What happens November 4th? Even if it's a blowout in favor of Dems, will he leave?

[Dennis Donovan]

The morning after the election (November 4), how will Trump react to a crushing loss? Will he accept it and plan his exit on Jan 20, 2021? Or, will he use Barr's DoJ to challenge results, trump up conspiracy theories of voter fraud (w/ Barr manufacturing evidence to prop up this narrative)?

This is incredibly fucking serious. 2 years ago, I thought it unthinkable. But, now that DoJ is completely compromised (and the US Senate is, as well), I think it's likely.

Link to tweet

Bill Kristol ✔@BillKristol

An American president suggesting there’s massive election fraud. Will Trump accept his defeat on Nov. 3? Are we—from his own Cabinet to Congress to major civic institutions—ready for him if he tries not to?

Aaron Rupar ✔@atrupar

"We should have won the election, but they had buses being being shipped up from Massachusetts. Hundreds and hundreds of buses" -- Trump pushes a completely unfounded conspiracy theory about massive election fraud costing him New Hampshire in 2016

Embedded video

7:54 PM - Feb 10, 2020

This will not end well. Wish I were wrong.

[Iliyah]

1. No.

[Miguelito Loveless]

27. Agreed

No way in Hell. If it looks bad, he will directly interfere in yhe elections. If he loses he will claim fraud, and GOP/ SCOTUS will back him.

[democratisphere]

2. When drumpf loses, it will be scorched earth with total chaos

thrown in for good measure. The men in the white coats with the straight jacket need to be standing by.

[brush]

29. Yes, to drag his fat, orange ass out.

[EndlessWire]

70. I read that is what Hitler did from his bunker.

Ordered all of Germany to be destroyed. Looking for the link. Of course, the aide that received the order ignored it.

[TheCowsCameHome]

3. However it ends depends on him.

He can make it difficult or easy.

Either way, his pasty white ass will be gone one way or the other.

[BlueTsunami2018]

4. He'll have to leave.

Unless he can get the military to favor him in an outright coup, he’ll have no choice. Oh, he’ll bitch and moan and throw conspiracies but he won’t be able to legally stay in power if, and that’s the sticking point, he loses. You know they’re bending over backwards right now to do everything possible to rig the election. I have little faith that this will be fair at all and the fix is probably already in. Just as it was in 2016.

We need the numbers to be so overwhelming that a fix would be blatantly obvious. If it’s as close as it was last time, we’re in real trouble.

[Dennis Donovan]

10. You're predicating that on a functioning DOJ and Senate

Barr is already OPENLY conducting an illegitimate investigation into Joe and Hunter Biden, *despite* both being repeatedly cleared of wrongdoing. He opened a pipeline for Giuliani to feed disinfo about the Bidens directly to HIM. He's 100% compromised.

The US Military is answerable to the POTUS, and POTUS alone. There is no mechanism in place should the C in C go rogue, other than DoJ and *both* houses of Congress (via Impeachment or use of the 25th amendment - the first remedy failed due to a compromised Senate and the second wouldn't get off the ground since it requires several cabinet officers to sign off on it).

The peaceful transfer of power can ONLY take place if both the outgoing and incoming POTUS allow it to happen. Outgoing POTUS will never let it happen and will utilize McConnell's Senate and Barr's DoJ to do all in its power to create enough chaos around the election (and aftermath) to de-legitimatize it.

[Fiendish Thingy]

60. The House certifies the Electoral College- Dems Control the House

Once the EC vote has been certified, any judge can swear in the new president on January 20.

These continued unrealistic nightmare fantasies of Trump remaining in office after losing the election are really growing tiresome. Yes, he will sow chaos during the lame duck period from November to January. Unless the Senate is willing to allow him to take the Stock market to zero, destroy the worlds economy, and start a nuclear war, the damage he can do will be limited and he will be gone January 21.

[dware]

62. This is what? Like the 3rd or 4th thread

on this?

It is getting tiresome.

This crap belongs in the CT section of DU, not the GD section.

[EndlessWire]

73. What is the CT section?

People are waking up to the loss of our Constitution. Trump isn't honoring his oath of office. People should know, and if they are unaware, then we should repeat it as often as possible. We have lost the Constitution.

There are a lot of things happening that no one would have believed. Still, it's happening. They elected a gangster, and that's the way he is behaving. I can't understand why people are thinking they are living in yesteryear, where the Constitution was the template for our freedom. Donald Trump is a dictator.

[dware]

82. Conspiracy Theory.

The Mango Menace is not a dictator, not in the true sense of the word, Adolph Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Nicolas Maduro, Mao Tse Tung, Idi Amin Dada, Fidel Castro were all dictators in the true sense of the word.

I get so sick and tired of people that don't know the true sense of the word and just throw it around without a fucking clue of what they're talking about.

Yes, he is a criminal, yes, he is a bully, yes, he is an asshole, but he's not a dictator, not in the true sense of the word.

[Dennis Donovan]

63. Hope you're right

...fear you're wrong though.

[Bettie]

5. He'll whine and then demand that

SCOTUS give him a Bush v. Gore type of ruling declaring that it would be damaging to him to not be president, so they toss him the "win" 5/4.

Then, he will crow about his stunning victory and have the elected president arrested for crimes against Dear Leader.

You may not be able to tell, but I have zero faith in the conservatives on the court.

Give me a day and I might feel more optimistic, but right now? Not able to do it.

Maybe coffee will help.

[struggle4progress]

15. The Constitution doesn't give SCOTUS that authority

[Miguelito Loveless]

28. Law doesn't matter

Also, see Bush v. Gore.

[struggle4progress]

39. Bush v Gore is not on-point

[Miguelito Loveless]

44. It is on point

The SCOTUS overturned the will of the people in DIRECT contravention of their own prior rulings.

Even if the SCOTUS were to rule against Trump (they won't, Roberts demonstrated that during the impeachment), he wouldl simply ignore it, as he has every other law since he assumed power. There is no crime that the GOP will not back at this point, including formal establishment of his de facto dictatorship.

[Bettie]

46. Yeah....you'd think that would matter

but I fear it doesn't anymore.

[LonePirate]

6. If he loses, he has no power at 12:01 pm on January 20, 2021. He can be escorted from office.

[Dennis Donovan]

12. By Barr's DoJ?

That's who it falls to.

[LonePirate]

14. Barr has no authority then, the new President does. DOJ is still an executive department.

Nothing to worry about with Barr.

[Dennis Donovan]

17. Not until January 20, 2 1/2 months after the election.

What happens before Jan 20?

[LonePirate]

18. And we have known that since 11/9/2016.

[Dennis Donovan]

30. The DoJ and Senate, two necessary components of a power transfer, are compromised

AG Barr was the game changer for Trump.

[dumbcat]

84. How are the DOJ and the Senate necessary components to the power transfer?

[lastlib]

37. "And I saw, and behold, a pale horse...."

"...and he that sat upon him, his name was Death; and Hell followed with him. And there was given unto them authority over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with famine, and with death, and by the wild beasts of the earth."

Get the picture?

[Ms. Toad]

71. That's a very different question,

from whether he leaves at the end of his term.

Once his term ends, he is powerless. Between the election and the end of his term he could be very destructive.

[mitch96]

52. "He can be escorted from office"

By who? If he has the DOj and the secret service in his pocket what entity will throw his ass out?
My fear is guns will be involved...
m

[dware]

56. On the inauguration of the new President,

the Mango Menace no longer has the DOJ or the Secret Service to do his bidding, the new President has that SOLE authority and would have the Mango Menace quickly removed by the US Marshals Service and/or the Secret Service.

Bottom line is the Mango Menace will leave the WH, how he goes is up to him, but, he will leave.

I can't believe some of the shit I read hear on DU, it seems that every election cycle, this comes up, it happened with B. Clinton, G. Bush, B. Obama, and now the Mango Menace.

People, please, just calm down and let's GOTV and defeat this mob boss in the WH.

[mitch96]

58. I'm of the hope for the best, expect the worse crowd... works for me every time... YMMV... nt

[NoMoreRepugs]

79. Agree, IF he loses he will not stay in power

one extra minute after new POTUS is sworn in.

[FloridaBlues]

7. He will be escorted out. Once new President sworn in.

Can't have 2 Presidents at the same time.
What's trump going to do tie himself to a poll?
Of course he will leave, and no we don't want him back in Florida somewhere else please.

[Dennis Donovan]

13. That would fall on the DoJ. Barr's DoJ. n/t

[Turin_C3PO]

65. US Marshalls

and Secret Service would escort him out, willingly or not.

[dumbcat]

85. The Secret Service does not fall under the DoJ.

[dware]

86. Correct.

I believe they fall under Homeland Security now.

[Dennis Donovan]

89. It would be US Marshalls if anyone were to forcibly remove him, not the Secret Service. n/t

[dware]

93. The Secret Service will indirectly help them,

as in they won't interfere because he's no longer the President.

[Dennis Donovan]

88. The Secret Service won't be the agency that ousts him

...it will have to be US Marshalls under the DoJ. The Secret Service provides protection.

[dware]

90. On on the day of the inauguration,

the Mango Menace will no longer be at the levers of control via the DoJ, that will be the SOLE responsibility of the new President, so he will be escorted off the property, how he goes will be up to him.

[Dennis Donovan]

92. So, do you think he will simply roll over after losing on 11/3?

Just go quietly into the night? You really don't think that Barr's DoJ will, on 11/4, do EVERYTHING in its power to retain that power?

I used to think it (him refusing to leave) was absurd as well. But, one thing I've seen that changed my mind is that there's a static pattern of behavior in which he completely denies of every accepted norm of our system of government. And that his DoJ is deeply corrupted (yesterday MORE than proved that) and cannot be trusted to do the right thing on 11/4.

I hope I'm wrong. But fear I'm correct.

[dware]

94. It doesn't matter if he rollls over or not,

on Jan. 20, 2021, whether or not Barr's DoJ attempts to muddy the waters, he will no longer be President and will be removed from the WH.

He has alienated so many people, that the US Marshal's Service will probably take great pleasure in throwing his mango ass out onto the street.

[dumbcat]

91. May not "have" to be US Marshalls

It could be considered an act of Homeland Security. The Secret Service protects the President (The new President). The USSS would be protecting the new President from an intruder in the White House. They are the logical force to remove the previous President, as they are already there, are armed, have the mission to protect the (new) President, and are responsible for White House physical security.

Besides, if they had to go up against anyone protecting the previous President, it would be rogues from their own agency. They would want to police their own house.

"The Secret Service also provides physical security for the White House Complex, the neighboring Treasury Department building, the vice president's residence, and all foreign diplomatic missions in Washington, D.C. The protective mission includes protective operations to coordinate manpower and logistics with state and local law enforcement, protective advances to conduct site and venue assessments for protectees, and protective intelligence to investigate all manners of threats made against protectees. The Secret Service is the lead agency in charge of the planning, coordination, and implementation of security operations for events designated as National Special Security Events (NSSEs). As part of the Service's mission of preventing an incident before it occurs, the agency relies on meticulous advance work and threat assessments developed by its Intelligence Division to identify potential risks to protectees.[5]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Secret_Service

[lastlib]

38. Myself and about a million of my friends will be there to DRAG him out.

If he won't leave peacefully, the easy way, he can go the HARD way. His choice.

[EndlessWire]

74. Yep. n/t

[smb]

8. They Should Strap Him To A Roller Board, Hannibal Lecter Style nt

[dlk]

9. If Trump is not re-elected, he will use the lame duck period to wreck as much damage as possible

It would not be an understatement to say all hell will break loose.

[Coleman]

11. He probably has a doomsday plan for when he loses (I don't think he will lose)

His cabinet will issue orders that will case chaos, and scorched earth. More and more appointments with Senate rapid approval, firing of long time employees of the departments and replaced by trumpsters. The State Department will be unrecognizable and still push trump foreign "policy."

[USALiberal]

16. Wouldn't the secret service remove him like they would any other intruder? nt

[spinbaby]

19. I'm beginning to worry that we'll have an election at all

Trump and his minions will find or manufacture a crisis that gives them an excuse to postpone elections.

[bearsfootball516]

54. Elections are state run. No federal power.

[dware]

59. It's amazing how many people don't know that.

Aren't civics taught in schools anymore?

[spinbaby]

66. A little thing like that won't stop them

When have rules ever stopped Trump? If he’s down in the polls, there will be a national quarantine or something. I no longer think anything is beneath them.

[Blue_Tires]

20. I would personally *WALK* to D.C.

and physically remove that entire trash-ass family from the White House. It'll be up to them if they prefer to walk out or be carried out.

[Dennis Donovan]

21. They could declare some sort of faux emergency and cordon off the WH for blocks

Back in 2013, a few days after the Boston Marathon bombing, I was in DC and you couldn't get anywhere near the WH. From the Ellipse thru Lafayette Square, it was all shut off to the public. Pennsylvania Ave in front of the WH was cordoned off as well.

[Blue_Tires]

22. So we'd just have to out-think them, then

which isn't difficult.

[Dennis Donovan]

24. Our only hope against a powerful, but stupid POTUS

[lastlib]

80. Numbers would be in our favor.....

WE will take him down.

[Javaman]

23. as I have said before...

it will take a swat team.

many jumped all over me a several months ago when I first stated this as "not being serious".

I'm very serious and as each and every day goes by, it's becoming very clear that a swat team will be what is needed.

given the fact that the orange asshole knows, once he's out of office, he's totally fucked and has no more protections. he will die a very poor man and that is exactly what he wants to prevent. going down in history as a loser crook who was finally taken to the cleaners.

he will do every damn thing with in his crooked crony system to make sure he never ever leaves office.

[Dennis Donovan]

26. Before the impeachment, I still had faith in the mechanisms of our Govt

Now? Not at all. He's become the most powerful POTUS in history because he coordinated with the US Senate and simply took the power he had available to him (without an ethical or moral thought to it).

[Rider3]

25. He won't go quietly...

or with a shred of integrity. He'll scream "FRAUD" and will file frivolous law suits.

[Poiuyt]

31. I predict that he'll leave office but will lead a worldwide fascist movement that will lead

to global unrest. There will be race riots, religious crusades, and maybe a war.

[2naSalit]

32. There's always hope that

he might drop dead from an aneurysm or a stroke or heart attack.

[vlyons]

33. Watch how the Electoral College votes get certified.

That is what determines who wins. I am confident that even if Trump barricades the WH, there are more than enough Fed judges ready and willing to swear in the next POTUS in Jan 2021. After which it's a simple matter for the next POTUS to send in the US marshalls to escort Trump from the WH. Let's hope the head butler counts all the silverware.

And then we can all dance in the street!

[vlyons]

34. Between the election and the next swearing in

the next POTUS will have his own task force vetting cabinet positions. All Trump's appointees will be fired on Day 1.

[Cairycat]

35. Personally, I'm praying he'll stroke out before then

or his bad habits will catch up with him some way

[Dennis Donovan]

42. Between you and I...

...me too.

[flamingdem]

36. Our focus needs to be voter suppression

and hacking. We need to win, then he'll be dragged out screaming.

[BeckyDem]

41. +1

[Dennis Donovan]

43. We should definitely continue with "get out the vote" efforts and fight suppression

...but what if there's *massive* disruptions on election day (with vote totals, hacking, maybe even physical intimidation)? Could Barr's DoJ simply say the results are not to be trusted, setting into motion a flurry of lawsuits, etc?

One official who will likely be fired before this fall is Chris Wray. He's one of the few higher-ups in DoJ left with any integrity. Watch this space...

[flamingdem]

45. I hope the DNC is gaming out all scenarios

We must expect the worst here. Part of me is leaning Bloomberg because he's got that financial power to pay for people to work on the transition scenario. Lawyers, lots of them.

[BeckyDem]

40. I want us to win the senate so bad. Republicans MUST be crushed out.

Let him try and stay, it will not work. We will show up in DC at the White House until he is gone. He has to vacate on inauguration day.

[Arthur_Frain]

47. This falls under the category of "It's good to keep in mind, but...."

We have a shit ton to do before it ever gets to that point. I’ll worry about it when I get there.

[Malmsy]

48. We have to flood the streets. Nothing less will do. (eom)

[ooky]

49. I'm not smart enough to reasonably predict

how it will turn out if he tries to stay after losing the election. Sure, not leaving after he loses is unconstitutional. But as long as he has Barr and McTurdle he's been getting away with things that are unconstitutional, so who really knows? But I would bet the farm that he will TRY to stay.

The other thing I expect, is once (if) he realizes it's not going to work, he will RUN. The coward will run to avoid facing repercussions for all his crimes during the time he has spent squatting in the White House. At some point before the inauguration of our new Democratic leader he will fly off on Air Force One, and then Air Force One will return without him.

[Dennis Donovan]

50. He'll definitely try to get out of the country once he's actually out

...but I fear that's his biggest motive for staying IN power - knowing what awaits when he leaves.

[kimbutgar]

51. Yes and those generals will help escort him out on January 21st

What he did do Vindman and pardoning that navy seal. The military top brass are pissed by cadet bone spurs.

[mokawanis]

53. Of course he will leave

and then he'll be on twitter all day every day, screaming that he was the best president ever and that the election was rigged.

[LeftinOH]

55. He won't concede. After the expected conspiracy theories about

busloads of illegal immigrants being sent in to vote against him - and about Democrat voters wearing disguises to vote multiple times, he will double-down on the crazy. Then he'll claim that he has the military, militia groups, and gun owners on his side, and that the "overwhelming majority of Americans" re-elected him.

After a few weeks of this shit-show, and growing public pressure to put up or shut up, and to f*cking act like an adult - he'll abruptly vacate the White House for Mar-A-Lago, leaving the Executive branch empty. Pence will unofficially serve as acting Executive until the new President is sworn it. Trump won't attend the inauguration.

[dware]

61. Your's is the most likely scenario.

He'll act like a petulant child, but he will leave, how he leaves is his choice, but leave he will.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

81. That wouldn't surprise me a bit. The rest of this "what if he won't leave" stuff is just silly.

[dware]

57. Yes, he will leave,

how he goes is his choice, but leave he will.

[maryellen99]

64. He's also going to pardon people who have no business being pardoned a la Matt Bevin nt

[mitch96]

67. If he does bug out I think he will go to a tRump hotel in a country that does not have extradition..

[EndlessWire]

68. We have to

hold the House and take back the Senate. Then hold on for the shitstorm that will happen when Trump et al try to cloudy up the election results. And then, finally, he can be offered either leave on your own, or be escorted out by an an armed detail.

I'd recommend a perp walk: tell the media which door he is being escorted out of, and give them time to get there. Vindman Bros say hi.

[kskiska]

69. He'll demand recount after recount

and drag it out through December and beyond until he gets the result he wants.

[kentuck]

72. Catch him at the golf course and change the locks.

Place two US Marshals at each door and give him a restraining order when he returns.

Escort him to his helicopter and put him on a plane to NY or Mar-a-Lago and tell him to never show up in Washington again.

Since he will be a private citizen, be ready to make an immediate arrest.

[BigDemVoter]

75. I sincerely hope the orange hog refuses.

I want to see that goddamned pig DRAGGED out of the White House by his feet with his orange fucking head bouncing on the sidewalk with him screaming how "unfair" it is. . . THAT would give me pleasure.

[dewsgirl]

76. No Way, did you read Rick Wilson's book? He covers this scenario

in it...of course it's humorous and witty in the book.

[Kurt V.]

77. after today's news in the stone case... nope he ain't leaving.

trump said he had *every right* to intervene

[Chemisse]

78. Hell, I'm afraid he will cancel the election!

I don't know if he could make that happen, but it would be the best option for him.

Any excuse will do. Some 'national emergency.'

[dware]

83. He can't cancel the elections,

they're state run, the executive branch has nothing to do with it.

[Chemisse]

95. That is reassuring. n/t

[LiberalFighter]

87. Just tell Trump that at his last physical he was hypnotized.

Given an implant that will implode if he stays in the WH past Jan 20th, 2021. As part of being hypnotized he was given a suggestion that he would not feel or see the incision.