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Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:28 PM

******* Senate Impeachment Live Thread 2 - 1/25 *******





Live Thread 1: https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212908351

86 replies, 3992 views

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Arrow 86 replies Author Time Post
Reply ******* Senate Impeachment Live Thread 2 - 1/25 ******* (Original post)
Mersky Jan 2020 OP
underpants Jan 2020 #1
madaboutharry Jan 2020 #2
BumRushDaShow Jan 2020 #3
ancianita Jan 2020 #4
nolabear Jan 2020 #5
Mike 03 Jan 2020 #13
mnhtnbb Jan 2020 #14
Mersky Jan 2020 #72
underpants Jan 2020 #6
ancianita Jan 2020 #7
underpants Jan 2020 #10
ancianita Jan 2020 #20
underpants Jan 2020 #23
Mersky Jan 2020 #8
kag Jan 2020 #9
underpants Jan 2020 #12
kag Jan 2020 #11
Botany Jan 2020 #15
Mersky Jan 2020 #21
Botany Jan 2020 #24
LiberalFighter Jan 2020 #79
Botany Jan 2020 #81
cp Jan 2020 #82
Botany Jan 2020 #86
kag Jan 2020 #16
underpants Jan 2020 #28
nolabear Jan 2020 #17
nolabear Jan 2020 #18
dweller Jan 2020 #19
kag Jan 2020 #22
ALBliberal Jan 2020 #30
kag Jan 2020 #41
procon Jan 2020 #25
kag Jan 2020 #26
spanone Jan 2020 #27
Mersky Jan 2020 #29
Blaukraut Jan 2020 #31
underpants Jan 2020 #32
BumRushDaShow Jan 2020 #33
kag Jan 2020 #34
Botany Jan 2020 #35
melm00se Jan 2020 #36
BumRushDaShow Jan 2020 #38
yellowcanine Jan 2020 #51
BumRushDaShow Jan 2020 #58
hedda_foil Jan 2020 #54
melm00se Jan 2020 #67
hedda_foil Jan 2020 #71
BumRushDaShow Jan 2020 #37
underpants Jan 2020 #43
kag Jan 2020 #39
dweller Jan 2020 #40
underpants Jan 2020 #45
Mersky Jan 2020 #52
underpants Jan 2020 #60
dweller Jan 2020 #53
Mersky Jan 2020 #66
malaise Jan 2020 #42
BumRushDaShow Jan 2020 #44
underpants Jan 2020 #50
BumRushDaShow Jan 2020 #56
Mersky Jan 2020 #46
in2herbs Jan 2020 #47
BumRushDaShow Jan 2020 #48
C_U_L8R Jan 2020 #70
BumRushDaShow Jan 2020 #77
C_U_L8R Jan 2020 #78
BumRushDaShow Jan 2020 #83
C_U_L8R Jan 2020 #84
BumRushDaShow Jan 2020 #85
ariadne0614 Jan 2020 #49
Mersky Jan 2020 #55
BumRushDaShow Jan 2020 #57
Mersky Jan 2020 #62
underpants Jan 2020 #59
Mersky Jan 2020 #63
Hermit-The-Prog Jan 2020 #61
Mersky Jan 2020 #64
Hermit-The-Prog Jan 2020 #74
UniteFightBack Jan 2020 #65
ancianita Jan 2020 #68
Mersky Jan 2020 #75
gademocrat7 Jan 2020 #69
Generic Other Jan 2020 #73
Mersky Jan 2020 #76
uponit7771 Jan 2020 #80

Response to Mersky (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:33 PM

1. Boy for all the attacks on Schiff's appearance this Philbin guy makes Jared look like a tough guy

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Response to Mersky (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:34 PM

2. They are now claiming Trump had a good reason for

resisting every subpoena and request for documents.

#1: We didn't like the way you issued your subpoenas.
#2: We didn't assert executive privilege because we didn't like
the way you issued your subpoenas.
#3: We didn't like the way you conducted business in the
House. We don't think subcommittees count.

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Response to Mersky (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:35 PM

3. So Philbin is assigned to do the "process" argument

which was completely debunked the past couple days.

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Response to Mersky (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:35 PM

4. Criticizing the House "process" with "only by a vote of the House," prebutted by Schiff last night.

All this "doesn't make sense" bullshit hyperrationalization on "valid" subpoenas.

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Response to Mersky (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:36 PM

5. Brilliant real time debunking by the House Intel Committee on Twitter.

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Response to nolabear (Reply #5)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:41 PM

13. THIS IS BRILLIANT!

(sorry for the caps)

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Response to nolabear (Reply #5)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:41 PM

14. Not only has there not been an Oval Office meeting, but 45 told Zelensky when they met at the UN

to work things out himself with Putin.

In other words, no help from me, with your aggressor (because he's my puppet master).

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Response to nolabear (Reply #5)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:49 PM

72. Cool.

Thanks for bringing that in. Am sharing it around.

Journaling the House Intel’s realtime debunking of the WH ‘defense’.

Eta: Link to the House Managers press conference after the ‘defense’ team’s appearance. Is another great round of debunking: https://www.c-span.org/video/?468583-1/house-impeachment-managers-hold-news-conference&live

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Response to Mersky (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:36 PM

6. Philbin went for a walk in the woods there

It's his review of the house and senate roles and his hypothetical on the Senate having a committee.

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Response to Mersky (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:36 PM

7. So an old rule "about a vote by the full House" overrides the Constitution, in this argument.

What a bullshit line of argument.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #7)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:40 PM

10. There was a vote to initiate the intel committee

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Response to underpants (Reply #10)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:45 PM

20. ?? I'm not sure what you're trying to say. The Intel Committee is a standing committee.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #20)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:47 PM

23. I meant to initiate the Impeachment hearing

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Response to Mersky (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:36 PM

8. I'm just waiting for one of his folksy witticisms given in monotone voice

I assure you he will have gotten it from calendar and clock, doug collins.

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Response to Mersky (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:40 PM

9. He acts like there was NEVER a vote by the full house. That's bullshit.

They just don't like WHEN it was.

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Response to kag (Reply #9)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:40 PM

12. Thank you.

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Response to Mersky (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:40 PM

11. Oh so NOW precedent is important.

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Response to Mersky (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:43 PM

15. Philburn

So the full house has to vote before a committee can issue a subponea? When did that become a law?

And since the DoJ aka Bill Barr rejected everything from the House Committee
so everybody in the White House is above the law?

*******

BTW they can't argue the facts of the case so all they can do is make process
arguments.

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Response to Botany (Reply #15)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:45 PM

21. Lol. philburn.

And they used the subpoena rules instituted by the republicans when they were in the majority.

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Response to Mersky (Reply #21)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:49 PM

24. I only could watch about 3 minutes and that is what I thought his name was.

He is arguing from the absurd but he looks good doing it. These motherfuckers are working
for the destruction of democracy in America.

The Rude Pundit summed it up very nicely.
"And, frankly, Republicans are more obsessed with 2016 now than Democrats are because they know, they fucking know, that Trump's victory is illegitimate and they have to do everything in their power to not let that fact become viral."

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Response to Botany (Reply #15)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 02:27 PM

79. From what I read about reals regarding subpoenas...

Committees vote on them. Not the full House.

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Response to LiberalFighter (Reply #79)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 02:36 PM

81. I'm sure that Philbin knows that his argument is specious but he is not bothered by that or is ...

... paid more than enough that he can sleep @ night. And all the republican senators know that
argument is specious too and they know that Trump is guilty as hell but so many of them are so
deep into the corruption that they don't care and or will vote to acquit out of self defense.



The Rude Pundit has already summed it all up nicely.
"And, frankly, Republicans are more obsessed with 2016 now than Democrats are because they know, they fucking know, that Trump's victory is illegitimate and they have to do everything in their power to not let that fact become viral."

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212904164

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Response to Botany (Reply #81)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 03:02 PM

82. Is he sure he's gonna get paid? By Dump?

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Response to cp (Reply #82)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 03:28 PM

86. +1

n/t

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Response to Mersky (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:43 PM

16. This whole argument is maddening.

He makes it sound like "if they had just done it right, we would have gladly handed over all the stuff they asked for." Which is bullshit.

The documents the House asked for are important. So if the Senate now asks for them, are they gonna just hand them all over?

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Response to kag (Reply #16)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:50 PM

28. They took the ball and went home. Now they haz sad they forfeited the game.

Too bad. He's been impeached.

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Response to Mersky (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:43 PM

17. Is there a baby in there or has 45 shown up?

Lots of “Wah!” For a second.

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Response to Mersky (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:45 PM

18. Well, if nothing else people will be bored to death and tune out.

These guys are really awful.

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Response to Mersky (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:45 PM

19. F it

it's got to be 5:00 somewhere



✌🏼

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Response to dweller (Reply #19)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:46 PM

22. In Ukraine, I think.

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Response to kag (Reply #22)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:52 PM

30. That's hilarious. I love DU humor as much as DU knowledge.

Truly my light in the (s@@t) storm.

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Response to ALBliberal (Reply #30)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:01 PM

41. Yup. DU keeps me sane. n/t

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Response to Mersky (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:49 PM

25. Still waiting for someone to explain why Trump

withheld the money and then tried to cover it up by ordering everyone not to to talk about it or inform Ukraine.

This is pitiful!

So far all I'm hearing is a tirade about burden sharing which isn't in the articles of impeachment. It's a distraction at best. They can't actually discuss the facts because Trump is guilty so we have this slow motion crawl of Trumpian talking points to fill up their designated airtime.

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Response to Mersky (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:49 PM

26. Ugh.

The whistleblower didn't "start all of this." The orange menace did.

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Response to Mersky (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:50 PM

27. Dear trump lawyers...Government Accountability Office - the White House broke the Law...

London (CNN)In the months since news broke that the Trump administration temporarily withheld $400 million in military aid to Ukraine, the report on Thursday by the Government Accountability Office that the White House broke the law by its actions will rank as one of the biggest bombshells.

While there are no criminal penalties from the GAO ruling, it will certainly invigorate the Democrats' efforts to hold President Donald Trump and his accomplices accountable for their repugnant behavior. The process for Trump's impeachment trial in the Senate began Thursday with the presentation of the articles of impeachment.

The GAO ruling will also force the White House further into crisis mode. It is difficult to keep count of the number of times that many among us assumed there was enough solid evidence to turn the legal and political tide against Trump. But each time it looked like the administration was pushed to the edge of the cliff, it has managed to slip away in the court of public opinion.

But we may be getting to the point where even the Teflon President can't wriggle free.


https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/16/opinions/trump-gao-report-bombshell-military-aid-ukraine-illegal-bociurkiw/

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Response to Mersky (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:51 PM

29. Here it is, the whistleblower shell game of 'who's the one with integrity'

Good grief, they love to manufacture boogeymen out of good guys.

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Response to Mersky (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:52 PM

31. Not watching, but judging by this thread, Schiff hit all their defense arguments

in his prebuttal last night. Every single one!

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Response to Mersky (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:53 PM

32. Okay that was complete BS about the whistleblower meeting Schiff's staff

"The whistleblower was given some guidance"

Schiff's staff stepped back and said "You need to get a lawyer" and got the hell away.

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Response to Mersky (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:55 PM

33. Cippy cup - "Good news - just a few more minutes" from us

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Response to Mersky (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:55 PM

34. How is it relevant that the Mueller investigation cost $32 million.

Taxpayers have spent waaaayyyy more than that on Trump's fucking golf trips.

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Response to Mersky (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:55 PM

35. Did he just say Chairman Schiff-ty?

I have to turn it off. The whistleblower's actions and his or her I.D. is protected by law.

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Response to Mersky (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:57 PM

36. The impeachment environment

and behavior reminds me of this quote

If you’re weak on the facts and strong on the law, pound the law.
If you’re weak on the law and strong on the facts, pound the facts.
If you’re weak on both, pound the table.


There are people on both sides of this issue who can be slotted in each of these categories.

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Response to melm00se (Reply #36)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:59 PM

38. The GOP is not even "pounding the table" absent both the law or the facts!

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #38)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:05 PM

51. More polishing the turd than pounding the table from the little I have seen.

And it is still a turd. Silk purse, sow's ear also comes to mind.

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Response to yellowcanine (Reply #51)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:17 PM

58. And trying

to put more lipstick on that pig!

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Response to melm00se (Reply #36)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:07 PM

54. Um, exactly who on the Democratic side pounded the table?

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Response to hedda_foil (Reply #54)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:38 PM

67. never said who was

in each category.

This is not a perfect quote but it just sums up the way I see people behaving.

It should be noted that I think that there should be a 4th category:

When you are strong on the law and strong the facts, your opponent is well and truly fucked.

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Response to melm00se (Reply #67)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:49 PM

71. You didn't say who you meant so I asked you to make any Dems in that category.

You've inserted a slur on Dems as well as repukes by claiming that both sides did it. I challenge you to name one including a specific example of how they just pounded the table.

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Response to Mersky (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 12:58 PM

37. I can't believe that he is going over the WH invitations to meet

but the point WAS that Zelensky has STILL NOT HAD the "Oval Office meeting".

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #37)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:01 PM

43. Yeah he also talked about a meeting in Poland that didn't happen either

Wow. A null set argument.

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Response to Mersky (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:00 PM

39. OMG! There was a hurricane????

Ask the people of Puerto Rico how many fucks Trump gives about dealing with hurricanes.

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Response to Mersky (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:00 PM

40. the sharpie hurricane forecast map ...



✌🏼

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Response to dweller (Reply #40)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:02 PM

45. Was that the same Hurricane ?

I just don't know.

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Response to underpants (Reply #45)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:05 PM

52. Yes. Was Dorian.

I had to look it up, tbs. Feels like it’s been ten years since the sharpie map.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/04/trump-hurricane-dorian-alabama-sharpie-map

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Response to Mersky (Reply #52)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:17 PM

60. Thanks

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Response to underpants (Reply #45)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:06 PM

53. me either

would have made for a great graphic though



✌🏼

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Response to dweller (Reply #53)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:38 PM

66. Is a reeeal strong point they made, isn't it?!

Lol. They do it to themselves. Pound the table and reference the sharpie gate days.

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Response to Mersky (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:01 PM

42. Over and done

Pathetic

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Response to Mersky (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:02 PM

44. And that was that. Less than 2 hours

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #44)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:04 PM

50. Felt a lot longer

But DU was fun as usual.

Cipollone almost went into a Mr. Rogers mode there at the end.

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Response to underpants (Reply #50)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:08 PM

56. It felt like that because they talked so slowly

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Response to Mersky (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:02 PM

46. Oh no, the pResident couldn't go to Poland because hurricane, aka golfing

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Response to Mersky (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:02 PM

47. If the Rs intended to make an impact with today's testimony they failed miserably. nt

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Response to Mersky (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:02 PM

48. ***ADJOURNED FOR THE DAY UNTIL 1:00PM ET MONDAY JAN. 27,2020***

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #48)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:43 PM

70. Wait, what. Is the clock still running?

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Response to C_U_L8R (Reply #70)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 02:08 PM

77. No. They go by how much is used up during a "session"

And usually at the beginning of the next session, they will inform the parties how much time remains from the allocated time.

Each side was allocated 24 hours to present and Democrats used about 21 hours of the max 24 hours. So far the GOP has used around 2 hours of their 24 hours.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #77)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 02:11 PM

78. So Dems had to present into the night across 3 days

and the President's defense can parse it out as long as they like? Apologies, I'm just not grokking why today was just two hours.

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Response to C_U_L8R (Reply #78)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 03:13 PM

83. No, I don't think it worked that way

I think the rules were that each side could spread their "24 hour allocation" of presentations over 3 days, regardless of how many hours of that 24 they would eventually use. So it ended up this way due to when the House Managers started (which was on a Wednesday - but each session started in the afternoon at 1 pm ET and there would be about an hour or so worth of breaks during that time each day) and when they were done, which was yesterday (Friday). The Dem Managers used about 21 hours of the 24 - making for a long 3 days because they were directed to start in the afternoon. So it ended up the GOP would then logically start "the next day" after our side was done, which would be today (Saturday). And since obviously everyone was burnt out, I think everyone agreed that they would make it a short Saturday with just their opening statements.

So the GOP had today, and will have Monday, and Tuesday to use up their 24 hours (they have only used about 2 hours so far), although they probably have nowhere near 24 hours prepared for their presentation.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #83)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 03:17 PM

84. Thanks BRDS!

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Response to C_U_L8R (Reply #84)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 03:18 PM

85. You are welcome

Hopefully what I wrote sortof makes sense because I am still operating on vapors today.

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Response to ariadne0614 (Reply #49)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:07 PM

55. Spookily accurate read.

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Response to Mersky (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:09 PM

57. Thank you Mersky for the threads!!!

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #57)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:29 PM

62. You know you're so very welcome!

See ya in the live threads sooon!

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Response to Mersky (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:17 PM

59. Thank you Mersky

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Response to underpants (Reply #59)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:32 PM

63. Thank you for being in here!

We’ll get through the junk of it, together.

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Response to Mersky (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:23 PM

61. Thanks Mersky!

Just got here, found I've missed the whole thing (breakin my heart), and can now go back and read about all the earthshattering new! improved! exculpatory evidence that was presented.

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Response to Hermit-The-Prog (Reply #61)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:34 PM

64. Hi! You're doing your part to make these threads worthwhile!

Whether commenting (a lot) or READING. Is all good stuff.

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Response to Mersky (Reply #64)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:53 PM

74. Ha! missed 'em today ...

Time zone (and sleep) got me today. I thought the first hour would be mostly squawling, so planned to look in about 11 am. Oops. They started at 10 eastern, 9 central and were finished by the time I came to your 2nd thread!

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Response to Mersky (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:36 PM

65. Oh gee whiz is it over already. I guess dump got one right that it was a ratings disaster I sure

 

didn't watch it and I'm sorry but they are done in 2 hours..........???? Says it all.

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Response to Mersky (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:40 PM

68. Thank you, Mersky. Republican argument tracking is the hardest work there is.

Everyone here could have taken the easy way out and not listened. But they didn't, which makes DU all the greater.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #68)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 02:02 PM

75. Good readers and listeners...

Pretty much sums up DU. Am so glad to be in here.


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Response to Mersky (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:43 PM

69. Thank you, Mersky!

I appreciate your efforts.

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Response to gademocrat7 (Reply #69)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 01:51 PM

73. OMG over before we even woke up on the West Coast

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Response to gademocrat7 (Reply #69)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 02:05 PM

76. Am glad you're in here!

And I’ll keep doing what I can.

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Response to Mersky (Original post)

Sat Jan 25, 2020, 02:33 PM

80. Lanksford should know better

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