General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWTF is wrong with our young people??
I was I college 67-71 and our generation was on the front lines protesting the VN War for what seemed like forever. Whats about to happen to this Country once the Orange Anus is exonerated and the checks and balance power of Congress becomes a moot point is terrifying. Seriously, WTF is wrong with these young people? Are they incapable of seeing how their lives are going to change for the worse?
Thunderbeast
(3,404 posts)Last edited Wed Jan 22, 2020, 04:08 PM - Edit history (1)
...and send them to Asia in an imperial army.
The the threat was not just real...
IT WAS PERSONAL!
shanti
(21,675 posts)And until it's personal for most people, nothing will change, not just talking about the youth.
brush
(53,758 posts)they're done with itkeyboard warrior style.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)that makes the Okay Boomer line so fitting. If you guys spent less time patting yourselves on the back and more time actually paying attention to young people you might come across as less comical.
brush
(53,758 posts)budkin
(6,699 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)all knew their draft numbers and were intensely aware of the state of the war and draft. Approaching graduation meant something extremely different for most of them than for us girls.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)I think it was mostly older people that did.
Trump won the over 50 vote.
https://www.people-press.org/2018/08/09/an-examination-of-the-2016-electorate-based-on-validated-voters/
treestar
(82,383 posts)If they voted at the same rate as older people, Hillary would be president.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)It was the older vote that put Trump in office.
Democrats won the 2018 midterms thanks to the younger vote.
randr
(12,409 posts)If the percentage of voting blocs go below 60% they have no reason to whine.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Older ones do. Cant blame them for that. Its their right to vote , which they exercise
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)I really wish older people could get over themselves long enough to understand the structural barriers to voting if you are young, at college, or otherwise mobile.
One of my kids, in his twenties, has lived in three different states in the last several months. Was an out-of-State student at college (and thus couldnt vote there), graduated and moved back here briefly, and has just moved to another state with a long residence requirement before being able to register to vote. Hell make it in time for November, but the fact of the matter is that unlike old farts whove settled down, the requirements for voter registration do not - by design - accommodate college students or highly mobile young people (as indeed they tend to be).
One of my other ones? He is a Dem campaign organizer and legislative coordinator for the state Democratic legislative caucus, and hes as fucking tired as I am of hearing boomers complain about people his age.
demosincebirth
(12,536 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)The deadline to register is 24 days before an election. However, in order to establish legal residence in my state, so that you can line up your ID and get something like a lease or utility bill to establish your residence in order to get the ID, then youll need a little more than two months prior to the election as lead time.
It is a simple fact that most newcomers to my state skew young. Thats true in general because older people arent as relatively mobile.
So, to take one categorical example, none of the students coming from out of state and intending to stay here (particularly grad students, for example) are going to have been here long enough by the time November rolls around.
You dont know what you are talking about.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)Polybius
(15,364 posts)What's their excuse for not voting?
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Statistically, residence requirements have a disparate impact on young people.
Polybius
(15,364 posts)n/t
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Some people fail To understand how statistics work.
There are old people who dont vote. There are young people who dont vote.
There are specific barriers which disfavor young people voting.
The result is that there will be a greater proportion of younger non voters than older non voters.
But I tend to forget that not everyone understands math.
Perhaps if someone told them they could cut the social security burden of supporting obnoxious old scolds, theyd be more motivated to do so.
Particularly in view of the idiots that old people vote for - i.e. Trump.
But as is typical with Boomers, they will consistently rally around the theme of its someone elses fault, lets complain about them as a proxy for doing good.
Polybius
(15,364 posts)Even 25 years ago. I voted at 19 in 1992, and every single one of my friends did not. It was harder to register then too. But I really shouldn't attack anyone who is young and doesn't vote. Most young people just aren't interested in politics.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)And so did all of the political junkies here.
The other thing I forget is the self-absorption which is conducive to the why isnt everyone else like me attitudes.
When you were young and voting, young voters were STILL not voting in the same proportion.
Polybius
(15,364 posts)Maybe we've all been too hard on young people, including myself. We should always encourage them to vote, but we can't force anyone.
demosincebirth
(12,536 posts)Meowmee
(5,164 posts)I took voting very seriously from the time I became a citizen and I always voted, no matter what.
demosincebirth
(12,536 posts)Mariana
(14,854 posts)Different Drummer
(7,611 posts)Nor do I plan to vote for him in November.
58Sunliner
(4,375 posts)Does 26.5% represent the bulk of 50+ voters? Doubtful.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)It was Putins vote that handed it to him.
Mariana
(14,854 posts)But, plenty voted against him. Sure, they were a minority of voters over 50, but there were a lot of them.
radical noodle
(8,000 posts)My husband and I are 72 now and we didn't vote for trump. I know others. We may not be the majority, but I don't think our numbers are small.
Me.
(35,454 posts)or what has gone on before they began existence. 67% didn't know about Auschwitz. Also during the time you mention wasn't there a recession that made it nearly impossible for college grads to get a job?
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)Me.
(35,454 posts)Post #7
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)His reasoning is "politics is one big scam".
Me.
(35,454 posts)Last edited Wed Jan 22, 2020, 11:48 PM - Edit history (1)
along with other non voters
Mariana
(14,854 posts)Me.
(35,454 posts)six of one, half dozen of the other
CousinIT
(9,234 posts)In fact, I don't believe civics is even taught anymore. Are there even history books or is it all computer. But there also seems to be a lack of curiosity about what has gone on before them.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Yeah, I see the old shits in my area line up like someones giving out free beer every time there is a chance to vote down school funding proposals.
Luciferous
(6,078 posts)it.
SCantiGOP
(13,867 posts)I was also in college in the early 70s and was very active in the anti-war and civil rights movements.
Dont praise that generation too much. I couldnt believe how the whole student activist movement seemed to die out overnight once the draft was ended. Turned out most of the protests were because the baby boomers didnt want to either die in a jungle and/or delay pursuit of their careers.
NoMoreRepugs
(9,400 posts)SCantiGOP
(13,867 posts)Just pointing out that for many the self-interest was more of a motivation than the idealism.
LisaM
(27,800 posts)After the Vietnam war ended, we entered a very troubled period - the Nixon resignation, stagflation, the oil crisis, and then the Reagan years. That's a lot of stuff to beat down an idealistic generation.
There were also battles being fought on other fronts - abortion, gay rights, and a myriad of other things. Some battles were won, many were lost, but I don't think it's necessarily true that the minute the draft ended, activism and even some of the idealism of the sixties went away.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)The people in the late sixties and seventies had an imminent threat hanging over their heads, at least the men did. The threat for today's youth is not as crystallized.
BTW, an enormous amount of that generation put Trump into office. So how sincere were their protests? As one poster pointed out, as soon as Vietnam was no longer a threat, campus activism by White kids died out, there were demonstrations by Black kids, but the things being demonstrated against were different.
brush
(53,758 posts)as GenXers and Millenials are, though most won't admit itsee the Charlottesville
nazis, no Boomers there.
Mariana
(14,854 posts)The Charlottesville event drew a few hundred Nazis, and they came from all over the country. They simply do not represent a significant percentage of that age group.
brush
(53,758 posts)are millennials, not to mention all the millennials and GenXers who attend his rallies, and then there are those who flash the white power sign at athletic events and even at the military academies and police departments.
Stop fooling yourself.
cemaphonic
(4,138 posts)the conservative/liberal support by age cohort is pretty distinct.
Sure there are conservative Millennials and Zoomers out there. But Silents and Boomers are the ones putting Republicans in office (GenX is pretty split, with a bit of an edge toward Democrats).
wnylib
(21,417 posts)risk their lives or delay their careers. We were not under attack. The Vietnamese govt was corrupt and the Vietnamese people themselves weren't eager to support it. I agree that self-interest motivated young people to oppose risking their lives for ??? A domino theory? For people who wanted to be united rather than support their own dictators?
When it mattered, when there was motivation, boomers did risk their lives, as Freedom Riders and in other Civil Rights actions. And many who believed what they were told about serving their nation and defending liberty did go to Vietnam. Others went abroad in the Peace Corp, or stayed in the US as Vista volunteers.
There was altruism and idealism among boomers as well as self concern.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)There were two historically significant and heroic cases, but most Whites watched the struggle from the comfort of their living rooms.
wnylib
(21,417 posts)actively involved in civil rights were black. However, the point of the freedom rides was to have blacks and whites integrated on the buses as well as in the rest rooms and lunch rooms/counters in the terminals. Hard to do without whites to integrate with. The first group consisted of 7 blacks and 6 whites. I think John Lewis was on either the first or second bus.
Of the 3 civil rights workers who were murdered in MS, 2 were white.
I'm not sure that I understand why you brought up race in regard to my comments about boomers in genera being involved in social movements. Certainly the majority of civil rights activists were black, particularly in the voter registration marches. But I was talking about boomers in general. Boomers were/are both white and black. There were many blacks who went to Vietnam. And there were black and white anti war protesters.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)There were very few Blacks in Vietnam war protest marches, many of them had relatives who were fighting.
The civil rights struggle reached it's zenith in 1964-66, a few years before Vietnam protests. If you look at who were being bitten by dogs, sprayed with firehouses, or being spit on at lunch counters, you may see one White among a mass of Blacks. Cheney and the other White man that were killed by brutal thugs in Mississippi were the exception rather than the rule, even as their sacrifice was historically important and selfless.
wnylib
(21,417 posts)that period. The massive anti war protests in DC occurred later, but protests did exist in some regions by 1966-1968. I remember some kids at school wearing anti war buttons on clothing and anti war stickers on notebooks, lockers, and book jackets.
A lot of war protesters were white middle class kids. When King included Vietnam and the draft as one of the means of socio-economic control, more blacks came to oppose the war. I've looked at photos of the Freedom March in 63 and the Poor People's march in 68. Mostly blacks present. But you can also see some whites in the crowd, individually and in groups.
Absolutely true that the people who experienced the dangerous, life-threatening actions, like dogs in the streets and at the beaches, and the hoses and beatings were black. I was 14 - 16 and remember being horrified and angry at seeing it in the news. Also remember the church bombing that killed the young girls.
There is one experience I still remember. Takes a little time to tell it. I grew up in a northwestern PA city. Neighborhoods were segregated by custom there rather than by law. The city was small enough that both black and white neighborhoods were in the same high school district. Black and white kids interacted in school and extracurricular activities, but not much outside of school.
My father worked in a shop that employed a lot of blacks who had moved north for work. Black and white kids played together at company picnics and Xmas parties. My brother had a black friend who hung out with him and his white friends. I had a long walk to school. Sometimes I ran into my brother's black friend when I got near school, and walked the rest of the way with him. (My brother went to a different school at that time.) It wasn't common for a black guy and a white girl to walk together, but nobody made an issue of it, either.
So, i made a BIG mistake in the summer of 1966 when I was 16. My oldest brother was in the Navy, stationed in Charleston, SC and living in a white military community on an island. There was a black community on the other side of the island. There was one general store that served both communities. My family went for a visit when school was out and I stayed in SC the rest of the summer.
As I walked down a rural road to the store, I saw a kid about my age walking toward the road from a dirt side road. We reached the intersection of the 2 roads at the same time, so I said "Hi" and started to walk beside him and tried to chat. He was black. I should have known better from seeing news items, but it seemed normal to be friendly and rude if I wasn't.
He set me straight very quickly. "I can tell from how you talk that you're not from around here. I don't know what you're up to. Maybe you're one of those northern folks come down here thinking you can fix things, but I'm not gonna be your experiment. I like keeping my neck safe." He looked around. There were no houses in the area, no cars, and nobody else walking.
He said, "it's ok. Nobody saw us. Now I'm gonna walk ahead and don't come up beside me. Don't say a word to me. Make like I'm not here. White girls and black boys don't walk and talk together here. Don't mean to hurt your feelings, but that's how it is."
Of course after all these years, those aren't his exact words, but as close as I can remember.
I felt foolish for not knowing better. Summer in SC in 1966. I could have caused him lot of harm, and probably myself, too, if not for his straightforward, self-preserving warning.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Probably on purpose by Republican school boards. Not appreciating what there is to lose
CaptYossarian
(6,448 posts)Marshall with Phyllis Schlafly. I don't know if they have already. That came out about 5 years ago.
intheflow
(28,451 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(22,311 posts)klook
(12,153 posts)Tipperary
(6,930 posts)Well there ya go.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,311 posts)Witness the periodic calls for a general strike or "march on DC" on this site and the disbelief that "no one is organizing it."
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)Somehow they did in the 60s.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,311 posts)Mariana
(14,854 posts)Stories and pictures from many of these demonstrations and rallies have been posted here. It's convenient for some posters to forget about all that, I guess, so they can feel superior.
Roland99
(53,342 posts)Saying the impeachment process is a waste of time and money. That he broke no laws
JHB
(37,157 posts)...about stopping communism. Were they representative?
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)We have to give them credit for at least trying to make a difference.
mahina
(17,637 posts)JHB
(37,157 posts)CaptYossarian
(6,448 posts)what their leadership will look like, both here and abroad, starting with Malala, then with David Hogg and Emma Gonzalez, and most recently, Greta Thunberg. How many more bright, inspired minds are still out there?
It always seems to take a mass tragedy to bring these leaders to the forefront. That's the unfortunate part of this.
Me.
(35,454 posts)They could save the world from itself
CaptYossarian
(6,448 posts)I really regret missing so many.
TruckFump
(5,812 posts)Did a 5th year in Calif because it was necessary to get a teaching credential.
Yep, we were vocal...to say the least.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,656 posts)Yes, young people are now faced with crushing student loan debt and a difficult economic future. But when your literal ass, that is, your life, is on the line you tend to become especially engaged in a cause.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)Whose ass is on the line in Southwest Asia war zones?
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,656 posts)Of course the current combat situation sucks and we shouldn't be there, but fighting in a dumb war when you volunteered for military service isn't quite the same as being involuntarily forced to fight in a dumb war.
we have volunteers who do many tours. Some come via family tradition, others to roll the dice for an education or career. They sell warrior status to generations growing up in an age when video games are war games . The government is also good at hiding the dead and injured.
global1
(25,237 posts)greyl
(22,990 posts)genxlib
(5,524 posts)OK, Boomer.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)Bettie
(16,083 posts)but then, I'm what they called a "slacker", so what do I know?
SlogginThroughIt
(1,977 posts)JFC i an so sick and tired of hearing about how back in my day we did it better... Guess what???? Life sucks for young people and it would be nice if the boomers recognized that fact and stopped the damn lecturing all the time. Want to get the younger gens to engage start getting the older people to stop voting for republicans!
These young people are saddled with enormous debt from school working jobs that do t pay anywhere near what they need them to pay and they dont have the luxury of buying a 3 bedroom home for what is pennies in comparison to todays housing costs.
YOUR generation continually fucks them over, screwed up the environment, and you want them to be inspired to help clean up the biggest sell out generation to ever live? Please. We should be begging them to help not chastising them for doing it wrong
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,656 posts)that young voters are the least reliable voters of all age groups. They just don't turn out in the same numbers as older voters, and this has been true for decades. http://www.electproject.org/home/voter-turnout/demographics If young people are concerned about student debt, the environment, being screwed over by us old people, etc., they need to get off their asses and fucking vote.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Just offhand, how long have you lived at your present address?
Better yet, how many addresses have you lived at:
1. In the last five years?
2. Between the ages of 18 and 24?
Just a number for questions 1 and 2.
Also, did you go to college within 100 miles of your permanent address?
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,656 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)2 addresses between the ages of 18 and 24 is pretty unusual.
Having had a change of career later in life, one of the most daunting challenges in applying for my license was actually nailing down the addresses of all of the places I had lived when I was younger.
For me, its more like 2 and 6.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,656 posts)Three or four, I think, but then only two more times after my mid-'30s.
I do appreciate the fact that younger people often move around quite a bit, which can make voter registration every time an extra hurdle - depending on where you live. In my state, though, they've made it so easy that in order to register all you have to do is show up at the polls on voting day with some form of ID showing your residence (college IDs are accepted), and if you're already registered you don't have to show any ID at all. They do everything but drive you there and buy you dinner - and now we can vote by mail, too. But even with this, and the fact that Minnesota usually has the highest average voter turnout in the country, young people here are still the least-active voting group. https://www.sos.state.mn.us/media/3054/minnesota-presidential-general-election-estimated-turnout-by-age-group.pdf So I'm a little cynical about that argument. At least here, it's not too hard to vote.
brooklynite
(94,452 posts)Signing up for cable and internet service. And gas/electrical service. And opening a new bank account. Somehow, people who move manage to get these things done.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Come from voting. With all the misfortunes you described, voting would be simpler than marching.
Eyeball_Kid
(7,430 posts)The younger generation in my family are hard working people who cant seem to get a break. They can barely afford two kids and a home mortgage. My son told me many times that HIS generation will be the first to be faced with a standard of living LOWER than his parents generation. Hes right.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)pstokely
(10,524 posts)brush
(53,758 posts)Last edited Wed Jan 22, 2020, 09:33 PM - Edit history (2)
The generation is split pretty evenly between Dems, repugs and independents,
just as GenXers and millennials are, although most won't admit it.see the Charlottesville nazis, no Boomers there.
And btw, Hillary won the popular vote, not trump and his vote-suppressing/vote-tampering cheaters with their Russian help. Boomers had plenty to do with that.
This insane generation bashing needs to stop. Help get out the vote instead.
BigDemVoter
(4,149 posts)once they get older and start changing their tunes. Unfortunately, many people start turning into repigs as they age. It never happened to me. I'm the same liberal now that I was at 18.
brush
(53,758 posts)white power-flashing racists and trigger-happy cops killing unarmed blackmen look pretty young to memeaning the millennials already have their share of repigs
Mariana
(14,854 posts)brush
(53,758 posts)Mariana
(14,854 posts)brush
(53,758 posts)to defeat trump. It's not all on Boomers. 53% of white women voters went for trump and just about two thirds of white male voters did too.
Mariana
(14,854 posts)Why do you feel the need to defend Boomers from an accusation that no one here made against them? And do it over and over and over again? That's rather dishonest. And you've done it yet again - no one here has ever said it's all on Boomers that we have Trump..
Most Boomers who voted in 2016 cast ballots for Trump.
Most white people who voted in 2016 cast their ballots for Trump.
Most men who voted in 2016 cast their ballots for Trump.
Most Christians who voted in 2016 cast their ballots for Trump.
Etc. Pretending these things aren't true doesn't help anyone.
brush
(53,758 posts)been many posts here insinuating quite openly that trump's election is mostly the
fault of Boomers.
Meowmee
(5,164 posts)Last edited Fri Jan 24, 2020, 08:04 PM - Edit history (1)
Listed 37% of boomers and 43% of millennials identify as dems. The rest are R or I I assume. Many boomers did not vote R. The majority posting here did not vote R. Not voting is a big problem imo, especially now, there is no excuse whatever your age unless you are being intimidated not to.
There are far many more dems overall but dems have a big problem with non voters. If you dont vote you are part of the problem, whatever your age. I dont like the candidate, Im too pure, I am too busy, my life is too hard, I moved, Im depressed, I need to be inspired, they are all the bad/ the same and so on, none are a reason not to vote. I was never that inspired or even really liked 99% of people I voted for but I know what the stakes are, especially now, and I always voted, always for dems. The alternative was always terrible.
Some seem to think there is a choice of not voting, some seem to think this is a big reality show with no consequences. We are living with the consequences of the last election with fascism and insanity taking over the government.
brush
(53,758 posts)Agreed 100%
Eyeball_Kid
(7,430 posts)Its the Boomer Generation that has contributed mightily to the corporatocracy that permitted Trumpy to take power and ascend to a dictatorship. Its the Boomers who refused to regulate capitalism more tightly. The corporate elites are all of Boomer age or younger. Dont blame the younger folks. Were all guilty.
WhiteTara
(29,699 posts)I had a teacher once who said
The wise wo/man when drowning doesn't ask how they got there, they seek how to get out.
We're all in this together and none of us will get out alive. It is how we walk the earth between birth and death.
Cosmocat
(14,560 posts)The kids arent the problem, they didnt elect the pos, or put republic jackasses in office.
OLD PEOPLE DID.
demmiblue
(36,833 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)They were there out of fear and to get laid, there were no pure motives to their conduct. Blacks had fought and died for civil rights, the beatnik generation helped Reagan begin to roll back those rights and continue to this day to vote overwhelmingly republican.
brush
(53,758 posts)DBoon
(22,350 posts)We get to listen to those 40 years younger than us condemn us for the failure.
In 40 years it will be your turn.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)As soon as war was not a threat to it, it fell into an orgy of consumerism and selfishness. Yes, I am a boomer. I was too young for the protests, but I got to fight many of the protesters electorally as they fell over themselves for Reagan and the two Bushes, and now Trump. The generation is significant only for it's size, it did nothing good with that size.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Got the voting age lowered to 18 and made Reagan a two term president.
DBoon
(22,350 posts)Your sweeping statement that a generation of activists became selfish and greedy is untrue and is insulting to those of us who invested (and continue to invest) energy in social activism. Many people worked very hard. Some paid with their lives. Even those who may have become selfish and greedy still made the effort.
You completely discount the effort because some left the cause. Would you rather they never tried at all?
The generation did not fail, you did
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)But I don't pat myself on the back and claim credit for things that I had little input into. So no, I have not failed nor am I disgruntled, I am disappointed with my generation as a group, it had such great opportunity to make great societal strides and it failed, and followup generations have been dealing with the screwups that we caused directly, or failed to take permanent action against.
Sophia_Of_PlanetX
(73 posts)That is, if they can even get the day off. It's not worth going to a protest if you can get arrested for it. If you get arrested, you will probably be fired, which can ruin your life.
Also, people in general are comfortable. It's not worth the risk. Plus, there is no stardom to fuel the counter-culture. Most entertainment is very capitalistic and generic now. Being political would be bad for media sales, making the mega-corporations unhappy.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,656 posts)That's not new. And there are actually more protections from arbitrary actions by employers now than there ever were.
WhiteTara
(29,699 posts)protesting Democrats.
Different Drummer
(7,611 posts)Makes me mad!
WhiteTara
(29,699 posts)republicons don't. We're easy targets.
bdamomma
(63,810 posts)and apparently repigs don't that is why they want no witnesses. Sorry I'm off topic.
We need to unite all of us. Putin must love this Americans are divided and fighting with each other.
Let us all take a deep breath and save our country.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)MineralMan
(146,281 posts)But guess what? College age people didn't turn out to vote in any higher percentages then than they have in other elections. Some of us were activists during the Vietnam War. Some of us voted for Democrats, too, although our candidates didn't do so well nationally. There were also people our age who voted as Republicans and a majority of young people who didn't bother to vote at all, or even register to vote.
So, today, there are young people who are out protesting climate change and other things. Probably about the same percentage as protested the Vietnam War, if my rough counts are accurate. There are young people who are active in politics and who vote for Democrats and work to get others out to vote. And, as in the late 60s, there are young people who vote for Republicans. There's also a majority of young people who will not vote at all or who will not even bother to register to vote.
It's the same deal as it was then, really.
rzemanfl
(29,556 posts)got my bachelors degree. Couldnt vote.
MineralMan
(146,281 posts)We fared very poorly in that election. I'm a little older than you, I guess. I voted in 1966, the first year I was eligible. Both in 66 and 68, I voted absentee, because I was in the USAF and away from home or overseas. I returned to college in 1969, when I was 24 years old and finished up there in 1972.
In late 1968 and 1969, I was an anti-war protester and sometimes protest leader in the Washington DC area, while still in the USAF.
rzemanfl
(29,556 posts)Good for you for protesting.
brush
(53,758 posts)The cohort is split just as GenXers and millennials are today (many won't admit
it though).
My first presidential vote btw was in 1972 for Gus Hall and Angela Davis when I
lived in Berkeley, Ca.
President Sauron
(6 posts)I'm a young pup, and I, too, wonder "wtf is wrong with my generation?". I honestly thought there would be a hippie movement 2.0 by now. The amount of ignorance is disheartening, and really worries me. Even the demonstrations in support for impeachment were minute, compared to other protests in my lifetime.. I don't get it.. this is potentially a life-changing situation, and yet most of my friends are totally unbothered with what is going on.
Everything feels so surreal. I feel like my days, are in a daze.
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)D_Master81
(1,822 posts)Im 38 years old so I dont remember politics pre Newt and Fox News. Politics has been more of a sport about who wins than whats good for the country. Kids younger than me have grown up in an even more hyper partisan environment where theyve grown to think both sideism and all politicians lie. Trump has simply used this feeling to the extreme. Young people dont do anything cause deep down they believe even if trump is removed the next guy will be the same. So they throw their hands up and ignore it all.
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)rzemanfl
(29,556 posts)There were no tasers. Imagine a 60s style police riot with them.
RealityChik
(382 posts)...at war protest rallies but no tear gas. I guess cuz we were good little catholic college girls from Gonzaga! Cops were pretty courteous, actually. Maybe they were thinking, "Gee what would the pope say if we manhandled petulant little lambs from his flock!"
Law enforcement became especially weaponized when the Iraq War started winding down. After all, all that left over artillery had to land SOMEWHERE to keep the profits flowing. So many criminal activities to finance, politicians to buy...
Big city police departments seemed just the ticket, given all those returning war vets with weapons experience needing jobs, brown people to arrest and that "faux" war on drugs.
Activism is a little more dangerous now than when we were kids!
rzemanfl
(29,556 posts)visibly pregnant women walking down the street minding their own business. They also tear gassed houses students lived in late at night just for fun. Pigs.
DBoon
(22,350 posts)To the extent this activism has not disappeared entirely.
I'm younger than you, but there was certainly a history of post-Vietnam political activism that has been lost. Try searching "Alliance for Survival" or "Campaign for Economic Democracy" and see how thin the results are.
Some of us did not spend those years at the Disco
mathematic
(1,434 posts)And can we all stop pretending like the vietnam war protests worked to make a better world? Nixon was elected in '68 and '72. The cold war continued for two more decades, and, oh btw, the USA won it, which only served to validate the strategic framework of containment.
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,908 posts)Last edited Wed Jan 22, 2020, 07:04 PM - Edit history (1)
Or is this just old man yells at clouds?
progressoid
(49,961 posts)IMHO.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)...than you are incapable of seeing them change lives.
I see Greta Thunberg.
I see David Hogg and Emma Gonzales.
On March 14, I watched an estimated 1 million students participated in 3,000 official school walkouts... and I also heard those adults who trivialized and minimized those same efforts.
I see these things because I look for them, and do not dismiss them.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,311 posts)Alliepoo
(2,215 posts)They arent looking at having their fannies shipped overseas by our government to fight in a war they dont like or believe in. It was personal for us. For todays kids, not so much.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,294 posts)Yeah, that was better than other age groups, but it's still a majority for Nixon.
We can look at the comparison of the margin for Nixon, in his re-election year, and that for Obama, in his re-election year, of the youth age group versus the overall vote. 18-29 year olds voted 52-46 for Nixon, and overall it was 61-36. So that's 19 points better than the overall vote (6 point margin v. 25 point). In 2012, it was 60-37 for Obama, v. 50-48 overall - 21 points better. Or, in electing the piece of crap in 2016, it was 55-36, v. 48-46 overall - 17 points better overall.
So, there's not much difference in the relative enthusiasm of youth for Democrats from 1972 to now. What's "wrong with them" is what's always been wrong - some of them are dumb reactionaries, or don't care. And that goes for all age groups.
More: Here's the figures for all intervening years. In 1984, the youth group voted for Reagan's re-election at the same rate as the whole country - 59% Reagan, 40% Mondale! WTF was "wrong with them"?
1972 1976 1980 1984 1988 1992 1996 2000 2004 2008 2012 2016
18-29 Democrat 46 51 44 40 47 43 53 48 54 66 60 55
Republican 52 47 43 59 52 34 34 46 45 32 37 36
Total Democrat 36 50 41 40 45 43 49 48 48 53 50 48
Republican 61 48 51 59 53 38 41 48 51 46 48 46
Diff 19 2 11 0 3 4 11 2 12 27 21 17
(can't format tables on DU3. The bottom line is "the bottom line" - the difference from the average for all age groups. In 1972 youth was 19 points higher for the Democrat, in 1976 2 points, and so on. The vote that was the biggest pro-Dem youth vote was 2008; 1984 the worst. In 1996, Clinton's re-election, it was only +2.)
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,656 posts)because that was the first presidential election where 18-year-olds could vote, and there was probably a lot of built-up enthusiasm. It was the first election where I was old enough to vote; I would have loved to have been able to vote against Nixon in 1968 but you had to be 21 then and I wasn't. The change to the voting age came in 1971, and it happened largely because 18-year-olds were old enough to be drafted and sent to Vietnam but they had no say in who was sending them there.
braddy
(3,585 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,656 posts)I wonder how much different the outcome would have been if we could?
braddy
(3,585 posts)difference., in 1968 Nixon had two well known Democrats running against him (Wallace in his only election campaign as a 3rd party since he lost the nomination to Humphrey).
TubbersUK
(1,439 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)about who is leading government, they just want to burn it down, that is why they are so open to populist candidates that promise radical change or something new, even when the promises are vague.
0rganism
(23,933 posts)perhaps they are afraid, and not of nebulous threats like nuclear war and/or communism infecting southeast Asia.
perhaps they are afraid of being shot by their classmates and neighbors or being "suicided" by the police.
leaders are able to motivate people to step forward in spite of their legitimate fears. in the absence of strong leadership people have their fears and disapproval from folks like you for motivation. i'm actually impressed we have as much activism as we do, given how thoroughly our society has moved to crush and/or appropriate dissent.
RealityChik
(382 posts)I am the parent of one GenXer and one Millennial. Thinking back to the 1980s and 1990s, weren't we Boomers too wrapped up in being upwardly-mobile Yuppies to exert the activism of our younger years needed to descend on Congress to revive Civics and volunteerism in our children school curricula?
If our grown children are disengaged from civic engagement, have we no one to blame but ourselves? I became politically involved because my parents were. But I was somehow too naive to believe that my children would grow into activism as they matured just because I did at their age.
Heck, only a small percent of college-age kids today can name the three branches of our government. Even fewer can recall the dates of the US Civil War. Whose fault is that? In the long-term, OURS. We never taught them to remember how important that information is, and relevant it might become.
My activism lapsed during my child-rearing years. I was too busy running a business, engaging in my kids schoolwork and interests and nurturing their talents to see the error of that naïveté. And buying lots of STUFF. Luckily, and in spite of lapse, my kids eventually acquired civic intelligence as adults, but regretfully not the fire or participation of civic activism that I had hoped. Whose fault? Very much, mine.
Let's not point fingers and find others to blame for America's problems. In all honesty, America is getting exactly what it deserves. Don't like that? Only "We the People" can change that. Only by owning some of the blame, getting active and most of all, not losing hope can we save ourselves and our nation.
comradebillyboy
(10,134 posts)As their responsibilities grow and they have more skin in the game they will tend to become more civically engaged out of necessity.
democrank
(11,092 posts)I see them at rallies and marches. Ive seen them volunteer, make posters, raise money. Ive seen them show concern for others and their environment. Ive heard them speak out against racism, bullying, misogyny. Young people are our future. We should find new, innovative ways to inspire them.
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)Or playing games on the puter
Codeine
(25,586 posts)Its like a retirement community cocktail party up in this place today. Jeeeezus.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Bettie
(16,083 posts)perfect description!
DavidDvorkin
(19,473 posts)Other supported the war.
I started college in 1961. I knew quite a few Goldwater supporters during the leadup to the 1964 election.
No generation is monolithic.
triron
(21,988 posts)Codeine
(25,586 posts)bitching about kids and social media on a message board.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)I know many who did.
Ive not seen any millennials do any of what that generation did.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)of acceptance for gays and lesbians, for the trans community, and for people on the autism spectrum. Zoomers are taking that even further. Not all activism is about making noise on the street, sometimes its about changing the society in which we live.
I believe that belittling millennials comes out of not really taking the time to understand them.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)We were fighting long before the millennials created a culture of acceptance for gays and lesbians.
Sorry, but my gay brothers and sisters ( and the Stonewall generation) created our acceptance. We fought through AIDS, every kind of discrimination, hatred, bigotry, etc.
The millennials werent born when I came out, so nah.
So glad theyre all cool with it now though.
NNadir
(33,509 posts)...nothing about and, oh yeah, cause the atmospheric concentration of carbon dioxide to rise by 100 ppm in our lifetimes.
We took the richest country in the world and made it the world's largest debtor, dumped our garbage on third world citizens.
Oh, and did I mention we put Ronald Reagan, George Bush, George Bush II and Donald Trump in the White House.
To what generation does Donald Trump belong? George W. Bush? Mitch McConnell? Did they "do something?"
We were a wasted generation. We need to be driven out of power so these kids can start rebuilding all the shit we destroyed.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)Fuck me.
NNadir
(33,509 posts)There are kids in the third world going blind because they can't understand the contents of a biology book.
More than 100 Nobel Laureates Take on Greenpeace
The Nobel Laureates Campaign Supporting GMOs (Richard Roberts, Journal of Innovation & Knowledge Volume 3, Issue 2, MayAugust 2018, Pages 61-65.)
I saw Dr. Roberts speak at Princeton. It was a very powerful talk.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)I see a lot of good done by boomers.
NNadir
(33,509 posts)...exalted views of this awful generation. We aren't even perceptive enough to get what an awful mess we made.
I stand by what I said, and I am NOT tired. I never tire of stating the TRUTH as I see it.
Anyone who gets tired of telling the truth is worthless.
I am old, but I have never tired of being aware.
If you break your arm patting yourself and my generation on the back for screwing the planet over forever at least you will have money to do something about it; as opposed to choosing between paying your student loan, working two jobs for low pay, and having smug superiors look down on you.
My sons are Millennials. They, and the people around them impress the hell out of me. They are a joy. I expect great things from these people. They are dynamic, broad, and far reaching, tolerant, and absorbing knowledge despite great cost.
As for the old people in my crowd, they are withered, whiny, wallowing, wimps, sort of like the President they put in office.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Withered, whiny, wallowing wimps in your crowd? Sorry for you. Yikes. My friends are runners, writers, travelers, gardeners, walkers, and politically involved. Sounds like a sad crowd you hang with.
Do they know you think that of them?
No one I know of any age is like that, though the youngsters seem to be a bit whiny.
NNadir
(33,509 posts)Last edited Fri Jan 24, 2020, 05:20 PM - Edit history (1)
They're retired and with all that running, traveling, gardening and walking, they don't impress me as leading interesting lives.
In my alliterative expression, I am deliberately excluding some friends in a professional organization in which I am active. They are, on reflection, actually old people, but they're young in their minds, and they would be horrified, to see the contempt for the younger generation expressed here.
Of course, they are very much involved in science education at a high level, and are not carrying on about how wonderful they are or were in 1968 and complaining that this isn't just like 1968.
Given a choice, I prefer to hang out with young people. They're not all wrapped up in their hobbies, since they are exploring and hardly sedentary. I suspect the people I know who qualify under my alliterative phrase know how I feel, since I don't engage them. My neighbor is wonderful at gardening. I haven't spoken to her in at least 10 years.
As for young people, "those kids today," well...
Unfortunately, many of them are not all into gardening, since laboring under debt, they're not buying first homes, never mind, second homes.
They live in the real world.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)You seem to be missing a point here. Like seriously what is the issue you are on about?
Codeine
(25,586 posts)Im sick unto death of the veneration of Boomers. Your marching didnt stop the war, the war ended because it was an unwinnable shitshow. Stop praising yourselves already.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)The boomer generation has been one of the most disappointing in the country's history. All we have is some protested the Vietnam war, we take credit for civil rights accomplishments that some of us had nothing to do with.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)The rest might have watched it on television.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)To hear some Boomers tell it, colleges and high schools were empty during matches as young people took the streets, or White Boomers were facing down Bull Connor and his water hoses and dogs. Reality of those times was vastly different. I am a Boomer, though too young to march and protest, I see why today's youth dismiss us with "Ok Boomer", basically we were mostly a nothing generation.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)I should move to Canada.
And that was funny, mainly because our family is Canadian.
But, as you noted, most people were doing normal things like attending school, and working.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)braddy
(3,585 posts)change, for one, ending a draft that had run continuously for over 30 years (except for 1948), voting for 18 year olds and lots of other things, including producing Presidents Clinton and Obama.
JoeOtterbein
(7,700 posts)Go at it fellow Boomer!
BlueTsunami2018
(3,488 posts)A host of reasons really.
It seems the AntiFa kids are the only ones who get it.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)Im older but Ive got a teen daughter and a preteen son their age cohort is politically aware and far more progressive than you can imagine.
Bettie
(16,083 posts)and one who is 11. The older two are politically active, aware, and, if possible, more liberal than I am.
Yeah, there are MAGAT kids in our small, mostly red, town, but they tend to be far less aware and far less likely to be politically active than the liberal ones and there are more liberal kids than there are liberal parents around here.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)and theyre a more reliably liberal bloc than your generation ever was. The bullshit were swimming in is completely the fault of the Boomers and their voting preferences, and the sooner theyre gone the sooner we can fix things.
I know a certain demographic here believes change only comes from bad music, bad hair, and chanting in the street, but I know enough young people to have confidence that once the current cohort of boomers start aging out that the world will be a better, kinder, and more just place to live.
spot on ...
cwydro
(51,308 posts)No one votes as reliably and consistently as seniors ( who now are mostly Boomers.)
Codeine
(25,586 posts)The Boomers voted in similar proportions in their youth. Certainly they ALL vote now.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Im a young Boomer, and so are my friends, but we voted from 18 on.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)but I dont delude myself that GenXers were following my lead. Im willing to bet most DUers have rarely missed an election part of what makes us awesome.
ecstatic
(32,673 posts)Overall, our congressmen and senators are doing an awful job with regard to explaining what's at stake. You have democrats who still say they're going to review the evidence and make a decision. WTF? We all know trump is guilty as sin, why the hell would you say that?! Now that's what you call a mixed message!
Our country is flaming out and the people in power are smiling and acting really calm about it.
At the same time we have young folks who get all of their information from social media, so we're basically at the mercy of 1 or 2 idiot celebrities, who likely get all their information from Russian bots. It's very disturbing.
former9thward
(31,961 posts)The protesting in the streets (which was always done by a small minority of the generation) disappeared after the draft disappeared. Once people did not have to fear being drafted into war the protest movement against that war largely vanished. The war ended not because of protests but because the American people tired of a land war in Asia that could not be won. The same reason that people are tired of any further involvement in Afghanistan.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)that they stopped the war with their marches. That history fails to back up their analysis seems to get lost in the all of the self-congratulatory noise.
Afromania
(2,768 posts)Did they get theirs and say fuck you to everybody else??? I mean if the generation you are talking about is the bees knees. Well, then we shouldn't even be having these problems right now, right? You guys were supposed to do better and look out for your babies. Instead, your generation went ahead and promptly "got theirs" and made things worse for everybody along with some help from mine.
I will not sit here and punch down on younger folks that have to deal with a mess they haven't created. Should they pay attention, yea they should. However, again, this is not their mess. They aren't ordering the destruction of the planets ecosystems, they aren't the heads of these companies trying to suck oil out of the ground wherever and whenever they can. They aren't the ones trying their motherfucking best to cut and gut every social system available
They are doing their best to scrape by with shit jobs that have terrible pay, lousy health care (if any), and few days off. Additionally, they are saddled some sort of lingering debt picked up while just trying to survive.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)They absolutely fucking did. They rode the wave of prosperity created by their parents and promptly undercut the ability of anyone who followed them to benefit from any of it, all while being catered to based on their size and subsequent buying power.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Started out complaining about the older generation, and now ceaselessly complains about the younger one.
Main skill seems to be demanding that others fix their shit.
Collimator
(1,639 posts)I have personally known a few millennials who were entitled little shits. I have watched far more millennials on television blow me away with their commitment, their passion, and their insight.
Whether they do act now or not, the insane mix of greed and short-sightedness that is decaying our natural world and civil society will become their problem. They may have their share of failings, but the critical concerns that are threatening their future are not their fault.
They will be paying for our failures and perhaps some of their own if they do not engage in time. Even if they do act in large numbers, they will still be paying for our failures. Castigating them is not the answer.
It is my hope and prayer that they will seize the advantages of our new, media connected world and turn it into a weapon against the wave of hatred, greed and divisiveness that is the greatest threat to our human species. If they do not, however, that hardly makes them any worse than the generations before them.
Blame and fault-finding have never prepared a mind to gather wisdom.
Skittles
(153,138 posts)EVERYTHING is wrong with the world they are forced to live in
Codeine
(25,586 posts)and then mock them for their powerlessness. Aint that some shit?
Skittles
(153,138 posts)it is sooooooooo different now, it is INSANE to compare to a generation fifty years ago....and I remember back then!
LonePirate
(13,412 posts)pnwmom
(108,973 posts)Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)NNadir
(33,509 posts)...and facing unbelievable horrors because of what we, the baby boomers, did to them.
They are entering a world with a destroyed environment, depletion of all major resources, threats to their food supply, a rise in fascism, a world we, the baby boomers, allowed to happen when we were in power.
We protested as long as our asses were on the line, but as soon as the draft ended we became self absorbed consumers.
These kids are laboring under mounds of debt, working hard, and facing mindless criticism from people with their heads up their asses.
Trump is a baby boomer, in many ways the avatar of our generation, a fat ass pig who cares only for himself and nothing for the future.
Let me tell you something. "These kids today" have it in them to be a "greatest" generation, because they must be a greatest generation if they are to survive. Great generations rise against great challenges.
The will not be a generation with a slogan like "sex, drugs and rock and roll." They give a shit, but not in pointless public displays of ersatz holiness and ersatz senses of superiority.
ancianita
(36,009 posts)berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)rainy
(6,089 posts)causing many to lose their jobs. Some cant get tenure. Even in our music industry artists are destroyed for speaking the truth. Dixie Chics! Ive often asked where are our musicians and other artists? Thank god for our comedians, the only artists left not losing their jobs for speaking the truth!
brooklynite
(94,452 posts)They don't look exhausted. They look like they're having a fun time. They have 10 minutes to fill out an election form and mail it in.
NNadir
(33,509 posts)Anecdotal evidence says more about the person offering the anecdote than it does about the true state of affairs.
Personally, I don't "go out" to bars. I hang out in university libraries. The young people I see in them are working their asses off. They are packed with young people, day and night, off into the wee hours of the morning.
Of course, none of this implies that they'll get jobs for their efforts, since the wondrous Baby Boomers, expecting intelligent people to kiss their asses because they have money (and no brains) have set up a world different than the ones their parents gave them. This world, baby boomer land, is ruled by MBA's. What exactly is an "MBA" anyway? A club where you learn to trade other peoples work while doing nothing meaningful?
We baby boomers are certainly good at doing nothing.
The atmosphere is destroyed - because Baby Boomers did nothing - the seas are dying because Baby Boomers did nothing. There are huge lagoons of fracking water, and the holes out of which they came, leading down to permanently pulverized crust that will be leaching toxic waste and mobilized toxic metals for century upon century because "Baby Boomers" did nothing, because they went around in their nothing burger land saying "natural gas is just transitional." The last statement is proof positive that they don't know how to read, add or subtract. You know what's going to be in breast milk for the next three centuries? Peflurooctanoic acid that Baby Boomers sprayed on their sofas so they wouldn't get stained. You know what's going to grow in Lake Erie instead of fish? Microcystis aeruginosa spewing hepatotoxic microcystic peptides.
But since we're into anecdotes, who is a more positive avatar of a generation, Malala Yousafzai or Rupert Murdoch, Nadia Murad or Susan Collins, Greta Thunberg or Donald Trump?
You want to see what these young people are doing? Go to a library. Leave the fucking bar and engage one in a conversation at a scientific meeting or at a conference of any kind. I do this quite often. These kids impress the hell out of me. They are way better than we were.
I personally know a lot of young people and I can't think of one who would qualify as a 1970's type stoner, but hey, maybe I'm just going to the right places as opposed to the wrong ones. Well I do know one kid like that, but the kids I know cut him off.
Oh, and I am father to two millennials. They are not hanging out in bars. They are smarter than I was at their age, more aware of the world than I was, more passionate than I was and no, they aren't going to dress up in monkey suits, join Greenpeace and drive around in gas guzzling SUV's to climate protests. They aren't going to pretend that their responsibility for the environment involves driving that same SUV to the mall to buy Sierra Club calendars at Christmas.
If I recall, when I was a kid, there were a fuck load of us wonderful boomers smoking joints and laying in garbage and mud at rock and roll festivals. Later, after having strewn Yasgar's farm with beer bottles and plastic sheets, they filled the oceans and the rivers and the Earth's soil with plastic. After failing mathematics courses or getting "C"s in them, they "went back to school" to get MBA's and started ordering around other people whose work they didn't understand.
Our children, our grandchildren and their grandchildren are going to be picking through our garbage just to survive. We've made the whole world the third world.
Following on Ms. Thunberg, "How dare we?"
History will not forgive us, nor should it.
brooklynite
(94,452 posts)And I teach at a major university. I don't find all the students huddled in the Library on a Friday evening.
BlueWI
(1,736 posts)There is no defending the cumulative impact of political decisions between Nixon and Trump - the peak of Boomer involvement in politics. Older folks on this thread need to quit looking for scapegoats and take responsibility for their contribution to the state of things.
NNadir
(33,509 posts)Unless students are all "huddled" in the library on Friday night, the Millennial generation consists of bar hopping pieces of shit.
You know this because you teach at a university, a major one, and you are checking up on those awful lazy Millennials to see if they meet your standards of decency, when you're not patrolling the streets to see if they're in bars.
By contrast, in their time, the baby boomers were in the library all hours of the night, in your imagination, studying engineering and science, and it's entirely not their fault that in 1965 the annual concentration of the dangerous fossil fuel waste carbon dioxide in the planetary atmosphere was 320.04 ppm and um, in 2019 it was 411.44 ppm.
Don't worry. Be happy. It's not your problem.
I am a baby boomer and, much to my regret, I recall the pieces of shit in my generation all huddled in the mud, smoking dope, listening to a bored Grace Slick sing "White Rabbit" for the 10,000th time, when they were in their late teens and early 20's.
As it happens, because I have a 9 to 6, sometimes to 7 job, I am thus often in libraries on off hours...Friday nights, Wednesday nights...Saturday mornings, Saturday evenings, Sunday evenings...
Of course, there are times that these buildings are nearly empty, since those awful millennials, who are not as good as we are, sometimes need to sleep, especially those putting in long hours at menial jobs to pay their tuition when they don't have time to be in the library.
They don't need sleep as much as they need to live up to our expectations.
These kids are emerging from major universities with tens, hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt, some of which goes to pay the salaries of the bar patrol to make sure they are never having fun, never drinking to bury what must be fear, at least for the most cognizant of them, of the world we leave for them, that world where hundreds of billions of tons of heavy metal laden fossil fuels has been vaporized because we baby boomers all needed our cars, our stereos, our tv sets, our McMansions.
Now the major university that my son attends is known informally as a "work hard, party hard" school, although the "party hard" kids are not engineering and science students.
There are two kinds of people who grow up with their parents, assuming some baby boomer asshole hasn't separated them from their parents and put them in a cage, those who emulate their parents and those who improve upon their parents. My son tells me that the "party hard" types are emulating their parents, um, business majors.
Our generation has certainly set an example, haven't we?
The kids I know, however, overall are certainly improving on their parents generation. My son shares a house with five students living in it, four engineering students and one physics student. These kids are simply amazing.
Now of course, this is an anecdotal case, but here is a photograph, taken at random, off the internet, of that famous rock festival that was the pinnacle of our generation's rise to "adulthood" the "peace and love" festival at Woodstock:
The photograph is from the collection of photographs by the photographic journalist Burk Uzzle at the University of North Carolina.
Uzzle Buzz: Woodstock, Flag Pants, and Rolling Stone
Here's what I think of my generation: We never cleaned up those boxes of empty beer cans, plastic bottles, paper, etc. Never. We instead expanded that entire scene to fill the whole world, the oceans, the lakes, the rivers, the land, the cities, after vaporizing some of it to fill the planetary atmosphere with garbage.
Here is a picture of a "pristine" beach in Hawaii, Kahilo Beach on the main Island, an uninhabited beach.
Taking the measure of Hawaii's beaches.
We can of course, swap anecdotal stuff all day long, your bar patrols in the town outside your major university that depends on the debt of millennials to exist, my comparitive photographs of Woodstock and the modern Hawaiian beaches and debate whether, "We are golden, we are star dust," we Baby Boomers, when compared to those awful Millennials. These photographs, nevertheless, are a part of the legacy of the Baby Boomer generation. This is what we will leave to history.
OK Boomer?
We only see that at which we look, and we choose the things at which we look. It is true that I suffer from "selection pressure," when I look at these kids. But again, and again, and again, they impress me, those I see, admittedly by choice. I am hopefully not in toto a representative of my generation, which I abhor after a lifetime - a long lifetime - of experiencing them. I'm in the libraries to read scientific papers (generally) related to engineering and scientific articles on the environmental state of the world and possible engineering solutions that all future generations will require, and the cost of intense deprivation and expense, to clean up our mess. As I do this work, there are often sets of these wonderful young people in the room with me.
Two nights ago, I attended a fascinating lecture at a, um, major university, by an "under 30" person on the subject of measuring the aggregation states of proteins in solution by processing the methyl signals in 1D NMR. To me that guy represents the rising generation.
I am honored to be around these young people, who will, regrettably, have the legacy of cleaning up for the generation that elected Ronald Reagan, two George Bushs and, um, oh, baby boomer Donald Trump to the Presidency.
It's been a pleasure to chat. History will not forgive us, nor should it.
brooklynite
(94,452 posts)...followed by a seemingly endless set of arguments about why they cant. My position holds. Young people that I see in my daily experience have plenty of time to fill out a registration form (10 minutes) and stand in line (1 hour) once a year.
Sorry your college years were so unproductive. I went to an Ivy League college, registered to vote, worked hard at my studies...AND signed up to be a Ward Committeeman for the Democratic Party.
BTW - "the town" outside my major university is...New York City, population 8 million.
NNadir
(33,509 posts)I have spent a long career on the development of major pharmaceuticals. When Magic Johnson appeared on TV to say he was going to survive his HIV infection, I was exceedingly proud of my participation in bringing the drug he was taking to the medical community.
Not all of us were useless. But my experience with my generation is that overall, it's been a disaster of the first order, and is in no position to lecture young people on the issue of responsibility.
The library in which I spend most of my time working is Princeton's although because of their war with Elsevier, I often work in Rutgers' library.
So I am exposed regularly to Ivy League types, and have personally met students and faculty at a number of prestigious universities. Some of them, believe it or not, are not smug assholes with a sense of inherent superiority. Among the Princeton students I know are the kid who grew up across the street, who I've known since he was five and the other kid was my son's best friend, valedictorian of the high school.
Now, as teachers for undergraduates, some Ivy League professors are disinterested; some are not. I would expect that in the latter case, those holding a general contempt for the generation of students they are supposed to mentor are far more prevalent.
I very much doubt that either of these young men I know attending Princeton, should they get over all the hurdles to get academic positions, will hold their students in contempt. They are very fine young men. They would be poor at their roles were they to do so.
As a citizen of New Jersey, I am well acquainted with the streets of New York.
I have never walked those streets noticing a preponderance of drunk Millennials populating them.
One sees what one chooses I suppose.
Happily for me, my son, who really had a wide array of universities to which he would qualify to attend, did not want to apply to schools in major cities. He might have had to work with bored and boring academics, were he to have gone to Columbia or NYU, although, I'm sure both institutions have fine faculty who actually give a shit about the future.
My son's professors are very involved in his professional education, and have, in fact, sent him to Europe on two occasions. I don't think it's because they hold my son's generation in smug contempt.
Have a nice weekend.
brooklynite
(94,452 posts)I pointed out that they appear to have sufficient free time to fill out a voter registration card and show up to vote. And if doing so (and voting in every single election since I turned 18) makes me "superior", I'll take the compliment.
NNadir
(33,509 posts)...about "these kids today."
As an educated academic you are probably aware that language contains both a connotative and denotatative sense.
I have chosen to focus on the connotative sense of the entire thread, which I take as announcement from someone who is obviously in my generation that there's something wrong with kids today.
I chose the connotative sense of your response to my post which explicitly referred to bars.
I have voted in every election in my lifetime as well. Big deal. That point has nothing to do with the connotation here, which drips with contempt for a class of people, young people.
I have spent the last 30 years of my life thinking about the future world I am soon to leave behind.
I did what I could to fight the ignorance that brought us to this point, clearly to no avail. Perhaps not missing elections in my life helped, been down to the level of fire commissioner, but I do know that the demographic that most reliably supports the orange criminal in the White House is mine. The world would be much improved if at least some of the members of my demographic would just shut up and die.
I care about the future in which I will not participate, since I will die soon enough.
I embrace these kids and think them better than us.
BlueWI
(1,736 posts)And thanks for your contributions to the common good.
BlueWI
(1,736 posts)Why are you even attempting to defend this BS reverse ageist line of reasoning?
What did the voting patterns of college age students in 2016 or 2018 have to do with Reaganomics, disastrous wars of choice in the middle east, doubling down on racist domestic policies when the dust settled on the civil Rights movement, or SUVing and beef eating our way to climate disaster?
Do you think Boomer parents had any role in raising entitled millennial children (to the extent that we want to generalize about millennials) or did these entitled children raise themselves?
No older Democrat should be defending the political disasters that brought us from Nixon to Trump. This BS OP is a politically tone deaf fail, and to defend it illustrates why Democrats managed to lose in 2016 to a semi- literate grifter. Thanks to Boomers, this grifter gained enough traction to win the presidency, despite his lengthy record of racist lending, stiffing employees, and running businesses into the ground.
Like Jamaica Kincaid said about colonizers, older generations should be wearing sackcloth and ashes in light of their political failures, not blaming young people who weren't even voting age when the Nixon-Reagan-Bush-Trump mistake began.
brooklynite
(94,452 posts)Elections have consequences. If you don't vote you don't complain.
BlueWI
(1,736 posts)Millennials who didn't vote vs. legions of older voters with decades of life experience who voted for a racist charlatan that brags about grabbing people by the pussy?
Opinions differ, but it's pretty clear to me which group primarily deserves the criticism.
Volunteering has spiked among younger people, and the activism around women's rights, black lives matter, climate action, and sensible gun laws is largely the work of younger people. If us middle aged and older people don't run things into the ground first, younger people will have a very positive impact on governance.
liberalmuse
(18,672 posts)Whats wrong with adults who lived through the Vietnam Nam war and Nixon voting for Trump? These same people have voted in Republican after Republican and have robbed every generation after them of their futures. Boomers expect everyone to clean up their shit, but they took all the shovels and bags. Seriously, I dont want to hear any boomer say a goddamned thing about these kids today. Im a tail end boomer and find most boomers as a collective are selfish, arrogant and all around awful human beings with few exceptions.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)I am SO stealing that.
Locrian
(4,522 posts)but who exactly are parents of a lot of the "younger generation" ?
yep.... Boomers.
Maybe if the boomers had figured out a way to promote progressive values, etc things would be different?
Instead of selling out and blaming everyone else?
dustyscamp
(2,223 posts)We care more about video game creators censoring boobies and violence than Women's right to their bodies. I feel like we are more sheeplike than the older generations and tend to follow and listen to people who have offensively witty things to say. People like Joe Rogan, Ben Shapiro or Donald Trump. Left politicians/celebrities don't get our attention much because their words don't have the zing and crudeness that the other side has so we don't listen to them as often. We tend to only have sympathy and empathy for people who think like us and we tend to think that we are oh so smart and strong. So when one of us tells a sob story about their girlfriends or how certain Dem politicians are liars we believe it much more. Pessimism is very strong with the younger generation.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)What magic fairyland is anyone living in that believes that young people did Jack Shit other than elect Nixon and Reagan TWICE a piece.
Takket
(21,549 posts)mahina
(17,637 posts)Have you marched lately?
Did you see young people?
Do you think sometimes, why don't we all march and protest otherwise more?
It's true that keeping movements together is challenging, especially intergenerational ones. Its possible that our cellphone-centric behavior now has isolated us and in some ways, neutralized us to a degree.
Are there movements of young people that you might consider reaching out to?
I find divide and conquer futile myself. Unite and conquer.
DFW
(54,325 posts)While it is fashionable to say we messed up the world, and the arguments for that standpoint are many and compelling, we also made it comfortable enough that a generation has not coalesced to take to the streets to the point that we did 50 years ago.
Unfortunately, climate change is not happening with rapid jerks and spasms, and crushing student loans create long-term anguish, but not body bags. Republicans have learned from Vietnam, and even Iraq--do NOT start a war with someone who will shoot back--that makes for headlines that will be successfully used against you.
braddy
(3,585 posts)Getting together with all your friends to go and shout hey hey, ho ho, whatever the fuck has got to go! has surprisingly little effect on vote totals, when compared to voting.
Mariana
(14,854 posts)Fla_Democrat
(2,547 posts)Luciferous
(6,078 posts)change protests? And all of the shitty policies that screw us young people came from older people, so maybe we should start asking why those same people who were alive back in the 60's and 70's let the country get this fucked up in the first place!!!
NCLefty
(3,678 posts)We have it too good. Of course, if their friends were dying (as in Vietnam), it might be like that again.
DangerousRhythm
(2,916 posts)The young people I know, millennials and younger, are all too busy with school and two jobs, or more, to pay for that debt to have time to go out and protest anything. Jobs that are shitty and keep them scheduled so poorly that they're going straight from school to their job to maybe crash at home for a few hours before doing it all again. Spare time isn't as easy to come by these days. Were these 60s college kids in debt up to their eyeballs, for the next thirty years, and having to work multiple retail jobs to pay it off?
marlakay
(11,443 posts)New parents 32 were watching impeachment hearing. They turned off because my hubby hates it, but we talked a bit and I told them I watched while hubby in shower (we are in hotel)
But I am glad they care. They agreed with me that it was a sham trial but they were paying attention.
Cicada
(4,533 posts)The youngest 40% of those eligible to vote favor Dems two to one. Those people as they age will wipe out the Republican Party. Not now, but soon. They are not getting conservative as they age. They will get the job done.
Not now, but soon.
Renew Deal
(81,851 posts)NoMoreRepugs
(9,400 posts)to this thread, I appreciate the passion coming from all sides of every part of DU - young, OLD, passive, aggressive and in-between.
Lets all continue to stir the pot - VOTE, DONATE and PARTICIPATE.
Old geezer out.
braddy
(3,585 posts)Thomas Hurt
(13,903 posts)zaj
(3,433 posts)samnsara
(17,613 posts)LakeArenal
(28,809 posts)Even on DU there is no compunction for minimizing and dismissing the elderly.
You folks do it gleefully trying to drive some imaginary wedge between groups.
The joke is... you get old too. Hahaha.
You wont have any SS even though you are paying into it. You wont be able to retire cuz you all raised the retirement age to 75. If you think medical costs are high wait til they keep you alive to 110.
Hahaha. The future youth will be dismissive and rude. The worm doth turn.
Mariana
(14,854 posts)Who is "You folks"? You mean the OP?
whttevrr
(2,345 posts)I've tried to avoid this thread because I do not think I can respond in a civil manner. But, WTF do you expect?
1967-1971? You mean when college almost anywhere was affordable. A house could be bought by one wage earner supporting a family on an average job.
Wow. Your sense of entitlement is without compare. You had the bootstraps handed to you and your generation has taken them away from everyone else. And, you and yours have decimated social security. You've papered it with worthless debt and now want Americans to work even longer before receiving any benefits from it.
Wow. Born in the 50's and got the nerve to ask why someone today doesn't have time to do anything but work two to three jobs to succeed. You've reached the top and pulled the ladder up behind you.
Go back to sleep. The youths don't need your condescension and derisiveness.
Mariana
(14,854 posts)at the thought that the young people won't get Social Security and won't ever be able to retire. Someone who apparently derives joy from thinking about that. "Hahaha." We know Republicans feel that way, but I'm honestly surprised to see such blatant hatred on a Democratic board.
whttevrr
(2,345 posts)There are also 'disruptors' who post here. I try to ignore them.
But every time someone dredges this thread up again, I feel the need to refute what a cliche shit stirring post this actually is. And yet when I say someone is veritably running as a democrat only to garner a nomination and has actual filings to run as an independent simultaneously, my post is deleted as attacking a democrat. Who is not a fucking democrat!
The hypocrisy here is palpable at times.
Thanks for the great post.
Calculating
(2,955 posts)That and we're all depressed as we see the state of the world the boomers have left us. A destroyed climate, resources running out across the world, massive national debt that can never be paid off, huge student loan debts, low wages, the innabilty to ever buy a house, etc. Don't worry though, we'll get right to protesting this horribly corrupt government... maybe.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)I mean, not to put too fine a point on it, the young people today probably noticed that those marches didn't actually shorten the war at all; it went on until they pushed us out of the embassy.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)braddy
(3,585 posts)BlueWI
(1,736 posts)Boomers also put Reagan, Bush, Cheney, Gingrich and Trump in office, put their property values ahead of ending racial discrimination, and rushed to drive SUVs in the midst of the climate crisis.
Let's quit bashing young people for not solving the problems that older voters created.
whttevrr
(2,345 posts)Boomer says: "Not in My Backyard!"
BlueWI
(1,736 posts)And the effects on school funding endure to this day.
whttevrr
(2,345 posts)I should trash this thread. The Boomer generation put Trump in office.
Fuck! Hilary would have been so much better. We could have reduced debt and implemented some kind of fiscal responsibility.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)whttevrr
(2,345 posts)Why did they fuck the generations after them so hard?
Why are they so fucking selfish?
Why won't they raise the cap on Social Security?
Why won't they protect our future?
Kali
(55,006 posts)please forgive if it has already been offered. WTF is wrong with "our" young people? the answer would be: our old people.
ismnotwasm
(41,971 posts)There are thousands and thousands of activists young people, while they are not in the streets as much they are ALWAYS on line. It is their milieu. He are organizing and raising money, whether it be for a particular candidate or a particular cause.
MoonlitKnight
(1,584 posts)Fighting among ourselves while they acquire more power.
We must realize that the Democratic Party is the only functional party remaining. So we have the political spectrum all in our party. The far right wing and Trump cult is in the remnants of the Republican Party. They can only win by dividing or depressing us.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)many consider Global Warming/Climate Change to be the most important issue
Others consider it Civil Rights/LGBTQ rights
Others consider it Racial Inequality
Others consider it Income Inequality
Others consider it Trump
Others consider it Corruption and the GOP
Others consider it kids in cages
Others consider it endless wars overseas
Others consider it abortion and the right to choose.
Others consider it gun control
and, I'm sure I'm missing several other items
There are too many issues that people care about nowadays and not that one over-arching issue like Vietnam.
You can consider it Trump as the over-arching issue, but there is so much scandal, corruption and outrage going on, that NOBODY focuses on any one thing about Trump.;
Fiendish Thingy
(15,568 posts)As the parent of two millennials who has worked with young people for the past 40 years, my sense is their motivations are different.
Instead of being motivated to vote out of fear of how their lives are going to change for the worse, the millennials I know seem to be motivated to vote FOR someone who will tangibly make their lives better. If they dont see an option that will make things better, many consider abstention/staying home a viable option, rather than participate in a system they see as broken and corrupt.
I dont agree with that reasoning, but thats my observation.
Thats why I strongly believe any nominee who promotes policies that will better the lives of everyone, including young people (and not just a return to Status Quo Normalcy) and inspires young people to turn out and vote in significant numbers will guarantee victory in November.
NoMoreRepugs
(9,400 posts)strong emotions, lets turn all of this into VOTES/DONATIONS/PARTICIPATION.