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Sat Jan 25, 2020, 11:30 AM

John Roberts comes face to face with the mess he made

John Roberts comes face to face with the mess he made
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/01/23/john-roberts-comes-face-face-with-mess-he-made/

There is justice in John Roberts being forced to preside silently over the impeachment trial of President Trump, hour after hour, day after tedious day.

<<snip>>

Robertsís captivity is entirely fitting: He is forced to witness, with his own eyes, the mess he and his colleagues on the Supreme Court have made of the U.S. political system. As representatives of all three branches of government attend this unhappy family reunion, the living consequences of the Roberts Courtís decisions, and their corrosive effect on democracy, are plain to see.

Ten years to the day before Trumpís impeachment trial began, the Supreme Court released its Citizens United decision, plunging the country into the era of super PACs and unlimited, unregulated, secret campaign money from billionaires and foreign interests. Citizens United, and the resulting rise of the super PAC, led directly to this impeachment. The two Rudy Giuliani associates engaged in key abuses ó the ouster of the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, the attempts to force Ukraineís president to announce investigations into Trumpís political opponents ó gained access to Trump by funneling money from a Ukrainian oligarch to the presidentís super PAC.

The Roberts Courtís decisions led to this moment in indirect ways, as well. The courtís 2013 ruling in Shelby County gutted the Voting Rights Act and spurred a new wave of voter suppression. The decision in 2014′s McCutcheon further surrendered campaign finance to the wealthiest. The 2018 Janus decision hobbled the ability of labor unions to counter wealthy donors, while the 2019 Rucho ruling blessed partisan gerrymandering, expanding anti-democratic tendencies.

<<snip>>

Now, we are in a crisis of democratic legitimacy: A president who has plainly abused his office and broken the law, a legislature too paralyzed to do anything about it ó and a chief justice coming face to face with the system he broke.

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Arrow 55 replies Author Time Post
Reply John Roberts comes face to face with the mess he made (Original post)
dajoki Jan 2020 OP
MontanaMama Jan 2020 #1
Mickju Jan 2020 #3
rurallib Jan 2020 #5
DanieRains Jan 2020 #24
certainot Jan 2020 #40
Ligyron Jan 2020 #48
usaf-vet Jan 2020 #30
certainot Jan 2020 #41
CrispyQ Jan 2020 #42
certainot Jan 2020 #45
uponit7771 Jan 2020 #39
PatrickforO Jan 2020 #53
tavernier Jan 2020 #2
malaise Jan 2020 #4
nuxvomica Jan 2020 #6
The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2020 #7
in2herbs Jan 2020 #8
Boomerproud Jan 2020 #10
The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2020 #11
MoonlitKnight Jan 2020 #35
The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2020 #36
material_highlighter Jan 2020 #51
JHB Jan 2020 #28
TryLogic Jan 2020 #15
empedocles Jan 2020 #9
lark Jan 2020 #12
material_highlighter Jan 2020 #52
lark Jan 2020 #55
BumRushDaShow Jan 2020 #13
world wide wally Jan 2020 #14
Mopar151 Jan 2020 #25
ancianita Jan 2020 #16
dajoki Jan 2020 #18
ancianita Jan 2020 #21
dajoki Jan 2020 #33
malaise Jan 2020 #19
ancianita Jan 2020 #22
RANDYWILDMAN Jan 2020 #34
KY_EnviroGuy Jan 2020 #17
NRaleighLiberal Jan 2020 #20
Doc_Technical Jan 2020 #23
llmart Jan 2020 #44
FakeNoose Jan 2020 #26
moondust Jan 2020 #27
shockey80 Jan 2020 #29
zentrum Jan 2020 #31
Ilsa Jan 2020 #32
calimary Jan 2020 #37
Politicub Jan 2020 #38
patphil Jan 2020 #43
Autumn Jan 2020 #46
Wednesdays Jan 2020 #47
Ligyron Jan 2020 #49
dajoki Jan 2020 #54
Upward Jan 2020 #50

Response to dajoki (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 11:34 AM

1. Do you think CJR even recognizes this?

Iím not convinced he does.

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Response to MontanaMama (Reply #1)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 11:41 AM

3. Right wingers see only what they want to see.

Always

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Response to MontanaMama (Reply #1)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 11:43 AM

5. no. but even if he did I doubt he would care.

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Response to rurallib (Reply #5)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:18 PM

24. Corporate America Is Kicking Ass

Only thing he cares about.

To hell with us or the planet.

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Response to DanieRains (Reply #24)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 02:46 PM

40. he's a corporate hack but citizens united is a distraction from a greater problem

he thinks like most cons - money is free speech and corporations are people. their reality has been shaped by 30 years of repetition of that crap on talk radio and then fox

if talking money in politics progressives and analysts always ignore republican talk radio which if they would pay $1000/hr x 15hrs/day x 1200 radio stations is worth about $5BIL/yr selling the pretext for citizens united, the supremes to pass it, voter suppression legislation based on lies about 'illegal' aliens voting for dems, global warming denial, and so on

that is why we're in this mess- cit united, global warming, media consolidation, and trump

and even though it's the only real advantage republicans have, and the biggest impediment to real democracy, it is completely ignored by those most negatively impacted by it

americans need to get ready to get in the streets when they vote 51-49 for no witnesses

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Response to certainot (Reply #40)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 08:12 PM

48. Once again, right as usual.

Something is planned for Wednesday I think.

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Response to MontanaMama (Reply #1)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:39 PM

30. He lives in a bubble. He would have no reason to care about the day to day mess the rest of us face.

Some historians will hopefully plagiarise these snippets from this OP post. {https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212908512}

Citizens United, and the resulting rise of the super PAC, led directly to this impeachment.

The Roberts Courtís decisions led to this moment in indirect ways, as well.
The courtís 2013 ruling in Shelby County gutted the Voting Rights Act and spurred a new wave of voter suppression.
The decision in 2014′s McCutcheon further surrendered campaign finance to the wealthiest.
The 2018 Janus decision hobbled the ability of labor unions to counter wealthy donors.
The 2019 Rucho ruling blessed partisan gerrymandering, expanding anti-democratic tendencies.


Nice summary: MM

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Response to usaf-vet (Reply #30)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 02:59 PM

41. at $1000 /per hr talk radio is worth $5 bil/year, and largely why this shit got passed

if talking money in politics progressives and analysts always ignore republican talk radio which if they would pay $1000/hr x 15hrs/day x 1200 radio stations is worth about $5BIL/yr selling the pretext for citizens united, the supremes to pass it, voter suppression legislation based on lies about 'illegal' aliens voting for dems, global warming denial, and so on

shiff and co did a great job except for missing the opportunity to say "trumps whole defense came out of limbaugh's ass" or "that's what limbaugh said over and over but it's not true" something to that effect.

there is a giant pile of shit under the senate rug. the cons know how important limbaugh was in establishing their alternate reality, keeping them in power, intimidating them, attacking their opponents, and passing their undemocratic crap and all dems have to do to is finally acknowledge it and put limbaugh in front as their real leader and 'genius' liar/mentor.

until democrats stop ignoring talk radio that corporate crap is going to continue.

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Response to certainot (Reply #41)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 04:06 PM

42. Soros just gave a billion dollars to fund universities to "stop drift towards authoritarianism."

Too bad he didn't buy up a few radio stations instead, & hire some top notch writing talent to challenge the hate and misinformation that blankets rural America. You are right, until democrats stop ignoring talk radio nothing will change. I don't think they even see it as a problem.

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Response to CrispyQ (Reply #42)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 04:59 PM

45. it's like studying fish without the water - can't identify the real problem

and no one with a brain wants to listen to that bile

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Response to MontanaMama (Reply #1)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 02:39 PM

39. No, he's like James Comey; still rationalizing it to himself but wont admit any wrong doing

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Response to MontanaMama (Reply #1)

Sun Jan 26, 2020, 01:28 AM

53. Yeah, sadly, I tend to think he doesn't recognize the damage he's done.

Or maybe he thinks what is going on now is good in some way, perhaps hastening the apocalypse. Heck, some of these bible thumpers are probably convinced that Citizens United has brought that day of rapture that much closer.

Ten years. It only took ten years for this nation to become a fascist oligarchy, where corporations are people and dollars are 'free speech.'

Ten years.

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Response to dajoki (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 11:36 AM

2. Wow.

He wonít see it that way, but clearly that is exactly what has happened.

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Response to dajoki (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 11:42 AM

4. MUST READ

Rec

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Response to dajoki (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 11:45 AM

6. I was saying the same to a colleague the other day

Specifically, how ironic it was that the guy who pushed Citizen's United with his special session, inviting foreign and dark money influence, now presides over the impeachment of a rogue presidency he made possible. What the hell did he think would happen once he opened that cellar door?

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Response to dajoki (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 11:54 AM

7. Interesting analysis. There are always unintended consequences,

and I don't think the court expected a clusterfuck quite like this one as a consequence of letting unaccountable money into elections.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #7)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:07 PM

8. There were plenty of D congresspersons who spoke about the "unintended consequences" in

the CU decision. There was also credible reporting on its unintended consequences. If CJR was disturbed by the possibility of these unintended consequences he could have taken the matter up for reconsideration at some time during this past 10 years. CJR has proven he is educated but not smart. The only other conclusion is that his CU decision has accomplished exactly what he and the others on the court intended.

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Response to in2herbs (Reply #8)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:14 PM

10. Your last sentence said it all

I have nothing better to add. Goodnight America how are ya.

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Response to in2herbs (Reply #8)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:17 PM

11. True, but I don't think anybody expected the likes of Trump.

Kind of like the Spanish Inquisition. But a corrupted political system makes corrupt politicians more likely and they should have thought of that, though I don't think they knowingly intended that result. Appellate courts tend to live in their own serene little world where shit doesn't stick to them.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #11)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 02:17 PM

35. The founders expected the likes of Trump

Just failed to expect the Senate would be complicit.

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Response to MoonlitKnight (Reply #35)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 02:23 PM

36. I think they anticipated the possibility of a corrupt or unsuitable president,

and we've already had a few of those (none of whom were removed from office, and only one was likely to have been removed). I really don't think anybody ever imagined that someone as obviously horrible as Trump could have been elected, though. And they obviously assumed that the legislative branch, intended as a counterweight to the executive, would do its job. What they didn't expect (like the Spanish Inquisition) was the sort of toxic populism that would infect enough voters that the legislative branch would be afraid to do its constitutional duty.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #36)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 10:58 PM

51. but they did,

 

when you read the Federalist Papers (FP) & more importantly the Anti-Federalist Papers (AFP) along with the constitutional convention debate (CCD) notes it is clear Mr. Trump was exactly what SOME of the framers feared.

Cato V, an AFP, directly predicts a Trump presidency. It points to the flaws of the proposed Constitution but also human nature.

during the CCD, on June 1st, Mr. Edmund Randolph, "strenuously opposed a unity in the Executive magistracy. He regarded it as the fetus of monarchy."

and while populism wasn't quite a robust concept back in the 1700's many framers still feared the power of a direct democracy pertaining to the election of the president, on July 17, the CCD was focused on the election of the executive. George Mason was opposed to a popular vote, "He conceived it would be as unnatural to refer the choice of a proper character for chief Magistrate to the people, as it would, to refer a trial of colours to a blind man." that's right Mason said, letting the people vote for president would be like letting a blind man vote on colors.


https://www.constitution.org/afp/cato_05.htm

http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/documents/1786-1800/the-anti-federalist-papers/debate-of-executive-power-(june-1).php

http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/documents/1786-1800/the-anti-federalist-papers/election-and-term-of-office-of-the-national-executive-(july-17-19).php

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Response to in2herbs (Reply #8)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:29 PM

28. The only unintended consequence was who would be best able...

...take advantage of the New Rules.

Every other aspect is unfolding precisely as he intended.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #7)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:36 PM

15. "consequence of letting unaccountable money into elections."

What the hell did people expect?

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Response to dajoki (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:11 PM

9. It appears that JR has serious, difficult, personal conflicts: keeping personal distance,

yet not being accused of being vacant at the trial, saving reprimands for further use in the trial, yet keeping SCOTUS away from the politics of the trial/case/trump, politics in general, JR personal reputation, Dred Scott Chief Justice Taney legacy, JR legacy.

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

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Response to dajoki (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:22 PM

12. He and Russian Repug SCOTUS oligarchs are in the process of shredding our constitution - on purpose.

This isn't an accident, the rw oligarchs have been actively working for this for decades, probably since the 20's when they lost a lot of power. Roberts is nothing but a rw man, and he lies about caring about the constitution - he doesn't. That's why they put a hold on, and are now slow walking all the document requests so everything is hidden until the election. They they will rule he's above the law & the constitution doesn't mean what it says and they will shred it to pieces. There will be no fair elections, they will be rigged by the richest man in the world to destroy our country and help his. Russian Repugs are too stupid to realize their children will inherit this country - they think russia will let them continue to rule & personally profit - but russia will destroy them after they have fucked us over and taken our place as the preeminent world power.

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Response to lark (Reply #12)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 11:05 PM

52. yes,

 

the DOJ sequestering the Cater Page FISA warrant Intel is likely because they don't want nosey Ned's finding out just what information the FBI had gained from its surveillance of Page.

AG Bill Barr is actively destroying or hiding all evidence of the Trunp/Russia collusion he can. Why? not because Barr gives a hoot about Mr. Trump pre se, but it jeopardizes the entire scheme the GOP has with their oligarch partners in Russia.

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Response to material_highlighter (Reply #52)

Sun Jan 26, 2020, 10:27 AM

55. Ding, ding, ding.

Everyone probably hates drumpf personally, but uses him because he advances the rw dictatorship they've been trying to implement here since the 1920's.

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Response to dajoki (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:24 PM

13. Absolutely true.

They started building toward this decades ago and Citizen's United unleashed the avalanche that eventually produced a Senate full of GOP teabagger loons. In fact, even the annoying conservatives had to go full-on loon or get primaried (see Hatch after he watched his cohort Bennett lose a primary to Mike Lee and the main reason why Romney is there in Hatch's old seat is due to his own $$$$$$ to secure that win). And the more extreme their side became, the more our side wanted people to fight back, which meant going extreme as well - and thus the divide that the media loves to tout and that they helped to fuel.

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Response to dajoki (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:25 PM

14. It's so hard to fathom how America surrendered to the blithering idiot.

We were able to defeat the most powerful armies, and most sinister villains the world had ever seen up until the dotard came along.

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Response to world wide wally (Reply #14)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:21 PM

25. The Tangerine Taint Tumor is a trailing indicator.

Preceded by decades of funny business from the BFEE and their cohorts. I:E, Ollie North was a leading indicator in these matters

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Response to dajoki (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:43 PM

16. Almost all Americans don't know the mess John Roberts made. They think it's about this trial. NO.



"John-the-Pirate" Roberts made this mess back in 2000 in Gore v Bush.

Flown in by the two Bush brothers' bad boys, Roberts literally TRAINED the Bush legal team to BEG SCOTUS to override the Supreme Court of Florida ruling to have a complete state recount.

John Roberts knew that if they used the arguments he trained them to use, that Rehnquist and Sandra Day O'Connor -- enraged Federalist Society conservatives -- would chomp at the chance to keep the pro-Bush count as it was.

And so they did. They OVERRULED A STATE SUPREME COURT. But it was a split.

BUT. When the real vote count continued, and it was found that AFTER THE SCOTUS INTERFERENCE WITH THE FLORIDA COUNT, THAT GORE ACTUALLY DID WIN.

Bush, once inaugurated, rewarded John Roberts by
a) nominating him to the Supreme Court, and
b) making him Chief Justice.

If John Roberts, Jeb Bush and GWBush had respected Florida's Supreme Court ruling, we wouldn't be going through this today.

We'd also be ahead of the climate crisis with an already established green new deal; we'd have clean energy utilities; there would have been NO 9/11 and bank bailouts; and there would be so many other good things that would make all Americans healthier and economically well off. Plus high speed rail.

John Roberts -- sitting there in all his fake humility that covers his shame, has made that mess.

Every single American should know what he did.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #16)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:47 PM

18. roberts wasn't on scotus...

in 2000, but he would have done the same thing anyway.

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Response to dajoki (Reply #18)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:07 PM

21. Doesn't matter. He was material cause of the legal success of the Bush boyz who couldn't have done

it without him.

He, not they, won the Gore v Bush case and wrecked a perfectly good state supreme court ruling.

Bad ruling from SCOTUS can sometimes be overcome.

This one changed American elections and history for the worse.

Where we are today is more his doing than anyone else's.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #21)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 02:03 PM

33. This is where we've been heading...

for over half a century. SCOTUS put Bush in place, Bush put Roberts in place. Of course it goes back before nixon, they know they are being overwhelmed demographically so they are doing everything to consolidate their power. That's why we have these "unitary executive" nuts, that's why we have voter suppression, gerrymandering, purges etc. They won't give it up without a fight.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #16)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:55 PM

19. This should be an OP

Great post

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Response to malaise (Reply #19)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:07 PM

22. Okay. I'll give it a twirl.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #16)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 02:12 PM

34. Dred pirate Roberts

Does not care. He choose party over country long ago

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Response to dajoki (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:44 PM

17. K&R. Sadly, most of Robert's cats can't be put back in the bag.

Once the power of unregulated money and influence from global plutocrats gets entrenched, it's almost impossible to reverse the effects. And, it's getting worse with the slow, creeping increase in global economic inequality with time.

No better proof than the long term effects of Murdoch's News Corp. for the last 30 or so years on the entire planet, big oil's influence on environmental control deregulation, big ag's destruction of small farmers, or monster retail's destruction of our small community's vibe and vitality, just to name a few.

KY rant done......

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Response to dajoki (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:59 PM

20. what value exactly is he adding to the farce?

I am not watching or listening to the event.

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Response to dajoki (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:16 PM

23. Chief Justice Roberts is either a jerk or an idiot



I don't think he is an idiot.

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Response to Doc_Technical (Reply #23)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 04:57 PM

44. I really don't think or want to believe that Roberts did that intentionally.

On another note, what an amazing day that was for our country. I sat in my living room and cried and cried, tears of joy and so much emotion that we had finally moved beyond our wretched history of racism.

Boy, was I ever wrong. Who know so many racists would come out of the woodwork - aka teabaggers.

Still, I am so glad I was alive to witness this event.

Oh, and the crowds and their enthusiasm. Almost as much as for the Dump.

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Response to dajoki (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:23 PM

26. This will always be the tainted history of Chief Justice John Roberts

No matter how many years it takes liberals and progressives to get the Citizens United ruling struck down - and it will be struck down eventually - we are now seeing and smelling the taint thanks to John Roberts.

I hope my grandson's generation lives to see this mess finally cleaned up, because I know I won't be around to see it myself.



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Response to dajoki (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:28 PM

27. Corruption gone wild!!!

Probably another contributing factor is the absence of some kind of compulsory national service. Not necessarily military service but something that teaches princelings and narcissistic con artists like Trump the meaning of sacrifice for one's country and the greater good.

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Response to dajoki (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:39 PM

29. Obama called it during the state of the union, remember?

 

Citizens united defied logic, no common sense was used.

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Response to dajoki (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:41 PM

31. Just what Roberts intended.

Looked up "Opus Dei" and the Supreme Court. This is from a site called "opentabernacle".

ďLeonard Leo can take credit for installing four Supreme Court justicesĒ- John Roberts, Samuel Alito, Neil Gorsuch and Brett Kavanaugh. ďAs executive vice president of the Federalist Society. Leo has been the quiet architect of a pivotal shift to the right throughout the federal judiciaryĒ including ďdozens of lower court federal judges across the country.Ē


They are extreme ideologues: Right wing, patriarchal, corporatist, racist. Not at all interested in the Constitution or Democracy.

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Response to dajoki (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 02:01 PM

32. The author is Dana Milbank. nt

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Response to dajoki (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 02:24 PM

37. Indeed.

Too bad the chickens come home to roost on all our heads. Not just his. We ALL are stuck with his courtís gruesome decisions.

I thought Iíd somehow find solace in the death of that inflated self-satisfied putz Scalia. But weíre no better off now, considering who replaced him - and who decided that.

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Response to dajoki (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 02:29 PM

38. Roberts sees this not as a mess, but of victory.

The GOP believes it can maintain its hold on power through the judiciary. It is naive to believe Roberts cares about fairness or legitimacy of the court.

Why should he? His is a general in the conservative army. I would imagine heís delighted by the chaos.

My hope is that the gop does not win the war, of course. But it has done a remarkable job seizing power even though it does not have a majority of the people behind it.

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Response to dajoki (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 04:38 PM

43. I wonder if Roberts realizes he is presiding over what could be the beginning of the end

of the Republic.
If Trump is acquitted, wins in November, and the Senate stays in Republican hands, then the Republic could fall.
We can't afford 4 more years of a Hitler wannabe in the Oval Office.
It would be a time of revenge and retribution, fueled by a triumphant, angry, unhinged President, facilitated by a depraved Senate Majority Leader, and all of Trump's swamp creature sycophants.

The soul of the nation is in peril.
We must win in November!

Patrick Phillips

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Response to dajoki (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 05:02 PM

46. Not even face to face, it's an end to a goal. He's enjoying this sham, knowing he will

own the Libs and protect Trump.

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Response to dajoki (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 05:21 PM

47. You talk as though he's unhappy about it all

I give it 50/50, at the lowest, that he's downright giddy inside.

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Response to dajoki (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 08:46 PM

49. This is the best OP and discussion on DU I've read in quite awhile.

Horrifying and depressing as some of the implications are carried to their logical conclusions. But I have to believe we'll find a way to beat, defeat or avoid the complete takeover somehow. Don't have any evidence that supports that at the present time other than the majority of young people don't believe in or support what a good third of our population has fallen for.

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Response to Ligyron (Reply #49)

Sun Jan 26, 2020, 10:23 AM

54. I agree with you...

and I like your optimism. It will not be easy to defeat all of this corruption but we have to give it our best shot, my grandchildren and everyone else's are counting on us.

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Response to dajoki (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 08:56 PM

50. He Probably Thinks It's Going As Planned

IMO

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