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(11,863 posts)Carl was a prophet.
Our descent...
DENVERPOPS
(8,820 posts)And go get a copy of Animal Farm, a really easy and quick read compared to 1984. I took my copy from Jr. High off the shelf last year and re-read it. It would scare the living F*** out of everyone.....It's the Republican playbook for all we have seen, are seeing and will see in the near future........
WASF
Bob Loblaw
(1,900 posts)As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
-- H. L. Mencken
PatrickforO
(14,573 posts)democracy, suggesting if we got rid of things like the electoral college and implemented direct democracy, we would then be subject to the tyranny of the majority, and if that majority is stupid, then we'd get a guy like Trump.
Ironic, isn't it, that it was the electoral college, designed by guys like Mencken to prevent a stupid popular vote, instead gave us Trump when the 'stupid' popular vote would have given us Clinton...
Bob Loblaw
(1,900 posts)DENVERPOPS
(8,820 posts)JudyM
(29,237 posts)DENVERPOPS
(8,820 posts)and now everyone should also be equally worried about separation of Church and State......
WASF
Arthur_Frain
(1,849 posts)When everything started becoming cloud stored, and everything, I mean everything, was being digitized, and then that was the only format it was available in, I immediately thought to myself
but this is the part where the pigs start changing the words on the wall!.
Life imitates art.
FiveGoodMen
(20,018 posts)...and enough data to get it right.
It might help to be as smart as Sagan, but we all should have seen this coming.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,343 posts)Happy Hoosier
(7,308 posts)I see this locally. I live in deep red Indiana. I see what gets taught in my daughters' excellent school. They learn the right facts. They are taught the importance of critical thinking. She is being well-prepared for university and beyond. But I see other kids in the same classes.... a lots of them are wearing MAGA hats.
Wounded Bear
(58,653 posts)King_Klonopin
(1,306 posts)The Willfully Ignorant, indeed...
a.k.a. The Obtuse (Did you just call me obtuse?)
a.k.a. The Anti-Intellectual (Smart people are so dumb.)
a.k.a. The Celebrators of Ignorance
a.k.a. The "Contempt-Prior-To-Investigation" Investigators
a.k.a. The Trusters of The Gut
a.k.a. The "My ignorance is better than your knowledge" Self-Deceivers
Climate-change deniers are just the tip of the melting iceberg (Hey, look!
the planet ain't gettin' warmer 'cause I has a snowball in my hand to
prove it -- derp.)
Tax cuts will pay for themselves.
Tax cuts for the wealthy will trickle down (right down your leg).
Voter fraud is rampant.
Guns keep you safe.
Wind turbines cause cancer.
The economy is a-boomin' but we can't afford to provide health care to everyone.
The economy is a-boomin' but we can't afford to give govt employees a raise.
The economy is a-boomin' but we can't afford to raise the minimum wage.
The economy does better when Republicans are in charge.
Conservatives are more fiscally responsible than Dems.
We get nothing in return from NATO.
Trump has learned his lesson.
Trump was chosen by God.
Budget deficits don't matter (if Repubs caused them) ; they don't need balancing.
We need to cut Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and SNAP to balance the budget.
There's no need for voter rights protections.
Banks need LESS regulation.
If it don't fit on a bumper sticker, then it's too complicated and it don't need knowin'.
Corporations are people, too, my friend.
Ukraine interfered with elections -- not Russia.
We have the best healthcare in the world.
Libruls hate our troops and they hate 'murica, derpy derpy derp . . .
It requires a certain predisposition: you hafta wanna believe the lies and the
bullshit before they are even spoken. An objectively seeking-mind would find these
claims to be beyond ridiculous. Reality does not support this belief system. The support
is sustained from a willful suspension of reality/fact/truth/evidence combined with
reinforced group think and propaganda.
The stupid hurts us more than it hurts them
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,343 posts)Stats show that the higher the education, the more likely to vote Democratic.
Those other kids wearing MAGA hats are reflecting the parents. Perhaps they have not yet reached the age of rebellion or perhaps they just need some more education to realize that they've been lied to.
There is a reason why the GOP has attacked education for decades.
Happy Hoosier
(7,308 posts)That was my experience. I grew up in a conservative household and college transformed my world view.
I hope that happens for some of these kids. Indiana does suffer a brain drain as well. Hoosier kids that get a good education tend to want to move elsewhere. I don't blame them. Fortunately, there are little islands of blue, but as a whole, this state really illustrates the bizarre attitudes in some red states. I grew up in a blue state that values investment in the public good. Here, way to many see crumbling roads, cracking bridges, and schools that desperately need repairs as "normal." And they can;t understand why anyone would want to live in a "high tax" blue state.
Bob Loblaw
(1,900 posts)It's not easy being a liberal in Indiana is it? Outside of a girl my first real heartbreak was when Dan (Ferris Beuhler) Quayle defeated Birch Bayh. I couldn't fathom the logic then, and I can't fathom it now why folks would vote against their own interest.
Karadeniz
(22,513 posts)Think. " I wonder if we can't recycle that one to something like, "You can lead Trump to knowledge, but you can't make him think." ...or a MAGAt..
Hotler
(11,421 posts)It is now more fun to just piss them off.
BusyBeingBest
(8,052 posts)I mean, come on. That's a classic. One of my favorite movies of all time. (I also liked Beavis and Butthead )
blugbox
(951 posts)"NO WAY.... That's great!! We landed on the moon!!!!"
*Only Dumb and Dumber quote I could think of on short notice that also involved Carl Sagan in any way...
BusyBeingBest
(8,052 posts)I would tell Carl to lighten the eff up, but that's not possible now
soldierant
(6,857 posts)likes it for the same reasons as other people who like it.
For instance, MAGAts watch "A Few Good Men" and come away thinking Colonel Jessup was the hero. The lonely, persecuted hero.
I'm confident you saw something - maybe several somethings - in "Dumb and Dumber" which Carl either didn't see or didn't find important or compelling. (Or he did see, but also saw too many people who didn't see.)
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)bronxiteforever
(9,287 posts)Mister Ed
(5,931 posts)We are there.
They_Live
(3,232 posts)at me as well.
Fla Dem
(23,666 posts)CaptYossarian
(6,448 posts)deep social cuts (including education). Add the same fiscal and social irresponsibility at the state level and here we are.
Prior to that Sagan passage, there was the Statue of Liberty scene in Planet of the Apes (1968) and a climate change song by Jeff Lynne, "Save Me Now" (1992). If anyone can remember anything earlier, please share.
Our world has had ample time to reverse the effects of carbon on our fragile planet, but rich and powerful forces wouldn't--and still won't allow it.
It's our world too.
RVN VET71
(2,690 posts)I wonder whether his reaction to cable TV stations like Science and History, specializing in UFO's and Ancient Aliens, respectively would have been anger or just a sad, desperate sigh of resignation.
CaptYossarian
(6,448 posts)An electronic sideshow if there ever was one. Truly exploiting people who should be living with the same dignity as anyone else.
RVN VET71
(2,690 posts)It's part of the crumbling of the promise of the internet and cable TV. Both started out promising access to information, to education, to connections with old friends and family living in far away places. Instead we get schlock on the Leaning Channel, on Science, on History, and didn't "Tru TV" begin life as "Court TV" which promised public access to actual trials to show the workings of the justice system to any citizen who wanted to look and learn. And, of course, the information highway, the internet, is lined with hookers and pornography.
The 21st century was supposed to be the age of information and knowledge, of intellectual and cultural enlightenment. Instead, its become the age of access to the trivial and the lurid, of adolescent excess and self-indulgence.
(Don't misunderstand. I think mediocre TV programming has its place -- Fred Allen called it "chewing gum for the eyes"! And would not want the grubby little fingers of phony religious censors to start banning porn from the internet. I just wish there was more solid information and learning and less -- but not no -- Stormy Daniels.)
CaptYossarian
(6,448 posts)"Television is a medium, because it's neither rare nor well done."
And I believe Bruce Springsteen has a song called "500 Channels and Nothing On".
You're right about the potential of it. On the bright side, if we didn't have a pig in the WH, I never would have heard of Stormy (or that lawyer either).
dalton99a
(81,485 posts)of my favorite books by one of my favorite people.
klook
(12,154 posts)Sagan was very concerned (rightly so) about the decline in scientific understanding as pseudoscience like astrology, etc. gained traction. This quote is amazingly prescient.
Dukkha
(7,341 posts)Once of the absolute must haves for anyone's collection. Along with 1984, Fahrenheit 451, and Brave New World.
CrispyQ
(36,463 posts)I miss him.
"Demon Haunted World" should be required reading. "Contact" will always be one of my favorite sci-fi stories. It was a little difficult to read because of his extensive vocabularyI was always looking words upbut man, what a great ending!
The movie sucked, big time.
volstork
(5,400 posts)Prescient!
Hekate
(90,680 posts)Mickju
(1,803 posts)muriel_volestrangler
(101,314 posts)which has turned out to be part of it, but the bigger problem is the deliberate spreading of misinformation and distrust in science, experts or fact-based journalism, which has come from tobacco and fossil fuel companies, Putin, and the Republicans. With Zuckerberg a willing lackey.
Karadeniz
(22,513 posts)MythosMaster
(445 posts)Maybe I should read it again.
yonder
(9,664 posts)We could use many more like him today.
BigmanPigman
(51,590 posts)I wonder what Carl would add or change to his original statement in the present 2020 atmosphere.
mopinko
(70,102 posts)so right on, always.
Blue Owl
(50,360 posts)n/t
erronis
(15,241 posts)I have a foreboding of an America in my childrens or grandchildrens time when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and whats true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness. The dumbing down of America is most evident in the slow decay of substantive content in the enormously influential media, the 30-second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), the lowest common denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/carl-sagans-foreboding-of-an-america/
Ilsa
(61,695 posts)Household really don't give a crap about learning anything about the world around them.
I have movies that dramatically retell historical events, but all they care about is trashy reality tv. One that I really hate is about people meeting each other at the altar for the first time to get married. They care nothing for news shows, even updates on the coronavirus. Totally incurious.
StarzGuy
(254 posts)However, this has been in progress for my entire adult life. The continued dumbing down of the country will not serve us well over the near term. I fear some major upheaval coming down the pike and it can't be stopped. Trumpism and Trumpers are only the symbols of this malady.
I can only hope things will change but I'm not optimistic for the remainder of my lifetime.
misanthrope
(7,411 posts)he lived in rarified company that kept him from seeing it in the same many of us have. Essentially, humans are no different now than we've been for thousands of years.
PatrickforO
(14,573 posts)We really have been dumbed down. Purposely.
coti
(4,612 posts)What an incredible man.
He really called it with the "...celebration of ignorance" line.
dchill
(38,489 posts)Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(107,972 posts)Highly recommend it.