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Sat Mar 21, 2020, 09:47 AM

Prison, for Trump, is out of the question.

It is difficult for me to see repeated DU threads and posts advocating for the imprisonment of Donald Trump. I am always tempted to chime in with Yes, but ... .

It's not that Trump doesn't deserve prison. For acts committed while he was President, I thought George W. Bush deserved imprisonment as well, but it is important to understand that no President of the United States has ever, ever, been imprisoned after his term in office, and it's not like all of our Presidents have been saints. No, some of our Presidents have deserved imprisonment. We just don't do it--never have, and I hope we never will. Why?

It's called THE PEACEFUL TRANSITION OF POWER.

Remarks of the Hon. Dianne Feinstein upon the Inauguration of President Barack Obama


The world is watching today as our great democracy engages in this peaceful transition of power. Here, on the National Mall, where we remember the founders of our nation and those who fought to make it free, we gather to etch another line in the solid stone of history. The freedom of a people to choose its leaders is the root of liberty. In a world where political strife is too often settled with violence, we come here every four years to bestow the power of the presidency upon our democratically elected leader.

Those who doubt the supremacy of the ballot over the bullet can never diminish the power engendered by non-violent struggles for justice and equality like the one that made this day possible. No triumph tainted by brutality could ever match the sweet victory of this hour and of what it means to those who marched and died to make it a reality.

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Remarks_at_the_inauguration_of_Barack_Obama


With the exception of the election of 1860, whenever power has switched hands from one party to another in the United States, it has done so peacefully, but it has done so with one, key caveat. Neither the outgoing President, nor key members of the outgoing party, can be criminally charged for acts committed while they were in power. That's it. That's our only rule, and that's the only reason, historically speaking, that the outgoing party has actually been willing to relinquish power following an electoral loss. If Trump knew that he was going to get prosecuted (and probably imprisoned) as soon as he left office, he would refuse to surrender the reigns of power. On the other hand, if he knew he was going to get a free pass if only he would agree to allow a new administration to control the government, he might actually go peacefully. So we all hope.

So please, drop your fantasies of prosecuting and imprisoning this horrible excuse for a man. It won't happen. It shouldn't happen. No matter how heinous his crimes, the continuity of the republic is more important, and the peaceful transition of power can only be achieved if we give Trump a free pass for everything that he has done in office (and before)--just so that he will go away when his time is up.

-Laelth

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Reply Prison, for Trump, is out of the question. (Original post)
Laelth Mar 2020 OP
PubliusEnigma Mar 2020 #1
Laelth Mar 2020 #10
Zoonart Mar 2020 #2
Laelth Mar 2020 #12
Blecht Mar 2020 #13
Laelth Mar 2020 #17
kimbutgar Mar 2020 #27
Butterflylady Mar 2020 #79
Me. Mar 2020 #77
dhol82 Mar 2020 #81
Me. Mar 2020 #83
The Velveteen Ocelot Mar 2020 #3
Laelth Mar 2020 #18
gldstwmn Mar 2020 #37
True Blue American Mar 2020 #52
The Velveteen Ocelot Mar 2020 #55
homegirl Mar 2020 #90
Phoenix61 Mar 2020 #4
Solomon Mar 2020 #5
Laelth Mar 2020 #6
d_b Mar 2020 #26
SCantiGOP Mar 2020 #7
Laelth Mar 2020 #9
GReedDiamond Mar 2020 #32
Laelth Mar 2020 #39
GReedDiamond Mar 2020 #45
CrispyQ Mar 2020 #8
Laelth Mar 2020 #29
treestar Mar 2020 #11
Laelth Mar 2020 #40
treestar Mar 2020 #48
Laelth Mar 2020 #51
treestar Mar 2020 #56
Laelth Mar 2020 #58
sop Mar 2020 #14
Laelth Mar 2020 #43
sop Mar 2020 #53
Laelth Mar 2020 #87
unblock Mar 2020 #15
Laelth Mar 2020 #50
hlthe2b Mar 2020 #16
Laelth Mar 2020 #30
EmeraldCoaster Mar 2020 #19
Laelth Mar 2020 #33
not_the_one Mar 2020 #85
Laelth Mar 2020 #88
malaise Mar 2020 #20
Laelth Mar 2020 #35
malaise Mar 2020 #38
Laelth Mar 2020 #41
malaise Mar 2020 #42
edhopper Mar 2020 #21
Laelth Mar 2020 #36
Lock him up. Mar 2020 #49
Laelth Mar 2020 #78
Lock him up. Mar 2020 #82
Guy Whitey Corngood Mar 2020 #22
Laelth Mar 2020 #46
Guy Whitey Corngood Mar 2020 #59
Laelth Mar 2020 #61
Guy Whitey Corngood Mar 2020 #84
crickets Mar 2020 #23
Laelth Mar 2020 #47
crickets Mar 2020 #66
smirkymonkey Mar 2020 #24
Laelth Mar 2020 #63
smirkymonkey Mar 2020 #64
Laelth Mar 2020 #65
smirkymonkey Mar 2020 #76
RealityChik Mar 2020 #25
Laelth Mar 2020 #67
Under The Radar Mar 2020 #28
Laelth Mar 2020 #68
Under The Radar Mar 2020 #69
Laelth Mar 2020 #71
MoonRiver Mar 2020 #31
MyNameGoesHere Mar 2020 #34
Mr. Ected Mar 2020 #44
democratisphere Mar 2020 #54
Laelth Mar 2020 #70
democratisphere Mar 2020 #72
Laelth Mar 2020 #73
Crunchy Frog Mar 2020 #57
Laelth Mar 2020 #74
Turbineguy Mar 2020 #60
Laelth Mar 2020 #80
dustyscamp Mar 2020 #62
Laelth Mar 2020 #89
Hoyt Mar 2020 #75
standingtall Mar 2020 #86

Response to Laelth (Original post)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 09:49 AM

1. Trump won't go peacefully. You should know that by now.

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Response to PubliusEnigma (Reply #1)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:13 AM

10. I must continue to hope that he will. Threatening to imprison him doesn't help. n/t



-Laelth

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Response to Laelth (Original post)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 09:51 AM

2. BLACK SWAN...

Anything can happen.

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Response to Zoonart (Reply #2)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:18 AM

12. I must admit to ignorance, here.

I don't get the BLACK SWAN allusion.



-Laelth

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Response to Laelth (Reply #12)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:22 AM

13. Wikipedia entry for Black Swan Theory

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Response to Blecht (Reply #13)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:30 AM

17. I love DU. Thank you. n/t



-Laelth

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Response to Blecht (Reply #13)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:31 PM

27. I learned something new today

Thank you.

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Response to Blecht (Reply #13)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 08:08 PM

79. I didn't know there was such a thing as black swans.

My bad.

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Response to Zoonart (Reply #2)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 08:03 PM

77. Here's My Black Swan Theory

He ends up catching the virus and it is truly the end...titled the Just Desserts Black Swan

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Response to Me. (Reply #77)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 08:41 PM

81. If it were only that easy.

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Response to dhol82 (Reply #81)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 09:07 PM

83. How Is It That It Hits Everyone But The Big Target At The Epicenter

Even Mar-A-Lago has been declared a hot spot

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Response to Laelth (Original post)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 09:52 AM

3. While I would love to see His Lardship waddling off to the pokey

wearing a jumpsuit that matched his face, I realize that it's not likely to happen. What I want more than anything is for him to just go the fuck away. Forever. Whatever happens to him, I don't really care as long as I don't have to see his ugly orange face or hear his whiny voice ever again. The worst punishment for him wouldn't be prison (I hear Bernie Madoff is thriving there, having become something of a celebrity); it would be total obscurity. That's what I wish for him.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #3)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:36 AM

18. Hear! Hear! n/t



-Laelth

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #3)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 04:15 PM

37. Agree. At this point if he would just go away

I would be fine with that.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #3)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 05:59 PM

52. I do not think Trump will

Go to Prison. I do think he will be involved in law suits for the rest of his life and will die a broken old man.

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Response to True Blue American (Reply #52)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 06:01 PM

55. That would be fine with me.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #3)

Sun Mar 29, 2020, 12:10 PM

90. Not Going to

Happen because Donald is going to flee to extradition free Russia. His BFF will welcome him with honors and ceremony. Donald, being Donald will seek the limelight. Putin will arrange for Donald to have a fatal encounter with a poisoned umbrella tip.

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Response to Laelth (Original post)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 09:53 AM

4. Maybe it won't but it absolutely should.

The whole “you can’t indict a sitting president” forces the issue. This has absolutely nothing to do with the “peaceful transition of power” it’s about being prosecuted for criminal behavior.

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Response to Laelth (Original post)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 09:54 AM

5. Bullcrap.

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Response to Solomon (Reply #5)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 09:57 AM

6. Thank you for the thoughtful reply. LOL. n/t



-Laelth

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Response to Solomon (Reply #5)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:30 PM

26. This is true

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Response to Laelth (Original post)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:02 AM

7. Had Nixon been prosecuted

We might not have trump doing some of the obvious illegal acts he is perpetrating in public view.
I have no issue at all with an investigation of his crimes after he leaves office and appropriate action.
One ideal should stand above all others: NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.

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Response to SCantiGOP (Reply #7)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:11 AM

9. I hear you. I would like to believe that no one is above the law.

Our history, however, shows that we follow a somewhat different rule. YOU ARE above the law if you win the national popularity contest that makes you President of the United States, but this is true if, and only if, you agree to relinquish power when you are defeated at the ballot box.

In the grand scheme of things, this is not a bad rule, imo.

-Laelth

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Response to Laelth (Reply #9)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 03:05 PM

32. "YOU ARE above the law if you win the national popularity contest..."

Except president dumb motherfucker did NOT win "the national popularity contest," he lost the popular vote to Secy. Clinton.

And once he's out of office, he SHOULD be prosecuted for his many criminal acts while in office, regardless of the fact no previous president has been.

There must be consequences for his criminal actions or we'll get another Trumpfuck-styled asshole fake president in the future.

As already noted by the poster you replied to, if Tricky Dick had not been pardoned by Ford, we might not be in the situation we are in now.

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Response to GReedDiamond (Reply #32)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 04:18 PM

39. I feel you. I don't even disagree ... with the feeling.

But Trump isn’t going to prison. No former president in our history has. Joe Biden, once elected, will give the Orange Menace blanket immunity, and that will be the end of it. The interests of the republic and the peaceful transition of power must take precedence over our judicial principle that no person is above the law.

-Laelth

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Response to Laelth (Reply #39)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 05:13 PM

45. The peaceful transition of power can be accomplished...

...then FORMER president hitler junior can be investigated and prosecuted.

President Biden should do the right thing and NOT give the fucking cretin "blanket immunity."

Just because no previous president has been prosecuted for crimes committed in office doesn't mean it couldn't happen someday.

I will hold out hope for that happening.

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Response to Laelth (Original post)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:11 AM

8. Peaceful transition of power is just another norm the Con is going to blow out of the water.

If the dems ever gain control of the WH and both chambers of Congress they need to act with boldness and pass laws that make some of our norms and traditions actual laws. Like all presidential candidates SHALL reveal their last ten years of tax filings.

Unfortunately, I haven't seen this kind of boldness in our party in a long time. I think the old guard still hasn't come to terms with the fact that their colleagues across the aisle—some of whom they've worked with for decades—are no longer advocates of true representative government. Actually, they never were, but demographics were in their favor. Now that that's changing, they are going to lie, cheat, & steal to stay in power. They have almost succeeded in getting one party rule.

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Response to CrispyQ (Reply #8)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:51 PM

29. I hope you are wrong. We shall see what we see. n/t



-Laelth

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Response to Laelth (Original post)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:17 AM

11. Huge difference

of course, they should not be imprisoned for their politics. There are countries in which the opposition is locked up or put under house arrest for no other reason - dictators do that to their opponents.

There are countries where you can be locked up for "insulting the head of state."

There are no political crimes on the books in the US of that type. But someone who commits an actual crime is not above the law.

The Dotard probably won't go to prison, but in theory if a crime can be proven against him, why shouldn't he? It would have nothing to do with a peaceful transition.

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Response to treestar (Reply #11)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 04:22 PM

40. Nixon was clearly guilty of definite crimes.

He didn’t go to prison. No president in our history has. The same will be the case with Trump. Once elected, Joe Biden will give him blanket immunity in exchange for Trump’s going quietly into the night, and we will all breathe a sigh of relief knowing that Trump is no longer holding the reigns of power.

The interests of the republic (including the peaceful transition of power) must supersede the interests of justice (including the principle that no person is above the law).

-Laelth

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Response to Laelth (Reply #40)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 05:50 PM

48. Nixon was pardoned by someone of his own party though

Biden would be doing this for an opposition person. And would get plenty of criticism for it right on DU about the Dems turning the other cheek, the Rs would not do the same, etc.

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Response to treestar (Reply #48)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 05:57 PM

51. Obama let Bush off the hook and nobody batted an eye.

I think it will work the same way when Biden lets Trump off the hook.



-Laelth

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Response to Laelth (Reply #51)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 06:03 PM

56. I wouldn't say that

I've seen a lot of complaint on DU anyway for Obama not doing anything about Bush.

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Response to treestar (Reply #56)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 06:08 PM

58. I saw that too. We were both here back then.

If I minimize the arguments that those of us on the left made in favor of prosecuting Bush, it is because I was disappointed, in the end. I know that nothing came of it. Evidently, the peaceful transition of power trumps justice, as I learned in 2009, and as I am warning people is likely to be the case in 2021 when Trump gets away with all of his criminal offenses against the people of the United States.

For better or for worse ...

-Laelth

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Response to Laelth (Original post)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:25 AM

14. Senators, Congressmen, Cabinet Members, Governors, Judges and others have been jailed

for committing crimes while in office. I know of no law or custom exempting a President from criminal liability for crimes committed while in (or out of) office, after he's no longer POTUS.

Prosecuting a president for political crimes - like starting a war based on lies, causing thousands of deaths from mishandling a national health crisis, or simply being a divisive, racist demagogue - is not what we're talking about here. Actual crimes - like tax evasion, public corruption, campaign finance violations, money laundering, and others - must be prosecuted, even if it's a president.

Nixon wasn't prosecuted because Ford pardoned him. Unless Trump manages to have Pence pardon him on the way out, and only for federal crimes, if this POS can be shown to have broken the law, he has to be prosecuted, and jailed if need be. That goes for his family as well.

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Response to sop (Reply #14)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 04:53 PM

43. You prove my point.

You posted an excellent list of George W. Bush’s crimes—crimes for which he could have been prosecuted and imprisoned, but he wasn’t. Why?

It’s long-standing American tradition. No president has ever gone to prison for crimes committed in office. That’s how we insure the peaceful transition of power. The interests of the republic (the peaceful transition of power) take precedence over the interests of justice. So it has been throughout the 233 years of our republic’s history.

-Laelth

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Response to Laelth (Reply #43)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 06:00 PM

53. There's a difference political "crimes," or abuse of power while in office, and actual felonies.

Numerous presidents and other elected/appointed officials have engaged in abuses of power while in office, but have not been criminally prosecuted. We generally don't prosecute political acts, no matter how terrible. However, if an elected official breaks an actual criminal or civil law, either while in or out of office, they are routinely prosecuted.

VP Spiro Agnew was investigated for criminal conspiracy, bribery, extortion and tax fraud. He took kickbacks from contractors during his time as Baltimore County Executive and Governor of Maryland. Agnew worked out a deal to avoid a trial and pleaded no contest to a single felony charge of tax evasion. He resigned from office in disgrace. Democrats at the time wanted him imprisoned.

Bill Clinton was found guilty of giving false testimony (perjury) and contempt after lying under oath about sex with Monica Lewinsky. After a plea deal to avoid further criminal prosecution after leaving office, Clinton was fined $90,000 and disbarred. Republicans at the time wanted him to go to jail.

In recent years a Governor went to jail for selling Obama's Senate seat, the Speaker of the House was imprisoned for covering up sexual abuse of boys, Nixon's Attorney General and numerous members of his administration went to prison following Watergate, Reagan's administration was full of convicted felons of all stripes, and the list goes on.

Trump has already been indicted for a crime in NY, and his attorney, acting as his bagman in the commission of that crime, is currently in jail. Several other Trump henchmen are either in jail or awaiting sentencing for crimes committed on his behalf. If after further investigation it can be determinec that Trump may be guilty of additional felonies - like money laundering, tax evasion and God only knows what else - he can and will be charged and prosecuted. Whether the scumbag goes to prison, or not, is another matter.

Personally, I'd like to see a plea deal worked out so Trump and his entire crime family are barred from ever speaking publicly in any way, using twitter or other social media, going on FOX News to spread their lies and BS, or ever participating in our political process again. Call it a sort of a Non Disclosure Agreement on his way out the door.

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Response to sop (Reply #53)

Sun Mar 22, 2020, 11:28 AM

87. Excellent historical post.

I feel no need to comment further. We see what we see.



-Laelth

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Response to Laelth (Original post)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:27 AM

15. overstating the point.

well, i agree that as a *practical* matter, seeing him in prison just ain't gonna happen.

however, politicians can and have gone to prison for acts committed in office.

only official acts are protected. if a president just plain murders someone in the oval office in cold blood, he can most definitely be prosecuted tried, convicted, and imprisoned for that. less theoretically, politicians have gone to prison for bribery and such. possession of illegal drugs and tax evasion have also tripped up politicians in the past.


again, though, i agree that it ain't gonna happen. he probably won't even get properly investigated, and even if he did, by the time that investigation was able to lead to an indictment, trial, and conviction, donnie would be out of office and more than able to claim that his ill health means and prison would be a death sentence, so realistically the best we could hope for would be a large fine. the best wildest hope might be house arrest where his confined to one of his mansions. big whoop.

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Response to unblock (Reply #15)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 05:53 PM

50. If he actually DID murder someone on 5th Ave., yes.

He could, and probably would, be imprisoned. Otherwise, we agree. He’s highly unlikely to face any judicial sanctions for anything that he has done in his life.

On the other hand, he will go down in history as one of only three presidents to have ever been impeached, and he will go down in history as, perhaps, THE WORST PRESIDENT IN THE HISTORY OF THIS COUNTRY. That seems fair to me.

-Laelth

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Response to Laelth (Original post)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:28 AM

16. Yes, he won't be likely held responsible for Federal Crimes while in office, But NY State CAN

and SHOULD prosecute for any state crimes predating his Presidency. No immunity there.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #16)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:53 PM

30. You're right. NY could do exactly what you suggest.

I doubt it will, however. Most of us will be happy just to see the Great Pumpkin go away.

-Laelth

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Response to Laelth (Original post)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:24 PM

19. Trump is going to go to prison .

No one is above the law.
Justice nothing to do with peaceful tradition of power.
It is a foundational governing principle.

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Response to EmeraldCoaster (Reply #19)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 03:59 PM

33. I would not put money on that prediction if I were you.

The interests of the republic must come first, even above our general principle that no person is above the law.

-Laelth

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Response to Laelth (Reply #33)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:41 PM

85. You apparently have no clue about the interests of the republic.

 

If the republic doesn't exist, the point is moot, isn't it?

If the turd gets away with this the Democratic party will be history. Is THAT what you want?

If we win and do nothing, that is it. Game over.

I don't give a damn about what has, or has never happened before. We are in a unique circumstance, and to continue as business as usual is not an acceptable option. If Biden decides to do nothing I will fight him with every ounce of my being, from day one. Only idiots repeat the past and expect different results.

Democrats are known to be a bunch of cowards. That is WHY we are in this position. I have no intention of going along, to get along.

This whole thread has me disgusted.

You are preemptively throwing in the towel, trying to convince the rest of us to go along? Yeah, right.

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Response to not_the_one (Reply #85)

Sun Mar 22, 2020, 11:32 AM

88. If prison for Trump is your ultimate goal, then, yes.

I am advising you to throw in the towel on that goal.

My goal is to get Trump out of office, and I do believe that Trump’s leaving office is in the best interests of the republic, yes. If it takes giving Trump blanket immunity from criminal prosecution to get Trump to leave peacefully, I will consider that a small price to pay.

-Laelth

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Response to Laelth (Original post)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:29 PM

20. So then why have American governments overthrown governments

across the globe and why do so many Americans support not only coups, but assassinations, invasions and occupations of other sovereign nations?

I am asking a very serious question because you cannot defend one and not the other unless you believe in your own exceptionalism. Further to believe both is madness.

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Response to malaise (Reply #20)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 04:05 PM

35. The American people don't support coups HERE.

Elsewhere, we’re not so picky and purist—for better or for worse, and our habit of supporting and fomenting violent overthrows of foreign governments is a clear stain on our history. Regardless, we’re smart enough to discourage violent revolutions HERE, and, with the exception of the election of 1860, we have been able to assure the peaceful transition of power in the United States. I think we will continue to do so. The way we will continue to do so is by giving legal immunity to Trump and his administration, no matter how guilty and/or criminally liable they may be.

-Laelth

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Response to Laelth (Reply #35)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 04:17 PM

38. Which is why the coup pulled off by the Con and his ReTHUGs was

so successful.
That approach will mean the end of the Republic because neither the Con nor ReTHUGs give a shit about democracy - they only want power and wealth.

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Response to malaise (Reply #38)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 04:29 PM

41. We outnumber them, by a long shot.

And we happen to be on the right side of history. This republic is over 233 years old. We’re also the wealthiest and most powerful nation that the world has ever seen. Trump can’t destroy this republic, nor can the pathetic Republican party.

We’re struggling, yes. This is not our most glorious hour, no, but I have strong faith that our republic can and will survive.

-Laelth

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Response to Laelth (Reply #41)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 04:31 PM

42. I too believe the system is stronger than the Con but

when you promote coups the culture eventually seeps in.

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Response to Laelth (Original post)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:39 PM

21. Nixon would have gone to prison

nt

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Response to edhopper (Reply #21)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 04:07 PM

36. That's why Ford had to pardon him. n/t

-Laelth

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Response to Laelth (Reply #36)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 05:52 PM

49. Only applied to Federal Law.

If the orange virus broke NY State Laws (money laundering, tax fraud, et al) he can be held accountable.

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Response to Lock him up. (Reply #49)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 08:07 PM

78. Quite true. He can be.

I just don't think that he will be. Most of us will be happy simply to see him gone.



-Laelth

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Response to Laelth (Reply #78)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 08:58 PM

82. Of course, the priority is to have him gone.

But I don't think Attorney General of New York Letitia James will give him a pass IF she has clear evidence he broke NY State Law, be it multiple and systematic tax frauds, bank frauds (diminishing numbers to evade taxes or increasing the same numbers to get loans, as Cohen testified to Congress). Also, all the shenanigans to launder money from Russian oligarchs. Otherwise, there are two systems of justice and that can't happen in any democratic country (or State).

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Response to Laelth (Original post)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:45 PM

22. If Ehud Olmert can go to prison, so can this walking, talking hemorrhoid. There's

nothing special about a nation that allows itself to be extorted by a criminal. People here love to claim "no one is above the law!". Yeah, we know it's bullshit. But for once it'd be nice if we actually practiced what we preach. There is nothing in the constitution that allows a chief executive to commit crimes with impunity. Only cowardice from successive administrations because they fear that the next guy will do it to them.

We used to have a Justice Department in this country. And somebody, no matter who that somebody is. Is found to have committed criminal acts. Let the chips fall where they may.

Sure, this prick is not going to jail. At least I'm 97% sure he's not. But there's no need to make excuses and rationalizations for unjust bullshit.

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Reply #22)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 05:39 PM

46. That's the thing.

I am not making excuses for Trump’s behavior, but I am explaining why he will suffer no legal consequences for his behavior. The interests of the republic (including the peaceful transition of power) supersede the interests of justice (including the principle that no person is above the law). Trump will be let off the hook in exchange for his relinquishing the reigns of power. Such has been the case throughout the history of this republic (with the notable exception of the election of 1860).

-Laelth

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Response to Laelth (Reply #46)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 06:13 PM

59. Didn't say you made excuses for his behavior. You're making excuses for some

bullshit "tradition" which excuses and encourages lawlessness at our highest levels. That bullshit needs to stop. I don't see it stopping any time soon. But it's time this fucking country grew the fuck up.

And I'm pretty sure no one here needs that "explained" to them. But they sure as shit don't have to like it.

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Reply #59)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 06:29 PM

61. Fair enough. I don't "like" it, either. But it is what it is. n/t

-Laelth

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Response to Laelth (Reply #61)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 09:48 PM

84. It may be. But other countries have proven it can be done. And somehow

they've survived. Holy shit! Imagine that. The goddamn rule of law can work. What the fuck is this country made of then?

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Response to Laelth (Original post)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:53 PM

23. I respectfully disagree.

We can have a peaceful transition of power and send a criminal politician to jail. Other governmental representatives have been found guilty of crimes committed while in office and sent to prison, whether removed from office or tried and sentenced after leaving. The president should be no different.

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Response to crickets (Reply #23)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 05:47 PM

47. Evidently, a former president IS DIFFERENT.

Not once in our nation’s history has a former president been imprisoned. Insuring the peaceful transition of power is the reason ... for better or for worse.

-Laelth

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Response to Laelth (Reply #47)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 06:51 PM

66. Yet. nt

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Response to Laelth (Original post)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:57 PM

24. I would prefer that he and his family ended up like Mussolini and his gang of

fascists.

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Response to smirkymonkey (Reply #24)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 06:35 PM

63. We don't do that in the US.

For better or for worse ...



-Laelth

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Response to Laelth (Reply #63)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 06:41 PM

64. There is a first for everything.

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Response to smirkymonkey (Reply #64)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 06:47 PM

65. It's really gruesome.

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Response to Laelth (Reply #65)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 08:01 PM

76. I know. I am evil.

I hate them. I am sorry that I am not a better person, but they are even more evil and they are destroying this nation and too many innocent people. They deserve a horrible fate.

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Response to Laelth (Original post)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:28 PM

25. I agree, never prison, but...

I can imagine a scenario where, in the spirit of peaceful transition, he works out a deal to step down when he loses the election, with a plane ready to immediately deliver him and his criminal family to the country of his choice that does not have an extradition agreement with the US, like Dubai. This way, he'd be safely out of reach for any criminal apprehension that would otherwise occur the moment he stepped out of the White House. Sadly, just to get rid of him and MAYBE avoid a full-scale civil war, we'd probably also have to agree to let him have all his ill-gotten money too so he could continue to live out his fantasy of being the faux king he always wanted to be. And God forbid a Pence presidential pardon for him and his family would be part of this deal.

I think something like this is the best we can hope for. Especially if there were a possibility that Putin would be relentless in hunting him and his family down with some Polonium tea or a fake heart attack as punishment for failing to get Putin's sanctions lifted and his gazillions returned to him and his oligarchs. A tortured life for his whole criminal family of always having to look over their shoulders in terror for Putin assassins, might be more satisfying to us than prison anyway.

This is my personal fantasy anyway!

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Response to RealityChik (Reply #25)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 06:57 PM

67. I'd be thrilled with that. n/t



-Laelth

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Response to Laelth (Original post)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:01 PM

28. A President should never be exempt from punishment

Despite the fact that no president has, that does not mean that they should never be prosecuted if they have committed a crime worthy of prison.
This president has used the power of his office to prevent investigations and even breaking more laws to impede the investigations. Investigations to crimes before he was president, while running and most certainly while president.
What Is the point of having laws, rules and regulations if they are not going to be enforced?

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Response to Under The Radar (Reply #28)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 06:59 PM

68. I agree. Trump sucks. You'll get no argument from me on that.

But he won't go to prison, and you can bank on it. The interests of the republic (including the peaceful transition of power) supersede the interests of justice.

-Laelth

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Response to Laelth (Reply #68)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 07:04 PM

69. Perhaps we make Robert DeNiro the next Attorney General

I’ll send in my support check for that immediately

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Response to Under The Radar (Reply #69)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 07:09 PM

71. LOL. Now THAT would be some justice! n/t



-Laelth

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Response to Laelth (Original post)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:57 PM

31. There are exceptions to every "rule."

I hope this is one of them.

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Response to Laelth (Original post)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 04:05 PM

34. I am of the mind if cowards

Cannot and will not remove him from office as their constitution duty requires, they have abdicated their responsibility and it therefore falls to "we the people" to come up with a remedy. And it won't be genteel.

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Response to Laelth (Original post)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 05:02 PM

44. While I don't disagree, I also think that a failure to prosecute a crime because of one's stature

Is antithetical to the rule of law.

We all claim to honor that notion, but tend to run away when the going gets tough.

If Trump dies with his so-called fortune intact and in the comfort of one of his mansions, we will have failed in our civic duty.

There is no mitigating this. He walks, we failed. Our constitution failed.

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Response to Laelth (Original post)


Response to democratisphere (Reply #54)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 07:08 PM

70. Presidents ARE above the law (to a certain extent). That's my point.

If Trump loses in November (which I think he will), the way to make him go away, and to peacefully surrender the reigns of power, is to grant him blanket immunity from criminal prosecution. That's what we have always done in the past, and I think it's what Joe Biden will offer to Trump when Joe wins in November. If Trump goes away peacefully, we will simply call it a victory and move forward.

-Laelth

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Response to Laelth (Reply #70)


Response to democratisphere (Reply #72)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 07:51 PM

73. You're not getting any argument from me on that.

But I want to see Trump and his whole criminal family go away. Granting Trump blanket immunity from criminal prosecution (if he agrees to leave office) is the best way to do it, imo.



-Laelth

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Response to Laelth (Original post)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 06:03 PM

57. Hopefully he'll die from COVID-19 before then.

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Response to Crunchy Frog (Reply #57)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 07:59 PM

74. Hope springs eternal. n/t



-Laelth

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Response to Laelth (Original post)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 06:28 PM

60. In this case

getting him out without a prison sentence will save lives. If he is prosecuted, he will want a civil war.

We are not talking about Nixon. This guy is seriously ill.

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Response to Turbineguy (Reply #60)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 08:15 PM

80. Just so, and that's my point. Thank you. n/t



-Laelth

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Response to Laelth (Original post)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 06:32 PM

62. People who think Trump will go to prison are delusional and out of touch with reality

We all want him to pay for his crimes, but it just doesn't work that way. We live in the REAL world where the bad guys win most of the time. It is unfortunate, but it is what it is. Laelth is 100% right on this

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Response to dustyscamp (Reply #62)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 08:00 PM

89. Just so, for better or for worse.

Thank you for the reply.

-Laelth

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Response to Laelth (Original post)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 08:00 PM

75. +1. Despise trump, but one Admin prosecuting another isn't a good idea generally.

Plus, while it would be nice to hassle him until death, it would be all but impossible to find a jury that wouldn’t hang for political crimes.

Now, his kids, enablers, etc., . . . . .

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Response to Laelth (Original post)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:54 PM

86. It wont happen but it should happen

No President ever has been as corrupt or as criminal as Trump not even Bush.

So a President can cheat to win an election and then cheat again to try and get reelected, but sense he obtained the Presidency he gets a free get out of jail card. What does that say about our Democracy I'm sorry, but sometimes it is better to set an example instead of clinging to some romantic notion of the Presidency. What if it comes to light that he raped someone? or even murdered someone? Sense he was President can't be touched and shouldn't be touched? Sorry I Can't stomach that in fact I would chose a hostile transition of power over that.

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