My Christmas w/ the Trump Lovers in my Family.

[smirkymonkey]

First of all, I should give them a lot of credit for being good sports about generally refraining from discussing politics at holidays. I know it's hard for them. But I knew sooner or later, it was going to be too much for them to resist and eventually the dam broke.

I'm not sure how it came up, I actually think one of their kids brought it up, but the debate started and it was everyone against me. (I have two other brothers who were not in attendance, one who is a liberal and the other who is a Trump hating Republican - retired milatary officer). Anyway, we started getting into it and they started going into how Trump has basically turned our country into the greatest nation ever. I argued against them stating the debt/deficit, alienating allies, courting dictators, the atrocities at the border, the tariff disaster, the incivility, vulgarity, criminality, incompetence, etc...on and on. They attacked me at every turn and came at me with so much bullshit information that they were so sure about I could not possibly defend myself. They even admitted that he was a disgusting, piggish, horrible man, but that he had kept his promises.

I said "like what? The wall, Hillary in prison, the debt erased, repealing ObamaCare, protecting rights for pre-existing conditions, protecting SS and Medicare, etc. They completely laid into me and refuted everything I said. It was about to become an all out war and I finally said "Enough." "That's it!" "I am not going to discuss this anymore, because no matter what I say, no matter what facts I throw at you, you will never accept it and I will never convince you. And you will never convince me so this conversation is pointless." "This conversation is done."

A few of them, like my mother who had been drinking since breakfast (in her defense she had just had knee replacement surgery and was in a lot of pain, so she started w/ the Baileys in coffee and graduated to the champagne with pomegranate liqueur, and then I'm not sure what.), kept pushing and wanted to push and I just put my foot down and said "NO",
"I will NOT discuss this with you. There is no way this will end up well. We will never agree and it will only create problems so lets just drop it now. It's not worth it." A few more pushes, and a few more pushes back and they finally shut up when they realized I was not going to take the bait.

I love them and they love me. I hate the way they think, but it is not as black and white as the way everyone here thinks the way that most republicans think. There is some nuance. If we stay away from politics, we can get along.

My parents are getting old. I cannot bear to alienate them at this stage in their lives and I know my sister is a good person, however misguided. It is very complicated.

Anyway, Happy New Year, everyone.

[Ohiogal]

1. Good for you SM

What an ordeal that must have been! You did good with what you said. It's like talking to a brick wall with most of them. You're right, they will never accept facts. It's useless to argue.

I have only one sister and she is a Trump hating Republican, although she defends some of what he's done, even though she doesn't like him as a person. If we don't talk politics we get along great, and have managed to do so for a couple of years.

You are so right that it's complicated when you have family members that you love, but hate the way they think.

Please know you're not alone! Hopefully by the end of 2020, we'll be rid of this disgusting, hideous, orange cancer.

[Kath2]

10. I love and hope.

That is all I can do. When relatives do no believe abortion should be a fundamental human right I know they are lost.

[smirkymonkey]

16. Thanks Ohiogal!

It wasn't easy, but at least I have gotten to the point where I am not taking the bait anymore. I think they know I am serious after I refused to attend T-giving dinner after Trump won in 2016. They could tell I wasn't bullshitting and that I was not going to put up with it. It would have been different years ago, but they know that they ran the risk of completely alienating me if they had kept on.

I appreciate your support and I hope, as you do, that we will be rid of this orange menace by the next election! Unlike them, I will not gloat. However, inwardly, I will rejoice!

[DanieRains]

23. Smirky Use The Wild Card - Trump Has Told 15,000 Lies

Isn't there a commandment about lying somewhere?

When they come at you with garbage, just say it is simply referenced in a couple hundred of Trump's lies. Please stop lying to me.

Lying is a strong word. Use it.

Obama supposedly told 27 lies. You can hit em with that.....

[Heartstrings]

39. There is also the 6th Commandment....

Thou shall not commit adultry.

Trump is guilty of that more times than we can count.

[smirkymonkey]

61. They will tell me it is a liberal lie.

That is the problem. You can throw all the facts you have at your disposal, but it won't make a difference. They will never change their minds. Unfortunately.

[abqtommy]

2. With your Mom's drinking I hope she doesn't have any opioids to take, too! That can be more

hazardous than tRUMP!

[smirkymonkey]

4. I was kind of worried about what meds she was taking.

I don't think she's on opioids, but she was much drunker than usual. She is the only one in the family who can't really hold her liquour. I rarely see anyone else out of control, but she just gets loud and obnoxious and says things that are really inappropriate. Fortunately, she is my step-mother, so I am not related by blood. I kind of feel sorry for her, but she is one of those people who really needs to know when to go to bed.

[abqtommy]

8. Thanks for clarifying that. I know I never thought of my Step-Mom as "Mom" but then I don't

like to see any unnecessary suffering. I think you did the best you could under the tRUMP-Humper
circumstances.

[smirkymonkey]

106. Thank you abqtommy.

She has been my step-mom since I was six years old, so I pretty much grew up with her. My mother died in childbirth with my brother when I was 2 1/2 so when my father re-married, we were told to call her mom. We were too little to object or even to think much of it.

They had two children of their own together who I consider to be full siblings. We all get along great (unless politics comes up) My older brother and I are the liberals and her children are the republicans. I honestly think it has a lot to do with empathy, because my mom (step-mom) does not have a shred of it, and apparently my real mother was a kind-hearted saint.

[Delmette2.0]

27. During the House hearings (all of them).

I would start drinking early in the day. Not enough to get drunk, just a nice relaxed hit-the -mute-button rather than throwing it at the tv.

to you and for your Mom.

[smirkymonkey]

62. Thanks Delmette!

to you!

[DENVERPOPS]

53. Valium & ETOH

are even scarier sometimes.

[abqtommy]

86. I agree. When I started using psychiatric medication I stopped drinking since survival is my

goal. It's working!

[Kath2]

3. Happy New Year to you!

I had a similar experience with my relatives. I had to walk outside, smoke, relax and join them again. I absolutely hate Trump and they know it.

[smirkymonkey]

6. Happy New Year Kath!

Fortunately, I am spending a quiet New Year's Eve ordering some great Chinese food and watching movies by myself which is exactly what I want to do! I can't think of a better way to spend the evening! Have a great NYE whatever you decide to do!

[dmr]

5. Hugs to you

I refused to engage for the same reasons you've cited. It's awful. They believe so many lies of important information.

It is very disheartening.

[smirkymonkey]

7. It's like talking to a brick wall.

They refuse to believe anything that goes against their narrative. And I refuse to engage with them. It's pointless.

Thanks dmr! Happy New Year!

[LakeArenal]

42. Bingo! Brick walls. 'Nuff said!

[moose65]

100. There's no way to "convince" them

But maybe we can plant a little seed of doubt. One thing I’ve said is “I’m not taking the bait, and I’m not arguing with you - that’s what they want. They want you and me to argue with each other, so that we don’t notice what they’re doing.” Or something like that 😃

[cilla4progress]

9. This is how we navigate Republican family members

and friends: no discussion zone.

And we continue to love each other, and our shared interests. I have no idea what drives them.

It is FAR more relaxing to be with family and friends on the same side of the political fence!

[smirkymonkey]

63. It's amazing how we can usually behave ourselves since we are pretty much split down the

middle as a family. We have mostly honored the code to refrain from discussing politics at family gatherings, but when people have had a bit too much to drink, all bets are off. My liberal brother will take on the challenge, but I will usually just leave the room. It gets too ugly.

[dalton99a]

11. Their brains have been rewired.

It’s useless trying to argue with them

[smirkymonkey]

17. Yes, I know. That is why I wanted to put a stop to it.

The sad thing is that they have already indoctrinated their young children. The kids have no idea what is going on. They just parrot their parents talking points. I have to admit, it really bothers me.

[renate]

22. "Their brains have been rewired" -- wow, what a perfect description

It explains so much and it really illustrates how pointless it is to try to describe reality to at least a significant percentage of his cult members.

And it also brings a measure of peace and acceptance, in a way. They aren’t being deliberately obtuse (many of them, anyway), they just aren’t themselves any more. It’s still horribly sad, but their being the way they are isn’t a conscious choice.

[Hekate]

12. You done good. Peace in the New Year.

[smirkymonkey]

64. Thanks Hekate!

Peace to you as well. I really hope for a big change in 2020.

[TeamPooka]

13. I only talk to Trump supporters about his upcoming cuts to Social Security and Medicare

and the increased costs a GOP disabled Obamacare will cost them

[smirkymonkey]

19. They think they are immune, but they aren't.

They are upper middle class, but a few major setbacks can turn things around for them. They have four kids and they live very extravagantly. I really hope they don't hit hard times, but there is always a possibility that their fortunes could change.

[lindysalsagal]

14. You're nicer than I would be.

I wouldn't have gone to them in the first place.

[smirkymonkey]

28. If we don't discuss politics, they aren't all that bad.

But I can tell that once they start drinking it is a struggle for them to not bring it up. It's hard. I love them, but I really hate their politics.

[George II]

15. I was able to escape that fate this year, our normal family dinner was cancelled. Whew!

[smirkymonkey]

29. Lucky you!

I hope you weren't alone. Did you have a nice holiday anyway?

[George II]

38. Yes thanks. My wife and I had a nice, peaceful Christmas. I feel your pain, though.....

About 25 years of this, one year off was a dream. We have four redneck in-law "events" a year - Easter, Thanksgiving, Christmas, and a mid-summer barbeque, each equally difficult.

[badhair77]

18. You did the right thing. You made your point and

you controlled the situation. Plus you looked at the long term. That jerk will be gone some day. I hope they see what he really is at some point.

[smirkymonkey]

30. I think eventually they will get it. They even admitted that they thought he was an asshole, but

they thought that he had achieved his goals, such as the "wall". I told them he had not built the wall and that the Mexicans had not paid for it. They all came down on me and told me that the wall had been built. I could not even argue with that. I couldn't even deal with that level of denial. That was the point when I just called quits.

[badhair77]

40. Good move. At least they admit he's an asshole. That's a step. At some point

he will screw them over or he’ll lie about something they know to be true. Now you deserve a break after that ordeal. Enjoy your New Year.

[gristy]

50. Seriously? They thought the wall had been built?

Oh, my.

[pazzyanne]

51. I have a trump loving sister who basically threw me out of "her" family 3 years ago.

In October, we had a long conversation that started at 2 am, and went for 2+ hours. The cracks in her trump love are beginning to show. She has actually started talking to me again, but after airing our differences in an actual conversation we just don't go there anymore. She did agree his administration had done horrendous things like caging children, selling national park lands, etc. However she believes it is his cabinet members that are doing these things. Hard to understand, but I am willing to accept the cracks in the love fest. Maybe there is hope for the future.

[smirkymonkey]

66. That's the problem if you engage. It will never end. They will never let you go and will

drive you insane in the process, which is why you have to nip it in the bud. I am very sorry for what happened to you with your sister. I am glad you are in the process of repairing your relationship.

It makes me so angry that Trump is responsible for destroying so many families in so many different ways. Those at the border and those of us inside of the border who are torn apart by his divisiveness and hatred. Hopefully, everyone will one day see the truth.

[spanone]

20. It's an impossible conversation when facts don't matter.

[smirkymonkey]

31. Exactly. It is pointless.

I was not about to waste my time and create hatred between my family members and I. We live in two completely different realities. I will never change their minds and they won't change mine.

[appalachiablue]

21. You did great; I woudn't have lasted. They sound 'well prepared' to me,

where do they get their news & info.?

Did you/they see the recent GOP articles about 'making your Democratic relatives suffer at Xmas,' or smthg. to that effect.

[smirkymonkey]

36. I'm pretty sure they have been boning up on that course.

As for me, I have been trying to master the talking points I have learned here, but it was fruitless. They will not accept facts, even when I have sourced them. They refused to consider government sources legitimate. That was when I put a stop to it. I just realized it was pointless to argue. I did not want to argue anymore and I saw that it would only get ugly and for what?

Nothing would be accomplished. Nobody's mind would be changed and a family would be ripped apart. It wasn't worth it and I had to stop it. I wanted harmony more than I wanted to win.

[appalachiablue]

46. Yes, I understand, there's only so much you can do. A blood letting

isn't worth it. ~

You've likely heard about the film, 'The Brainwashing of My Dad' (2015) by Jen Secko about her once 'Kennedy Dem.' dad who went looney from following Rush & Fox and how she worked with him to help.

I saw this excellent video of clips online (More in comment #2 in the link below).

It's select excerpts from the film with journalism & political experts who describe the how & what of RW propaganda media. (*It also covers 'truth & balance,' the 'lack of FACTS' on the right) and even includes David Brock, notorious GOP operative, then Dem. strategist). There's also standard trailers of the film with more about Jen and her father's story on YouTube.

Have a great Holiday Season!

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1016244632

[smirkymonkey]

72. I am afraid that this is what has happened to these certain members of my family.

It really makes me angry. My father and my sister are two of the kindest people in the world. There was never any hatred in them. Fox News has changed them and I am disgusted. I know that what that network has changed them into is not who they really are.

I saw this film and it was very powerful. I hope that there can be a way back for all our family members. Thanks appalaciablue.

Happy New Year to you and yours!

[appalachiablue]

95. You too, Happy New Year!

[Collimator]

24. "I hate the way they think, but it is not as black and white as the way everyone here thinks"

Yours are very true words to describe a difficult situation. My heart goes out to you.

I was talking to a lovely, liberal-minded older woman who is a client of my sister-in-law. I mentioned that I didn't want to spend Christmas with my family because they are Trump supporters.

She was aghast. "How can they be?! He's horrible!", she exclaimed. Later in the conversation, she spoke about the kind and "above-the-call-of-duty" things that my SIL does for her. I agreed that my sister-in-law and my brother are good people. I have my own theories about the deep-seated issues that led them into the right wing way of thinking, but there is nothing that I can do.

I learned growing up that it is painful to love troubled people. Now, I am dealing with the discomfort of loving basically good people who believe and sometimes say some stupid, awful things.

[smirkymonkey]

60. Thank you Collimator.

It is difficult and not as simple as just dismissing people who are Trump supporters. Easier said than done. I wish it was, but I am finding it very complicated.

[Hassler]

25. Never debate people making bad-faith arguments is one of my rules.

[smirkymonkey]

73. That's why I cut it off.

It was pointless. And it could only make things worse.

[mtngirl47]

26. I also had a holiday with my Trump lover family!

My parents are elderly...mid 80's...originally Kennedy Democrats, but now Fox brainwashed. I have been spending two weeks with them in December for the past 5 years. I own a tourist business and can't travel/visit from April to November, so I go in December to help my Mom decorate and shop and bake. My sister and her husband and one of my brothers live near my folks and they're all Trumpies. (strange thing for my gay brother...but he justifies it in his brain somehow.)

I remember growing up with spirited, real debates at the dinner table where we all learned from each other...but now it devolves so quickly into those stupid right-wing nut talking points with no facts and they say horrible hateful things.

So....after the election of 2016 I had to make the decision to have a family or walk away. I decided to keep my family. We have all agreed not to talk about Trump or politics in ANY way. My Dad watches CBS News while I'm visiting--although I did come home early a couple of times to find him snoozing in front of Fox!

The day of the impeachment debate and vote, I announced a shopping trip and dinner with a cousin (good Democrat!). The next day I went shopping again so they could rage and watch Fox for their new talking points.

It was a pleasant visit with good food...and I had DU to read each day to keep me informed!

Trump has changed our country and taken away so much that we all hold dear....I won't give up my family for that deplorable man.

[appalachiablue]

37. Your relatives sound like the topic of the film, 'The Brainwashing

of My Dad' which came out in 2015. See comment #2 in this link.

The video has excellent clips by experts describing what went into making RW hate media.

There's also an official trailer for the film, w more about director Jen Senko & the story of her former 'Kennedy Dem.' dad.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1016244632

[smirkymonkey]

67. Good for you mtngirl47.

It's very easy to say that you will just dismiss anyone who supports Trump, but when it comes to family, it is a very difficult thing to do. Especially aging parents. It makes me sick that Trump has injected this poison into our relationships that we all hold dear. I feel like he has brainwashed our loved ones and has turned them into people that are alien to us. I sometimes feel like I don't know these people when I hear them talk and parrot his words.

It is almost like a mass hysteria. I wish more than anything that this spell could somehow be broken. That someone or something could break through this illusion and wake people up. I honestly believe that these people are under a spell and that one jarring incident could awaken them. At least I hope so.

Anyway, I understand where you are coming from and I won't let him take my family from me either.

[Demsrule86]

70. I agree. He is so not worth it.

[BigmanPigman]

32. I found out on Christmas that my niece has

a boyfriend. She is visiting from DC where she works. I asked one question and it was not about his race, religion, sexual orientation, employment, education, etc. I asked if he was a Dem and the answer was NO! I told my sister that she told me years ago that no one in our family dates or marries certain people and the first thing on the list was NO GOP! Now I am one of those people that I have heard and read about...like you I may not be able to discuss politics with my family of 3 generations of very solid Dems (was 4 until my 103 grandmom died 4 years ago) for the first time in my life. My dad died suddenly and unexpectedly in March. I am glad he won't have to witness this or experience a holiday dinner like yours.

[smirkymonkey]

68. The only way it can work is if people promise to refrain from discussing politics.

It can be done. We have managed it for years, but every now and then someone has to go and blow it and that person is always - without fail - a republican. A drunk republican. They can never let things be peaceful. They cannot stand it when people are happy and cheerful and always have to fuck things up.

I am very sorry to hear about your dad. You must be heartbroken, but as you say, he will never have to witness what we are going through now in this country.

Happy New Year Bigman!

[Kurt V.]

33. it is complicated. my partner and i spent 6 hours with my trump sister and trump husband.

we had a blast.

[JohnnyRingo]

34. I quit trying to change minds.

Now I ask them to sell it to me. I tell them I want to one of the starry eyed people who have been walking around on cloud nine the past three years, carefully implying it's a cult.

I get two things right off the top of their heads, because they really don't have much to work with.

1: The economy is booming.
1: Black unemployment is at an all time low.

Though I promised not to try to change their minds, I come back with "The stock market broke records every year Obama was in office, and if only he did more for black people you would have loved him too?". That's when they call me an asshole, but it wraps up pretty quickly.

[LuckyLib]

45. I would be so tempted to say, "since when did you become concerned about

Black unemployment?”

[Aussie105]

35. A great argument stopper:

Just say ' I respect your opinion but do not necessarily agree with it. Do the same for me.'

At every 'Yeah but . . . ', just repeat that.

[GReedDiamond]

44. The only problem with that is: what if...

...their "opinion" is not worthy of respect?

I can't think of one pro-trump talking point which is actually true, so why show respect for the endless lies?

And I'd be lying if I said "I respect your opinion" to a Trumphumper.

How about, if the conversation gets too outta control, just walk away from the idiot cult member.

[smirkymonkey]

77. Good idea.

Even though I don't, it is a good way to shut them up.

[guillaumeb]

41. Champagne and pomegranate liqueur?

The wine police should have arrested her for that combination.

[smirkymonkey]

74. Apparently it's a thing this season.

Not my thing, but people are always looking for a new trend.

[LakeArenal]

43. Freak of families here.

My only sibling cool.
My husband’s family is huge. 30 people or more.
In 45 years, not one argument. Not one remark behind anybody’s back. Not one “watch what you say”.
Several we have no idea of their political leanings.
We never dread the holidays.

Freaky, huh?

[paleotn]

49. You are extremely lucky.

Can part of my family borrow part of yours?

[LakeArenal]

59. Nah. We will hope they keep us, let alone switch!!

[smirkymonkey]

75. You are not a freak, you are just very lucky!

That sounds so peaceful and wonderful. I can't imagine what it would be like not to dread the holiday political angst. I am happy for you that your holidays are so harmonious. Honestly, I am. That is such a rarity. Consider yourself very fortunate. Wishing you and yours a very Happy New Year!

[nini]

47. You should give them quotes from hitler and trump

And ask them to identify who said it.

Make them face up to their nazi hero.

[paleotn]

48. It is complicated and everyone's situation is different...

For me and some in my family, IQ45 was the 500 lb weight that broke the camel's back, but of course the camel had been under immense strain for years. Religion and all sorts of other shit. Maybe a microcosm of our ongoing culture war. Hate it, but this pResidency brought on what was probably inevitable anyway. We share genetics, but beyond that, we're simply incompatible. Our world views before IQ45 were already worlds apart.

[Turbineguy]

52. Every family and friendship that breaks up

is a victory for trump.

[dustyscamp]

56. truth

[smirkymonkey]

76. I will not give him that satisfaction.

Fuck him!

[Pluvious]

98. And Putin (n/t)

[UniteFightBack]

54. Oh HELL NO I'm not alienating the dumpers in my life because they are going to hear my mouth

bitching about this prick and the Russiapublicans they root for for the rest of their lives.

[Stargleamer]

55. Perhaps it is futile

and I thought at first that I would have kept arguing with them, but then I realized that there's a good chance that the BS you are dealing with ultimately can trace back to the BS statistics that the Hoover Institution, Cato Institute, Heritage Foundation, etc. put out. Dealing with stuff and being confronted with, in effect, Gish Gallop responses coming from your numerous conservative relatives makes me think there is little you can do. It really seems futile. But I think maybe you can tell them that at least as far as the economy goes, all the Asshole has done is increase Government spending

Link to tweet

and rode on the trends established by the Obama administration. The tax cuts that primarily benefit the extremely wealthy and the deregulation have never been shown to result in much economic stimulus. After saying that I think you can call it a day, and tell them that further arguing is truly futile.

[smirkymonkey]

79. I have archives filled with factual ammunition. Do you think they will ever accept it?

No. They will find a way to dismiss the information or the source, no matter how reputable. And these are not stupid, uneducated people. They are all post-graduate, UMC people. It is bizarre. It is a values thing that they have picked up from Fox.

We were having a discussion at the dinner table about how they raise their children, and their children are all very good kids in every way, but it amazed me how "authoritarian" their views had become, and I was arguing against them, and I was also steamrolled on that discussion as well. I just ended up excusing myself and going to bed. It was too depressing.

[Lexee]

57. Family, tied up in love. I can not believe my father supports this man, but bet he does.

Not that I know for sure, because I refuse to hear one way or another. I walked away from us having a civil political conversation about 2012. He voted Obama, for the first time in his life going Democrat and was disappointed and that was it. Stick a fork in it, he was done.

[smirkymonkey]

80. Sorry to hear that Lexee.

Trump has caused so many of us so much pain and disappointment. I will not stop loving my family because of him. I know they are suffering under a delusion. A mass psychosis.

[Lexee]

89. I agree.

What is amazing is Trump is everything my father taught me not to be. Blows my mind.

[Pepsidog]

58. This is what worries me, lots of people out there think like them. The

[Dream Girl]

65. I'm glad I'm black. Never happens to me. I don't know a should who voted for him, so there's that

There was an SNL skit a few weeks ago showing the Trump discord between two white families, but the black family...not so much. It was pretty funny. I actually don’t know any white people who voted for him or don’t hate him. Of course I live in San Francisco. I’ve seen maybe four Trump bumpers stickers in all these years. I guess I do live in a bubble, but I kinda like it...

[smirkymonkey]

82. Actually, that was a hilarious skit. Personally, I don't know any white friends who voted for him,

it's only certain family members (not all) and their friends who have voted for him. All my friends are Democrats. I honestly do not think I could be friends with a republican.

I live in Boston, so it's pretty easy to find like minded people here. I have also lived in San Fran and NYC so I feel fortunate to have always lived in liberal strongholds where we are the majority. I could not imagine living in a majority republican area. I think it would be extremely depressing. I honestly cannot stand them.

[Demsrule86]

69. I have a brother who is a libertarian...and a cousin who is a Trumper...other than that all Democrat

I don't discuss politics or religion at family parties. Even Democrats often disagree about policy.

[KT2000]

71. it's about graciousness

when it comes the friends and family.
For the second time in my life I visited my cousin for a pre-Christmas dinner. We made it quite a while without politics but then it happened. My cousin, who was the hostess, and her husband started with the RW memes. I didn't say a thing until when I did - it was a gang up.

That was really bad manners, mean, and the last time I will visit her.

[smirkymonkey]

83. Yes, exactly. They can not be civil.

They gang up and that is their strategy. No matter how wrong they are, they believe that if they pile on they will win. That was why I refused to engage. It was exactly what they were planning to do to me no matter how many facts I had or how right I was. They had the bodies.

[smirkymonkey]

87. I am sorry that happened to you. And you are right. It is nothing more than bad manners.

Politics should never come up at a holiday dinner, especially when it is known that there are people at the table who espouse opposing views. It is always bad form. I hope you plan to spend the New Year in a much more peaceful way! Best to you KT2000 and Happy New Year!

[KT2000]

90. Thanks - and

Happy New year to you too!

[lunatica]

78. Never underestimate the importance

of everyone knowing exactly where they stand. It beats always being afraid of what your family believes. Just remember to keep your word that the issue will never be discussed again.

Family members don’t have to agree to still be family.

[smirkymonkey]

84. Thanks lunatica.

I think that after I refused to attend a family T-giving dinner in 2016 after Trump won, they kind of know I am serious about this shit. Once I started to speak up and it was clear I was angry, they backed down pretty quickly. They knew that I was not going to put up with it and would pull away again. It worked. Things got back to normal almost immediately.

I am glad that they can also see that politics are not worth losing the love of a family member.

[ooky]

81. I feel blessed to have no Trumpers in my immediate family.

My sister married a "conservative" who came to my house shooting off his mouth a few years back and I told her to never bring that asshat back again. But they ended up divorcing and fortunately he didn't infect my sister, who voted for Hillary. And my ex wife has an evangelical sister who is a Trumper but we never talk, she blames me for turning my ex into a liberal. Which I did, ha ha.

[smirkymonkey]

85. Good for you, ooky!

Happy New Year!

[ooky]

88. You too smirky.

Happy new year! 🎊🎉🍾

[CrispyQ]

91. The right wingers I know can't resist bringing up politics, even when we agree not to.

They want to be confrontational. I think it's linked to their motivation to "piss off the libs." For some reason pissing off the libs is a big part of their agenda. I suspect because Rush tells them so.

[smirkymonkey]

92. It's like they have no positive agenda. Pissing off the libs seems to be their primary motivation.

I forgot to mention, I now remember what started the whole thing. They handed me a book entitled "Reasons to vote for a Democrat" or something like that. When I opened it up, it was just a bunch of blank pages. Then they had the nerve to tell me that it was number #1 on the NYT Best-seller list.

[lark]

93. I'd be in a major pickle if my parents were still alive.

Dad as a major conservative evangelical christian, loved Rush & Falwell. He would have supported drumpf, no doubt about it. I, of course, would 100% disapprove and be shocked! They only watched Faux Snooze and read the local conservative newspaper so they didn't get any diversity of opinion - other than me and sometimes my sister. Mom, well, that's where there would be trouble. She was the most prim and proper person I've ever met, but she was also very caring. I just can't imagine her supporting someone so crass and totally horrible in every single way, the total opposite of her. We'd be fighting a lot over this, I'm pretty sure. Couldn't fight with dad, we're too much alike, too intense and it never ended well. When I moved back to town, we agreed that we would not discuss politics or religion and we stuck to that. It's the only way we had any type of relationship at all. Mom and I fought because we cared and we could do this and not hate each other. When it would start to get intense, one of us would say, politics just sucks. That was our code word and we always respected it. When the other one said it, it was time to laugh and hug and move on to more agreeable topics.

Wishing everyone a year of positive changes in 2020!

[smirkymonkey]

101. Good policy!

It is wise of you and your mom to put your relationship above your differences. I find that if certain topics aren't brought up, we have no problems getting along as long as everyone agrees to the pact. Happy New Year!

[packman]

94. I'm sure it through your mind, but not theirs

"And another thing, he's divided the country and families."

[smirkymonkey]

103. They thought this of Obama, but not of Trump.

I still don't see the reasoning. I will never get what people see in Trump. He is the most vile, vulgar, odious person in the world to me.

[40RatRod]

96. I left the room when ...

...people (relatives) I respect and love began talking about how great Trump is. Their comments about what he has accomplished were so easy to rebut but I have found that makes no difference to Trumpers so I left and spent time with my dogs. They never disappoint me.

[Pluvious]

99. I'm with you friend

I've tried all the options of handling the rabid right wingers, and finally concluded there is no upside to any engagement.

You might as well try to argue with someone to stop liking chocolate.

They seem to derive a perverse pleasure out of getting my goat. So I'll deny them that entertainment.

[smirkymonkey]

104. My one consolation was their dog.

They have this very sweet, loving Swiss Mountain dog who is the love of my life. She helped to calm me down and keep me sane. My love for her kept me upbeat and loving, and I was able to get over my resentment toward the family because of her. Dogs are just amazing gifts.

[rickford66]

97. My family is normal. I'm sorry for you.

[DFW]

102. People like that don't come to our house

The only relative I have that is probably a Trumpanzee is one who lives in the Memphis area. I haven't seen him in 25 years, and if his third marriage was anything like the first two, it has also been history for over 20 years. I heard via, via that he liked Bush and Cheney, so if he has used any kind of internet search, and seen who I hang with, it's clear he won't be looking me up again during this lifetime.

As for our friends in Europe, well, they are European. As an old friend of mine in the comics biz used to say, 'nuff said.

[smirkymonkey]

105. It must be nice to live in Europe DFW!

Where even your nutcases are still probably relatively sane compared to our Trumpers. I dream of living in a society where these people are few and far between. I hope you and your family had a wonderful holiday! Was this your grandchild's first Christmas?

[DFW]

113. Europe has its ups and downs

We did have a great time together, though you read about our daughter's ordeal in Africa (or rather, her husband's).

This was the baby's second Christmas, as she is 18 months old.

There are nut cases of course, in Europe. But national psychosis is not the norm. The Germans in particular are allergic to anything resembling Nazis, and even their far right screams in fury at being compared to the Nazis (it helps that it's still illegal there), whereas in the USA, our radical right proudly displays the Swastika.

In the eighties, a former SS officer wanted to form a neo-Nazi party in Germany. As Nazis were forbidden, he had to look around for another name. He found one with rhetoric he liked and chose that name. He called his party "Die Republikaner." When I pointed this out to American Republicans, they always got indignantly angry and said, "Are you calling us Nazis?" I replied, "Not at all. But don't you find it the least bit unfortunate that neo-Nazis in Germany found you Republicans to be such an inspiration that they adopted your name?" That usually left them sputtering without a coherent response. Indeed, what response could they give?

[louis-t]

107. I'm so lucky, the only family I spend time with at Christmas

are all liberal. With the exception of my 87 year old mother (who said she "just couldn't vote for Hillary after all the things I heard about her" and now realizes her mistake) none voted for the orange asshole.

[smirkymonkey]

109. You are lucky. It's hard walking on eggshells during the holidays.

I don't ever remember a time before Trump when things were this hostile.

[onlyadream]

108. My family is similar

And the policy is NO POLITICS. But every time we get together someone starts, and I end up repeating, “we are not talking politics” over and over until they shut up. It’s pointless to have a discussion since everyone is convinced they’re right, and are quite passionate about it. No one will change their minds. It’s so sad that we devolved to this.

[smirkymonkey]

110. Sorry to hear that onlyadream, I relate completely. We have the same policy, but once

people start drinking, someone always breaks the rule - usually one of the Trumpers - and if my liberal brother is around he will keep debating because he loves to egg them on. I for one, do not want to engage because I can't deal with the insanity so I shut them down. It gets too heated and hostile and starts getting personal.

As you say, nobody is going to change anyone else's mind so it's all really quite pointless.

[olegramps]

111. As for loving asshole relatives, God gave me my relatives, but I will choose my friends.

I said goodbye to some relatives years ago and I never missed them. Guess what? Last year two contacted me and wanted to get together again. Maybe some will not like my answer but I don't forgive and forget without a fully apology. It is just that they that are having second thoughts as the grave gets closer; I still hold them in nothing but contempt. In fact I hold them in greater contempt in attempting to appeal to me for sympathy for their sorry lot in life. They dug their grave, sleep in it.

I would never forgive Trump for the damage that he has done to our nation. I don't give a damn if he crawled on his hands and knees, somethings are just not forgivable and cannot be fixed with a shallow apology. I really don't give a damn about people who crush others and then think that what they have done can be rectified with some tearfully phony contrition.

[Bonx]

112. My favorite part is when we don't even disagree on something and I'm getting hammered just because

they assume we do and I can't get a word in edgewise.

[mvd]

114. I am glad you made the best of it

It is hard. It’s crazy thinking to me to be a Trump supporter. It makes it hard not to think less of the person. But I have a real estate agent who has become a friend - and she is a conservative leaning independent who would defend Trump on stuff, even if she isn’t a Trump fanatic. We generally avoid politics and it has worked so far.

I do not have problems with family.

[Totally Tunsie]

115. Oh my, smirky. Sounds like a tough day.

Glad to hear you were able to stand your ground, tho, and make your point.

At least you know you always have "family" here at DU, where you can voice your thoughts and feel welcomed.

[smirkymonkey]

116. Thanks Tunsie!

Wishing you a very Happy New Year! Hopefully this will be the year that we eject Trump and trash from the White House!

[Totally Tunsie]

118. Please let it be so!

Happy New Year to you also!

[JGug1]

117. Loving Trumpistas

I don't envy you. My parents are both dead but they were both liberals. I have no sibs of 8 who are not liberal, though my older sister was married to a wingnut who kind of had her brain washed. He died of a heart attack and she has since recanted. Someone once said that it is proper to say good of the dead. OK, "good." The guy was a jerk. He liked to make sly little comments about my worth. (I am not a 1 percenter or a 2 percenter or even wealthy by modern standards. He was a jerk and I don't miss him.
I have dropped friends who remain Trumpistas. It would really hurt to have a mother who liked Trump. So, I empathize with you.

[smirkymonkey]

120. Thank you JGug1.

It's a little harder when they are your family and you know that they are good people deep inside. I blame Fox News and right wing media for brainwashing them. I know that they should have never fallen for it, but it played on their fears and insecurities. My older brother and I never would have bought it and never have, which is why we are both still liberals.

I think it would be interesting to see a psychological study of those who are so easily taken in by right-wing media. They seem to be filled with fear and have very weak boundaries.

[coti]

119. It sounds like you don't want to discuss it with them anymore, but if you do...

Tell them they're part of a cult, and keep returning to that. They've been brainwashed into putting the ego of a single man above the needs of our entire nation.