******* Impeachment Live Thread 1 - 1/25 *******

[Mersky]

[Mersky]

1. Benediction and pledge have occurred

[Mersky]

2. Cippy is up and not acting like WH Counsel

Complaining about the amount of time taken by the House manangers

[BumRushDaShow]

3. Thank you for starting this

I just couldn't including because it's THEM



(at least Cippycup acknowledged that they barely had about 2 - 3 hours of a case )

[Mersky]

8. Eh, I want them to know people are watching this farce of a defense

In THEIR kangaroo court

Hi, BRDS! Hope you got some goooood rest!

[BumRushDaShow]

30. Had a few more hours of rest but still haven't caught up yet.

(still up at 4:30 am)

[Mersky]

168. Was super excited to see you in here. Is much appreciated.

Take a nap! Enjoy your weekend!

[BumRushDaShow]

171. Glad to see you guys too!

And definitely should take a nap at some point.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

170. Thanks for the thread and stream links!

I'm debating with myself whether to watch, or just read here.

[Mersky]

173. Yeah, it was awful.

A downer kind of circus with half-inflated balloons and dodgy clowns.

At least that’s over til Monday.

[chowder66]

177. Thank you for doing this today! nt

[hlthe2b]

17. Ditto... I am having trouble even thinking about watching... I'll read the threads for awhile

[BumRushDaShow]

32. I was gonna have the volume down low and read the cc

but wanted to confirm that all they had was talking points.

[ancianita]

4. Aww thank you, Mersky! This will be tough day.

[Mersky]

22. They will be OBNOXIOUS, but their lies and bs shall be revealed

On DU is a start to revealing their ineptitude and complicity

___
You’re so very welcome. Thanks for sharing the load - and it will be a load.

[underpants]

5. Talk about "boring" Cipollone is a real fire cracker isn't he?

[BumRushDaShow]

7. He has to talk real slow to try to have them all reach 2 hours.

[underpants]

51. I know you were joking but it sounds like you're right

This guy is taking looooong pauses like he’s waiting for someone with the rest of report to get there.

[BumRushDaShow]

55. Poop-pura is doing the same thing

they have to extend it out to fill a couple hours.

[Backseat Driver]

82. Purpura

https://www.healthline.com/health/purpura

Bad rash "Purpura, also called blood spots or skin hemorrhages, refers to purple-colored spots that are most recognizable on the skin. The spots may also appear on organs or mucous membranes, including the membranes on the inside of the mouth. Purpura occurs when small blood vessels burst, causing blood to pool under the skin.

https://www.healthline.com/health/purpura#pictures

[BumRushDaShow]

93. LOL

[Mersky]

174. Oh, that's where I've heard that name before

[underpants]

84. That's who I meant

He has also repeated what Cipollone said.

Burden sharing. That’s their big phrase.

[BumRushDaShow]

95. That was filler material

[underpants]

145. I just made this

[BumRushDaShow]

155. DUzy!

[Hermit-The-Prog]

176. I hope you've spread that around. People need laughs!

[BumRushDaShow]

6. WTF is he talking about "burden sharing"?

[avebury]

37. I can't remember who it was, but

somebody on MSNBC had said that the EU has actually done far more for Ukraine than the US.

[BumRushDaShow]

52. Exactly (someone posted that in this thread)

I think that statement about Germany, etc came from that call readout (that they keep calling a "transcript" ) - and it was completely uninformed.

[underpants]

102. Here you go

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/11/13/factcheck-trump-wrong-european-aid-ukraine/4178935002/

President Donald Trump wrongly said that “Europe and other nations” were “not” contributing to Ukraine, specifically calling for Germany and France to “put up money.” In fact, the European Union and European financial institutions have contributed more than $16.4 billion in grants and loans to Ukraine since 2014.

[karynnj]

112. That the EU as well as the US helps Ukraine

They are claiming that we did more on the sanctions. In the Obama years, it WAS Obama, Biden and Kerry who fought for strong sanctions that were harder for our allies than us because they have more trade - especially fuel - from Russia.

However, Trump ignored Congress when it added sanctions on Russia in 2017 and was against them when they passed both houses of Congress. To have the chutzpah to argue that they did more on sanctions than EU is absolutely disingenuous.

[ancianita]

9. Cippy wants to frame this as an ALT-evidence defense AND how dangerous the House is

and how "dire the consequences to America forever and forever" is what the House is doing.

Get ready to unpack the ALT legal, and its ALT arguments.

First up, Germany and how it just talks and never does anything.

[underpants]

20. Guess what, he's wrong

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/11/13/factcheck-trump-wrong-european-aid-ukraine/4178935002/

President Donald Trump wrongly said that “Europe and other nations” were “not” contributing to Ukraine, specifically calling for Germany and France to “put up money.” In fact, the European Union and European financial institutions have contributed more than $16.4 billion in grants and loans to Ukraine since 2014.

[ancianita]

34. The only way to smash this drumbeat claim for the next 10 months is make it part of elevator pitch

politics.

Thanks for the first demolishment of the bullshit. We have to keep it up.

[BumRushDaShow]

10. So now he is going to use the time to insult our allies?

COMPLETELY OFF TOPIC!!!!!!!

[Arkansas Granny]

15. Par for the course. Trump does it all the time.

[BumRushDaShow]

23. ...

[Zoonart]

33. LOL...

Every squirrel in the bag is coming out today.

[Kali]

11. full of shit

OMG

[dweller]

12. they got nuthin ...

it's all the Democrats fault, trying to change the results of an election, to remove fatnixon from the ballot ... blah fn blah

NO DEFENSE AT ALL !

useless 😡

✌🏼

[ancianita]

13. But. We had better listen to it in order to disprove it.

[DonaldsRump]

114. Agreed totally! Will try to listen on the radio and contribute what I can n/t

[ancianita]

117. The radio's a great way to filter out histrionics, but it also deprives one of body/facial language.

[Arthur_Frain]

156. Oddly I feel I get a better sense of the truth listening to the radio.

Not sure why.

[ancianita]

160. I hear you. Listening focuses the senses and thinking.

[malaise]

18. Stunning indeed

now he's turning it over to illustrate what they didn't do

[dem4decades]

14. I'm glad someone is watching just not me.

[Arkansas Granny]

19. I wouldn't miss it.

[dem4decades]

29. You have a much longer fuse than i.

[Arkansas Granny]

41. I'm just curious to find out just what it takes to buy the soul of a Republican Senator

[dem4decades]

47. Not much.

[ancianita]

69. Except this and a lot of dark and foreign money.

[MontanaMama]

66. In all fairness...

they just don’t want their heads on a pike...

[Arkansas Granny]

78. Lol

[dem4decades]

79. And they certainly don't want to hear that they're cowering cowards either.

[Mike 03]

26. But it's not easy.

I'm already getting queasy.

[underpants]

16. Surprise! WRONG. $16.4 BILLION from Europe to Ukraine since 2014

President Donald Trump wrongly said that “Europe and other nations” were “not” contributing to Ukraine, specifically calling for Germany and France to “put up money.” In fact, the European Union and European financial institutions have contributed more than $16.4 billion in grants and loans to Ukraine since 2014.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/11/13/factcheck-trump-wrong-european-aid-ukraine/4178935002/

[Arkansas Granny]

21. +1

[malaise]

24. The President's side was not locked out you lying sleazeball

[Mike 03]

28. This is hard to take.

[malaise]

31. IT is Dems who are trying to steal the election

[oasis]

39. Cip is doubling down on a blatant lie.

[live love laugh]

25. "They repeat over and over again..." as he says burden sharing

and “24 hours” for the tenth time.

[underpants]

56. Now it's 21 hours. I lost count how many times this guy's said it.

[live love laugh]

67. Yeah I heard that shift to 21 hours too. nt

[underpants]

27. Ask yourself, Why haven't I heard this before?

That means whacked RW talking points and lies.

[liberal N proud]

35. They blocked evidence then claim Democrats don't have it

What a sham

[uponit7771]

48. +1, the judicial system is lacking on this issue. It shouldn't take 123432 years to get a ruling ...

... during an official impeachment process when the president proffers utter stupidity like Red Don has done.

[ancianita]

81. Legal gaslighting is what it's called.

[NotASurfer]

129. Tre rebuttal time that is "see article 2 re Obstruction "

And maybe "thank you for helping to make the point on the Obstruction article"

[superpatriotman]

36. "Essence..."

Next.

[spanone]

38. Let the Lies Begin....

[Kali]

40. what a moron

playing Schiff SAYING he was characterizing what dump said/did

[uponit7771]

42. lol ... they gonna show Wonderful World Of Gumball next ?! Cause we can't tell that's a cartoon 🙄🙄

[Mike 03]

43. Oh no, they are dredging up Adam Schiff's satirical interpretation of the

phone call.

[BumRushDaShow]

44. Poop-pura played Schiff's clip about the mob shakedown

and it WAS a shake down. They can't possible dispute that.

They apparently had no idea that the House Managers were going to use almost 24 hours of time to actually introduce evidence so they figured they didn't have to "prepare".

And what they are calling a "transcript" is not a "transcript" - it's a highly edited "readout/call memo".

[live love laugh]

63. I wish Dems had driven this point home. nt

[BumRushDaShow]

88. I watched the Democrats' presentation gavel to gavel

and it WAS driven home. In every which way they could. That put the GOP on the defensive to somehow try to refute the mob-like atmosphere given all the mentions of Ghouliani and his shady role along with Parnas and Furman and all the other mob "associates". And now that call audio is out there with Drumpf yelling "take her out".

[ancianita]

103. Agree. I watched that, too.

[live love laugh]

118. I'm talking about the language itself

In one fell swoop they are back to “the transcript”. I’m only saying that every time they mentioned the “readout” it would have helped to add some thing like “...which was not an actual transcript”...

[ancianita]

45. The full breadth and scope of this argument will be behind the next 10 months of Republican message

We have to dismantle it, point by point.

This isn't mere groundling cult thinking; it's formulated all the way up to the federal level.

This has to be addressed as at least part of the Democrats' election messaging.

[karynnj]

46. The first two speakers have spoken of the REAL TRANSCRIPT -- but they NEVER gave us a transcript

A transcript would have every word said - unless they were redacted. What we got was a Trump administration put out were their version of meeting notes. The length of them would not have covered the full time.

[BumRushDaShow]

62. I don't think they have the real one either

otherwise they would have distributed it far and wide if it exonerated him.

[karynnj]

100. If they have a tape, they do - they seem to prefer having their version CALLED a transcript

I think they are trying very hard to convince at least those who might vote Republican that the case was rigged by the Democrats. To do this, they are cherry picking their own created meeting notes. It tells me they are somewhat aware that the Democratic case was compelling because calling something a transcript - when it absolutely is not - and then using that it was a transcript to argue that it itself is the true record.

The even bigger thing they are doing is burying the many months of acting against the ambassador. The current speaker even rehabilitated the corrupt Ukrainian prosecutor that the EU, US et al wanted out, praising him as good. Both of them are arguing that Trump did more than Europe and Obama respectively.

I think the reason for their relatively short time is because - as they said - the burden of proof is on the Democrats. It seems like they are not even trying to prove anything - just to create doubt enough to allow Republicans to say that it is "unclear" or "not certain" that Trump did anything wrong.

Knowing that they control if Trump is ousted - and he won't be, there entire goal is to convince the public of two things - Trump did nothing wrong here and the Democrats are doing this for political reasons because they hate Trump.

[BumRushDaShow]

126. From what I understand

(and although I obviously don't work in the WH but did work in a federal agency) the "recordings" are usually digital. And the issue in this case was that the recording file was "moved" to a highly classified "server" (probably a special encrypted cloud space) and an electronic copy of what was transcribed (which had to include translations between the parties) was stored there as well. I think Vindman had testified that he had seen the raw translated transcript and he along with others on their NS team (as part of a group effort) recommended additions/subtractions/modifications - probably doing it with M$ Word and its "track changes" feature). Once someone above them "approved" the changes, it was apparently redistributed to the team and I think that's when Vindman said he noticed that his edits were not included.

So what eventually got released was basically a "redacted" (without the traditional "redaction" blackout) of the call - where there were ellipses throughout it indicating gaps of conversations.

And regarding everything else - there is nothing they can "bury". Their talking points have been debunked in the media and yes, all they can do is try to sow "doubt" in the Democrats' case. But there was so much in the case (to the point where people were whining about it being "repetitive and boring", that attempts to sow doubt can never reach every piece of evidence that was presented.

And agree that what you said is their goal but it seems every day, more and more comes out to completely blow them away.

[DeminPennswoods]

161. I was under the impression the calls are NOT recorded,

(at least on the US end) but there are a bunch of people listening in and taking notes. Then a "transcript" is written and passed around for comments, additions, etc. Vindman said the things he suggested adding/changing were not used.

[ancianita]

115. They have both the secret server and original transcript in Russian control.

[Satch59]

49. They are accusing Dems of election interference...

That’s rich... defies logic that they can prove he did nothing wrong...will be comical.

[bullwinkle428]

50. So it's all about "TRANSCRIPT TRANSCRIPT TRANSCRIPT", which is a COMPLETE lie,

as no one outside of Chumpworld has seen the actual transcript; only a summary of the call. Which in and of itself, is indicting.

[underpants]

64. "Burden sharing"

They must be really proud of that phrase.

[bullwinkle428]

70. If anyone is using that phrase as part of a drinking game, I hope the ambulance is

waiting right outside their door!

[underpants]

106. If the Trumpsters are hearing "bourbon sharing"

There’s going to a long line at the package stores when they open.

[Mersky]

53. pupura cut himself off with the start of playing the first clip of Schiff.

And will use the word “fake” as cover for his lack of preparedness. He doesn’t really need to be prepared when tRump has blocked all cooperation of witnesses. Thank goodness some of the witnesses defied tRump’s orders and appeared for testimony.

[IggleDuer]

54. "might as well tear up the ballots"

The ballots are already printed out? Whose name is on the ballots? Has the Democratic nominee already been decided? Sounds like the Repubicans have already rigged the election.

[spanone]

57. 'A Basement Bunker' another lyin' MF

[malaise]

59. The transcript was not released either

Lying liars

[ancianita]

86. Schiff prebutted these two points yesterday. And here they are ANYWAY.

[malaise]

91. Facts are stubborn things

By the way, I'm just learning that you can have two completely different sets of facts. I guess they really believe this alternative facts shit.

[ancianita]

96. I hear you. They've got alt-science and alt-reality and are ready to go all in on the 17th Century.

All that winning and making America great.

The fascist reality -- religion, law, science, culture and all the 'isms' that go with them -- is strong with this group.

[malaise]

101. So is ignorance - they own that

[ancianita]

107. They disagree.They own "alt-intelligence."Our labels for them roll off authoritarian followers' back

s

[Arkansas Granny]

119. What is their preoccupation with basements?

Didn't they make a big deal out of Hillary's server being in the basement? They also claimed she was operating a child sex ring out of the basement of a pizza joint.

[Mike 03]

58. This is a TERRIBLE legal argument but how many people will

realize how bad it is?

It's an 'absence-of-evidence' argument. He's pointing out what didn't happen instead of admitting what did happen.

[underpants]

73. This is a glossy (they think) presentation heard on Fox News

Uh Oh OBAMA!!!!

Only took 33 minutes

[BumRushDaShow]

76. Saturday is the least television-watching day of the week.

I expect that even most of their base aren't watching because that kind expects that their "leaders" will "take care of it" for them.

[ancianita]

113. It'll take 1,000s of lawyers' joint deposition to disprove this to millions of this "ALT" mentality

We're in lawyers wars.

Only those who can out-argue these guys can change this hyperrationalizing mindset in the halls of power. Because, right now, it dominates, however it's seen outside the White House or beltway.

[snowybirdie]

60. It only took

20 minutes to blame Obama for something.

[uponit7771]

65. +1, they aren't even trying ... f ck it ... they might as well read all of Trumps tweets that would

... be better spent time.

[C_U_L8R]

72. They're getting paid by the hour

Win or lose.

[uponit7771]

92. ah ... got it

[underpants]

136. Yeah. A check from Trump.

Don't hold their breath waiting on that.

[uponit7771]

61. So this is a bunch of Trump talking points that they add details to?! Might as well showed Gumball !

[underpants]

68. So he's repeating what Cipollone said 20 minutes ago?

I will repost this

President Donald Trump wrongly said that “Europe and other nations” were “not” contributing to Ukraine, specifically calling for Germany and France to “put up money.” In fact, the European Union and European financial institutions have contributed more than $16.4 billion in grants and loans to Ukraine since 2014.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/11/13/factcheck-trump-wrong-european-aid-ukraine/4178935002/

[uponit7771]

94. They only taking 2 - 3 hours, what is Monday going to look like ?!

[Mersky]

71. Whoa. Is some lying crap: tRump didn't do an unprecedented thing declassifying the call

The only reason the call was declassified was because he got caught - and it was improperly classified to begin with! NSC legal counsel, Eisenberg, copped to Morrison that it was a mistake.

[underpants]

80. Nancy let him think releasing it would end the whole thing.

She didn’t say anything of the kind from what we know but Trump convinced himself that she did.

Self played!!!

[Mersky]

99. Lol. I'd forgotten that

Was shrewd.

But then pupura just had to use his tone to say that tRump did us a grand favor. Was like a parent commending a kid for removing his fork from his brother’s leg and just letting the one bleed. The fork shouldn’t have been in his leg in the first place and take care of the bleeder, dammit!

[underpants]

111. The press has killed that part of the timeline too

Trump handed himself his own ass.

[Mersky]

169. True. And, lol.

He is grabby.

[underpants]

74. OBAMA. Only took 33 minutes.

[MontanaMama]

85. We should have had a betting pool on

how long it would take. I’m kinda surprised it look 33 minutes.

[underpants]

90. Got to keep the Fox News crowd happy

Let’s call it their ....uh....burden sharing

[Arkansas Granny]

75. So they are going to insist that the transcript deals with corruption even though corruption was

never mentioned.

[5X]

77. Fitting that their graphics are in yellow.

[robbob]

83. He's reading Adam Schiff's closing summation!

It’s like he took bullet point crib notes from last nights closing summation! “And then they’re going to tell you the President wasn’t given an opportunity to defend himself...”.

Luckily for tRump the GOPeers have already forgotten all the evidence from the last 3 days, including the closing summation, and weren’t really listening anyway, since they already know how they’re going to vote.

[Pachamama]

87. What a bunch of BS - trying to claim that the conversation of 7/25 w/ Zelensky about

...assistance with Javelins prove that it wasn’t about the withholding of military assistance.

Guess they are forgetting to mention that the Ukrainians got the Javelins with the conditions they actually couldn’t use them on tanks. And that shortly after Trump had the military assistance frozen.

Wow - they are sleazy liars.

https://www.businessinsider.de/international/republicans-leaving-out-key-detail-trump-javelin-sale-to-ukraine-2019-11/?r=US&IR=T

https://crooksandliars.com/2019/11/us-requires-ukraine-keep-javelins-100s

[underpants]

97. The Javelins are still in storage

There is a level of security required and the Ukraine can’t meet those standards.

It’s a requirement of the manufacturer and so we don’t pay for weapons that end up in enemy hands.

[BumRushDaShow]

104. They are still ignoring the "Do us a favor though..."

THAT was the take-away of that call. :

(but that is too damaging and they have nothing to refute it except to cherry-pick people who were clueless as to what was going on)

[Mersky]

89. Call your senators and tell them you know how false/insulting the republican defense is this morning

And we’re just 35 minutes in!

[Kali]

98. what do the body language readers say about all that tongue thrusting?

[Mersky]

109. Used crushed ritalin like sugar in his morning coffee?

Is speedy - careening through his barrage of garbage

[Kali]

125. bet the boss is tripping too

[Mersky]

148. Just had to check on that

He’s been relatively quiet, BUT he retweeted live coverage of the opening arguments and then deleted it! Ha. Hahahahaha.

[Kali]

165. BWAHAHAHA!!!

I got the first hour, gotta go to a real funeral now. will catch the recording or threads later. have fun!

[Mersky]

172. Oh hey, that's rough.

I give you my sympathies (not sure I could handle such today), and hope you’re real kind to yourself as best you can this weekend.

Thanks for being in here this morning.

[Iliyah]

105. I'll bet that all 53 assholes are there . . .

I'll also bet that the Democrats are silently laughing. . .

[Pachamama]

110. Now 53 traitorous self serving assholes are staying in their seats listening and taking notes

[dem4decades]

127. I'm surprised, they already have their talking points.

[ancianita]

163. So do the Democrats, particularly those running for the presidency.

[dem4decades]

166. What does that mean? The Democrats are based on fact, not so much with the Republicans.

[ancianita]

167. Oops. Misunderstood your post. Sorry. Now I get it.

[in2herbs]

108. At 5 minutes in my blood was already at the boiling point but I will listen to all of their

lies if for no other reason than its historical importance. Haven't viewed Rachel's show from last night but I wonder if it will be in any discussion today.

[underpants]

116. Okay. Hold it. They're using the "hearsay/no facts" testimonies from Schiff's hearings???

The right wing has been saying this for a month. Now THEY are using THAT testimony in their defense?!?!

[ancianita]

121. Of course. They're the originators of those lines.

[Mersky]

122. Is infuriating: Zeroing-in on Sondland as hearsay

Never mind the texts, never mind the other fact witnesses, like Taylor and Hill’s calling Sondland as being on a “domestic political errand.”

Never mind that BOLTON comes up across much of their links to the scheme and he should be SUBPOENAED to appear in the Senate trial*

[ancianita]

138. Power & deals for them, hearsay for Americans. "What you are seeing and reading is not what's happen

ing

[BumRushDaShow]

120. Suckylow up.

Mueller report - and THAT is completely irrelevant to this impeachment trial dumbass.

[underpants]

131. A little dab will do ya

[JohnQFunk]

123. Cippolone is very low energy. Bigly. And now...

Sekulow is going to whip out "Crossfire Hurricane" like a severed head from a duffel bag.

[Mossfern]

124. Bottom line

The White House produced no documents and subpoenas were not responded to.

Cherry picking from the Muller report.

[underpants]

128. Trump had a blanket order IN WRITING

and specifically sent additional letters to 6 people to ignore subpoenas

[ancianita]

140. Documents that Democrats have in hand?

[Mersky]

130. And but for the pResident's obstruction and an attorney general as cleaner

The Mueller report might have had real teeth.

As Schiff said last night you can’t have Article I, without Article II. Meaning you can’t get to bottom of abuses of power/crimes when the offender in question can block the investigators.

[Arkansas Granny]

132. Now trying out the election interference by Ukraine theory.

[underpants]

135. He called the FBI liars and that they hid information a few minutes ago

I think that's what he said.

[ancianita]

146. According to inspector generals, not so.

Continuing to impugn the greatest standing law enforcement body is treason, except when you want to end law enforcement in a nation of law, in order to force into existence a nation of men -- loyalists like these fake lawyers.

[Kali]

133. so unoriginal, no creativity.

the usual - deflect, project and lie.

[underpants]

134. Suckitup got lost in his own argument there

The meeting that didn't happen but then it did happen

[Mersky]

137. Who was he talking about? I heard Laura Crap, then I heard Laura Cooper a little further

[nolabear]

144. I had to figure out Borysenko too.

[dweller]

139. listening to suckitup

and i have this image of a pinball careening around in his brain ...
is there a valid point there?
cause i don't get it ..

✌🏼

[uponit7771]

142. +1, they might as well just read Trump tweets ... they make more sense and that says something

[Mossfern]

141. I'm having difficulty

following his argument.

[Mersky]

153. Is the 'throw it at the wall and see what sticks' defense

So, I’m right there with you. It’s a salad of potential talking points.

[nolabear]

143. Okay I just got here (West Coast). WTF is Sekulow on about?

I’ve heard Carter Page, FISA, Ukraine corruption...is this the right room?

Has it all been like this?

[Mossfern]

147. It seems to have been like this

[nolabear]

149. El Salvador? Lebanon? OIC. It was a BUSINESS deal!

Are they going to use this excuse? Of course they are.

[underpants]

150. Oh we just got a Biden reference

Yes it's been a mess. They are using the "hearsay/no facts" testimonies from the Schiff hearings as part of their defense. At least the second guy did.

Suckitup is going full conspiracy theory.

Oh and "burden sharing"

[Mersky]

175. Bwah!

[DeminPennswoods]

151. TBH, the WH lawyers are doing enough to give

cover to the R senators who plan to vote not to convict Trump and those who want to believe Trump.

I'm kind of surprised the WH lawyers are actually trying to present a semblence of a defense and not just galloping off on CTs and other craziness.

[madaboutharry]

152. Sekulow is all over the place.

It seems like he is reading off an outline of talking points rather than a well crafted legal argument.

Listing instances of holds on foreign aid is a false argument. Foreign aid can be held back for legitimate reasons, but not for the personal and political benefit of the president.

[underpants]

154. "Only one President....Since 2014...has taken effective steps"

Uh, how many Presidents have there BEEN since 2014?

[madaboutharry]

159. President Obama was president in 2014.

So I guess it was just a way of making a gratuitous slight against Obama.

[BumRushDaShow]

157. He's done his completely offtopic nonsenical argument - now to Pat Philbin

[C_U_L8R]

158. When do they bring on Whackadoodle Jordan

and Alan Underpants Dershowitz?
I'm hankering some Saturday morning cartoon.

[underpants]

164. Hey hey hey

Okay I'll let that one pass

[Mersky]

162. ****** LIVE THREAD 2 is UP *******

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212908886