made from way before the impeachment to the present.

I believe there's evidence of planning and strategy to bring us to the point of successful impeachment. It didn't happen through reactive present-moment-by-present-moment counter-intuition. I believe they planned out a roadmap to get us here.

I'm hoping there is similar strategy and planning being applied to the successful transfer of power if, and when, trump is defeated in 2020.

[Cartoonist]

9. If he lives that long

Losing the election will kill him.

[dhol82]

12. Won't happen soon enough.

[dewsgirl]

15. Promise?😉

[WyattKansas]

25. Hopefully all of his Republican co-conspirators go in self destruct mode as well.

Everyone who helped make the wannabe Gordon Gekko their king should suffer an extremely slow burning spontaneous combustion.

[42bambi]

10. Hopefully he will be far too busy dodging all his

indictments that's waiting for him.

[dhol82]

13. You're way too optimistic.

[Eyeball_Kid]

19. Let's also imagine...

that a Democratic president appoints Kamala Harris to be the AG. Harris will keep Trumpy so busy, he won’t know night from day.

[leftieNanner]

22. Kamala Would be Fabulous!

It would be wonderful to see him taken down by a GIRL (deliberate word choice here).

[brewens]

26. Trump worshippers grabbing their cousins and kids and heading to the compound with their

AR's and AK's to start the civil war. Take plenty of snacks and energy drinks and we'll send the lube!

[SCVDem]

36. Can't forget the oxygen tanks

and hoverounds!

They think every Marine vet believes like them?

I have given up my policy of no guns!

Happy now, assholes?

[Kurt V.]

27. of course

[sandensea]

29. He'll try to invoke Continuity of Government powers I bet

As long as the Joint Chiefs intervene, it's alright.

We might even be treated to the spectacle of seeing Cheeto dragged from the oval office by the hair plugs.

[bobbieinok]

31. Just look at what damage to the govt the GOP legislature has done in WI

[bluestarone]

51. Glad you mentioned this! (my thinking as well)

THIS is exactly how the rethugs will react when tRUMP loses! Wherever they can cause trouble they WILL!

[bobbieinok]

56. IIRC the GOP legislature in NC has acted similarily--and in VA maybe?

[Gidney N Cloyd]

32. With 2 months left he probably wont do anything that doesn't have dollar signs or pardons involved.

At worst, some important problem will come up and he'll refuse to lift a finger (well, maybe one finger). Other than that I think he'll go peaceably, if ungraciously.

[wnylib]

33. I'm not worried about a nuclear attack. There

are too many safeguards for him to carry it out. I read what they were.once and can' t remember the details now, but there is much more to it than just pushing a button and punching in the codes.

But everything else is possible.

What about making sure all of Putin's main goals are.carrred.out while he can.still do it?

More immediate than the election will be his retaliation after the Senate acquits him. Instead of waiting to nullify the election results, or rig them, he might just use the claim that the impeachment was an attempted coup to arrest Democrats, starting with Pelosi, Schiff, Nadler, Schumer, and Biden. A grand announcement that he is saving American democracy. A call for RW militias to back him.

[wnylib]

35. Just to add that if he does retaliate with arrests

and the claim of a coup (with 'evidence' from investigations by Barr's Justice Department), he would, jn effect, be a dictator. No need to worry about elections then. Dem party becomes illegal for trying to overthrow him. Or at least gets tagged as a criminal party not to be trusted.

[Sloumeau]

37. If Trump loses, he will pull a Richard Nixon.

Shortly after his election loss, he will resign for something like "health reasons". Mike Pence will become President and Pardon Trump for any Federal Crime he might have ever done in the 21st Century, figuring crimes before that would be outside any statutes of limitation.

Someone, either Trump before he resigns, or Pence after he becomes the new President, will pardon all sorts of people, including Paul Manafort and Rudy Giuliani. This will be to reward them for keeping their mouths shut in the past and to give them no reason to open their mouths in the future. We will know who the biggest crooks are by who is pardoned. Do not be surprised if Trump and/or Pence pardons all kinds of campaign donors for all kinds of things. That's just apparently how crooked Republicans do things nowadays.

[MyOwnPeace]

42. Of all of the possibilities posted........

I think this one is the most realistic and probable. The only thing missing:

Where will he live?

I'd bet on one of the "family properties" outside the United States - where no state can get him for legal problems within the state courts.

If that happens: GOOD RIDDANCE!!!!

[wnylib]

48. I don't think Trump will go quietly.

Michael Cohen, who knows Trump far better than we do, said Trump had no intention to leave. I believe he intends to rig the election to stay in office. Besides his ego and love of power, he is beholden to some people who want him there..

He would leave only if cornered. In that case I could see him quitting to get a pardon.

Nixon quit only because some Pubs in Congress talked him into it. That will not happen with Trump. There were people, including me, who asked how Nixon could be pardoned when there was no conviction. A lot of people believed the nation had been through enough and it should all be forgotten and left behind.

Not me. I wanted a more complere investigation. I wanted accountability. Have a trial as an accomplice to the burglsry and air it all. Then let Ford pardon him if he wanted to. We reap the results today of not being more thorough then, not making the public aware of how dangerous a power abusing president could be and how they operate. Recognize it the next time before it"s too late.

[MyOwnPeace]

53. Correct on the pardons..............

Jerry Ford screwed it up way back when.
They should have gone full-court into the charges and meted out justice - and THEN Pres. Ford could do his pardons if he felt so inclined.
Instead, they all got away.
And then what?
Ronnie Raygun - the Iran-Contra affair. Another whole slew of people got away free (and that includes W's Daddy!)

And while I hate to bring it up - our current Madam Speaker did us no favors in declaring that there was no "impeachment on the table" regarding "W's" administration and their lying us into the War in Iraq. Those idiots (I'm talking about YOU, CHENEY!!!!) knew they could get away with it and not have to pay the price.

Yes, we need to follow through with all of the chaos and crimes that IQ45 has brought to our country.

FRY his fat a$$ - there's plenty to go around!

[Fritz Walter]

38. Deliberately tank the economy?

As if his vengeful tariff policies, skyrocketing federal deficit, and other economic blunders aren’t already laying the groundwork for the next Depression, what’s to stop him from taking his vengeance out on all of us, even 1-percenters?

He could move (the rest of) his ill-gotten assets off-shore or into gold or other “safe” investments. When the stock market plummets, he’ll blame that consequence on the Democrats, main-stream news media (maybe even Faux Gnus), other nations, Federal civil service employees, and any/everyone he believes opposed him.

Weirder things are happening every day.

[Takket]

39. The House should just take a page out of drumpf's book

If he does something we don’t like, just sue and say he can’t do it. Tie it up in court.

There is literally a case that has been in the courts for months of drumpf saying he is immune from investigation. That is patently absurd and he will lose, but he has stalled for months just making the case.

So just sue and tie everything up in court until the new president can undo it.

[Turbineguy]

40. Trump will resign in order to mget pardoned by Pence.

[better]

45. How does the "in cases of impeachment" limitation factor in, though? I'm honestly not sure.

One could reasonably argue, as many apparently have, that no crime underlying an impeachment can be pardoned, and whether or not the Senate votes to remove him from office as a result of any articles of impeachment, the fact remains that trump has been impeached.

Until now, I've been a bit bothered by the fact that House Democrats did not include an article of impeachment for bribery, on the basis of the indisputable facts that it is expressly identified in the plain english text of the Constitution as a crime for which the president shall be impeached, and that unlike "abuse of power" which wingnuts can convince themselves the facts for some reason do not constitute, the facts of the Ukraine call very clearly and indisputably equal bribery, whether or not you think said bribery constitutes abuse of power. That's a distinction I think could prove very relevant with moderates and independents.

But contemplating it from the perspective of dealing with pardons, I must admit that this may be another case of it taking a while to fully appreciate the brilliance and foresight of Speaker Pelosi and the rest of the Democratic House leadership. Maybe we're not yet fully appreciating the value of the broader scope encompassed by the abuse of power and obstruction of Congress, in that it lays the groundwork to oppose any pardon, of anyone, for any crimes underlying the articles of impeachment.

Even if the Senate did vote to remove him from office, which I'm sure we all agree it would be generous to call a longshot, it would not constitute a criminal conviction. It follows therefore that Senate acquittal would not constitute criminal acquittal. It would merely permit him to remain in office, and there would be no attachment of double jeopardy indemnification from criminal prosecution and conviction for any underlying criminal acts.

Now admittedly, I'm no constitutional or legal scholar, but it seems reasonably apparent on its face that it may not be possible at this point for any president to pardon trump or any of his cronies for any crime underlying the Ukraine scandal or obstruction, at a minimum.

[mahina]

43. I want to know if the next admin can have access to the briefing docs and

Materials that the Obama administration prepared. They tried to give it to the to the incoming chump admin to help with an orderly transition.

In the 5th Risk Michael Lewis wrote about all the departments that prepared books of transition information that chump inc tossed.

Who does that material belong to if not us?

I think he’ll be too busy thinking about how to save his flabby ass.

Of course it’s in his nature to seek revenge. How small and weak a man he is.

[Kablooie]

50. One advantage Biden has is that he knew a lot of the Obama administration personally.

He would know who to call and work with to recover as much of the transition material as he could.
A lot would be out of date such as contact lists in other countries but I'm sure much of it would help rebuild the decimated government that Trump lords over.

[mahina]

54. Maybe

Whoever they’re going to need. A lot of trustworthy help

[samnsara]

44. it will be hell for any dem prez unless we get the senate too..

[wnylib]

57. For sure. Also, even if he wins the election,

if we have the Senate and keep the House, he,s toast.

[NewJeffCT]

49. My idea

1) Pelosi holds the articles of impeachment because Moscow Mitch won't guarantee a fair trial. He may try to throw her a few small bones, but it won't be enough
2) Dems continue investigations and add 2-3 more articles of impeachment throughout 2020
3) Trump loses election as listed above. (My thought was that the Fox News Sept 2015 Poll had Clinton 47 Trump 45, which was very close to the final vote; the Fox News Sept 2019 poll had Biden 51 Trump 38... so?)

Then:
4) After the election when Republicans are going home for Thanksgiving and/or Christmas holidays, the Democratic senators secretly all stay in town.
5) Pelosi then sends articles of impeachment over to the Senate.
6) 45 Democrats and 2 independents and a handful of Republicans are present and a majority force the impeachment vote and Trump is immediately convicted and removed by a 47-5 margin. Similar margin bars him from holding office again.
7) Republicans cry foul to the media and counter-sue, but rules are rules and things are bogged down long enough that President Biden or Warren is sworn in on inauguration day in January of 2021. The impeachment will prevent immediate pardons while any lawsuits are resolved.
8) Pelosi and Schumer sell it as Democrats playing hardball. If they really wanted to play hardball, they'd impeach Barr and Pence as well.

[MyOwnPeace]

55. SO much of that idea............

is SO much FUN!!!!

But I'm especially liking the last one: "impeach Barr and Pence as well." Oh, HELL yeah!!!!!

Barr especially. Pence - he's just a corn muffin sitting in the background trying to figure out what day it is.

But Barr - he's a snake that did who-knows-what to get his current job - and then is providing the payoff for those nasty deeds he did to get the job.

[Hoyt]

52. Let's win first. Then, we can take care of all that.

[wnylib]

58. He will destroy records, if he hasn't already.

Not so much to protect himself from having them used against him, but to try to ensure that he leaves a great sounding legacy.