****LIVE IMPEACHMENT TRIAL 1/27/20 THREAD 5****

[BumRushDaShow]

Thread 1 - https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212915852
Thread 2 - https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212916276
Thread 3 - https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212916812
Thread 4 - https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212917168

[BumRushDaShow]

1. Robert Ray (who worked with Starr back during the Clinton impeachment) is discussing the issue

of impeachment.

[BumRushDaShow]

2. Ray is being disingenous about Vindman - Vindman was a member of the National Security Council

like a pile of other, specially selected people.

[underpants]

3. SPACE FORCE reference!!!

[Kali]

4. they are so awful

[MerryBlooms]

8. !

[underpants]

5. Hit at the NYT 1619 reporting series

Why?

Oh... yeah... that. He's referenced Space Force AND slavery tonight.

[BumRushDaShow]

6. This guy is

[nolabear]

7. I swear to god I've aged five years in the last two weeks.

I can’t feel my face. My brain is dripping out my ears. Irony is dead at my feet and optimism said to write if there’s any reason to come back.

So help me when this asshole and alllll the little assholes around him are gone I’m going to party to DANGEROUS levels!

[BumRushDaShow]

10. You and me both!

[MerryBlooms]

12. yippee ki-yay!

[nolabear]

14. So far I haven't drunk much. This may change tonight.

🍸🥃🍷🍾🥂🍹🍻

[MerryBlooms]

126. I drink a little Merlot while I make supper, but that's it.

No wine with dinner or after, just not much of a drinker these days. Used to enjoy a nice bourbon and a cigar, but hard alcohol gives me a horrible headache after 20 minutes of drinking now and I quit smoking. Sigh

[nolabear]

128. Remember when we were young and could abuse our bodies?

Ah well...😂

[MerryBlooms]

130. Yeah, the good ol' days!

And, if we fell down, we laughed, everyone laughed... hell, now everyone panics and asks if we're okay and we're wondering if we broke a hip!

[nolabear]

133. 😂😂😂 And if you do get high you're "cute."

Trust me. I’ll cut a bitch.

[MerryBlooms]

134. After all the shit trump's faux lawyers pulled, I have no

idea why I'm in such a good mood. Not drunk, don't do weed... must be delirious or these awesome eggrolls.

[PatSeg]

13. I'm going to go watch something else

and come back later and let the talking heads tell me what I missed. I just can't listen to them one more minute. The people on MSNBC get paid to sit through this torture!

[crickets]

30. Same. I'm out of steam, but the commentary here is appreciated.

There's only so much lying a person can stomach in one go. My hat's off to everyone still listening.

[PatSeg]

47. I'm not even hearing them anymore

Its like the adults in a Charlie Brown cartoon, just a much of unintelligible noise.

[riversedge]

9. Ray is basically arguing that Trumps behavior is not impeachable.

[BumRushDaShow]

11. That's been one of their assertions

[BumRushDaShow]

15. Whining about ceremony pens and other frivolous stuff continues to mean

they have nothing to refute the facts.

[nolabear]

16. If they acquit that SOB I'm going off the media grid. I can't stand it.

I’ll never make it.

[elleng]

28. ditto

[Kali]

34. uh...I am way more cynical

and too addicted to the tubes to make promise like that...they are going to let him off and he is going to be even MORE of an asshole

[nolabear]

48. That's what I do t want to see. That level of lying assholery.

[Kali]

51. oh got ya

I won't give up anything for that fucker, but I can limit direct exposure to him pretty easily

[BumRushDaShow]

17. He's done. Now Suckylow is bringing on Dershowitz

[riversedge]

20. I have heard all of Derks stupid arguments -he made the rounds a week ago or so.

I need a break anyway.

[BumRushDaShow]

25. But also add to that all the OPPOSITE arguments he made in the past!

[nolabear]

18. Oh ffffffffffffffffffffDershowitz. I can't. I just can't.

[Kali]

19. dershowear the perv is up

[nolabear]

21. ALL FUTURE PRESIDENTS????

[Mersky]

23. WTH?

[BumRushDaShow]

22. Why would Dershowitz bringing up Hillary have anything to do with this?

[underpants]

32. Trying to establish his impartiality

Dershbag

[BumRushDaShow]

36. Exactly

It's like when he was on MSNBC a couple weeks ago and kept saying he was a "liberal Democrat".

[ecstatic]

24. This perverted, Epstein defending POS expects us to believe he voted for Hillary Clinton?

Give me a MF break!!

[Hermit-The-Prog]

26. It's the Defense By The Dregs! dis one has der shitz of der mouth

[nolabear]

27. Gather round, kids! Uncle Alan's gonna tell you a story!

[BumRushDaShow]

31. More like a "fractured fairytale"

[Arkansas Granny]

37. OMG. I used to love those! My kids didn't get the joke much of the time,

but I thought they were hilarious.

[BumRushDaShow]

38. I think as kids get older

they eventually "get it". It's like Sponge Bob. All kinds of double-entendres going on with that.

[better]

95. The show may be about Spongebob, but we all know Patrick is the star.

I'll show myself out now!

[BumRushDaShow]

98. LOL

That will make Gary jealous!

[nolabear]

49. Where's Edward Everett Horton when you need him?

[Kali]

29. to be fair, since I made a catty remark about Blondi's clothes...

WTF? talk about ill fitting suits...is he taking fashion hints from his client? need to get a tighter collar so it forms that neckgina.

[dweller]

46. was listening on radio when he came up

i pictured him an oversized MAGA boxer shorts, and a tie ..
😳
and nobody blinked

✌🏼

[Kali]

50. seems like a tighty whitey type to me

[crickets]

33. Ah, Smithers! There you are!

Dershowitz has this evil genius hand gesture and sway going on. That's going to make people seasick pretty quickly.

[IcyPeas]

35. he's losing me for reading too fast

I hate when they "read"

(thom hartmann does this on his radio show and it drives me crazy"

[Hermit-The-Prog]

39. jabberjabberjabber the oligarchs are fine with trumPutin getoverit jabberjabberjabber

[ecstatic]

40. A pedofile is lecturing to us from the Senate floor, in defense of criminal trump. So much for that

"most deliberative body" in the world crap that Roberts spewed the other day. Unbelievable! Turning to the Bachelor.

[MFGsunny]

41. Dersh*twizz invents a parody of Orwell's 1984 and Lord of the Flies.

WTF.

Why or why do we have to suffer thru this meddlesome wannabe-priest?

[BumRushDaShow]

42. OFFS

He ends up blowing up the WH's other argument of a President not permitted to be charged with a crime while in office - per the OLC.

So it completes the circle - the President has to commit a crime to be impeached but then he can't be impeached due to a crime because he can't be charged.

[crickets]

52. That peculiar circular logic does encapsulate their argument, however. nt

[BumRushDaShow]

64. It's interesting how more and more, they "operate in the moment" and have no concern

about the future should they go down that "in the moment" path. That is how Drumpf has always operated and the GOP has become him now.

[Kali]

43. bullshit

what a load of utter bullshit

[BumRushDaShow]

44. OMG THAT was a mistake - to invoke Maxine

They better look out because she is gonna come for him now.

[nolabear]

45. I think they know Bolton's got him. This whole thing is spaghetti at the wall.

Damn, Dershowitz giving opinion as fact. I envision minions all over high fiving and swearing they know what he’s talking about.

[Zoonart]

55. Now It's Garbage!

[BumRushDaShow]

57. Yup.

All of this will be forgotten and blend in with the rest of the nonsense they presented today once Bolton starts really ratcheting up his book tease.

From what I think I heard on MSNBC earlier today, the WH review of the transcript for yay or nay of "classified info" has a deadline of January 30. And if they don't act by then, then the material will be published "as is".

[Zoonart]

62. Tick..tick...tick...

[Greywing]

60. This defense so far is no defense ... nothing about except personal opinions

absolutely no facts. Sorry Dershowitz - I don't care about the impeachment of Johnson. Everything he is citing is before automobiles, solar energy, telephones and internet. I care about THIS presidents actions and his obstruction of Congress and other high crimes and misdemeanors. Trump has committed crimes ... their argument is moot!

[Hermit-The-Prog]

53. Dershits is still lecturing on how the Constitution is not framed.

[underpants]

59. Ooh he has an old book with a pink post it note.

[BumRushDaShow]

67. He even called that a "dusty old book"

[underpants]

54. Background on Dershowitz's mention of "maladministration"

The convention adopted “high crimes and misdemeanors” with little discussion. Most of the framers knew the phrase well. Since 1386, the English parliament had used “high crimes and misdemeanors” as one of the grounds to impeach officials of the crown. Officials accused of “high crimes and misdemeanors” were accused of offenses as varied as misappropriating government funds, appointing unfit subordinates, not prosecuting cases, not spending money allocated by Parliament, promoting themselves ahead of more deserving candidates, threatening a grand jury, disobeying an order from Parliament, arresting a man to keep him from running for Parliament, losing a ship by neglecting to moor it, helping “suppress petitions to the King to call a Parliament,” granting warrants without cause, and bribery. Some of these charges were crimes. Others were not. The one common denominator in all these accusations was that the official had somehow abused the power of his office and was unfit to serve.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212883500

[femmedem]

63. And Madison later argued impeachment was warranted for "wanton removal of meritorious officers."

But was high crimes and misdemeanors truly less vague than maladministration? As Healy notes, in the Commentaries on the Laws of England, a legal reference book that Madison said was “in every man’s hand” at the Convention, the first example given of a “high misdemeanor” was, yes, maladministration. And later, as a member of Congress, Madison would argue that the president could and should be impeached for the “wanton removal of meritorious officers.”

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/10/24/20926891/high-crimes-and-misdemeanors-trump-impeachment-whitaker

[underpants]

69. Thank you.

I love reading this type thing.

[crickets]

77. Thank both of you; that was very interesting and informative.

It's much more than I can say for the hand-flapping windbag on mute in the background.

[femmedem]

84. Dershowitz is gaslighting us re Madison's belief about what constitutes an impeachable offense.

Removal of Yavonovitch would have met his definition:

"Madison’s defense of the president’s power to remove officers like the secretary of foreign affairs, however, came with an important caveat. At one point, Madison acknowledged the “danger” that the president could “displace from office a man whose merits require that he should be continued in it.” For such an “abuse of his power” and “mal-administration,” however, Madison responded that the Constitution built in a safety valve: impeachment. As he put it, “the wanton removal of meritorious officers would subject [the president] to impeachment and removal from his own high trust.”

This is from https://www.theusconstitution.org/news/op-ed-trump-can-be-impeached-for-removing-marie-yovanovitch/

[nolabear]

56. Right this minute Dershowitz thinks he's going down in history

when in reality he’s just going down.

[Mersky]

58. Once presidents across this nation start leveraging congressional funds

against foreign governments for political gain then common law may resolve to federal statutes.

Til then, the Senate can start with our one pResident and say that the pResident can’t misuse military aid to help his reelection prospects, and can further say his actions functionally arise to a form of attempted bribery (aka the abuses of power) only achievable at the presidential level. There is no referring to the statutes, because they don’t apply presidentially.

And no, dersh, I’m not going through the looking glass with you and I’m not smoking what you’re pushing. I disagree that the only way to save our democratic ways is to turn the country into a de facto dictatorship. So, iow, he can just EAT ME.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

66. imagine Dershits with a big, red, rubber nose and waving a wiggly conductor's wand

He's trying to get Russiapublican Senators to sway with him.

[Mersky]

74. "We're full of shit, so you must acquit."

Liked that quip of yours from thread #3. Needs reiterating now that dersh is up.

[underpants]

68. He's read ALL relevant historical literature

All of it. Every little bit.

[Mersky]

70. Lol. Indeed.

[nolabear]

61. Not the old yellowed book! What will we dooooooooo???

How do you think those hundred Senators like have the Constitution lectures to them as though they were first year law?

[underpants]

65. He's advancing the idea that a President can't be impeached

Or at least that the Founding Father's weren't 100% in agreement on it.

[underpants]

71. He's mentioned Lawrence Tribe twice

He seems to hold Tribe in enough esteem to mention him.

[Greywing]

72. Since he has mentioned Lawrence Tribe, I think Lawrence Tribe

should be able to rebut Dershowitz's testimony

[Roland99]

90. Speaking of Tribe. And Dersh said abuse of power is not impeachable

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5df1f7b9e4b06a50a2ea5211

Tribe, appearing on MSNBC’s “All In with Chris Hayes” said some Republicans were “missing the point” by claiming abuse of power (one of two articles of impeachment that House Democrats have released against Trump, the other being obstruction of Congress) is “not a crime.”

“It is the highest crime against the Constitution,” said Tribe. “And in this case the impeachment articles are carefully written to show the aggregating circumstances.”

“This isn’t just using the president’s power to benefit himself,” Tribe added. “But it’s doing that in a way that endangers our national security and that corrupts the electoral process by inviting foreign involvement.”

[BumRushDaShow]

73. NYT continues to drip drip drip stuff from Bolton's book

Link to tweet

(right as he starts talking about Bolton's book)

[Kali]

76. he just brought it up!

the Bolton manuscript!

[BumRushDaShow]

79. Yup. It's the bombshell he had to try to swat away

but it ain't going nowhere.

[elleng]

75. AHA, he said it, BOLTON!!!

'NOT grounds for impeachment.'

[BumRushDaShow]

78. He has to address it

NYT literally just had a breaking news banner with more dribs and drabs from the book.

[nolabear]

80. Okay I'll forgive anybody who falls asleep here.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

85. tv has been muted (with cc) all day, except for Schumer during 15 min recess

[Kali]

122. ooo is there a clip of that somewhere?

I was stuck listening to all the ex-Democrats calling in to c-span to say how we should just support the president.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

131. it was on PBS but I don't know if it would be a separate video

Schumer refuted everything they had said to that point.

[Kali]

132. Ok I will check there, thanks

I saw one yesterday, but haven't found anything for today yet.

edit: think I found today's - https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/watch-schiff-says-boltons-testimony-is-relevant-to-trumps-trial

or this before the session today

[Hermit-The-Prog]

135. that was earlier

What I saw was during the 15 minute recess, out in the hall, with reporters around him. He was fired up about what the defense was doing.

[BumRushDaShow]

81. He's completely deflecting with everything he can that doesn't address the charges.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

86. somehow he just got Congress above the law because of idunno

[BumRushDaShow]

89. Obfuscating.

[Roland99]

82. Wtf?? Climate change policy is not impeachable

Hooookay

[Arkansas Granny]

83. Climate change?? Where did that come from? No one has mentioned impeaching

Trump because of his views on climate change.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

88. I thought we were impeaching him over skin color and hairspray.

[BumRushDaShow]

87. Now he is going be condescending and lecture a table of lawyers

including Schiff who was a Harvard Law grad.

[MFGsunny]

101. oh sure, more argumentum ad ignorantiam & reductio ad absurdum from him

This Constitutional Charlatan got down to contempt and kept digging.

Can we say it again :: "if you didn't know; now you know?"

[Hermit-The-Prog]

91. oh, to spin the camera and see the House managers ...

How many face-palms? How many laughing behind hands? How many absolute "wtf" expressions?

Dersh the Distractor makes little sense.

[BumRushDaShow]

92. I'm sure they are passing notes like crazy

[Roland99]

93. "I am non partisan "

Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

*deeep breath*

Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

[Gidney N Cloyd]

114. He's partisan to having Trump keep him out of jail on the Epstein stuff.

[BumRushDaShow]

94. He's is now getting to the closing.

Finally...

[Hermit-The-Prog]

96. don't be giving false hope and promises!

[BumRushDaShow]

103. LOL

He did end but then Cippycup wanted the last word!

[Hermit-The-Prog]

108. and spoke over Roberts to do it!

[Kali]

97. well I actually agree with him on the shoe/other foot

question...eh, repukes?

[BumRushDaShow]

99. He's done and Cippycup came up right when Roberts was about to end but....

[nolabear]

105. And tries to make it make sense.

“No really, it was smart and stuff!”

[BumRushDaShow]

109. He's gotta put the loon talking points back out there

[Greywing]

110. WTH ... "as you sit thru thiss clas?"

bonus question? WTF

[nolabear]

100. Oh god, the ass kissing begins.

[Roland99]

102. Keep this in mind as he finally finishes

Link to tweet

Dershowitz is a criminal defense lawyer, not a constitutional scholar. That’s why he represented Jeffery Epstein, OJ, & Claus von Bulow. 17 constitutional law professors wrote an open letter explaining that his #impeachment defense defies legal consensus.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

104. nope. you can't sip bologna. just ain't logical. he needs a new name.

[UniteFightBack]

106. Are they going to wrap up right in time for Hannity's shit sham show? nt

[Hermit-The-Prog]

112. hadn't thought of that -- could be so trumPutin can see his favorite asskisser

[underpants]

107. Derschbag bows to the Republicans

Off

[Arkansas Granny]

111. All this bluster and they still haven't defended Trump. They can't do it.

[Greywing]

113. You've got that right ... they are not going to present any evidence

of innocence because there is none. Just arguing procedure.

[BumRushDaShow]

115. Finally. Turtle adjourning until tomorrow January 28th.

[BumRushDaShow]

116. ***ADJOURNED FOR THE DAY UNTIL 1:00PM ET TUESDAY JAN. 28,2020***

[Kali]

120. thanks for doing these threads

I try to hit recommend on all of themm but not sure I have actually said thanks for this round (the actual trial) yet!

[underpants]

117. Imagine if the age of Impeachment's was over

From Starr to Dershbag to The closing that seems to have been the theme today.

[elleng]

118. Adjourned

[BumRushDaShow]

119. Thank you everyone for joining in and contributing!!!

[Mersky]

121. Thank you, BumRush!

Whew, whatta day. I kinda lost focus mid afternoon when I was all awash in ridiculousness they were putting forth. But you just kept right on going.

[BumRushDaShow]

123. I guess I was glad

That the zoo crew from the House wasn't up there.

[Mersky]

124. Somehow, I found this way worse

Will reconsider my approach for tomorrow.

[BumRushDaShow]

125. They were droning

but what I understand, a decision had been made that they couldn't do a circus sideshow because "they were in the Senate and that kind of thing didn't play well there."

[Mersky]

127. Was rather offended by raskin

And I just never quite bounced back. Not entirely on her, I’d just had enough by the end of her section. Is tough seeing a parade of lawyers debase history, law, and the Constitution, etc. They really should be better than this.

[lunasun]

129. Thank you once again ❤️