General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSome folks tell me the common flu is worse than this new virus
Personally, I have a fear of this new 'Coronavirus',
but I don't know what to think.
Either way, the flu or COVID-19 they're also calling it,
I think Im at risk as Im 73 and with multiple health issues.
Any thoughts?
Shermann
(7,355 posts)And other random or not-so-random factors affect it as well.
That's all I got!
Mariana
(14,849 posts)Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)keep your hands washed any time you handle anything someone else might have touched, stay home as much as possible, and prepare to hunker down for a few weeks.
Trump is in charge. How much do you trust him not to make any outbreak we have worse? I thought so. I had to ask though. So, prepare to be on your own to deal with protecting yourself. He'll tell us to pray it away or some other such nonsense. He is NOT going to protect Americans from this crap. He is going to make it worse. So, not only do we have to worry about the virus, but we have to worry how Trump is going to make it harder for us to protect ourselves after everyone realizes we are on our own. I already know we are on our own. I'm ordering extra TP. Everything else except milk and bread is already well stocked up. I have some powdered milk already and just need flour and a couple more cans of Pinto beans.
Hekate
(90,189 posts)handmade34
(22,755 posts)have no idea because there is not enough information yet... go to CDC.gov for information at this point
don't be afraid, just get good information, keep washing your hands (with soap) and get the vaccine if and when it becomes available
MontanaMama
(23,238 posts)with any reliable knowledge or expertise. We will have watch and wait.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)they don't know how many people REALLY got infected, it could be what they reported, it could be far, far more.
Wounded Bear
(58,440 posts)It is more transmissable, apparently, and may be a bit more lethal in some demographics.
If you're over 70, you should be a bit concerned, especially if you have a history of respiratory ailments.
But to be true, they don't really know yet.
Aristus
(66,093 posts)It probably won't provide any resistance at all to the novel coronavirus. But if you already immunocompromised by an influenza infection, the coronavirus can probably make things much worse. Basically, if you are exposed to the coronavirus when you're at the peak of health, you're much more likely to have a favorable outcome than if you're already sick with something else.
Swfladem
(88 posts)There are a lot of people out there sharing on social media that the flu is much worse and has killed more people than Covid-19. While they are correct that the flu has killed more, it has also killed more than the bubonic plague this year. That doesnt stop the fact that Covid-19 is 20 times more deadly and ten times more contagious than the flu. The flu has simply simply been making its rounds and has been a more prevalent virus. If it gets a strong footing in the US it can be a nightmare.
Shermann
(7,355 posts)But my understanding is it is not an airborne virus.
htuttle
(23,738 posts)Also transmitted via 'feces' (!), so public toilets that auto-flush a vapor into the air aren't great, either.
Backseat Driver
(4,339 posts)money, computer mouse, touchscreens, doorknobs, toilet flushers and faucets, light switches, gym handlebars, glassware - I'd imagine it can be readily airborne from the naso-oral cavities, perhaps tears and sweat too, so open waste cans where tissues would be deposited or in those dark, steamed-warmed bathrooms post-shower and personal towels - hygiene matters! We can best help the Task Force by singing the Alphabet Song while washing those hands with soap and water!
peggysue2
(10,811 posts)One estimate is as long as 9 days. However long the survival rate, the basic hygiene measure of washing your hands, particularly before and after you're out at public places, becomes ever more important. And try to not touch your face, anywhere near eyes, nose and mouth. That in itself is hard because we all do this automatically.
The spread rate of this virus is greater than the seasonal flu and we still don't have a firm mortality rate. But, the patients over 65 appear to be more at risk and anyone with underlying medical conditions, as in diabetes or kidney problems, etc. At one site, I read the mortality rate for those over 70 is 8+% and for those 80 and older almost 15%. However, the death rates in Iran and Italy right now are much higher. Either their confirmed case numbers are wrong or the virus is more deadly than China reported. Or it could have mutated over the last 3 months. Also, at least from the Chinese stats, men are more prone than women in contracting the illness. Analysts still aren't sure whether that's because of increased smoking in Chinese men.
There's a lot we don't know which only increases anxiety. And is why transparency from the medical community is so important. Judging on the latest news from Trumplandia, we're not going to get a full picture because the WH has already put a gag order in place for any updates. Everything has to be cleared first through the Administration.
We could be in for a rough time. A whistleblower just reported today that healthcare people working with the cruise ship patients were not provided with proper gear. The spread has already started. Then the original CDC testing kits were configured incorrectly.
It's a mess and we've only just started.
It is airborne. Respiratory viruses are all airborne. Droplets are the primary means of contagion.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)some fearsome thing like the 1918 Flu or no worse than seasonal flu. Chinese officials really made a mess of things and there seem to be some doubt whether they really know HOW many people actually contracted the virus, it could be what they report, or it could be millions, with most people recovering without hospitalization.
Newest Reality
(12,712 posts)"Some folks" is not a reliable source of information, especially these days with conspiracy theories spraying out of a hose attached to a septic tank.
I suspend judgement, check many sources and remain vigilant as things unfold. Otherwise, it is easy to get sidetracked, misinformed, panicked, played, manipulated, etc.
Shields up! Scanners on.
magicarpet
(13,939 posts)(begin snip)
The new coronavirus outbreak has made headlines in recent weeks, but there's another viral epidemic hitting countries around the world: flu season. But how do these viruses compare, and which one is really more worrisome?
So far, the new coronavirus, dubbed COVID-19, has led to more than 75,000 illnesses and 2,000 deaths, primarily in mainland China. But that's nothing compared with the flu, also called influenza. In the U.S. alone, the flu has already caused an estimated 26 million illnesses, 250,000 hospitalizations and 14,000 deaths this season, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).
(end snip)
Much more at link,
https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.html
LonePirate
(13,386 posts)SDANation
(419 posts)Two different viruses. One we have very limited data coming from China, in one province. So you think that ratio of deaths to infected will hold as it spreads to a larger populous? Not likely.
LonePirate
(13,386 posts)We dont know if China is under reporting deaths or illnesses. But using your numbers, you cannot reach the conclusion you did.
SDANation
(419 posts)Millions are gonna die based on the ratio?
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)included in that number are a number of elderly people, some with compromised immune systems. If the China rate is taken on faith, 1 person that made it to a US hospital should be dead, that hasn't happened, in fact the first person, an over 70 male, went home after two weeks in the hospital in Washington State.
I will panic once we see a 2% fatality rate in the US, until that time, the other poster is making a valid point, hospitalization to hospitalization, the flu is killing more people (higher death rate).
Demsrule86
(68,348 posts)Trump in office. You can't believe the Chinese either.
SDANation
(419 posts)The number of infected actually is above 100000, but those people were either asymptomatic or had a mild illlness.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/607000/?client=safari
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)The number could be in the millions.
What is not in dispute numerically is that if one looks at people that are ill enough to be hospitalized, the flu kills more people.
onenote
(42,374 posts)from the flu.
14,000 deaths out of 26 million cases = fatality rate of .0005
2000 deaths of out 75,000 cases = fatality rate of .0349
mnhtnbb
(31,319 posts)is much less than the current--very limited database--death rate for coronavirus.
The death rate for COVID-19 appears to be higher than that of the flu.
In the study published Feb. 18 in the China CDC Weekly, researchers found a death rate from COVID-19 to be around 2.3% in mainland China. That's much higher than the death rate linked to flu, which is typically around 0.1% in the U.S., according to The New York Times.
https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.html
SDANation
(419 posts)It has not reached a large enough population and infected a large portion to make that assertion
mnhtnbb
(31,319 posts)I hold a master's degree in public health. What are your credentials?
SDANation
(419 posts)Infectious disease docs on a daily basis. Shall we continue the pissing contest? Ill read that one. You read this one:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/607000/?client=safari
mnhtnbb
(31,319 posts)the findings, and the implications.
Your post does not reflect that.
The initial studies coming out of China appear to indicate that the coronavirus, or COVID-19, for which there is no vaccine, has a higher rate of transmission and a higher rate of mortality than common flu. Yes, the sample size is limited at this point.
Am I worried personally? No. I'm leaving on a trip to a Caribbean island next Monday. My son and his partner are joining me. I will do a lot of hand washing--which I normally do when traveling-- anyway.
The problem we have here in this country is a government that does not appreciate or respect science. It doesn't care about public health. The executive branch is headed by a pathological liar. At a time when Americans need reliable information from experienced and knowledgeable scientists, this regime is determined not to provide it.
SDANation
(419 posts)Even so, the death rate for COVID-19 varied by location and an individuals age, among other factors. For instance, in Hubei Province, the epicenter of the outbreak, the death rate reached 2.9%; in other provinces of China, that rate was just 0.4%. In addition, older adults have been hit the hardest. The death rate soars to 14.8% in those 80 and older; among those ages 70 to 79, the COVID-19 death rate in China seems to be about 8%; its 3.6% for those ages 60 to 69; 1.3% for 50 to 59; 0.4% for the age group 40 to 49; and just 0.2% for people ages 10 to 39. Nobody 9 and under has died of this coronavirus to date.
So it could be 0.4% to 2.9% based an estimated infected population of 80000+. Thats a pretty big range. As the virus continues to spread, we will get a more accurate representation of the death rate, with all living conditions, access to care, comorbities etc rolled into the data.
Squinch
(50,773 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)though some experts have questioned the COVID-19 rate due to the shitshow virus management of Chinese officials. The actual number of people that got exposed could be possibly in the millions, just most simply never got seriously ill.
If you look at the rate of deaths after hospitalization, you are right, the flu is deadlier by around 2x. The issue is the gross pollution of the COVID-19 data, so no one can really say, even the posters that are bashing you over numbers.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)That means that coronavirus has 20 times the fatality rate, based on current statistics.
dewsgirl
(14,961 posts)and destroy their economies over just the flu.
SDANation
(419 posts)In 2017-2018 flu season,
The overall burden of influenza for the 2017-2018 season was an estimated 45 million influenza illnesses, 21 million influenza-associated medical visits, 810,000 influenza-related hospitalizations, and 61,000 influenza-associated deaths.
Up to 650,000 people die of flu and flu related illness each year. https://www.who.int/news-room/detail/14-12-2017-up-to-650-000-people-die-of-respiratory-diseases-linked-to-seasonal-flu-each-year
When Covid 19 gets to that level, then come freaking out.
dewsgirl
(14,961 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)The poster is making a decent point. We REALLY don't know how many people in China contracted COVID-19, there was a news article last week that implied that some people may in fact had the flu. The true infection number could be in the millions. What is pretty clear, as the poster is pointing out, is of the people that got hospitalized for both viruses, the flu killed a higher percentage of those people.
dewsgirl
(14,961 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)I read an article that some people that have COVID-19 show no symptoms. The phenomena is not unusual, according to the article, it is just COVID-19 is such a new virus and little is known about it at this point.
But, as the other poster implied, of the people that get hospitalized, a higher percentage die from the flu (even with a well established vaccine regimen and a lot known about the strains of flu viruses).
Corgigal
(9,291 posts)if ya can.
Its really all about how contagious this really is, 2 or 6, how fatal ? Then when does the local hospitals collapse because humans like to breathe.
Its just a little extra money, and I rather be wrong then right.
mzmolly
(50,957 posts)their assertions?
Stay well.
Initech
(99,914 posts)Said that you're way more likely to die getting the flu than you are the Corona Virus. But he also said that the Corona Virus is a threat and one that needs to be taken seriously, but it is getting blown out of proportion and you need to be careful of all the disinformation out there.
Skittles
(152,964 posts)between China and the Trump administration, misinformation seems to be all we are getting
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Weve been through these things before, and they never seem to reach dire predictions. Hope trend continues.
snowybirdie
(5,191 posts)Need to take precautions. That's the cohort where it's fatal. Be careful and wash those hands.
Hekate
(90,189 posts)Last edited Fri Feb 28, 2020, 02:24 AM - Edit history (1)
...for news and knowledgable panelists. Try to get the past couple of days of their shows online if you can, then just make a point of pre-recording & watching.
Get an alcohol-based hand sanitizer for use outside the home, & use it often. Rub for 20 seconds (I just got out of the hospital & there were signs everywhere -- trust me: rub for 20 secs). Or sing Happy Birthday under your breath. Don't shake hands with people. Cough into your sleeve/elbow and not into your hand or the air. For years I've kept a roll of hand wipes in my car to clean up when leaving grocery stores and the like, and when I'm done with my hands I use the same wipe on my steering wheel. I may become more careful.
Yes, you & I are in a higher risk group due to age and pre-existing conditions. It is what it is.
No, this is not the flu, and no, a vaccine is not going to be available "soon." It will take 12-18 months, because Science.
The distinguishing features are not really like a cold, if I understand correctly. Dry cough. Fever. Not an upper respiratory infection, but one that sinks deep into the lower lungs.
The way scientists calculate rate of spread and risk of death is higher mathematics afaiac, but it is true and real.
Finally, the supply chain from China is being disrupted. Why should we care, since we're not going to need a new piece of electronics in the near future? Well, there's something I call "ingredients." Even if the prepared food you buy says made in the USA, chances are a whole bunch of the unpronounceable chemicals in it are sourced to China. Plus an incredible percentage of prescription medications and OTC supplements are made in China as well. Someone on Nicolle's panel suggested trying to get a 3-month supply of your prescriptions as opposed to a 30-day supply, but given all my recent experiences with Anthem Blue Cross, I'm just going to check my inventory for general up-to-dateness.
Best of luck to you, and to all of us.
beachbumbob
(9,263 posts)hajj and issuing NO visitor visas to Pilgrams?
If no bid deal then why this? I see it more in the way of what we the people are not being told vs what govts are communicating between themselves with.
LiberalArkie
(15,686 posts)about every year. This is to stop the flu from spreading.
beachbumbob
(9,263 posts)know when and where. "experts" say this is no more of an impact than the common yearly flu strain? Then why we see what is happening?
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)No sane politician (notice that I left out Trump) is going to take chances with a viral unknown.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)Hes not in the least worried.
He smiled and said, hey, were young. And indeed they are.
I say good for him. At his age, Id probably have done the same, though Ive never been a fan of cruises.
Shermann
(7,355 posts)PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,746 posts)Oh, that's right. One.
I'm getting ready to take a cruise to Hawaii this coming Sunday, and I'm very much looking forward to it. Five glorious days at sea, then five days around the Hawaiian Islands, then five more glorious days at sea. With any luck at all I won't see any news at all for two and a half weeks.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Have a blast!
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,746 posts)This is actually a milestone birthday present to myself, postponed by over a year until I saved up enough money for it.
Shermann
(7,355 posts)Sounds like a blast...don't let my BS be a wet blanket!
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)We should stock up on 2 weeks of food and medicine in case we must
"shelter in place" for awhile.
I pretty much have that already.
Baked Potato
(7,733 posts)OliverQ
(3,363 posts)The flu death rate is 0.1%. This virus is 2-3% overall, but as high as 8% in the elderly or those with respiratory issues.
dewsgirl
(14,961 posts)I have my doubts.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Of the people that get hospitalized with COVID-19, around 2.3% die. Of the people that get hospitalized with the flu, around 5% die. We really don't know HOW many people in China contracted COVID-19, there could be many millions, but most never needed hospitalization.
backtoblue
(11,323 posts)Coronavirus does not yet have a readily available or fast lab test.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)(to me) it happened first in China and there was a shitshow reaction from a fourth rate healthcare system. The big issue with it is the incubation rate, a person can have it and infect lots of other people before symptoms show up, the flu is like 1-2 days incubation.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)But the mortality rate of COVID-19 so far is higher by a lot, but the data may be polluted by the incompetence of Chinese officials at responding to sick people.
It will be interesting to see how many people die in a healthcare system like ours. There are now over 50 people showing symptoms, per the China data, 1 should have died, so far in the US, no one has died from the virus.
RhodeIslandOne
(5,042 posts)Until this one does, we are at it's mercy.
skip fox
(19,356 posts)the age of 73 was it's "sweet spot."
meadowlander
(4,358 posts)When was the last time a city of 11 million was placed in quarantine for "the common flu"? Governments don't take these kinds of actions lightly.
You don't need to panic, just prepare. Stock up on some supplies so you don't need to leave the house for a week. A few weeks would be better. Make sure all your prescriptions are filled if they are running low.
Take basic precautions like not going out to crowded places if you don't have to. Cancel travel plans if you can. Wash your hands, don't touch your face. Make arrangements if you're worried and live alone to have someone check in on you periodically. Build up your immune system - get lots of sleep, eat a balanced diet and do some light exercise.
The odds are good that you'll be fine and there's no point worrying over something that's a slim chance and that you don't have that much control over.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)MFM008
(19,776 posts)Weve all had a type of flu.
Nobody had COVID -19.
Avoid large crowds.
Wash hands!