World Net Daily speaks civil war

[nadinbrzezinski]

Americans no longer have a government run by people with the ethics and courage to protect the nation, and we must now do it for ourselves, hopefully peacefully and legally and with minimal collateral damage to ourselves and our families. But, as the framers experienced in 1776 with a king who did not and would not take into account their grievances, we again have no choice.

http://www.wnd.com/2012/08/scalia-flummoxed-about-natural-born-citizenship/

By the way the argument leading to this final passage is convoluted and strange, but internally consistent to the Patriot movement.

[villager]

1. Assuming an Obama second term, I wonder what this brewing 30-year treason of the right

...will lead to, or if it will culminate.

(Well, okay, it's longer than 30 years, stretching back to when they were killing sitting Presidents, U.S. Senators, etc., but still...)

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. They are now openly speaking of violence

I don't have to imagine it. The Patriot Movement will go there.

For the record this does not mean it will look like brigades marching on each other.... it simply will not. It will look like a more intense version of what we already are seeing.

[villager]

8. I wonder what the government will, finally, decide to do about it -- go after actual terrorists,

perhaps, instead of using "terrorist" to shut down environmental and anti-war groups?

Well, we can hope that one of the "two" parties gets it...

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. Locally the three groups on the radar are

the White Supremacist movement, they used to be real big here... the Patriot movement and the Pro Animal rights folks.

The two who really have them concerned are the first two. In reality we have had terrorism form the Pro Mother Earth crowd as well. But locally my cops have a taskforce that meets every quarter and compares notes.

The main problem they have is... they cannot go after them for saying "we are going to start a civil war." That's too vague. Now "we are going to go after (insert temple here) and kill a few..." That shows intent, and even that may have a judge hesitate. Now when they finally act, they can and will.

Until this picks up speed and you have a few more incidents one after the other, the environment legally will change. States have a knack for self protection that is all but nice at times.

[nebenaube]

3. bah...

a few minutes of entertainment...

[bakpakr]

4. When,

they are staring down the barrel of a Bradley or an Abrams they will change their tune real quick.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Actually I dare to disagree

yup the "militia" phase will last two weeks... maybe, but after that, look at places like Londonberry, low intensity but lasts for years.

And yes, that is where they will move to... the ones that learn the lesson that is, that you cannot take on a Bradley with an AR-15

[nmbluesky]

5. World net is bored and dull.

They are stupid..

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Alas I never discount them that way

But that is just me. I realize we are at one of those moments... and trust me, unlike many of these idiots, I know what it means to go where they want to go.

[zappaman]

6. Who gives a shit what a far right, ultra-crazy website says?

You seem to post about this quite a bit.
It seems like you kind of are hoping for a civil war just so you can say "told you so".
Stop it already.
There will NOT be a civil war.

[loli phabay]

14. I am not sure why the poster keeps saying stuff like this and then the inevitable i know civil war

stuff, i hope they are not hoping for it as it would be nasty and a lot of people would die. The comparisons to Ulster are off as well as the nutjobs here dont have a swamp to swim in and without it its hard to be an insurgent. Yes there are lots of whack jobs but they are not widespread enough to hide amongst and the majority of people would turn them in if they start a bombing campaign or other terror shit.

[zappaman]

24. Poster keeps telling us this and linking to RW garbage nut sites

because poster in never ever wrong....even when they are wrong.
And if they have to go to asshat sites to bolster their argument, then so be it.
The basic premise of "a civil war is coming" that this poster constantly promotes is bullshit...pure and simple.

[Brother Buzz]

11. There's no proof Joseph Farah contracted syphilis from a goat

SO STOP SAYING THAT

[bagimin]

58. oh how I miss

Bob!

[Zalatix]

12. It's called World Nut Daily for a reason

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. Yeah, but have you noticed how more and more of this talk

is getting all over the place? It was secession, now it is open warfare.

[loli phabay]

16. and its just talk or do you really believe that there is an army swimming unseen and unknown through

out the country just ready to spring up, seems thats the same thinking as the nutjobs themselves. you may have individuals and small groups but anything bigger would be so infiltrated that as soon as it erupted it would be slammed. hell even all the nutters i know couldnt work together as they all have disperate fantasies and beliefs they would all end up whacking each other.

[Zalatix]

18. I practice shooting at a place that these crazies frequent. There have been more of them

over the last 4 years.

Problem is, the heavily militarized Police Gangs of America

aka the world's second biggest and craziest gun nut culture EVER (2nd only to the military),

will take them down if they really try to rebel.

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. As I told you before and I will repeat it

You could have asked that question on circa September of 1859. In fact, a few did ask that same question...

Sometimes history is a guide, not just dusty material.

What will be different this time is that you will not have Pickets Brigade charging down the center of the line. Mostly, modern civil wars are not fought by uniformed brigades using Napoleonic tactics and formations.

Time to wake up and smell the coffee, there is this very real tension in the world. I am glad though that you are NOT in charge of national security, if you were you would tell the FBI to stand down and just let the Patriot Movement and the rest of them be themselves, and not keep a very watchful eye over them.

As to being infiltrated and all that, this is exactly, thankfully the FBI is not of your thinking, they think it is actually possible and take it really seriously... we call it cells. Read into it, and why CELLS are hard to infiltrate.

Perhaps having listened to people who actually do the job for real, and survivors of real actual civil wars, and having studied history means I do not discount this possibility out of hand. You are free to do so though.

[zappaman]

22. This post is dripping with condescension...as usual.

Linking to right wing nuttery websites just to prove your point and then, when that fact it pointed out, you stomp your feet and tell us smart you are compared to us idiots.
Thanks.

[Zalatix]

51. Care to address her actual points?

Your post sounds more like someone stomping their feet. It is completely devoid of facts or reasoning.

[zappaman]

59. Yes, her points are bullshit from a bullshit website.

There ya go!

[loli phabay]

23. no i would not tell the FBI to stand down as there are nutters but its not as you portray it

the criminal street gangs ie crips bloods disciples etc are better organised than all these nutjobs, actually having experience in this stuff allows me to understand what cells are but i would be interested to know how you do the job for real or is this some weird sand diego thing. I will say once again there are nutters but even the most organised of them would not be able to forment a civil war, yes mayby a bombing here or there or some shootings but they are a disparate group who all feel they are right and should be the leaders, and this is from experience.

[zappaman]

27. +1...however

What is your experience?
OP is not only a trained historian, but has also participated in "numerous shootouts".

[loli phabay]

35. i thought the only academic who was into shootouts was indiana jones

seems that its more common than i first thought.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. So to you pointing the talk is out there

is a problem.

Got it... let's hide our head in the sand... GOT IT!

And I will repeat this, you discount any of this... some of us won't. Have a good day.



I will not join you.

[Zalatix]

52. Certainly some valid points there.

The problem is some of these militias are ex-military. Fortunately you're right that they're not organized like the gangs are... but I am concerned that they may have better firepower and are more effectively dug-in.

[loli phabay]

53. yup a lot are military trained but just because someone is a good squad leader it dosent mean

they are a good tactician or company commander, i would be more worried about lone wolves than any concerted effort as i said each group has its own beliefs and aims and they are pretty much unable to form alliances. Even within the individual movements there are fractures all the time and leadership battles and then you have members who change their ways and give lots of intel up to the intelligence services. there is also the lack of community support for long term operations as i stated this isnt ulster or iraq where you have a large number of people willing to hide and support an insurgency, guarentee that if you put a one million dollar reward out for info the phones would burn down. hope this helped.

[Zalatix]

56. I truly hope this is forever an academic discussion.

Because the most violent and gun-crazy folks in the world aren't militias or gangs, they're the military and the police. And in the face of an insurgency they will kill not only the belligerents, but plenty of innocent "collateral" along with them. See: countless shootings of unarmed civilians, fatal beatings of the homeless, the MOVE incident in Pennsylvania, Ruby Ridge, RAMPART/the LAPD, My Lai, and practically dozens of places in the Middle East right now.

A noticeable right wing revolt will be just the excuse that the world's largest gun nut crazy culture (the ones who have authority over us) needs to ramp up the existing police state.

Like I said, I hope it stays academic.

[loli phabay]

57. problem is without the LEO and fed then you would face violence from those same gangs and militias

its kinda sad in a way but thats the way of the world, but i dont think you have to worry about a full blown civil war unless something major comes about as americans on the whole are not really into picking up their guns and going after their neighbours.

[Zoeisright]

15. You know what to do. If enough of us report this asshat, he might get a visit.

https://tips.fbi.gov/

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. Oh that goes without saying

[Junkdrawer]

17. The NRA's call to arms is even more disturbing.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1082131

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Yup. I just put them here

as they develop. We are having more of them, and the NRA is actually at the core of the patriot movement. Hey, look on the bright side... once something is done that is actually prosecutable.

[Upton]

25. This sounds real serious..

I mean, I'm real worried hordes of white supremacists are coming my way...

Hey whatever..I'm armed, plus I'm stocked up on milk. I'm ready for anything..

This kind of sensationalism, from WND no less..is just goofy..

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. It is not them, it is the pattern

But you knew that.

Here, more to your liking probably and a hell of a photo I might add

[Upton]

39. Ooooh..patterns..

I'm sure this civil war will arrive right around the time the lethal radiation from Japan does..credibility and all.

Hey, I see you like photos...I do too.

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. If you are going to read threads, at least read them correctly

which you did not.

I said higher levels of radiation, but once again, you knew that.

I forgot, you are one of my "fans" ANd one with trouble with reading comprehension.

Here, have one more of these birds, you really should adopt it.

By the way, you can GO RIGHT FUCKING NOW AND CONFIRM THAT WORLD NET DAILY DID POST THAT CALL. Some of us do not hide our heads in the sand... some of us, that be you, by the way.

[Upton]

49. I see..

so your definition of hiding one's head in the sand would be those of us not worried about an upcoming civil war accompanied by radiation from Japan..

Do yourself a favor. Give it a rest..

[loli phabay]

31. yup the neonazis would fight with the skins who would fight the militias who would fight the soverie

this fantasy that these groups would ever fall under the same leader and coalesce is nuts. If you ever talk to anyone from these groups they all believe they are the equivelent of Rommel or Zhukov and no one should be able to give them orders.

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. Alas you are still stuck in the ARMY paradigm

I am not... and the FBI knows they are not.

[loli phabay]

37. lol do you really have any idea what you are talking about or is this some sort of experiment of you

i feel like im talking to wikipedia or someone who just lifts phrases directly out of it. I guess you will still be seeing these patterns of yours in twenty years or so or harking back to the time in 600ad when big bob started a revolution in his village with a chicken. You do realise that regardless of the generals names the point is that every one of these guys ive ever met believe themselves to be the messiah and they will lead the forces to overcome the darkness, i thought i made that point pretty clearly.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. Actually yes, I know what I am talking about

Sorry if somebody who knows what they are talking about threatens you... I feel for you, I really do.

I forgot



You really should adopt that one. They tell me they are stubborn birds, but hey an egg will feed you and a few of your friends.

Look it up on Wikipedia, no less.

[loli phabay]

41. lol im sorry but you dont know what you are talking about, its obvious you have never talked with

militia members or sovereign citizens or racist skins, and if you did i doubt you would listen to them anyway, and unless you are being briefed by local law enforcement or the feds then really you dont know whats happening even in your local area regardless of what you might be claiming.

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. Really? And you know this how?

Oh yes, you read it on the internets.

There are days... that people on line try hard to put others who they feel threatened by down.

I love you too man. I really do. But I have no more time for the unserious people, you happen to be quite unserious. Goodbye.

[loli phabay]

44. no i actually talk to these guys and live amongst them so unlike yourself i daily interact with them

lol the only person on this thread trying to put people down is yourself, mayby if you listened to people instead of thinking you are the smartest person in the room you may learn something.

[Whovian]

26. I couldn't get past the third paragraph.

It was like waiting for a monkey to type Shakespeare.

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. That is why I posted the last paragraph

the rest of it, I have read it, even from a couple very serious lawyers, that actually make a pretty convincing argument (not this guy)... so I am familiar with the argument... it is one made by RW folks all the time.

By the way, one that you can be convincing but does not hold water.

A natural born citizen has to be born from two American parents. They stopped pushing the on US soil with McCain.

It is accepted that on US Soil, and or one US Parent is good enough.

[treestar]

30. I wonder what it is about the 2nd term that bothers them so much more

Maybe they figure without having to worry about re-election, that President Obama will really start being a Marxist. Or Communist. Or establish the Muslim religion. Or whatever insanity they claim to be worried about.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. Well the NRA told you what worries them

he will FINALLY bless his heart, go door to door and collect their guns.

Take that to whatever is their worry and insert that.

Deeply what worries them is that this uppity (insert epithet here) will actually prove that these uppity (epithet here) can do the job, and that more of them will now decide to run, and lord save us, WIN... White America is over.

And truth be told, just look at the demographic data, it is. What some of these people want is an American version of Apartheid.

But yes, they are worried to no end that they will NOT WIN... and that the American way of life (their mythic version) is over. And truth be told... it is.

[treestar]

45. Yes. The one term President being a "failure" the first black POTUS must be "a failure" and a one-

termer, and thus the greater hysteria at re-election.

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. Exactly, it is the end of their way of life

granted, it is mythical, and that version of the 1950s really kind of never existed. (there were a couple things that did, but they can't connect as to the why and for whom).

Their language is revealing a certain dangerous panic to it.

[tabasco]

33. All I have to say to them...

bring it, diarrhea breath.

[Initech]

43. They talk a lot of shit but they'd chicken out before the first shot is fired.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. There are a few, more than a few, that are willing to go there

why my local FBI has the Patriot movement (WND is part of it) as it's top three threats, locally.

The other two are the White Supremacists, they are all but lovely, and animal rights activists. The last one... well after they got a dealership and a housing development to go up in flames...

[DevonRex]

47. The ones who want this are too old and fat. Their kids are

chickenshit nobodies who didn't even sign up for Iraq or Afghanistan. The rest are too fucking stupid to do any damage except to themselves.

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. Except that many of those kids actually did join the army

to get the training needed, and I am being dead serious on that.

[DevonRex]

71. Personal story:

We were a military family from way back. Generations and generations back to the beginning of the country. My husband and I both served as did one son.

None of my 4 teabagger siblings served and none of their children did either, even though they were all gungho for every war, real and imagined. Anyone who doubted the reasoning behind a war was an automatic traitor to them. Yet they sat on their asses, every one.

Now I know some people did sign up. But I also know more did not. Most who did were unable to find work or just loved this country. Or had a proud heritage like I did, and had a special talent like I did to offer.

Another thing is that those jerks are cowards at heart. You'll find them hiding in their basements with their stockpile of unfired ammo, dressed like fools.

I've never been scared of much. They always have been scared of their shadows That's just the way it is.

[nadinbrzezinski]

73. Army reality, and this is what I am talking about, not teabaggers

tea baggers are actually on the fringes of either white supremacy or the patriot movement

Neo-Nazis, gangs and criminals in the US military

Investigative reporter Nir Rosen once aptly remarked on the tendency in mainstream Western journalism to downplay unfavourable trends occurring in the context of US military operations abroad: “The big scandals like Abu Ghraib, or the "Kill Team" in Afghanistan, eventually make their way into the media where they can be dismissed as bad apples and exceptions, and the general oppression of the occupations can be ignored”.

A similar sort of argument can perhaps be made with regard to incidents such as the August 7 Sikh temple massacre in Wisconsin, perpetrated by Wade Michael Page, a decorated former Army psychological operations specialist and a neo-Nazi. Although any Pentagon-sanctioned explanation of the event would undoubtedly rest on the bad apple assumption, it has occurred to media outlets such as the Christian Science Monitor to question whether the intersection of military training and racist extremism in Page's case is not in fact indicative of a larger pattern.

Noting that civil rights organisations like the Southern Poverty Law Centre "have warned that hate groups encourage their members to join [the military] for training and experience that they can later use to perpetrate crimes in the United States", CSM’s Anna Mulrine writes:

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/08/2012813114351987126.html

U.S. Army fights racists within its own ranks


FAYETTEVILLE, North Carolina (Reuters) - They call it "rahowa" - short for racial holy war - and they are preparing for it by joining the ranks of the world's fiercest fighting machine, the U.S. military.

White supremacists, neo-Nazis and skinhead groups encourage followers to enlist in the Army and Marine Corps to acquire the skills to overthrow what some call the ZOG - the Zionist Occupation Government. Get in, get trained and get out to brace for the coming race war.

If this scenario seems like fantasy or bluster, civil rights organizations take it as deadly serious, especially given recent events. Former U.S. Army soldier Wade Page opened fire with a 9mm handgun at a Sikh temple in Wisconsin on August 5, murdering six people and critically wounding three before killing himself during a shootout with police.

http://news.yahoo.com/u-army-battling-racists-within-own-ranks-050115179.html

I could find a lot more quotes, but this is who I am talking about... not only joined, but many of them want to get Ranger or SEAL training, for a reason... the upcoming war.

And the patriot movement is right side by side with the Neo Nazis and skin heads.

[pewpface]

54. hm.

perhaps we should create a sub-forum for WND threads like these. but then again, this place wouldn't be as entertaining.

besides, this guy is just expressing his right to petition the government, no matter how head-scratchingly r-worded his argument is.

[nadinbrzezinski]

55. Well it is not just WND going there

but you knew that.

[fascisthunter]

60. LOL... "bring it on!"... I'll bring my mind... it's all that is needed

you pathetic brownshirt fruit cakes.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

61. hey NB missed

u on the fundraising thread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021285933

[fascisthunter]

62. um... so? Tell me what the purpose of your reply is

I'm sure others want to know.

edit: neither am I...

pour yourself a drink.

[nadinbrzezinski]

66. Well this kind of social presure is understandable

but as a reporter I am registered independent, before doing the job, and I do not give money to ANY political campaign.

On the down side, I spent the morning listening to a debate between two local pols.

[fascisthunter]

68. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU GAVE MONEY

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. As a reporter, and I told this to the DNC as well,

I don't give to ANY political campaign.

We need to keep a certain decorum when doing the job.

And quite frankly it took a while for them to FINALLY drop me from the donor list, since I did give four years ago... alas I was not a reporter then.

[fascisthunter]

65. I guess Laura hates your post about WorldNut Daily

[nadinbrzezinski]

69. Well, I just keep my eye on them

and the rhythm of calls has gone to one every forty eight hours, from different places... this picked up right before the Republican convention. I expect to pick even more speed.

[fascisthunter]

70. well... as I said to her, she can pour her own drink

[LynneSin]

64. These are the people that would have sided with the king in 1776

If their leaders aren't wealthy white land owners they get scared. Like the peasants will revolt

[nadinbrzezinski]

67. I think John Burke would have shown them the door though

And you are correct, for the same reasons actually. Some things have not changed.

[fascisthunter]

72. well, when you depend on the fetid tit of aristocracy...

...you become their slave. Such an honorable role in life, I'm sure.