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Newest Reality

(12,712 posts)
Thu Feb 13, 2020, 04:47 PM Feb 2020

Believing without evidence is always morally wrong

This is an provocative, but timely view of the value and meanings of belief and its impact on our new, collective way of interacting. The title is rather strong, but it catches the attention.

The focus is rather clear, so it not intended to be another battering ram or club concerning the diversity of beliefs that people can have. Now, more than ever, especially in the social media sphere, having an ethic along these lines can be more important and vital due to the circumstances we now find ourselves in. In other words, we can start by acting like it matters more than we realize.

This view is obviously going to be controversial, but that's the point. If it is at all provocative and relevant, then the result of any discussions about it are pertinent. It is not so much the details as the overall ethical considerations it presents that can apply across the board in a social sense. Good debates, with pros and cons, are where we can find consensus if we are amenable to that in the first place.

You have probably never heard of William Kingdon Clifford. He is not in the pantheon of great philosophers – perhaps because his life was cut short at the age of 33 – but I cannot think of anyone whose ideas are more relevant for our interconnected, AI-driven, digital age. This might seem strange given that we are talking about a Victorian Briton whose most famous philosophical work is an essay nearly 150 years ago. However, reality has caught up with Clifford. His once seemingly exaggerated claim that ‘it is wrong always, everywhere, and for anyone, to believe anything upon insufficient evidence’ is no longer hyperbole but a technical reality.

In ‘The Ethics of Belief’ (1877), Clifford gives three arguments as to why we have a moral obligation to believe responsibly, that is, to believe only what we have sufficient evidence for, and what we have diligently investigated. His first argument starts with the simple observation that our beliefs influence our actions. Everyone would agree that our behaviour is shaped by what we take to be true about the world – which is to say, by what we believe. If I believe that it is raining outside, I’ll bring an umbrella. If I believe taxis don’t take credit cards, I make sure I have some cash before jumping into one. And if I believe that stealing is wrong, then I will pay for my goods before leaving the store.

What we believe is then of tremendous practical importance. False beliefs about physical or social facts lead us into poor habits of action that in the most extreme cases could threaten our survival. If the singer R Kelly genuinely believed the words of his song ‘I Believe I Can Fly’ (1996), I can guarantee you he would not be around by now.

But it is not only our own self-preservation that is at stake here. As social animals, our agency impacts on those around us, and improper believing puts our fellow humans at risk. As Clifford warns: ‘We all suffer severely enough from the maintenance and support of false beliefs and the fatally wrong actions which they lead to …’ In short, sloppy practices of belief-formation are ethically wrong because – as social beings – when we believe something, the stakes are very high.


https://aeon.co/ideas/believing-without-evidence-is-always-morally-wrong
14 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Believing without evidence is always morally wrong (Original Post) Newest Reality Feb 2020 OP
Ergo, all religion is morally wrong. stopbush Feb 2020 #1
How so? Newest Reality Feb 2020 #3
I think the issue is in "Believing without evidence." VOX Feb 2020 #6
How does that relate to this topic, though? Newest Reality Feb 2020 #7
Dogma is and always has been the problem. k2qb3 Feb 2020 #9
Good point. Newest Reality Feb 2020 #10
1) I didn't bring up religion; 2) I'm not arguing about anything. VOX Feb 2020 #11
Thanks. Newest Reality Feb 2020 #12
Thank you. VOX Feb 2020 #13
Oh! Newest Reality Feb 2020 #14
Oh, the irony... NeoGreen Feb 2020 #2
Uribe is an economist at Goldman Sachs. I wonder if many of us would think that some ... Jim__ Feb 2020 #4
It does come down to that. Newest Reality Feb 2020 #5
If evidence about a thing is available and known what is the value of belief in the thing? LastDemocratInSC Feb 2020 #8

Newest Reality

(12,712 posts)
3. How so?
Thu Feb 13, 2020, 05:04 PM
Feb 2020

The article makes many presuppositions and is hardly a rational argument against religion, nor did it make that case explicitly.

Would it then follow that all religious people are immoral? I am painting religion with a very broad bush that may not fit into a narrow definition. When you use the term "morally" there what is your foundation for that and how do you distinguish it from ethics and rational approaches to social norms and rules for behavior? Does morality have a basis in fundamental religious principles?

It seems a far stretch to come to that conclusion without qualifying it. However, you are not required to do that. I am just curious.

Following your logic:

Issac Newton was religious
All religion is morally wrong.
Therefore, Issac Newton was immoral.

Is that correct?

VOX

(22,976 posts)
6. I think the issue is in "Believing without evidence."
Thu Feb 13, 2020, 05:44 PM
Feb 2020

There is no concrete evidence that a higher power or consciousness is “in charge” of the universe, which is in (eternal) conflict with “faith”— or belief that exists in the absence of fact.

Newest Reality

(12,712 posts)
7. How does that relate to this topic, though?
Thu Feb 13, 2020, 06:14 PM
Feb 2020

I did intend to post it as such. You seem to have brought an argument in that may be instigated by a view.

If you read the article, it is far more general and actually more related to, oh, maybe something like the barrage of information that the Trump campaign and the alleged billion dollars behind it, as well as the fine tuning of old and newer styles of propaganda in order to sway populations, influence outcomes and manufacture consent. Can you agree that that is the case?

The argument you are presenting is another matter, and I don't accept the implication that I am promoting the dichotomy you are inferring and then expressing a bias about.

I have mentioned category errors, which should suffice as far as my views may go. That really isn't a problem because I am not at all religious or theistic at all, quite the opposite. I consider the entire range of that and metaphysics as a product of the mind itself, just as I do highly theoretical physics that have zero empirical evidence to support them like the "multiverse". Pop-science abounds online and it can be just as much a matter of speculation and belief as anything else and I am not sure how it helps or promotes science as a discipline and method when empirical method and data, scientific philosophy and metaphysics get jumbled. Science is a method that I respect and honor.

Now, if you don't want to "believe" that, that's not my problem. Thanks anyway.

I would also like to express my deep respect to all of our DU members who have religious beliefs and faith, or that practice mind-oriented disciplines concerned with realization of the nature of mind, etc. This topic was not at all intended to disparage your views or challenge your deep beliefs. We all fit under the umbrella of democracy in my opinion in a way that reflects our mutual values.

 

k2qb3

(374 posts)
9. Dogma is and always has been the problem.
Thu Feb 13, 2020, 06:34 PM
Feb 2020

Religion isn't exactly the same thing but it's awfully close.

The real issue with theism is revelation. It demands we vest divine authority in claims made by human beings. Without a revelation to characterize belief, a theology cannot be established.

None of that has anything to do with the existence of God, but it's hopelessly entangled with revealed religions.

Dogma is a malignant cancer of the consciousness, it metastasizes via the rationalization of paradox and that rationalization replaces reason. Fundamentalism and Trumpism, all sorts of isms, follow that pattern.

Science and dogma are antithetical, that's why the magisteria never overlap no matter what perspective you're viewing it from.

Newest Reality

(12,712 posts)
10. Good point.
Thu Feb 13, 2020, 07:03 PM
Feb 2020

I agree and thank you for your thoughts on that. I enjoyed your insights there and understand where you are coming from.



VOX

(22,976 posts)
11. 1) I didn't bring up religion; 2) I'm not arguing about anything.
Thu Feb 13, 2020, 08:37 PM
Feb 2020

The post that broached religion was the first response you received. I didn’t bring up the subject.

My comment was about how religious people (I am not one) often describe their faith as living a life with a belief in the absence of tangible, physical fact.
As Merriam-Webster puts it: “firm belief in something for which there is no proof.” Thus, your subject line, “Believing without evidence is always morally wrong,” might trip up some folks who choose to live a life with what they call faith.

I’m not making ANY argument to challenge or defend here. I’m not advocating or taking any position on this at all, other than letting you know I haven’t “bought into” anything, and am merely sharing a devalued nickel’s worth of neutral observation. That’s all.

Peace.

Newest Reality

(12,712 posts)
14. Oh!
Thu Feb 13, 2020, 09:10 PM
Feb 2020

Thank you so much. Really, I am moved. That was kind.

I would also like to extend that to you as a reflection.



Jim__

(14,075 posts)
4. Uribe is an economist at Goldman Sachs. I wonder if many of us would think that some ...
Thu Feb 13, 2020, 05:11 PM
Feb 2020

... of his economic beliefs are based on insufficient evidence. Of course, Uribe would not really care about our opinion of his beliefs. Therein lies the rub. Who decides which beliefs are based on sufficient evidence?

Newest Reality

(12,712 posts)
5. It does come down to that.
Thu Feb 13, 2020, 05:21 PM
Feb 2020

Who decides that and what criterion are being utilized to formulate a response?

Also, the context and category of the inquiry are essential to the inquiry. While the variables are a matter of contents, (what, why,where and when) the processes themselves are the context or the "how". The same applies in matters of quanta vs. qualia.

I think we have categories that exist for the very purpose of avoiding the tendency to conflate certain matters by way of category errors in order to support our contentions, when, for the sake of clarity staring from a premise like that can be rather effectual.

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