Should HRC have been declared the winner with a popular vote win?

[Tiggeroshii]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by JudyM (a host of the General Discussion forum).

13 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Poll closed
	Yes
	7 (54%)
	No
	6 (46%)
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[krissey]

1. You are cute. I can appreciate this. Lol.

[Tiggeroshii]

2. .

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. By whom?

It doesn't work that way.

[TexasTowelie]

4. The candidates know the rules for both the primary and general election.

However, if you want to engage in this exercise, why not eliminate all caucuses and determine the Democratic Party nominee by the aggregate number of voters across the country rather than awarding delegates for each state?

[RandySF]

7. The Sanders campaign LOVED caucuses in 2016.

[TwilightZone]

11. Because Sanders would lose.

He and his supporters want to pick and choose how state elections operate, based on how well he does in them.

Iowa is a perfect example. The Sanders campaign insisted the caucus be kept in place and demanded rule changes, then when that didn't work out, just ignored the end result and declared victory based on a preliminary vote.

[jcmaine72]

5. Of course. A healthy democracy shouldn't function any other way.

[RandySF]

6. No, and I know where you're going with this

We all know the general election rules under the Constitution and we'll never fully know the extent to which the Russians, Comey letter, Wikileaks and Jill Stein contributed to the loss. Thus, we have no legal basis to overturn the 2016 election. All we can do going forward is abolish the electoral for general election and caucuses (which the Sanders campaign ABSOLUTELY LOVED in 2016) for the nominating process.

[Midnightwalk]

8. No we need an amendment to change the rules

[TwilightZone]

9. Nope.

That's not how it works.

A better question would be: should how it works be changed?

[alphafemale]

10. Changing the Constitution is not done by poll.

That's not how it works.

[Sherman A1]

12. How would you accomplish this stated goal?

I know of no means to do so.

[CaptYossarian]

13. Everyone who's posted so far was so serious.

I responded through wishful thinking. I know the other side will never change the law that works in their favor.

[TheCowsCameHome]

14. Yes, the United Nations let us down again.

They failed miserably.

[Tom Rinaldo]

15. No, but no one here ever hesitates to proclaim that Clinton won the PV by 3 million

We all know the technical rules but that doesn't stop us from proclaiming that Trump's election lacks moral legitimacy because the American people soundly voted for Clinton over Trump.

[DFW]

16. I would word the question differently:

"Should HRC have been the winner with a popular vote win?"

Ab so fuckin' LUTELY!

[gollygee]

17. It wasn't a general election so it isn't really the same

but in my opinion Bernie and Pete really pretty much tied. It seems like a toss-up to me.

As for Clinton, I wish we used popular vote because I think that's more fair, but you can't change the rules after the fact to make your candidate win either.

[democrattotheend]

23. Exactly

I think both Bernie and Pete earned the right to declare victory in Iowa, because Democratic primaries are not winner take all and they both got almost the same number of delegates and I think the popular vote matters some in the primaries, at least in terms of momentum and narrative. The EC, on the other hand, is winner take all and every state votes on the same day, so winning the popular vote is pretty meaningless.

[Blue_Tires]

18. No, because there was no provision in the rules to do so

Having said that, the EC *is* 100% trash and if there isn't absolute abolishment, then the math behind it needs a serious re-work.

It's already fucked us twice in our lifetimes... How many more times are we willing to accept?

[ismnotwasm]

19. Have some Slipknot

[Shrek]

20. Sure, why not?

But declaring it doesn't actually have any effect.

[tritsofme]

21. What is this supposed to mean? The winner of our hearts? lol

[democrattotheend]

22. Yes and no

Yes, presidential elections should be decided by popular vote. But since they are not, she should not have been declared the winner because she didn't win under the system we currently have.

[JudyM]

24. Locking.

Alerted on, primaries => DP forum