if trump pardons roger stone....

[rdking647]

james madison had something to say about it....

“There is one security in this case to which gentlemen may not have adverted: if the President be connected, in any suspicious manner, with any person, and there be grounds to believe he will shelter him, the House of Representatives can impeach him; they can remove him if found guilty.”

[apcalc]

1. Am I reading this correctly? The House can both

Impeach and remove?

[Caliman73]

2. You read it correctly, but Madison is wrong if that is the whole quote.

I suspect the quote was truncated. I doubt Madison, one of the authors of the Constitution, would make that mistake. The House only has the power to Impeach. The Senate must convict and remove.


Madison was giving his opinion as to what should happen, not what actually happens. I would look up the quote to see if it is complete.

[mwooldri]

3. House can't impeach and remove.

OP is quoting the Madison Papers - https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Madison/01-11-02-0097

Simply put James Madison was saying that if a President was using their pardon powers to protect themselves then Congress can use the power of impeachment to remove said President who is abusing said pardon powers.

[Caliman73]

4. It is a reply to George Mason's objection to Presidential Pardon power.

Here: https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Madison/01-11-02-0097

It is interesting to see some of Madison's intent and what he felt was both improper to put pardon in the hands of the House or Senate, but also what he thought was the remedy for the President misusing the power.

It would be nice if it could actually work the way that Madison envisions it but with such a lapdog Senate, it would never happen.