Libertarians piss me off

[davidpdx]

I have one as a "friend" on Facebook and don't know her very well. She is the friend of a long time friend who I added a few years ago. Today here is exactly what I posted on my Facebook account:

"Unemployment drops to 8.1% on the monthly jobs report out Friday"

Her response:

"Those aren't the REAL numbers. That's not counting the people who's unemployment benefits have run out and those who are under employed. Most people don't jump for joy when after getting laid off from a job with a $60,000 a year salary to now work 25 hours a week at $8.50 an hour. Here in the Midwest that's RAMPANT. Factories closing down, customer service jobs outsourced to India..."

Sure people are still hurting and jobs are outsourced to India and China. No doubt about that. But this is the same person who lives in a fairyland accusing all people who use welfare of abusing it.

My very long rant response:

"The numbers are accurate. I was disappointed that the number of jobs created wasn't higher. It was expected that over new jobs were created. It is still possible those numbers will be revised (as happens in any year) Yes, there have been people who dropped out of the job market, but many of those are now looking again. Actually there are quite a few studies done that show when jobs are added the numbers start to go up, which explains why the last few months the UE rate went back up because people were actually looking. After the mess we were left by Bush we've only begun to crawl out of the hole. It was not a basic run of the ordinary recession, it was the great recession, the worst since the Great Depression. Ordinarily after a recession in a recovery jobs are added fairly quickly. So why were jobs not created? Companies sitting on billions of dollars (like Apple) unwilling to invest more. You want to blame someone for shipping jobs overseas, talk to the companies off-shoring or making products in China (again see Apple). Globalization isn't going to come to a halt, the US has to either start investing in new technology to create jobs (clean energy, longer life batteries for electronic equipment, etc.) here as well as training people for those jobs (how about some more engineers since China and India are outpacing us in that field). The people that think business will step up and do all this are being proven wrong. The truth is they are not. The government creates the infrastructure we use everyday, makes loans available to people so they can afford college and is part of the backbone of our economy. The Grover Norquist reducing government to the size of a bathtub and drown it will only make the rich richer. In terms of the mid-west (the actual mid-west not counting Illinois as it is technically considered a northeastern state) look at who the most of governors in those states are. Iowa, Nebraska, etc are Republicans who are cutting budgets and eliminating jobs. On top of that you have capital vulture groups like Bain who have closed factories and sold off the equipment. Even the Libertarians, who I consider Republicans (or "r&quot because they support most of the same conservative philosophies on economics and many are going to vote for the Republican ticket, as much to blame for Bush's crap. People need to wake up and realize the world isn't all that simple. So much for guns and butter."

We'll see how she responds to that.

[tama]

1. From wiki:

U1:[42] Percentage of labor force unemployed 15 weeks or longer.
U2: Percentage of labor force who lost jobs or completed temporary work.
U3: Official unemployment rate per the ILO definition occurs when people are without jobs and they have actively looked for work within the past four weeks.[1]
U4: U3 + "discouraged workers", or those who have stopped looking for work because current economic conditions make them believe that no work is available for them.

U5: U4 + other "marginally attached workers", or "loosely attached workers", or those who "would like" and are able to work, but have not looked for work recently.
U6: U5 + Part-time workers who want to work full-time, but cannot due to economic reasons (underemployment).

Note: "Marginally attached workers" are added to the total labour force for unemployment rate calculation for U4, U5, and U6. The BLS revised the CPS in 1994 and among the changes the measure representing the official unemployment rate was renamed U3 instead of U5.[43]

Statistics for the U.S. economy as a whole hide variations among groups. For example, in January 2008 U.S. unemployment rates were 4.4% for adult men, 4.2% for adult women, 4.4% for Caucasians, 6.3% for Hispanics or Latinos (all races), 9.2% for African Americans, 3.2% for Asian Americans, and 18.0% for teenagers.[37] Also, the U.S. unemployment rate would be at least 2% higher if prisoners and jail inmates were counted.[44][45]

[Bonobo]

2. You are both right. nt

[rfranklin]

3. Libertarian's are actually Republicans who are ashamed to admit it...

It's a simple way to shield yourself from taking responsibility for the atrocities that Republicans commit in furthering their philosophy.

[davidpdx]

5. Exactly

[jsr]

8. Excellent description

[Wounded Bear]

4. I call Libertarians Republicans on steroids.

[davidpdx]

6. That is a good description

They seem to be liberal on a few social issues, but pretty much closet conservatives.

[former-republican]

7. I think you're wrong

I know two of them well.
Or did know two, now one changed his mind.

When his mother was sick and eventually had to go on Medicaid to pay hospital bills and doctors .
I know it's wrong what I said to him but I told him..."why are you making me and other people save your mothers life"

He changed his mind on the libertarian mind set.

[Ikonoklast]

10. What you said was the painful truth that he needed to hear.

Libertarians hate the government right up to the day that they need it to help save them, then they spout, "But, it's MY money!"

Selfish immatutre children with no sense of community.

[former-republican]

11. Selfish immature is a good description

It only takes one issue in their personal lives to change their minds .
I don't wish harm on anyone but reality checks sometimes are needed.

Just imagine a country that valued community more than profit or selfishness.
It might not be in my lifetime but I have faith our country will one day achieve this.

[Ikonoklast]

15. As long as there is one hungry child in this nation of vast wealth, we have failed as a nation.

As long as there is one homeless person, one disabled vet with no job, one citizen not allowed to vote, one person deprived their full share of civil rights, one sick person allowed to die from lack of health care, one religious bigot using the force of government to impose his beliefs on others, we have failed as a nation.

As a society, as a nation, we sink or swim together, like it or not; one day that person you currently hate might be the one extending his hand to help save you.

[davidpdx]

12. Maybe that's one extreme circumstance

Where a family member became so sick they were able to see how a government program helped. I don't know the person, but I severely doubt that he would have changed his mind had that not happened.

It's nice that he sees it differently, but I wouldn't say that it's a trend in anyway.

[Wounded Bear]

17. Another thing I have noticed about self-proclaimed Libertarians....

Is they seem to be first in line to exclaim that "There ought to be a law!" when something bad happens.

I just shake my head and think (usually I don't say, though I probably should) "Maybe that law should have already been in place." It's not like we couldn't see that coming, whatever it was.

[jsr]

9. They always side with Republicans in the voting booth like little lapdogs

I wouldn't trust a damn one of them.

[davidpdx]

13. Bingo

[badtoworse]

14. 8.1% sounds like a big improvement, but in reality, the report was a disaster

True we added 96,000 jobs, but that was a lot less than analysts were expecting. The improvement in the unemployment rate was due to 368,000 people leaving the workforce, not improvement in the jobs area. Sorry to shit in your punchbowl, but the bottom line is that we lost ground in August

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-07/payrolls-in-u-s-rose-96-000-in-august-jobless-rate-falls.html

Do some research about how the investment community sees the report and I think you'll get a very different perspective. From what I've seen, the consensus is that it was very bad and almost guarantees more stimulus by the Fed.

[Ikonoklast]

16. You're so cute.

Try harder.

Must hurt watching it all slip away.

[Bluerthanblue]

18. what makes the Aug. rates any more or less different

as to how those who give up looking for work, are 'under-employed' or whose unemployment benefits have run out effects AUGUST numbers more than ANY other month?

I don't understand why the media is trying to paint this a SO dissapointing, when in reality the number went down, NOT up, which it could have done...??? If the number had risen, or even stayed the same, I can understand all the gloomsaying, but it didn't.

Can someone explain this to me?

[andym]

19. It does count people whose unemployment has run out!

It's based on a survey/poll of 60000 Americans by the Bureau of Labor Statisics.

http://www.bls.gov/cps/uiclaims.htm

"Some people think that to get these figures on unemployment the Government uses the number of persons filing claims for unemployment insurance (UI) benefits under State or Federal Government programs. But some people are still jobless when their benefits run out, and many more are not eligible at all or delay or never apply for benefits. So, quite clearly, UI information cannot be used as a source for complete information on the number of unemployed.

The number of unemployed persons in the United States and the national unemployment rate are produced from data collected in the Current Population Survey (CPS), a monthly survey of over 60,000 households. A person's unemployment status is established by responses to a series of questions on whether they have a job or are on layoff, whether they want a job and are available to work, and what they have done to look for work in the preceding 4 weeks. The unemployment rate is the number of unemployed persons as a percent of the labor force (employed and unemployed persons). See "Who is counted as unemployed?" for more information.

Statistics on persons receiving unemployment insurance benefits (sometimes called insured unemployment) in the United States are collected as a byproduct of unemployment insurance programs. Workers who lose their jobs and are covered by these programs typically file claims which serve as notice that they are beginning a period of unemployment. Claimants who qualify for benefits are counted in the insured unemployment figures. More information about the Unemployment Insurance program is available from the Department of Labor's Employment and Training Administration, including weekly data on UI claims.

While not related to the national unemployment rate, UI claims data do serve as inputs into the calculation of state and local area unemployment estimates. See the Local Area Unemployment Statistics program for more information."