General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThis is one of the best gun control arguments I've ever heard. Lengthy thread.
This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Omaha Steve (a host of the General Discussion forum).
Last edited Sat Feb 15, 2020, 12:03 PM - Edit history (1)
Link to tweet
?s=20
Zoonart
(14,620 posts)I am going to share it around liberally.
MuseRider
(35,176 posts)thank you.
wendyb-NC
(4,725 posts)It is very informative, and supports the argument for common sense gun laws, in this country. These would be a lot less restrictive, than the ones required by the Army, for their enlisted women and men. Please read, it is a rare argument for the responsibilities, that necessarily follow from the 2nd amendment right.
Hermit-The-Prog
(36,631 posts)Arkansas Granny
(32,265 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Thank you for posting, Arkansas Granny!
marble falls
(72,531 posts)Link to tweet
Conversation
John Kaminar
@jidk1187
THREAD. Folks, bear with me for a minute, please. I want to address a point that is often made by gun rights advocates, but which is a fallacy that civilians may not realize. In the interest of full disclosure, I served 30 years in the Army and Army Reserve, Ive taught
Image
8:32 AM · Feb 14, 2020·Twitter for iPhone
1.4K
Retweets
2.2K
Likes
John Kaminar
@jidk1187
·
Feb 14
Replying to
@jidk1187
marksmanship in the Army and supervised firing ranges and arms storage/security, and am a gun collector who supports the 2nd Amendment in that I believe that a law abiding citizen has the right to be armed if he or she so chooses, but I also believe that this right like all of
Image
John Kaminar
@jidk1187
·
Feb 14
our rights carries with it significant responsibilities. So, my point: we often hear people say that since we trust an 18-year old soldier to carry an M-16 (the military version of the AR-15), then we should be comfortable allowing 18 year old private citizens to carry one.
Image
John Kaminar
@jidk1187
·
Feb 14
But heres what those folks are NOT telling you: 1) no brand new enlistee in the Army (or any branch of the military) is given a firearm on Day 1 of his/her service. They receive quite a bit of training in firearm safety before they ever are allowed to handle the weapon even
John Kaminar
@jidk1187
·
Feb 14
if they grew up around guns and know all about them. 2) When they do get to handle their M-16s for the first time, there are no bullets ANYWHERE around. After being trained in firearm safety, they are then trained on the weapon itself without ever firing a live round. They
John Kaminar
@jidk1187
·
Feb 14
learn how to handle it, carry it safely, disassemble it, clean it, check it for functionality, and reassemble it. 3) When they finally do get to fire the weapon, they are closely, CLOSELY supervised by their sergeants and officers. In fact, when the trainees go to the trainees
John Kaminar
@jidk1187
·
Feb 14
go to the firing range for the first time, there are almost as many sergeants on the range as there are trainees. And some of the sergeants are assigned the specific responsibility for ensuring everything is done according to Army safety regulations. 4) Once the recruits
John Kaminar
@jidk1187
·
Feb 14
finish their training and join their units, they NEVER get to carry their firearms around. Those weapons are kept in the unit arms room under double lock and key each weapon is locked into its storage rack and the arms room itself is locked. And the arms room is protected by
John Kaminar
@jidk1187
·
Feb 14
an alarm system. 5) No soldier of ANY rank can simply go to the unit armorer (the sergeant responsible for the arms room) and say, Gee, Sergeant, may I please sign out my M-16? I feel like exercising my 2nd Amendment right today by carrying my rifle around just because I can.
John Kaminar
@jidk1187
·
Feb 14
No, the troops only sign out their weapons for authorized purposes, such as marksmanship training or field exercises, and when they do that, they are ALWAYS under the supervision of a sergeant usually under the supervision of several sergeants and a few officers, to boot. So,
John Kaminar
@jidk1187
·
Feb 14
friends, thats the rest of that story. Those 18 year old soldiers whom we trust to carry an assault rifle are doing to under conditions so tightly regulated as to make any gun rights activist blanche in anger. The military recognizes that those weapons are so deadly that they
John Kaminar
@jidk1187
·
Feb 14
never allow soldiers to just carry them around on the installation. Those are the facts of the matter. So the next time one of your gun rights advocating friends tries to feed you that particular line, you can refute them with the facts.
If a soldier can't just carry firearms around military bases just because they feel like it, why should Joe Public?
Hermit-The-Prog
(36,631 posts)Second AmendmentA well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
[Bold added, because that part is conveniently ignored by RWNJ and Scalia]
marble falls
(72,531 posts)classes of people from being banned from enlisting into the armed services.
hack89
(39,181 posts)I have no doubt you can back that up with some historical citations. Can you?
marble falls
(72,531 posts)hack89
(39,181 posts)Right now it is nothing more than unsubstantiated opinion.
hack89
(39,181 posts)Under Obama there was a plank in the party platform stating the 2A protects an individual right to bear arms.
Hermit-The-Prog
(36,631 posts)It also mentions regulation.
aikoaiko
(34,214 posts)hack89
(39,181 posts)AWB, magazine limits, registration, licenses and training requirements are all perfectly constitutional.
It is not the 2A stopping strict gun control.
Wounded Bear
(64,628 posts)I don't recall there ever being "more" supervisors at the firing range than recruits, but there were certainly plenty.
Ammunition was very tightly controlled, and weapons were kept secured at all times when not in active excercises.
dware
(18,181 posts)although, in a combat zone, the rules were much, much different, we had our weapons with us at all times, even on base.
Wounded Bear
(64,628 posts)I was never in combat, but sounds about right, especially for grunts. I was air wing, so supposedly we all had weapons assigned (every Marine is a rifleman
Aristus
(72,515 posts)into the program.
We had another two weeks of classes regarding the purpose of the rifle, its construction, and how to field strip the firearm. Movies often depict trainees getting to the point where they can disassemble then reassemble the rifle blind-folded. Although we never actually did that, any trainee will tell you that they became confident enough in their knowledge and skill with the weapon to be able to do that.
We had another week of range safety protocol prior to beginning live-fire exercises. When not actually firing at targets, one's rifle was always unloaded and always pointed downrange. The only thing more strictly regulated than the issuance of one's rifle was ammunition. Every rounded was carefully counted out, every brass cartridge was picked up and returned after target practice, and every trainee was searched carefully before leaving the range for either live rounds or spent brass cartridges.
Although there are certainly some ex-military types in the 'all-guns-all-the-time' crowd, I suspect many, if not most of the former military service types who support gun control in civilian life were either drill sergeants or range control personnel. They know better than anyone else the risks and dangers of handing weapons and live ammo to impulsive young kids with something to prove and macho reps to protect.
VOX
(22,976 posts)Claiming that the OP doesnt understand the Constitution, etc., etc.
No surprise there. God, they are a tiresome lot.
Wounded Bear
(64,628 posts)never took an oath to actually "protect and defend it from all enemies, foreign and domestic."
aikoaiko
(34,214 posts)And not the people who get to keep and bear arms.
Omaha Steve
(109,953 posts)Please repost in gun control: https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1172
Gun posts are restricted in this forum.
Statement of Purpose
Discuss politics, issues, and current events. Posts about Israel/Palestine, religion, guns, showbiz, or sports are restricted in this forum.
Kick in to the DU tip jar?
This week we're running a special pop-up mini fund drive. From Monday through Friday we're going ad-free for all registered members, and we're asking you to kick in to the DU tip jar to support the site and keep us financially healthy.
As a bonus, making a contribution will allow you to leave kudos for another DU member, and at the end of the week we'll recognize the DUers who you think make this community great.