General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums******* Senate Impeachment Live Thread 2 - 1/25 *******
Live Thread 1: https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212908351
underpants
(182,970 posts)madaboutharry
(40,239 posts)resisting every subpoena and request for documents.
#1: We didn't like the way you issued your subpoenas.
#2: We didn't assert executive privilege because we didn't like
the way you issued your subpoenas.
#3: We didn't like the way you conducted business in the
House. We don't think subcommittees count.
BumRushDaShow
(129,805 posts)which was completely debunked the past couple days.
ancianita
(36,186 posts)All this "doesn't make sense" bullshit hyperrationalization on "valid" subpoenas.
nolabear
(42,001 posts)Mike 03
(16,616 posts)(sorry for the caps)
mnhtnbb
(31,410 posts)to work things out himself with Putin.
In other words, no help from me, with your aggressor (because he's my puppet master).
Thanks for bringing that in. Am sharing it around.
Journaling the House Intels realtime debunking of the WH defense.
Eta: Link to the House Managers press conference after the defense teams appearance. Is another great round of debunking: https://www.c-span.org/video/?468583-1/house-impeachment-managers-hold-news-conference&live
underpants
(182,970 posts)It's his review of the house and senate roles and his hypothetical on the Senate having a committee.
ancianita
(36,186 posts)What a bullshit line of argument.
underpants
(182,970 posts)ancianita
(36,186 posts)underpants
(182,970 posts)Mersky
(4,986 posts)I assure you he will have gotten it from calendar and clock, doug collins.
kag
(4,079 posts)They just don't like WHEN it was.
underpants
(182,970 posts)kag
(4,079 posts)Botany
(70,627 posts)So the full house has to vote before a committee can issue a subponea? When did that become a law?
And since the DoJ aka Bill Barr rejected everything from the House Committee
so everybody in the White House is above the law?
*******
BTW they can't argue the facts of the case so all they can do is make process
arguments.
Mersky
(4,986 posts)And they used the subpoena rules instituted by the republicans when they were in the majority.
Botany
(70,627 posts)He is arguing from the absurd but he looks good doing it. These motherfuckers are working
for the destruction of democracy in America.
The Rude Pundit summed it up very nicely.
"And, frankly, Republicans are more obsessed with 2016 now than Democrats are because they know, they fucking know, that Trump's victory is illegitimate and they have to do everything in their power to not let that fact become viral."
LiberalFighter
(51,229 posts)Committees vote on them. Not the full House.
Botany
(70,627 posts)... paid more than enough that he can sleep @ night. And all the republican senators know that
argument is specious too and they know that Trump is guilty as hell but so many of them are so
deep into the corruption that they don't care and or will vote to acquit out of self defense.
The Rude Pundit has already summed it all up nicely.
"And, frankly, Republicans are more obsessed with 2016 now than Democrats are because they know, they fucking know, that Trump's victory is illegitimate and they have to do everything in their power to not let that fact become viral."
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212904164
cp
(6,673 posts)n/t
kag
(4,079 posts)He makes it sound like "if they had just done it right, we would have gladly handed over all the stuff they asked for." Which is bullshit.
The documents the House asked for are important. So if the Senate now asks for them, are they gonna just hand them all over?
underpants
(182,970 posts)Too bad. He's been impeached.
nolabear
(42,001 posts)Lots of Wah! For a second.
nolabear
(42,001 posts)These guys are really awful.
it's got to be 5:00 somewhere
✌🏼
kag
(4,079 posts)ALBliberal
(2,353 posts)Truly my light in the (s@@t) storm.
kag
(4,079 posts)procon
(15,805 posts)withheld the money and then tried to cover it up by ordering everyone not to to talk about it or inform Ukraine.
This is pitiful!
So far all I'm hearing is a tirade about burden sharing which isn't in the articles of impeachment. It's a distraction at best. They can't actually discuss the facts because Trump is guilty so we have this slow motion crawl of Trumpian talking points to fill up their designated airtime.
The whistleblower didn't "start all of this." The orange menace did.
spanone
(135,916 posts)While there are no criminal penalties from the GAO ruling, it will certainly invigorate the Democrats' efforts to hold President Donald Trump and his accomplices accountable for their repugnant behavior. The process for Trump's impeachment trial in the Senate began Thursday with the presentation of the articles of impeachment.
The GAO ruling will also force the White House further into crisis mode. It is difficult to keep count of the number of times that many among us assumed there was enough solid evidence to turn the legal and political tide against Trump. But each time it looked like the administration was pushed to the edge of the cliff, it has managed to slip away in the court of public opinion.
But we may be getting to the point where even the Teflon President can't wriggle free.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/16/opinions/trump-gao-report-bombshell-military-aid-ukraine-illegal-bociurkiw/
Mersky
(4,986 posts)Good grief, they love to manufacture boogeymen out of good guys.
Blaukraut
(5,695 posts)in his prebuttal last night. Every single one!
underpants
(182,970 posts)"The whistleblower was given some guidance"
Schiff's staff stepped back and said "You need to get a lawyer" and got the hell away.
BumRushDaShow
(129,805 posts)kag
(4,079 posts)Taxpayers have spent waaaayyyy more than that on Trump's fucking golf trips.
Botany
(70,627 posts)I have to turn it off. The whistleblower's actions and his or her I.D. is protected by law.
melm00se
(4,997 posts)and behavior reminds me of this quote
If youre weak on the law and strong on the facts, pound the facts.
If youre weak on both, pound the table.
There are people on both sides of this issue who can be slotted in each of these categories.
BumRushDaShow
(129,805 posts)yellowcanine
(35,703 posts)And it is still a turd. Silk purse, sow's ear also comes to mind.
BumRushDaShow
(129,805 posts)to put more lipstick on that pig!
hedda_foil
(16,376 posts)melm00se
(4,997 posts)in each category.
This is not a perfect quote but it just sums up the way I see people behaving.
It should be noted that I think that there should be a 4th category:
When you are strong on the law and strong the facts, your opponent is well and truly fucked.
hedda_foil
(16,376 posts)You've inserted a slur on Dems as well as repukes by claiming that both sides did it. I challenge you to name one including a specific example of how they just pounded the table.
BumRushDaShow
(129,805 posts)but the point WAS that Zelensky has STILL NOT HAD the "Oval Office meeting".
underpants
(182,970 posts)Wow. A null set argument.
kag
(4,079 posts)Ask the people of Puerto Rico how many fucks Trump gives about dealing with hurricanes.
dweller
(23,686 posts)✌🏼
underpants
(182,970 posts)I just don't know.
Mersky
(4,986 posts)I had to look it up, tbs. Feels like its been ten years since the sharpie map.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/04/trump-hurricane-dorian-alabama-sharpie-map
underpants
(182,970 posts)dweller
(23,686 posts)would have made for a great graphic though
✌🏼
Mersky
(4,986 posts)Lol. They do it to themselves. Pound the table and reference the sharpie gate days.
malaise
(269,239 posts)Pathetic
BumRushDaShow
(129,805 posts)underpants
(182,970 posts)But DU was fun as usual.
Cipollone almost went into a Mr. Rogers mode there at the end.
BumRushDaShow
(129,805 posts)Mersky
(4,986 posts)in2herbs
(2,947 posts)BumRushDaShow
(129,805 posts)C_U_L8R
(45,029 posts)BumRushDaShow
(129,805 posts)And usually at the beginning of the next session, they will inform the parties how much time remains from the allocated time.
Each side was allocated 24 hours to present and Democrats used about 21 hours of the max 24 hours. So far the GOP has used around 2 hours of their 24 hours.
C_U_L8R
(45,029 posts)and the President's defense can parse it out as long as they like? Apologies, I'm just not grokking why today was just two hours.
BumRushDaShow
(129,805 posts)I think the rules were that each side could spread their "24 hour allocation" of presentations over 3 days, regardless of how many hours of that 24 they would eventually use. So it ended up this way due to when the House Managers started (which was on a Wednesday - but each session started in the afternoon at 1 pm ET and there would be about an hour or so worth of breaks during that time each day) and when they were done, which was yesterday (Friday). The Dem Managers used about 21 hours of the 24 - making for a long 3 days because they were directed to start in the afternoon. So it ended up the GOP would then logically start "the next day" after our side was done, which would be today (Saturday). And since obviously everyone was burnt out, I think everyone agreed that they would make it a short Saturday with just their opening statements.
So the GOP had today, and will have Monday, and Tuesday to use up their 24 hours (they have only used about 2 hours so far), although they probably have nowhere near 24 hours prepared for their presentation.
C_U_L8R
(45,029 posts)BumRushDaShow
(129,805 posts)Hopefully what I wrote sortof makes sense because I am still operating on vapors today.
ariadne0614
(1,744 posts)Mersky
(4,986 posts)BumRushDaShow
(129,805 posts)Mersky
(4,986 posts)See ya in the live threads sooon!
underpants
(182,970 posts)Mersky
(4,986 posts)Well get through the junk of it, together.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,525 posts)Just got here, found I've missed the whole thing (breakin my heart), and can now go back and read about all the earthshattering new! improved! exculpatory evidence that was presented.
Mersky
(4,986 posts)Whether commenting (a lot) or READING. Is all good stuff.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,525 posts)Time zone (and sleep) got me today. I thought the first hour would be mostly squawling, so planned to look in about 11 am. Oops. They started at 10 eastern, 9 central and were finished by the time I came to your 2nd thread!
UniteFightBack
(8,231 posts)didn't watch it and I'm sorry but they are done in 2 hours..........???? Says it all.
ancianita
(36,186 posts)Everyone here could have taken the easy way out and not listened. But they didn't, which makes DU all the greater.
Mersky
(4,986 posts)Pretty much sums up DU. Am so glad to be in here.
gademocrat7
(10,679 posts)I appreciate your efforts.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)Mersky
(4,986 posts)And Ill keep doing what I can.