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Botany

(70,291 posts)
Sun Jan 26, 2020, 09:55 AM Jan 2020

Norm Ornstein ... on the GOP/Trump's lawyers arguments yesterday in front of the Senate

Norm is an old friend of my now late father and I asked him yesterday about team Trump's lawyers
arguments that the House Intel Committee could not issue subpoenas without a vote in the full House
and that the House's impeachment was not handled Constitutionally and these were his answers.

"The House delegates subpoena authority to committees on a regular basis. And the constitution says flatly that the House has sole power over impeachments. So the argument is bullshit."


23 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Norm Ornstein ... on the GOP/Trump's lawyers arguments yesterday in front of the Senate (Original Post) Botany Jan 2020 OP
Of course it is bullshit . . . Iliyah Jan 2020 #1
Me thinks that Team Trump's argument was for an audience of the following: Botany Jan 2020 #2
I think that your list 1-3 could be summarized by saying "the RW mentally challenged among us. usaf-vet Jan 2020 #12
Agreed. c-rational Jan 2020 #16
Come on now. The Scarsdale Jan 2020 #10
of course handmade34 Jan 2020 #3
If this was a real trial then a lawyer like Adam Schiff would have objected to the false arguments. Botany Jan 2020 #4
if I spread lies in court like republicans I would be disbarred. There is no factual dispute that Pepsidog Jan 2020 #18
Once again all I see beside the blatant lies by the Trump/GOP lawyers is that the only thing they... Botany Jan 2020 #20
I suspect the impeachment rules prohibit objections. I haven't watched the trial because I stomach Pepsidog Jan 2020 #21
I think that the repubs know that the demographics.. Botany Jan 2020 #23
They all lie malaise Jan 2020 #5
It Is All Flaunting The Law And The Constitution colsohlibgal Jan 2020 #6
Is Chief Justice Roberts numbed by experiencing firsthand Hortensis Jan 2020 #7
Time for Roberts to weigh in? TheRickles Jan 2020 #9
Roberts could exert enormous influence in this process. Who is going to stop him? Hard to believe he Pepsidog Jan 2020 #17
As that slimebag 2naSalit Jan 2020 #8
Putin sits back and smirks. Scarsdale Jan 2020 #13
Strange isn't it - all those Repukes can cite the 2nd Amendment word for word packman Jan 2020 #11
Laws and decency are only Scarsdale Jan 2020 #14
Great point.My wife asks will it ever be back to normal and I say yes when Dems are back in control. Pepsidog Jan 2020 #19
Recommended. H2O Man Jan 2020 #15
K&R! n/t PandoraAwakened Jan 2020 #22

Iliyah

(25,111 posts)
1. Of course it is bullshit . . .
Sun Jan 26, 2020, 10:08 AM
Jan 2020

and to wonder how in the hell did shithole's lawyers ever passed the bar.

Botany

(70,291 posts)
2. Me thinks that Team Trump's argument was for an audience of the following:
Sun Jan 26, 2020, 10:12 AM
Jan 2020

1) Fox News viewers. Facts don't matter

2) D. Trump. The man lives on lies.

3) The media. So they can sell the "both sides do it meme." and a "Trump's lawyer argue his legal defense meme."

Scarsdale

(9,426 posts)
10. Come on now. The
Sun Jan 26, 2020, 11:17 AM
Jan 2020

lawyers for tRump are ever bit as "qualified" for their jobs as tRump is for his. Also, they fit in perfectly with the other unqualified administration members. Top of that list of course we find the two "senior advisors" with zero experience, Iwanka and Jarred. They are raking in the money, in spite of being dumb as bricks.

Botany

(70,291 posts)
4. If this was a real trial then a lawyer like Adam Schiff would have objected to the false arguments.
Sun Jan 26, 2020, 10:21 AM
Jan 2020

But this is McConnell's sham show trial and he is not going to allow in show pesky things as witnesses,
evidence, and legal precedence.

The republicans want this over ASAP. They know the truth and they don't want it to come out.

The Rude Pundit has summed it all up very nicely.


"And, frankly, Republicans are more obsessed with 2016 now than Democrats are because they know, they fucking know, that Trump's victory is illegitimate and they have to do everything in their power to not let that fact become viral."

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212904164

Pepsidog

(6,252 posts)
18. if I spread lies in court like republicans I would be disbarred. There is no factual dispute that
Sun Jan 26, 2020, 12:41 PM
Jan 2020

Republicans participated in the impeachment hearings and Trump was offered an opportunity to defend himself. Hard to understand how Roberts sits there and allows lie after lie.

Botany

(70,291 posts)
20. Once again all I see beside the blatant lies by the Trump/GOP lawyers is that the only thing they...
Sun Jan 26, 2020, 01:22 PM
Jan 2020

... have is process arguments. Because after all not one of them have disputed the facts of the case outside
of their boilerplate statements such as:

* they haven't produced any evidence of Trump's guilt (not true)

* Trump wasn't given a chance to defend himself (not true)

BTW I take it you are a lawyer so how come one of the impeachment managers can't raise an objection
to the easily debunked GOP lies and ask for a ruling from the bench in this case Justice Roberts?



Pepsidog

(6,252 posts)
21. I suspect the impeachment rules prohibit objections. I haven't watched the trial because I stomach
Sun Jan 26, 2020, 01:45 PM
Jan 2020

the lies. If objections were permitted I suspect the Republicans would have disrupted the Dems presentation like they tried to do in the House impeachment hearings. However, while I’m sure Roberts doesn’t want to put his thumb on scale, the Constitution provides that the Chief Justice of SCOTUS “preside” over the trial. In my view that gives him broad authority to do what he wants. I don’t practice in Federal court other than bankruptcy proceedings, but Federal judges can do pretty much whatever they want. Roberts sitting silent while Republicans spew lie after lie is disturbing. You are correct, Republican arguments over process are not disputes over the facts for a jury to determine. They are just lies that subvert the rule of law, our democracy and Roberts not correcting the record or calling out the Republicans is unforgivable. He is doing as much damage to our country as the Republicans. Roberts is as complicit as the Republicans at this point. Roberts could do so much to restore confidence in our legal system but chooses not to. If he called out the lies being told about the process the Republicans could do nothing, zero about it. Like Trump, Roberts is untouchable. Dems aren’t going to agree to impeachment proceedings against him for calling out Republican lies so why he sits silent is a testament of what a coward he is.

Botany

(70,291 posts)
23. I think that the repubs know that the demographics..
Sun Jan 26, 2020, 08:22 PM
Jan 2020

... are dead set against them so court packing is one way they can keep power. Roberts has given us Citizens United and the roll back of the voting rights act both of which have been a hammer to our democracy.

After Ohio 2004 3 low level election workers in Cuyahoga county... Cleveland.... were indicted, arrested, tried, and convicted for rigging the recount and the judge at their sentencing 'em that he was sure they were covering for others but gave 'em 2 years each. A Republican judge then over ruled the sentences and let 'em all walk.

We are seeing the same thing with Moscow Mitch's show trial now.

colsohlibgal

(5,275 posts)
6. It Is All Flaunting The Law And The Constitution
Sun Jan 26, 2020, 10:50 AM
Jan 2020

Like Twitler stonewalling on his tax returns. It’s all out of the Autocrat’s playbook.

I hope Glenn Kirchner is right, he recently said he feels increasingly like there will be a Blue Wave in 2020 that will be more impressive than the one in 2018.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
7. Is Chief Justice Roberts numbed by experiencing firsthand
Sun Jan 26, 2020, 10:58 AM
Jan 2020

the Republican determination to destroy our separations of powers and checks and balances, or is he affected by this? I have no idea how many hugely pertinent cases still have to be decided by his court.

TheRickles

(2,000 posts)
9. Time for Roberts to weigh in?
Sun Jan 26, 2020, 11:17 AM
Jan 2020

At what point would Chief Justice Roberts start to render opinions on how this trial is being conducted? If he's concerned about decorum, shouldn't he be asked about Republican absenteeism during the trial, or Trump's jury tampering by threatening to have their "heads on pikes", or this question of subpoena power?

Pepsidog

(6,252 posts)
17. Roberts could exert enormous influence in this process. Who is going to stop him? Hard to believe he
Sun Jan 26, 2020, 12:36 PM
Jan 2020

could just sit there and say and do nothing. He presides over the trial. Sounds like he has broad authority to act as if he sees fit. He is untouchable.

2naSalit

(86,054 posts)
8. As that slimebag
Sun Jan 26, 2020, 11:01 AM
Jan 2020

steve bannon told us way back in 2017, the intent is to destroy the country. They are really working hard on it.

Scarsdale

(9,426 posts)
13. Putin sits back and smirks.
Sun Jan 26, 2020, 11:23 AM
Jan 2020

He is taking over the destruction of the US (with help from the gop) without a single bullet, or missile being used. He recognized the greed, and the stupidity of both politicians and voters long before even tRump did. I am not sure tRump knows to this day. He firmly believes he got where he is through hard work(!!) and sheer genius (Jenius)

 

packman

(16,296 posts)
11. Strange isn't it - all those Repukes can cite the 2nd Amendment word for word
Sun Jan 26, 2020, 11:20 AM
Jan 2020

But can't seem to understand what the House has to do with impeachments and subpoenas written on the same piece of parchment.

Pepsidog

(6,252 posts)
19. Great point.My wife asks will it ever be back to normal and I say yes when Dems are back in control.
Sun Jan 26, 2020, 12:43 PM
Jan 2020
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