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Tue Dec 31, 2019, 12:31 PM

The Beat Goes On

“More, Bolton had a series of conversations with both Mike Pompeo and Mark Esper about the folly of the White House's Ukraine operation. Apparently, all three were aware of the dangers of such an operation, and attempted to convince Trump it would backfire on him. Pompeo waivered at important times, due to his lack of backbone. Clearly, the military aide to Ukraine was not released until two days after the administration learned the whistle-blower's concerns were going to be made public. “
H2O Man; Texas Radio & the Big Beat; Democratic Underground; November 9, 2019

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212669038


Back in 2004-05, members of the Democratic Underground recognized that a fair amount of the information posted within the infamous “Plame Threads” would be reported in the mainstream media in the days and weeks to come. Those discussions, in my humble opinion, made DU the most valuable internet forum, and attracted numerous new members. It also resulted in members of the mainstream media reading those threads.

I was glad to see the New York Times report on the meeting that Bolton, Pompeo, and Esper had with Trump, telling the president that he needed to release the funds for the Ukraine. In some later comments on other OP/threads, I had stated that the three administration officials had sought to meet together with Trump, but admitted that I was unsure if they had been able to, or had individual meetings with the president. While I knew it had been a group effort, I was unable to confirm that the single meeting the Times documented had taken place.

Nevertheless, I think that it still shows that DU can provide news” before the mainstream media does. And that remains one of the many reasons DU remains my favorite internet forum.

Happy New Year!
H2O Man

45 replies, 3372 views

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 45 replies Author Time Post
Reply The Beat Goes On (Original post)
H2O Man Dec 2019 OP
spanone Dec 2019 #1
H2O Man Dec 2019 #2
panader0 Dec 2019 #3
H2O Man Dec 2019 #9
pandr32 Dec 2019 #4
H2O Man Dec 2019 #10
Me. Dec 2019 #5
coeur_de_lion Dec 2019 #6
H2O Man Dec 2019 #12
coeur_de_lion Dec 2019 #21
H2O Man Dec 2019 #23
Me. Dec 2019 #20
H2O Man Dec 2019 #11
malaise Dec 2019 #7
H2O Man Dec 2019 #13
malaise Dec 2019 #19
H2O Man Dec 2019 #25
malaise Dec 2019 #31
The Blue Flower Dec 2019 #8
H2O Man Dec 2019 #14
Anon-C Dec 2019 #15
H2O Man Dec 2019 #16
MagickMuffin Dec 2019 #17
H2O Man Dec 2019 #18
judesedit Dec 2019 #22
H2O Man Dec 2019 #27
bdamomma Dec 2019 #24
H2O Man Dec 2019 #28
Martin Eden Dec 2019 #26
bdamomma Dec 2019 #29
H2O Man Dec 2019 #30
Karadeniz Dec 2019 #32
H2O Man Dec 2019 #35
Uncle Joe Dec 2019 #33
H2O Man Dec 2019 #36
Uncle Joe Dec 2019 #38
AllaN01Bear Dec 2019 #34
H2O Man Dec 2019 #37
AllaN01Bear Dec 2019 #40
eleny Dec 2019 #39
H2O Man Dec 2019 #42
pwb Dec 2019 #41
H2O Man Dec 2019 #43
Hekate Dec 2019 #44
H2O Man Dec 2019 #45

Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 12:34 PM

1. K&R ...

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Response to spanone (Reply #1)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 12:35 PM

2. Thank you!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 12:39 PM

3. Damn. I thought this was going to be an OP about Sonny and Cher.

But I'm reccing it anyway.
Have a great New Year H2O Man!

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Response to panader0 (Reply #3)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 01:12 PM

9. I did, too!

I'd say one needs to sniff between the lines, but ....



New Year's Eve is a lot tamer these days!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 12:40 PM

4. Happy New Year, H20 Man!

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Response to pandr32 (Reply #4)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 01:13 PM

10. Happy New Year, pandr32!

I'm looking forward to it!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 12:41 PM

5. I Miss Those Threads

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Response to Me. (Reply #5)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 12:44 PM

6. We certainly thought we were the s**t

Maybe we were!

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Response to coeur_de_lion (Reply #6)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 01:17 PM

12. We were young.

Politics were a battlefield. And we were good at that.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #12)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 02:14 PM

21. Hahahahaha

Now we're old and moldy and politics is more like a clusterf***.

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Response to coeur_de_lion (Reply #21)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 02:23 PM

23. True fact.

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Response to coeur_de_lion (Reply #6)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 02:13 PM

20. Well I'll Yell You What

We were ahead of the curve on that story. I remember emailing Joe Conason and he had no idea and wanted to know all we did. I connected him to the thread, not that he revealed himself. But his early writing reflected he had read it.

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Response to Me. (Reply #5)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 01:14 PM

11. Seriously!

I really enjoyed the large group conversations. There were a lot of good contributors. I learned a lot.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 12:50 PM

7. You're always on the ball

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Response to malaise (Reply #7)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 01:18 PM

13. Between us,

we've been pretty darned good on things ranging from Roger Stone tothe Ukraine scandal in recent times.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #13)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 02:10 PM

19. I didn't always get it right

but we haven't been too bad

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Response to malaise (Reply #19)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 02:24 PM

25. Thus far

in life, I haven't heard of anyone getting every single thing right.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #25)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 02:48 PM

31. True but way too many humans

ve a problem accepting that we all make mistakes.
I'll never forget how the media flew into a tizzy when Obama stated that Dems received a shellacking in the 2010 midterms. Don the Con lost in 2018 and claimed that he won. It's a serious problem when people never accept that we all make errors.

I remember tutorials with my students when I'd congratulate a student for raising a point I hadn't thought about - it was about succession planning. Some of them are as good as others told us we were and some are even better.

Humans can be so mean because of fragile egos or fear of being replaced by others.

I learn from DUers like you all the time.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 12:59 PM

8. So, so true

Thanks, H20 Man, as always. Wishing you an excellent year.

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Response to The Blue Flower (Reply #8)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 01:21 PM

14. Thanks, The Blue Flower!

And Happy New Year to You & Yours!

My New Year's resolution is to not argue with Democrats in the primary season. And my New Year's revolution is to kick the stuffing out of Trump and the republican party.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 01:25 PM

15. Bonne Annee!

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Response to Anon-C (Reply #15)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 01:30 PM

16. Thank you!

I wish I had read this before e-mailing the former exchange student in France!

I'm thinking 2020 will be a great year for the Democratic Party. My friend in France often asks me what has happened in the US to allow Trump to be in the White House?

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 01:46 PM

17. And the beat goes on, and the beat goes on


We are in the midst of Greater Things: The Roaring Twenties are back baby!!!

2020 hindsight (?) What will it bring us?



Happy

New

Year

to

you

and

yours!

H2O Man

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Response to MagickMuffin (Reply #17)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 02:02 PM

18. Thank you, MagickMuffin!

I really like that -- the Roaring Twenties! Very good!

While the republicans will fight -- and dirty fighters they are -- I've got a feeling that a united Democratic Party will crush them in 2020.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 02:18 PM

22. I absolutely agree. Many times I've had news a couple of days before

even sirius xm progressive radio or cable tv, which I NEVER watch anymore. Unfortunately, I can't believe what I hear there knowing it is likely not the whole story. I have been coming to this site since prior to the Bush debacle and I check in, literally, every chance I get, although I rarely sign on. At times I check in approx fifty times a day when asshole is making decisions that will affect the majority of Americans and the rest of the world, like now. Drumpf is a born loser. It's hard to believe so many don't have the guts to stand up to him. If I wasn't seeing it with my own eyes I would not have thought in a million years that this scenario could possibly play out in America in 2020. I truly believed we were past destroying everything and everybody who did not fit the white male mold. Money is king. Citizens United sealed our fate. Rethuglicans have made me ashamed to be white. Please be sure to vote for the Democratic candidate. We have to get these crooks outta there at every level. Thanks for letting me rant. Hope the new year brings sensibility and all kinds of blessings. We certainly need all the help we can get. Love you, Democratic Underground! Thanks for being here for us. 👍

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Response to judesedit (Reply #22)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 02:31 PM

27. Good points!

Thank you for this!

I try to keep in mind something that Erich Fromm pointed out in his classic book, The Sane Society. He spoke about in a highly dysfunctional -- or, insane -- society, those who were sane could find it a struggle to maintain balance. And so I view DU as an island of sane people that generally maintain a sense of stability.

I also remember when I was a kid, hearing Elders say "this isn't the country I grew up in." I used to wonder what they meant. Now, of course, I know.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 02:24 PM

24. Your input here is

very valuable I always learn something reading your posts. Well we have another year coming up and more reading to do.

Have a good New Year, and never give up, we are all in this together.

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Response to bdamomma (Reply #24)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 02:36 PM

28. Thank you, bdamomma!

I appreciate that. I like to think of myself as part of a great team here. Every so often, I jump off from the bench and enter the contest. That's a good role for an old man!

Also, I think our team is just warming up for 2020. As long as we keep our eyes on the prize, it will be a great year for the Democratic Party.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 02:30 PM

26. I came to DU in 2002 during the campaign of lies for war in Iraq

DU was a source of information the mainstream media was ignoring by ignorance or intent.

Nobody else I talked to ever heard of PNAC and their white paper with the predetermined agenda to invade Iraq, or that it became the blueprint for GW's National Security Strategy with a host of the same neocons holding key positions in his administration.

If the general public knew what we knew, things could have turned out very different.

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Response to Martin Eden (Reply #26)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 02:41 PM

29. the information is out there

if people educate themselves to read more, and keep abreast of what's going on the country.

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Response to Martin Eden (Reply #26)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 02:46 PM

30. I had read DU

before joining in 2003. One of my nephews recommended I join to share some insights on the Plame Scandal on the day that Patrick Fitzgerald started on the case. Will Pitt had published an outstanding essay on the scandal that day, too.

I was pleased to find so many intelligent, informed people here. Very impressed. An associate told me that it would take about a month to be accepted in the community here, but it really only took about two weeks. Within six months, I was being contacted by a few people connected to the mainstream media. I've always prefered to post things on DU, though.

Things go in cycles. The mainstream media was really failing the public in the Bush-Cheney era. Of course, Cheney in particular was putting great pressure on those who attempted to tell the truth. It was about as bad as during the Iran-Contra era. I think that the media as a whole is doing a solid job these days. It's the best it's been since the Watergate era.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 03:21 PM

32. Thanks for all the great information you provide...SO appreciated! Happy 2020!❤

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Response to Karadeniz (Reply #32)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 03:35 PM

35. Thank you!

I try to add something worthwhile every now and then. And I appreciate others for doing the same!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 03:25 PM

33. I'm wondering

whether Trump believed ahead of time that his actions in regards to Ukraine would indeed lead to his impeachment, perhaps counted on it?

Thanks for the thread H2O Man.

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Response to Uncle Joe (Reply #33)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 03:42 PM

36. Good question.

One of the common features of sociopaths is they do not put time in thinking about the consequences of their actions. They tend to function largely "in the moment." Thus, for example, the day after Mr. Mueller testified to Congress, Trump believed he was untouchable -- hence his belief it was a "perfect" time to call the president of Ukraine.

The effort the White House made immediately after the call to cover it up also strongly suggests that those involved were concerned with the consequences if the call was made public -- the opposite of the sociopath-in-chief. Thus, they rank as the merely anti-social types that historically surround a sociopath in politically powerful positions.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #36)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 03:48 PM

38. The way I see it

Trump knew two things, he could greatly influence his choice of opposition by attacking the son of one and McConnell's Senate will never ever convict him.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 03:31 PM

34. du has kept me insane since 2000. when we had obama i loved it

i dont listen to tv and or radio news or read newspapers . i get most of my news from lbn.

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Response to AllaN01Bear (Reply #34)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 03:48 PM

37. Very good!

I'd read DU from time to time since it started in 2001. Joined the conversations in 2003. My insanity dates back many decades previous to DU, but this place allows me to express it freely!

Happy New Year!

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #37)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 05:13 PM

40. one of the longtime veterans of this place , youse . love your posts .

respect.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 04:13 PM

39. I remember the intense research threads about the NSA spying and also the electronic voting machines

So many members here with so much knowledge and how & where to look for things, then piece them together.

Happy New Year!

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Response to eleny (Reply #39)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 07:36 PM

42. Yes, absolutely!

Those were great discussions. I loved those OP/threads. They helped me understand a lot of the ways that technology can be used and abused.

Happy New Year to You & Yours!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 05:17 PM

41. Happy New Year Man.

.

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Response to pwb (Reply #41)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 07:36 PM

43. Happy New Year!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 08:05 PM

44. Happy New Year, H2O Man & thanks for all your thoughtful input. A friend sent me here in Sept 2002

As others have noted, it was an anchor to sanity in so many ways. I was active in the anti-war movement in my medium sized town, but our local news stations never reported on us -- and for all I knew, we were the only people in the nation marching and protesting.

Then I joined DU. I learned about PNAC. Electronic voting. Depleted uranium. Protests everywhere.

Early on I read the WaPo article that claimed "a few hundred" protestors marched in DC -- then amended it to several thousand -- and kept amending it upward and upward. DUers were there with their cameras and posted photos here, and people like me from all across the country emailed the WaPo in outrage at their dismissive lie.

We mattered. We forced the media to notice us, in my town and all across the country.

DU was my first online experience, and remains the only. It's not my only news source, but often and often I read subject lines & posts here that show up in mainstream news in the days following.

Health and happiness to you, Waterman.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #44)

Tue Dec 31, 2019, 08:35 PM

45. I've been thinking

about some of the discussions on the role that "perception management" firms played in the Bush-Cheney march to war in Iraq. And how that impacted media coverage of the anti-war citizens at the time. This strikes me as extremely important today, after the demonstrations of Iraqi people who want the US to leave their country. It's led me to re-read the speech that Malcolm X gave five days before he was murdered, about the US in the Congo, and media manipulation.

I think most everyone on DU back then was opposed to the war. We knew it was based upon purposeful lies and manipulation. It was wrong to be there then, and it's wrong to be there now. I think we do best when the Democratic Party is opposed to such things.

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