Rick Wilson book: Dems should set up "Q" candidates/party to strip votes from GOP

[EveHammond13]

following the model the GOP used with "Green Party" candidates in critical races

fake Q party to drag trump and others from the right, cause disruption

and it's even fairly cheap and very cost effective

[dewsgirl]

1. He had a lot of good advice in the book, filled with the witt

and humor we've come to expect from Rick Wilson.

[renate]

7. yes, that book was really interesting and, I hope, useful--he knows what he's talking about

I hope, and assume, that people at the DNC will pay attention to this insider's view of the GOP's dirty tricks and how to fend them off.

[TwilightZone]

2. Not sure there is anything to the right of Trump.

Certainly not on the authoritarian scale, outside of fascism.

The right and the left are very different.

On the left, there's room to the left of liberals and Democrats for extremism to cause conflict, plus there's always some built-in conflict because of factionalism and a rather persistent lack of organization because we're a big tent.

On the right, the extremists are the mainstream, they act as though they have a hive mind, and there's not much room available to be nuttier or more disruptive than Trump already is.

[Newest Reality]

4. +1

[EveHammond13]

5. it's not a genuine attack. it's anything ginned up to cause trouble.

[TwilightZone]

6. I'm not sure how that could be accomplished, though.

When the target's entire MO is chaos and extremism, what would be an effective tool? Trump is best countered by mocking him, as Bloomberg is demonstrating, and I'm not sure how one would do that from the right.

He pretty much proved during the primaries that attacks from the right are ineffective, even real ones. It's difficult to out-chaos the master.

[jberryhill]

3. Uh... the GOP already IS a "Q" candidate party

Just like with birtherism, Obama being a "secret Muslim" and all the other horseshit nonsense, GOP candidates wink and nod at that stuff if not outright promote it.

[W_HAMILTON]

8. I don't think that will work.

One of the reasons Republicans win elections is because their voters turn out and vote for the Republican regardless. They aren't dumb enough to be lured away by some third party candidacy like some of the voters on the left-end of the spectrum are. This is also one of the reasons the extreme right has been able to influence the Republican Party so heavily, whereas the extreme left are now watching as a recent former Republican (Bloomberg) may turn out to be the biggest challenger to a progressive nominee.

I suppose Democrats could disrupt some GOP primaries by funding crazy ass Republican candidates, which then probably could win their nomination and crash and burn in the general, but funding a third party candidacy designed to take away votes from the Republicans? Not gonna happen. Republicans will vote for Republicans, bank on it. Adding in extra candidates only hurts our chances, because Trump (in particular) cannot win a two-person race.

[ck4829]

15. I think I see the problem now

"They aren't dumb enough to be lured away by some third party candidacy like some of the voters on the left-end of the spectrum are"
- That is so helpful.



Do you wonder why people don't vote for people you like?

[W_HAMILTON]

16. Excuse me, are you advocating that we vote for third party candidates?

Because that is against this site's rules, if you weren't aware.

[TwilightZone]

18. It's hard to argue that it's a false assertion.

Anyone who voted for Stein or Johnson with the existential threat of Donald Trump and a couple decades of activist, right-wing judges looming had questionable judgment, at best.

"Dumb" might be a bit harsh, but the underlying assertion is valid. We on the left are much more likely to buy in to whatever shiny object is in the vicinity instead of rallying behind our nominee than the right is.

[NewJeffCT]

9. Joe Walsh could have been helped out by Democrats, but

the Trump run RNC rigged the primaries to make it hard for anybody to even challegen him from within the party. So, no point in throwing money away there.

run an Alex Jones type as an Independent saying that Trump has betrayed MAGA (list Mexico not paying for the wall or golfing or Jared/Ivanka in the WH (Ann Coulter didn't like that)) and needs to be challenged - get his name on the ballot in several swing states

[TwilightZone]

10. No one was going to legitimately challenge Trump in the primaries, even without RNC interference.

The guy's approval rating is 90%. Who was going to beat him?

[NewJeffCT]

12. No - not for the primaries

for the general election. Like McMullin in 2016, only for more states

[TwilightZone]

13. But, what's the strategy?

The MAGA fans already know the stuff you mentioned and they don't care. We need something that will sway some of the 90% who support him. To date, nothing has. Chaos won't work - he's the master. Pointing out the lies won't work - they don't care and he's normalized them on the right. Pointing out his hypocrisy won't work - that's been obvious his entire presidency and they don't care. Kids in cages didn't bother them in the least. Trying to bribe/threaten a foreign country for dirt on Biden just made them dig in more.

I think it's potentially a good idea. I just don't see anything anyone has mentioned in this thread being effective, because it's all been done already. I think a third-party gets never-Trumpers and not much else.

[NewJeffCT]

14. It's not about winning over all of the Trump voters

it's getting 1 or 2 votes out of every 100. 2 out of 100 in 2016 would have given Clinton WI, MI, PA and NC and FL

That's the same as Trump touting low black unemployment all the time - it's not going to win over anything close to 25-30% of the African American vote, but if he can get 1-2% more than last time, it's a huge win for him.

[TwilightZone]

17. I'm not sure there's 2% (net) to get.

Again, what specifically are you going to sell that 2% of Trumpsters are going to buy?

Keep in mind that we can't draw any of the large number of Independents and the few never-Trumpers who might vote for our nominee away. It has to be 2% net loss for Trump and 0% net loss for us, so it can't be anyone to the left of Trump like McMullin or Johnson. Or Romney.

It sounds simple, but 2% net loss for Trump is a big deal. Gary Johnson got more than that, but it's pretty clear that a not-insignificant chunk was from our side. He inexplicably got a lot of attention on DU and elsewhere from "both-siders", left-libertarians, and unhappy liberals and progressives even though he's simply a conservative masquerading as a (right)libertarian. Bill Weld, his running mate, was so sure that they were going to help Trump win that he basically told people to vote for Clinton.

Want a better strategy? Find a way to discourage the Jill Steins of the left from running and/or disaffected lefties from voting for people like Stein and Johnson or from staying home. I think 2018 proved that focusing on issues and turnout is a better idea than trying to pry away cult members from their leader.

[Azathoth]

11. Kind of sad that we have turn to a disaffected Republican to teach us

how to play hardball.