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BigOleDummy

(2,270 posts)
Wed Mar 11, 2020, 12:31 PM Mar 2020

Wow. The V.A. just called me..... re. Coronavirus

I get all my healthcare through the V.A. despite all the negative things you hear about them and the "system" I have had nothing but respect and top notch care from them. They treat me like a King in fact.

I have an appointment in the morning, regular scheduled checkup, and have already confirmed via text so wasn't expecting anything else from them for awhile. Now, I don't answer my phone if I don't know the number but the call I received about 15 minutes ago was the same as one I got yesterday so I looked it up. It was from the V.A. hospital and they routed my call to the clinic I use. They gave me a preliminary coronavirus "screening" over the phone, just questions for now. Then they told me that I would be screened twice at a minimum at the clinic tomorrow. Once going in and once going out. They also informed me that all but one entrance/exit would be closed.

Now, I'm old and do have pre-existing conditions, Emphysema and stage 3 COPD, but this is unprecedented. Makes me wonder a little about if maybe there's more to this than is being let on. Have not been unduly worried about it tbh but now I must say that my level of concern has risen dramatically.

One more shout out to the dedicated women and men who give us veterans healthcare and are vastly underappreciated. It seems that unlike other parts of our government THEY at least are being proactive. I'm even more impressed now than before.

60 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Wow. The V.A. just called me..... re. Coronavirus (Original Post) BigOleDummy Mar 2020 OP
Thank you for your service and be well. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2020 #1
The VA is extending my life. I WILL get to see Trump do the walk of shame out of the White House. marble falls Mar 2020 #2
I had a DDS appt. yesterday at the VA CBOC near me. Haggis for Breakfast Mar 2020 #51
You can bet the VA had a grip on this thing pretty early. Sorry about your appointment, though. marble falls Mar 2020 #58
Love the VA, great care there, but was told to arrive 2 hours early for my app next week. Ligyron Mar 2020 #59
That's great! CousinIT Mar 2020 #3
You're going to be okay. Baitball Blogger Mar 2020 #4
this is exactly what they SHOULD be doing stopdiggin Mar 2020 #34
Some volunteer orgs at the VA are stopping the volunteers for at least the next week or so. keithbvadu2 Mar 2020 #5
I was at the VA yesterday GP6971 Mar 2020 #6
Same here in Tulsa DVRacer Mar 2020 #14
Thank you for the info about Tulsa. Glad VA here doing well! bobbieinok Mar 2020 #23
As a VA employee, I'm one of those who go out of our way to make you feel like that.... SKKY Mar 2020 #7
Thank you BigOleDummy Mar 2020 #9
Awww you... SKKY Mar 2020 #10
Yep. VA does great work. 98% vets happy with their stopdiggin Mar 2020 #38
Oh my, that "socialist" VA....... luvtheGWN Mar 2020 #42
Same here. No quotation marks needed, btw: the VA IS Hortensis Mar 2020 #44
As with any institution The Wizard Mar 2020 #54
My doctor's office isn't doing any of that. I wish they were! nt SunSeeker Mar 2020 #8
I would hate to be a health care worker right now. jeffreyi Mar 2020 #11
I just spent the last week in the hospital with pneumonia-- not a VA hospital... TreasonousBastard Mar 2020 #12
Thanks for your service johnnyfins Mar 2020 #13
They're doing that at the VA in N.C. also. cwydro Mar 2020 #15
I follow the community board for West Point rainin Mar 2020 #16
My father also got top-shelf treatment from our 'version' of the VA. BobTheSubgenius Mar 2020 #17
I have had a good experience with the VA Woodwizard Mar 2020 #18
I've had nothing but CRK7376 Mar 2020 #19
The VA Ananda62 Mar 2020 #20
The VA is regularly trashed becuase it is socialized medicine MadLinguist Mar 2020 #24
You have pre-existing conditions that make you both more PoindexterOglethorpe Mar 2020 #21
It's great that the VA is addressing this but... Mars and Minerva Mar 2020 #22
might be the only way to get tested, and so may be worth the risk MadLinguist Mar 2020 #26
Drive-thru testing is being done in Seattle and other places flibbitygiblets Mar 2020 #32
#Pathogen45 nt Mars and Minerva Mar 2020 #47
I don't have a looming appt, but I got the same call... Wounded Bear Mar 2020 #25
The VA is part of the "Steady State". Baked Potato Mar 2020 #27
Our V.A. in a Martinsburg WV has been restricted Maggiemayhem Mar 2020 #28
We have no confirmed cases of COVID-19 in the state . Maggiemayhem Mar 2020 #29
A friend of mine works at a VA clinic. Pacifist Patriot Mar 2020 #30
One case of coronavirus in Portland, OR....at the VA Hospital Hulk Mar 2020 #31
Just don't take that screening to mean you are safe. KY_EnviroGuy Mar 2020 #33
Robley Rex in Louisville? BigOleDummy Mar 2020 #35
This was from back in the 90s.... KY_EnviroGuy Mar 2020 #41
Agreed BigOleDummy Mar 2020 #45
Just want to say BigOleDummy Mar 2020 #36
Kudos to the VA for being on top of their game. gldstwmn Mar 2020 #37
My husband has the same experience mountain grammy Mar 2020 #39
Hey, Biggie, my dad and uncle were in the army...I loved being a army brat! Also, now that I'm Karadeniz Mar 2020 #40
Thanks for sharing your story Dem2 Mar 2020 #43
My Dad is going to VA for Chemo, he just got informed that only one person can come with him. OverBurn Mar 2020 #46
The VA deals with a lot of seniors Buzz cook Mar 2020 #48
Thanks for the V.A. shout out. argyl Mar 2020 #49
My pleasure BigOleDummy Mar 2020 #50
Add my name to the list of Lord Ludd Mar 2020 #52
Good luck Joinfortmill Mar 2020 #53
My tribe IncaRoads Mar 2020 #55
Seeing the same in SoCal catchnrelease Mar 2020 #56
I audited VA hospitals for 8 years. Quemado Mar 2020 #57
Well..... update sorta BigOleDummy Mar 2020 #60

marble falls

(57,055 posts)
2. The VA is extending my life. I WILL get to see Trump do the walk of shame out of the White House.
Wed Mar 11, 2020, 12:35 PM
Mar 2020

I am 100% satisfied with my VA care.

Haggis for Breakfast

(6,831 posts)
51. I had a DDS appt. yesterday at the VA CBOC near me.
Wed Mar 11, 2020, 10:34 PM
Mar 2020

They first called me the day before to screen me. Then when I got to the CBOC, there was an RN at the front door, asking more questions.

Just before I left, one of the hygienists came out into the hallway and said that they had just gotten orders "from the top" that "ALL aerisolized procedures were cancelled for the next two weeks."

So, essentially, the VA Dental Service is shut down.

Thank you, trumpie, you stupid, incompetent buffoon.

Ligyron

(7,622 posts)
59. Love the VA, great care there, but was told to arrive 2 hours early for my app next week.
Thu Mar 12, 2020, 11:33 AM
Mar 2020

Rest of the notification just like yours, i.e. only main entrance open, etc.

Wonder why they can't just do telecare for most stuff they have that available it says? But for the bi annual guess it has to be hands on? Yikes, gonna secure message them now.

BTW, I'd be dead now without their care as I'm pretty much uninsurable and could't afford the insurance rates now anyway.

Baitball Blogger

(46,697 posts)
4. You're going to be okay.
Wed Mar 11, 2020, 12:43 PM
Mar 2020

They finally have a screening policy in place so they don't become a vector to this virus. We learned that hospitals and waiting rooms are a possible place to spread the virus, so they're being proactive.

This is a good thing.

stopdiggin

(11,285 posts)
34. this is exactly what they SHOULD be doing
Wed Mar 11, 2020, 02:44 PM
Mar 2020

and please thank all that you see at the VA (when you get there) for all the extra work and effort that they're putting in (and will be in, for months on out) being as proactive as they know how. Brava!

keithbvadu2

(36,722 posts)
5. Some volunteer orgs at the VA are stopping the volunteers for at least the next week or so.
Wed Mar 11, 2020, 12:45 PM
Mar 2020

Some volunteer orgs at the VA are stopping the volunteers for at least the next week or so.

GP6971

(31,133 posts)
6. I was at the VA yesterday
Wed Mar 11, 2020, 12:46 PM
Mar 2020

to renew my Rxs. Only the main entrance was open and they conducted screening before you entered the main part of the building. Next week I go back to get my 2nd Shingles shot.

I too am extremely happy with the care the VA is providing...much more comprehensive than when I was with our company health care plan.

DVRacer

(707 posts)
14. Same here in Tulsa
Wed Mar 11, 2020, 01:10 PM
Mar 2020

Went to my 6 month check up and all entrances were closed save the main entrance. I was greeted at the edge of the awning by a nurse and clipboard. Asked first if I had an appointment or other business. Then several screening questions after answering had a green sticker placed on my shirt and told go directly to my team waiting area. We do have two active cases in Tulsa County so seemed reasonable.

SKKY

(11,801 posts)
7. As a VA employee, I'm one of those who go out of our way to make you feel like that....
Wed Mar 11, 2020, 12:46 PM
Mar 2020

...As a fellow VET, I appreciate it as well. But what you just described is happening at every VA Medical Center. Employees in/out one entrance. Patients/Guests in/out another. They dealing with this, I think, as best they absolutely can.

BigOleDummy

(2,270 posts)
9. Thank you
Wed Mar 11, 2020, 12:52 PM
Mar 2020

I've watched and read and listened to so much crap being said about the , for me, life giving people who work in the V.A. health system that it just drives me crazy. I hear thank you for your service a lot and yes its nice to hear but the women and men of the VA deserve the same. I never forget to thank my team for THEIR service to US. So thank YOU ..... I guess as a veteran you deserve twice the thanks. This veteran at least appreciates what you do for us.

stopdiggin

(11,285 posts)
38. Yep. VA does great work. 98% vets happy with their
Wed Mar 11, 2020, 02:53 PM
Mar 2020

service and care. They get a lot of crap that they don't deserve. (Every large organization has some snafus .. and some dead wood. Ask anybody that served ... Right?) But most of the people working for the VA are solid gold!

Your service is appreciated .. and your thanks is appreciated too.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
44. Same here. No quotation marks needed, btw: the VA IS
Wed Mar 11, 2020, 03:26 PM
Mar 2020

socialized medicine, an extension begun in the mid 19th century of military care.

That's why it's far far more cost effective than for-profit, capitalist Medicare. MfA would of course be for-profit, same as the ACA and Medicare.

The Wizard

(12,541 posts)
54. As with any institution
Wed Mar 11, 2020, 10:50 PM
Mar 2020

there is the 15% factor. On any given day 15% of the people in that institution are going to be assholes. Sometimes it's your turn to deal with them. By and large I get excellent treatment at the VA. On one occasion I went to the patient advocate and the issue was corrected immediately.
Trump turned over operations to three of his Mar-A-Lardo cronies and services have declined. His goal is to privatize the VA and cede control to his corrupt mobster friends.

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
12. I just spent the last week in the hospital with pneumonia-- not a VA hospital...
Wed Mar 11, 2020, 12:57 PM
Mar 2020

and the first thing they looked for was Corona. If I had the flu, they would have put me upstairs in isolation, Corona either up there or a special super-isolation in another hospital around here.

The VA always screens me for possible problems, even before this. Always questions about travel, symptoms, whatever. I'm assuming I didn't get a call from them because they were aware I was in the hospital.

johnnyfins

(815 posts)
13. Thanks for your service
Wed Mar 11, 2020, 12:59 PM
Mar 2020

It's nice to hear stories of the system working. It usually only when it's not working.

rainin

(3,010 posts)
16. I follow the community board for West Point
Wed Mar 11, 2020, 01:12 PM
Mar 2020

and learned they are renovating a hotel for quarantining positive cases. They seem to be taking it seriously, too. Thank goodness. Although all the cadets are all over the world right now for Spring Break. When they get home, hopefully, they screen every last one before they are allowed on post

Thank you for your service

BobTheSubgenius

(11,562 posts)
17. My father also got top-shelf treatment from our 'version' of the VA.
Wed Mar 11, 2020, 01:15 PM
Mar 2020

I know this is an ancillary point in your OP, but I'm so grateful to them.

During a conversation with a woman there, I said that we weren't looking for a handout, and she said "No one thinks that. Your father is a hero and we owe him this."

"Hero" is overused these days, but he was a Spitfire pilot during WW2.

Woodwizard

(839 posts)
18. I have had a good experience with the VA
Wed Mar 11, 2020, 01:18 PM
Mar 2020

I wish I had started using them earlier, I was on private insurance through my wife, as the time for her retirement was coming up I went to the VA, very nice people professional and prompt every time I have been there.

CRK7376

(2,199 posts)
19. I've had nothing but
Wed Mar 11, 2020, 01:27 PM
Mar 2020

good care from the VA. Never had an issue getting an appointment or being seen by the Clinic and Hospital in NC that I go to.....Haven't dealt with this latest issue yet and hope to stay away from it.....

Ananda62

(258 posts)
20. The VA
Wed Mar 11, 2020, 01:33 PM
Mar 2020

I don’t post much, but have lurked on this site for years.
I served from 1990-94 (Gulf War years) and then returned to work in the federal government. After retiring from the government, I found out I qualified for VA healthcare due to my disability. The care I received at the VA has been excellent - the doctors and nurses have gone above and beyond what I ever expected and am pleased that they have tele-medicine services now so that I don’t always need to go to the clinic.

MadLinguist

(789 posts)
24. The VA is regularly trashed becuase it is socialized medicine
Wed Mar 11, 2020, 01:48 PM
Mar 2020

It practices preventative medicine, and !horror of horrors! funds its own research.
Because most of the veteran population is older, what the VA is doing proactively RE Covid-19 is precisely right, and frankly ought to be the model for other healthcare institutions.
VA employees are also restricted from travel for the next 30 days, unless they can show the travel to be "essential".

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,839 posts)
21. You have pre-existing conditions that make you both more
Wed Mar 11, 2020, 01:37 PM
Mar 2020

vulnerable to lots of things, and in much greater danger of dying if you get the corona virus. Or even regular flu. They are taking sensible precautions, especially for someone like you.

Mars and Minerva

(369 posts)
22. It's great that the VA is addressing this but...
Wed Mar 11, 2020, 01:43 PM
Mar 2020

unless I had no choice, I would stay far, far away from any doctor's office or medical facility.

Last month I went for my regular checkup and came home with a nasty cold/fluish thingy. I was sick for three weeks.

flibbitygiblets

(7,220 posts)
32. Drive-thru testing is being done in Seattle and other places
Wed Mar 11, 2020, 02:22 PM
Mar 2020

If the only need is a test, this should be widespread in terms of how to do it right.

That is, assuming we can get enough f**king tests. The CDC/White House is still fumbling getting enough tests for those requesting them.

All the blame for the bungled Coronavirus (aka Captain Trumps) goes directly to Donald Trump.

Wounded Bear

(58,618 posts)
25. I don't have a looming appt, but I got the same call...
Wed Mar 11, 2020, 01:50 PM
Mar 2020

more or less, about the limited access. It didn't say anything about screening that I remember, but it all makes sense.

Hell 3/4's of the patients in the VA fit the 'pre-existing condition' model. I certainly do. With your afflictions, where you're likely going in there hacking and coughing, you're gonna get noticed. I don't have chronic respiratory problems like you.

Oh, I get my care at the Beacon Hill facility in Downtown Seattle hospital.

Maggiemayhem

(809 posts)
28. Our V.A. in a Martinsburg WV has been restricted
Wed Mar 11, 2020, 02:07 PM
Mar 2020

For visitors use for a couple weeks now They said due to flu.

Pacifist Patriot

(24,653 posts)
30. A friend of mine works at a VA clinic.
Wed Mar 11, 2020, 02:11 PM
Mar 2020

He told me about the precautions and screening of both staff and patients. He also told me they don't have COVID-19 tests yet. That floors me. With the average age of their patients and what many of them have been through, I would have expected the VA to be among the first to get tests.

Hope all goes well with your check up!

 

Hulk

(6,699 posts)
31. One case of coronavirus in Portland, OR....at the VA Hospital
Wed Mar 11, 2020, 02:14 PM
Mar 2020

Maybe more cases in Oregon...I'm not sure. My daughter just texted me from there yesterday, and she said I might want to postpone my surgery, scheduled April 10th, for another time because of it. Not a chance.

I am living in central Mexico, and I'm flying up in a few weeks for the surgery, and a half dozen other appointments with the VA and other places. I have complete faith in the VA.

I've depended on them for 15 years now, and they have been the best! I was in Vegas during December, and was the victim of an assault. I went to the VA just to be certain I didn't break any bones when I was knocked on my butt. I wasn't as impressed with one incident there, but that was a "one off"...and I'm certainly not going to hold the VA responsible for what one employee did. Long story, not worth going into; but the VA followed up with it, and I am 100% satisfied.

I suspect this virus is going to be with us for a long time to come. Not trying to be a pessimist, but just considering how this thing keeps popping up around the country and world.

KY_EnviroGuy

(14,489 posts)
33. Just don't take that screening to mean you are safe.
Wed Mar 11, 2020, 02:36 PM
Mar 2020

Although I appreciate the VA's efforts to minimize exposures (for you and them), there's no guarantee of no carriers of the virus in that facility. Nor does it guarantee there's none been there recently. We should use the precautionary measures we've been drilled on no matter where we go.

Delighted you are getting good care with the VA. My experiences from taking veteran friends to appointments have always been very good, with the possible exception of some ER visits where service was horribly slow.

KY.............

BigOleDummy

(2,270 posts)
35. Robley Rex in Louisville?
Wed Mar 11, 2020, 02:46 PM
Mar 2020

I've never had to wait in the ER there for more than 15/20 minutes max. Usually see someone within minutes of signing in. My clinic is the Newburg one and I CANNOT say enough good things about either Dr. Malubay (he LISTENS to me) or the staff there. Top notch one and all.

In fact the worst part of my VA experience, and its BAD, is having to look at that smirking orange Putins puppet faces picture on the wall when I walk through the lobby.

KY_EnviroGuy

(14,489 posts)
41. This was from back in the 90s....
Wed Mar 11, 2020, 03:06 PM
Mar 2020

one very rough patch at VA Fort Knox (took a friend there to ER with a heart issue) and a couple of times at Louisville VA Main Hospital, in that some doctors just were not competent. However, some of these were for a female dependent of a male vet. Many other experiences at Louisville Main VA were excellent although painfully slow and parking was a nightmare.

Experiences at the Shively office were very good when I helped an old boy that was an Army vet. Although I'm not a vet (missed 'Nam just by a hair), I seemed to have taken friends to several VA facilities dozens of times for some reason.

Strangely enough, the couple I helped the most lived in Okalona, yet I never recall going to Newburg. If that's the one near the airport, I thing they went there once on their own and were happy with the service.

And yes, I clearly recall almost loosing my lunch after seeing W's photo there back in the day.

Helping vet friends deal with ExpressScripts back then is another nightmare for another day.......

BigOleDummy

(2,270 posts)
45. Agreed
Wed Mar 11, 2020, 03:36 PM
Mar 2020

You are right about the parking for sure lol. My only "complaint" and anymore .... they have valet parking so that's really not an issue these days.

BigOleDummy

(2,270 posts)
36. Just want to say
Wed Mar 11, 2020, 02:50 PM
Mar 2020

A big thank you to all who have wished me well and the thanks for the service. I'm a bit overwhelmed by this to be completely honest. Been a member for years but don't post often and am honored that everyone has been so nice. Thank you

Karadeniz

(22,486 posts)
40. Hey, Biggie, my dad and uncle were in the army...I loved being a army brat! Also, now that I'm
Wed Mar 11, 2020, 02:54 PM
Mar 2020

An old civilian, I appreciate the healthcare we had...make an appointment, walk in, see the doctor, leave, no talk of payment. And dental care. And eye care. Easy peasy. That's what I'd like for everyone!

Dem2

(8,168 posts)
43. Thanks for sharing your story
Wed Mar 11, 2020, 03:21 PM
Mar 2020

This is the only way we're going to be properly informed in this crisis, it's clear the gov't has it's hands full right now.

OverBurn

(950 posts)
46. My Dad is going to VA for Chemo, he just got informed that only one person can come with him.
Wed Mar 11, 2020, 07:56 PM
Mar 2020

This is unprecedented. I'm glad the VA is taking this very seriously. Our idiot President sure is not.

Buzz cook

(2,471 posts)
48. The VA deals with a lot of seniors
Wed Mar 11, 2020, 09:06 PM
Mar 2020

and others with compromised immune systems. I'm glad they're taking these kinds of measures.

argyl

(3,064 posts)
49. Thanks for the V.A. shout out.
Wed Mar 11, 2020, 09:34 PM
Mar 2020

I'm not a veteran but my father was a physician who spent most of his career working for the V.A.
Houston and Temple,Texas were the two hospitals he worked for.

He was dedicated to his patients and to the mission of the V.A. I recall the pain in his face when he came home after losing a patient.

Oh yeah, he was a vet. Was at the draft board Monday after Pearl Harbor. Fredonia, Kansas I believe it was.
And so was my uncle. In Bryan, Texas. Uncle Homer was quite a guy. Flew his missions over Europe and got the Distinguished Flying Cross. Had a lot to say about the Tuskegee Airmen. Highest of praise of course.

BigOleDummy

(2,270 posts)
50. My pleasure
Wed Mar 11, 2020, 09:59 PM
Mar 2020

I'm in debt to the VA for more than I care to get into atm. I still have my arm for one. The care I've received from the VA has not only given me more years to live but my left arm too. I fully believe what you say about his dedication to his patients as I've seen it over and over from not only my Doctors but everyone from the receptionists to the nurses to the specialists. My audiologist went out of her way for me as has the entire staff from time to time. I salute your Father both for his service during the War and his service afterwards. The VA healthcare system does NOT get enough credit or praise.

Lord Ludd

(585 posts)
52. Add my name to the list of
Wed Mar 11, 2020, 10:41 PM
Mar 2020

highly satisfied VA Health consumers. I had lots of gripes as a reluctant soldier 50 years ago (yes, even a Lord got drafted), but (almost) all is forgiven in my dotage.

IncaRoads

(97 posts)
55. My tribe
Wed Mar 11, 2020, 11:29 PM
Mar 2020

is doing the same thing with their health clinics. Glad to hear, and stay alert and follow the guidelines, you should be fine.

catchnrelease

(1,945 posts)
56. Seeing the same in SoCal
Thu Mar 12, 2020, 03:51 AM
Mar 2020

My husband has been in and out of the local (Long Beach) VA frequently since last Nov due to some serious heart issues. Since last week they have done as others here have mentioned--limited access, screening questions at the open doors, phone call questions etc. Glad that they are trying to prevent what would be a disaster if the virus spreads in the facility.

The care and service my husband has received has been outstanding. When he started his latest problems in Nov and the ER doctors decided they did not have the ability to do what would be required to fix the problem, they transferred him to a top teaching hospital a few cities away. He was in cardio ICU for a week with amazing care/doctors and a couple of delicate procedures. Then back to the VA for a couple more procedures which the VA was able to do at their own facility. The total cost for those 2 weeks was astronomical but, thank goodness!!!, it has cost us nothing. Because this VA has a program where the teaching hospital interns come to the VA to do rotations there is a reciprocal deal that some VA patients can be referred to the other place, and the VA covers the cost. I'm sure this saved his life.

There are always a few small bumps along the way--yes, parking is nearly nonexistent, and sometimes appointments get screwed up. But I am totally grateful for the VA and the staff that care for our vets.

Quemado

(1,262 posts)
57. I audited VA hospitals for 8 years.
Thu Mar 12, 2020, 10:15 AM
Mar 2020

I audited the financial and administrative parts of VA hospitals, not the medical part. Though I didn't audit the medical part, I did have many, many interactions with VA employees and patients. After 8 years of this, it's my understanding that the VA does a good job of rendering medical care.

BigOleDummy

(2,270 posts)
60. Well..... update sorta
Thu Mar 12, 2020, 05:36 PM
Mar 2020

Went in and had all my bloodwork done, was screened twice as they told me I would be. One veteran had been to South Korea in past 2 weeks.... took him straight back and I assume tested him.

I was way early and as I was waiting two dumb *%^&&%$&^* 's started talking about how this was all a hoax by the Democrats to wreck chumps reelection, the look the receptionist gave them was priceless by the way. Only me and one other said anything at all. Told the main idiot that he was entitled to his own opinions but not his own facts after he said the regular flu was more deadly than the coronavirus. Told him to watch some real news and not get his information from facebook. That brought a chuckle from a few of us. He answered that he got his news from a REAL news source, I laughed then and said "Fox"?!? as incredulously as I could and that brought more chuckles.

These wingnuts will kill us all.

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