Sen Wyden: "Like losing an hour of sleep? Neither do I." Co-sponsoring bill to ditch DST

[Dennis Donovan]

Link to tweet

Ron Wyden ✔@RonWyden

Like losing an hour of sleep? Neither do I. That’s why I’m a cosponsor of legislation to ditch the harmful and outdated tradition of daylight savings time. #LockTheClock

5:32 PM - Mar 8, 2020

[Skittles]

1. are people really that delicate that they cannot lose ONE HOUR of sleep

try working the night shift!

[Ms. Toad]

10. I do work the night shift - and this robs me of one hours

of what is likely only 5 hours to start with.

And - yes - that includes weekends. I typically work from 11 AM - 3-4 AM daily, 7 days a week. So yes, I need that hour of sleep.

And - unlike night shift individuals who lose the time from their work schedule (but not sleep), my work doesn't stop because I hit the end of my shift. I have to work until it is done. So it actually comes out of sleep time for me.

[shanti]

16. Don't care how it ends up

I just want the changes to stop. It's already been approved by voters here in CA, but the legislature is dragging their feet on implementing it.

[pat_k]

22. It's not about losing the hour, it's about lifestyle

I don't want to ditch daylight savings. I want to ditch standard time.

See post below for reason
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213059841#post21

[Skittles]

38. I guess I don't understand what is so bad about going to work in the dark

what difference does it make?

do people need the extra hour to mow their lawns or something?

as someone who is awakened EVERY WEEK by lawn action, I guess I have little sympathy

[pat_k]

43. Coming home in the dark is depressing -- permanent DST you are going to work in the dark.

Do you happen to live above the 45th parallel? If you do, and having it almost completely dark by 6pm doesn't bother you, I'm sure there are many others who feel the same. However, in our state, you would be in the minority.

Washington passed legislation for permanent daylight savings by a vast majority (house vote was 87 to 7). That reflects the majority support in the state. I personally don't know anyone who wouldn't welcome it.

An additional hour of sunlight in the evening, particularly in winter, would make an enormous difference here. Perhaps early darkness it is particularly depressing here because we have such wonderful, long days in the summer. The contrast is jarring.

------
On edit
P.S. Going to work in the dark is not a problem. That's why Washington passed permanent DST (but can't go forward until federal barriers are surmounted).

[Skittles]

46. OK I am bowing out

I work 12 hour night shifts and have NO problem doing ANYTHING in the dark, including taking a two mile walk at 02:00AM. The entire angst over ONE HOUR sounds utterly ridiculous to me.

[Thekaspervote]

62. In the shortest days of the year I went to work in the dark and came home in the dark

[pat_k]

66. Yep.

I moved to Seattle years ago from LA. I got here in October. By mid December, I was about suicidal -- going to work in the dark and the rain, coming home in the dark and the rain....

The "coming and going in the dark" is standard time. For example, in Seattle on Jan 3, standard time.

Morning
Dawn (astronomical twilight begins): 6:05
Civil twilight begins 7:21 am
Full daylight 7:57

Evening
Full daylight ends 4:30 pm
Civil twilight ends 5:05 pm
Dusk ends (astronomical twilight ends-- it's dark out): 6:22


If we go to permanent DST, it's darker in the morning (not full daylight until 8:57), but on the other side, you have civil twilight (light enough to do ordinary outdoor activities) until 6:05, and it is not fully dark until 7:22.

Not wonderful, but a bit better than coming and going in the dark.

[Laffy Kat]

78. Yes. I don't get off work until 7:00 p.m. and I am so much happier in the summer.

When it's still light outside when I get off. I can walk the doggos, go to the dog park, visit with people. In the winter I come home and go to bed and read or watch my laptop. Quality of life is so much better.

[docgee]

56. Everyone on this site must be old.

I have kids and would rather they didn't walk to school in the dark.

[Skittles]

60. I don't have kids, but most people don't mention that

I do remember walking to school in the dark but that was overseas

[docgee]

63. I think the poster above mentioning getting rid of standard time,

and just keeping DST would be ok with the kids walking to school.

[Skittles]

64. yeah

I'm specifically targeting people so delicate ONE hour just shakes up their life. It does not bode well for surviving a pandemic!

[docgee]

65. LOL, yeah, it seams they should have more important things to work on.

[pat_k]

72. If support for letting states do what they want is high, not much work involved.

I think allowing states to move to permanent DST (or permanent ST, as they wish) is very popular. The vote in the house here in WA for permanent DST was 87 - 7 for. We can't implement because of federal barriers. If it's easy to get support for lifting those barriers, I say go for it. Even in our current situation, all business doesn't need to grind to a halt.

[docgee]

82. No, that would cause too much confusion.

Imagine calling a company in another state or commuting and having to ask what time it is everywhere. The FAA would
have to implement it's own time. I'm for federal control over that.

[pat_k]

87. That would be solved by...

... passing a law that a contiguous south to north block of states need to be in accord and change together. Then you're just modifying the whole block by an hour during standard time (if the group of states adopt permanent DST). Not a problem to deal with.

Western states -- CA, OR, and WA -- have coordinated on permanent DST. Not sure if CA has passed legislation, but WA certainly has. And the folks to our north, Canada, support permanent DST by something like 83% (same as us, most agree that extra hour in the evening during winter's shortened days is what makes life a little better).

Currently, Hawaii and Arizona are the only states that don't observe DST and working with the "non-change" in AZ doesn't seem to have created problems (they somehow got a "dispensation" from Feds to stop observing at some point).

[pat_k]

70. Actually, above the 45th parallel...

In winter, changing to permanent DST moves beginning of civil twilight (light enough for ordinary outdoor activities) from about 7:20 am to 8:20.

If kids are walking to school before 8:20 they are doing it in "astronomical twilight" (dawn, sun coming up, which would start at 7:05 under permanent DST).

Look up times for any date/city. If the date is in standard time, add an hour to get what it would be under permanent DST.

https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/usa/seattle?month=1

[DENVERPOPS]

42. Amen to that

Right, just make Daylight savings the year round normal.......

[rickyhall]

37. It's just not necessary or needed.

[pat_k]

44. Do you live above the 45th parallel?

If you do, and you aren't depressed by having it be almost completely dark by 6 pm during the winter months, you are in the minority.

Washington passed legislation for permanent daylight savings by a vast majority (house vote was 87 to 7). That reflects the majority support in the state. I personally don't know anyone who wouldn't welcome it.

[Blecht]

54. I live above the 45th, and I hate DST

It gets hot here in the summer and doesn't start cooling off until 11 pm -- that's usually when I can open up my windows and turn off the air conditioner.

I'd much rather have it cooling off at 10 pm. It would save me on air-conditioning costs -- an hour a day would add up.

[rickyhall]

80. No. I wouldn't mind one way or the other, just not both.

[DENVERPOPS]

55. They have proven scientifically

that people that do night shift work or especially rotating shifts have shorter lives.........

Then think about Firefighters who are up and down all night long in Busy places like NY city, Boston, etc........

The tones go off and from that point to a few minutes later you try and wake up before you wade into situations that require the utmost amount of your wits to be 100%

[hlthe2b]

2. I like Wyden, but this is not important right now. Not at all.

[Mme. Defarge]

3. Maybe,

But it’s the most upbeat thing I’ve read all day. And, I have read all day.

[hlthe2b]

6. well, there is that...

[USALiberal]

12. Why can they not do more than one thing at a time? nt

[hlthe2b]

19. They can, but given the situation, the more eyes on what the admin is and is not doing, the better

this is a time to FOCUS, if ever there was one.

[nilram]

18. Yeah, but he's doing lots of other good stuff.

And right now is the right time to harp on it.

And if it gets to the Senate, we can say "McConnell won't let even this go forward!"

[yonder]

4. Bigger fish to fry right now, Senator

[Sherman A1]

7. Surprisingly

More than one issue can be addressed at the same time.

[yonder]

71. Yes but. As a DST fan, I would admit bias against the change

and as an admirer of the Senator (generally), looks like he has his mind made up using the lost hour of sleep as a reason. That yearly lost hour is small potatoes in my book.

[nilram]

20. He's frying lots of fish.

His staff gets him a sardine sandwich at lunch sometimes.

[DENVERPOPS]

47. Sherm

Call the waaambulance.

Us paperboys got up every morning at 3:00am, to fold newspapers, put them in our bike bags (125-135 of them) and deliver them to everyone by 5:00 am come rain, snow, or freezing temps. I did that from the time I was eleven to thirteen years old. We would just go home, have breakfast and study before going to school. We managed it by going to bed a couple of hours earlier in the evening. No big deal........

I gotta be honest with this whole argument.......If THIS were the biggest worry at this time in history, on a scale of one to a million, it would come in at about a 1.5, or maybe a 2..........LOL

Ps: A larger than normal amount of heart attacks happen (all year round) on Monday Mornings......how about we get rid of Monday mornings? I'm sure everyone would vote for that!!!!!!! LOL

[DENVERPOPS]

69. I guarantee you don't want

to get in a pissing contest on this one Sherm........You have absolutely no idea what I did for a living for over Fifty years..........

No point in arguing with you.......I'm old, worn out, and extremely arthritic............

I'll get back to you on November fourth...........

[gristy]

8. not clear if he wants to move to year-round DST or year-round ST

Year-round ST would make no sense at all, so I presume he means the former. But he doesn't say.

[pat_k]

27. I read "ditch daylight savings" as year-round ST. I want the other way -- year-round DST)

Reason in post below
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213059841#post21

[central scrutinizer]

9. Might be time

[DarthDem]

11. Yes, please

Please do this already. Enough is enough with the clock-switching. I would like to hear from farmers on their perspective, though.

[scarletwoman]

24. It never had anything to do with farmers in the first place, so don't worry about them.

Farming isn't done by clock time, it's done by sun time.

The whole "farmer" thing is bullshit - part of the PR campaign put out by the Chamber of Commerce, who wanted Daylight Saving Time to increase commerce.

[DarthDem]

83. That was my impression

But I did want to make sure that farmers wouldn't be hurt by the change, as I do recall concerns raised about that in the past. If those concerns were indeed phony as you mention, then there you go.

[pat_k]

29. Other way. Ditch standard for year-round DST

Reason I'd prefer that in post below
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213059841#post21

[dflprincess]

61. Agreed!

I love the extra light when I leave work. And it's nice in the summer for kids' little league & soccer games.

[DarthDem]

84. That's Fine

I'm more concerned with just eliminating the clock-switching. It's outdated and unneeded.

[DENVERPOPS]

48. The farmers

I know all operate on the time the sun comes up and the time the sun goes down......They could care less about what the clock says...

[DarthDem]

85. That's what I thought as well

But I also thought that the change between Daylight Time and Standard Time had been justified for years, even recently, by claiming that any change to the current system would hurt farmers.

[The Genealogist]

13. Fine with me

Go for it.

[Celerity]

14. We need permanent DST, not the opposite, the EU may finally do this soon, I hate it getting darker

an hour earlier in the winter.

[Kingofalldems]

15. I like DST.

[greatauntoftriplets]

26. So do I.

I used to go to work when it was still semi dark and then pitch dark when I drove home every winter. It was damned depressing to rarely see daylight.

[pat_k]

30. Yep. Better to ditch standard

Post below
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213059841#post21

[DENVERPOPS]

50. Think of all the people in

Northern Canada, Alaska, Antarctica, Russia

The Sun doesn't even come up at times in the winter, and barely sets in the summers......LOL

[Freddie]

31. Yes!

I love the long summer evenings. But if you make DST all year round, kids will be waiting for the bus in the pitch black in the winter. Keep things the way they are.

[scarletwoman]

17. Wonderful! Getting rid of the absurd mandatory hours changes would be fabulous!

Here's a great video about DST from C-Span 2/BookTV that they ran yesterday:

https://www.c-span.org/video/?186337-1/spring-forward-annual-madness-daylight-saving-time

It's from April 2005 - ironically, just a few months before the George W Bush administration extended DST from what it had been since 1987.

[pat_k]

21. Which way do you want it? Year-round 1) Standard Time or 2) Daylight Savings?

Personally, I would much prefer Option 2, daylight savings year round.

For example, in Seattle, under year-round daylight savings, on Jan 3 (middle of current standard time), dawn would begin at 7:05 and dusk would end at 7:22 (See below for details).

If we ditched daylight savings, subtract an hour. (See below for details or visit this site)

January 3

Note: Civil twilight = Enough light for ordinary outdoor occupations.

Option 1: If we ditch daylight savings, here's what we have in Seattle on January 3 (middle of standard time)

Morning
Dawn (astronomical twilight begins): 6:05
Civil twilight begins 7:21 am
Full daylight 7:57

Evening
Full daylight ends 4:30 pm
Civil twilight ends 5:05 pm
Dusk ends (astronomical twilight ends-- it's dark out): 6:22

Option 2: If we ditch standard time, and keep daylight savings year round, here is what we have:

Add an hour to the times above

I'd rather be getting up and getting ready for work in the dark (light enough for normal outdoor occupations at 8:21 am) and have a bit of light after I get home (light enough for normal outdoor occupations until 6:05).

[FoxNewsSucks]

25. same here

[Celerity]

75. this is what the EU will soon (hopefully) do. Here in Sweden standard time SUCKS in the late fall

and winter. It starts getting darkish around 2 PM or so here in Stockholm (and FAR earlier up north, to the point Norrbotten gets basically almost no daylight) once we switch to standard time, and DST means an extra hour of daylight in the afternoon, which also saves a shedload of energy, as far more people are awake and busy then, as opposed to 6 am, 7 am or so.

[DarthDem]

86. I'm probably with you

And doing away with standard time. Daylight Saving Time would thus become the new standard time. But I also believe that doing away with the switch either way would be useful. Congress has whittled down Standard Time to such a short period now - less than four months I believe - that it really hardly seems worth the switch anymore.

[roamer65]

23. NO.

I don’t want the sun coming up at 430am in June.

Permanent DST.

[pat_k]

32. You, me, and several people above prefer year-round DST

Seems to be the consensus.

Perhaps by "ditch DST" he means "make DST the Standard?"

Seattle example in post below:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213059841#post21

[3Hotdogs]

28. Maybe split it down the middle --- 1/2 hour off of each side and keep it that way.

[pat_k]

33. I think the legislation...

...just allows the individual states to decide. Currently, federal law precludes that.

Of course, I could be wrong. Perhaps the legislation is to make the change for all states.

If it's the former, a 30 minute change would be a problem if only some states adopted. Much easier to just add or subtract whole hours to get time in a different time zone.

Also, I hope by "ditch daylight savings" he means "make DST the standard."

Here in Seattle, it is standard time that sucks. We need DST year-round.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213059841#post21

[LisaM]

35. So true.

I don't think people understand how many people here go to and from work in the dark much of the year.

[LisaM]

34. Stop it. Just stop it.

I am so looking forward to ride home on the bus in the dark.

[Mendocino]

36. Not this again

[bucolic_frolic]

39. It's not a great idea, Nixon Time was tried in 1974

School bus stops in the dark.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2016/10/30/the-year-daylight-saving-time-went-too-far/

As I recall some kids were killed or injured in a traffic accident caused by the dark, and Nixon was taking heat for it.

[Poiuyt]

52. I'd forgotten about that

I don't care though. I still want permanent DST.

[Freddie]

53. I remember that

Was a senior in HS. No one predicted that could happen?

[Tom Kitten]

40. Sunrise before 4:30 am?

No DST means sunrise as early as 4:20 am in June in Portland. Twilight of course earlier. Why is this preferable? I live in So Cal now, even on the longest day it is dark by 8 pm. I miss the long warm summer evenings.

[tavernier]

41. No! I look forward to longer light in the evenings!

I hate being plunged into darkness when we fall back in the autumn.

[brooklynite]

45. Simple solution: ditch Standard Time....

[relayerbob]

49. meh

I do like the adding an extra hour at the end of DST, though

[karin_sj]

51. We voted to get rid of it in California

I think it was at least a year ago, but it hasn't happened yet... I wonder what the holdup is.

[C Moon]

57. I just wish they would leave it as is now. Otherwise, the sun will be rising at 4:30AM in the summer

[Awsi Dooger]

58. What an idiot

If anything we need 2 hours of permanent daylight saving time

BTW, it's singular "saving time" and not the butchered plural version. I'm not surprised he screwed that up.

This is something I would expect from a Republican

[aka-chmeee]

67. A Hymn for Sen. Wyden

Him, Him, F**k him.

[Warpy]

68. Ditch STANDARD TIME instead

I don't know what sadist called it "standard," it's as arbitrary as any other time measurement.

Farmers get up in the dark no matter what time of year it is, so it doesn't help them, their clock is controlled more by roosters and the needs to stock than any notion of time. Early darkness does real harm to people with SAD. Kids could use the extra playtime outdoors instead of having it get dark at 4 PM.In addition, kids who take a bus generally have to stand out in the dark to wait for it anyway. If you want them to have daylight at the bus stop, have school start an hour later. The teenagers expecially would love that.

Wyden sounds like one of those infuriating people who bounce out of bed at 5 AM, chipper and ready for anything.

He's got it backward. Get rid of Standard Time. Lose it, flush it away, forget it ever existed. Please.

[diane in sf]

74. I completely agree. I'm a night owl and I'm tired of a world controlled by worm eaters.

[Celerity]

76. [phone]

[diane in sf]

73. I prefer the daylight at the end of the day when I have to drive home from work.

[rzemanfl]

77. With all due respect, fuck this, how many hours of sleep have I lost

since the pussy grabber and Putin stole the election? Loaning one hour in the spring and collecting it in the fall is nothing.

[Paka]

79. Wyden is my Senator, but I'm afraid I can't agree with him on this.

Although I vote in Oregon, I live in Thailand most of the year and we don't do DST. I like to visit my family in the Summer when they are on daylight time. Those late light Summer nights are wonderful.

[sinkingfeeling]

81. I have always hated it.