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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsFrench Chloroquine Researcher Manipulated Data
This article is rather extensive. It turns out, the French researcher whose work is most cited in support of chloroquine appears to have a long history of dodgy data....
https://forbetterscience.com/2020/03/26/chloroquine-genius-didier-raoult-to-save-the-world-from-covid-19/
The study was not randomised, ethically approved only after it already began, and it was not really controlled: the 16 control patients were treated in different clinics.
After some adjustments (patients removed, data points guessed), a preprint was published simultaneously with a paper in a peer reviewed journal Raoult basically controls. Next, a lawyer with whom Rault partnered with pitched the miracle cure to Fox News, which is the TV channel US president Donald Trump watches all day to get all his information.
...
In fact, the authors never showed the results of day 14 either. They also refused to share their secondary endpoint data, namely the clinical effectiveness of treatment on time to apyrexia, normalization of respiratory rate, and average length of hospital stay and mortality. Basically, it is none of anyones business to know if the therapy had any clinical benefit for the patients.
NRaleighLiberal
(60,433 posts)BumRushDaShow
(140,663 posts)Sunriser13
(612 posts)But to the topic, hopefully more ethical researchers will make the progress we need. I've been seeing some good info on isolating human antibodies that really shows hope.
BumRushDaShow
(140,663 posts)Sunriser13
(612 posts)That's why I was so excited to read it!
Edited to add:
Good news on the 206 antibodies scientists isolated from 8 COVID patients
BumRushDaShow
(140,663 posts)Thanks for that OP link. Had heard there was work going on with that but hadn't had chance to see where they were with it.
LisaL
(46,247 posts)superpatriotman
(6,511 posts)Doppelgängers
octoberlib
(14,971 posts)Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(114,311 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Ugh.
CottonBear
(21,613 posts)Great minds think alike! 😉
MontanaMama
(23,952 posts)I thought for sure it was the same quack that wrote the MFs good health letter.
csziggy
(34,189 posts)Plus he'd be a few years older.
pazzyanne
(6,594 posts)I made a connection but couldn't find the picture. Thanks for posting.
MerryBlooms
(11,885 posts)ZZenith
(4,301 posts)He's the one that makes ya feel alright
BumRushDaShow
(140,663 posts)ZZenith
(4,301 posts)SheltieLover
(59,234 posts)It takes a special brand of human garbage to manipulate health data - especially in a pandemic!
Stating the obvious, but no wonder maggot brain jumped on board to push for this "treatment."
BTW, isn't that practicing medicine without a license? Impeachable?
Response to jberryhill (Original post)
rampartc This message was self-deleted by its author.
Mike 03
(16,616 posts)What a wild goose chase and a waste of time, and terrible for the Lupus patients who actually needed that medicine.
From Wednesday:
Malaria Drug Chloroquine No Better Than Regular Coronavirus Care, Study Finds
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-25/hydroxychloroquine-no-better-than-regular-covid-19-care-in-study
pazzyanne
(6,594 posts)That is exactly why tRump jumped on board. He always manages to go to the stupid side of anything science and experts say. It is his one real talent.
lamp_shade
(15,073 posts)My trumper BIL posted the french study that had trump claiming that he had seen things that are impressive.
I also countered his post with this FactCheck article:
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/trump-hypes-potential-covid-19-drugs-but-evidence-so-far-is-slim/?fbclid=IwAR1JgYn3Hp_ulEWQHPz0aOR5AdIFfXRrNd_zb7klHSdBonoqNUBqxNauvYk
magicarpet
(16,140 posts)Maybe have him clean toilets at the male freshman college dorms of the local university. Where the students drink and get drunk every night then throw up every morning.
Make those bathroom twinkle. That is the closest he should be to a biology lab.
hlthe2b
(105,866 posts)in the French study. Further, the number of times HCQ and Chloroquine have been touted as a potential magic bullet in numerous emerging viral diseases--always to be discounted dramatically. Not to mention the not-inconsequential toxicity potential and the need for use in the indications where it actually has been proven (Lupus, Malaria and a couple of others). I have no problem with the appropriate study, but the way it is being handled is the worst-case scenario. By the time NY's valid hospital-based studies are completed, no matter the outcome, the drug will have been so misused and hoarded, that even a positive study findings may be for naught.
FOX is a public menace and should be dismantled--along with all the other CT-spreading (mainly RW) media.
moonscape
(5,278 posts)posted (posted from the media here yesterday), was heartbreaking. They were no longer allowing/filling prescriptions for it for her though she had been on it for years and thanked her for her sacrifice.
Horrific.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)But....
We don't have time to do double blinded studies with multiple endpoints. We are in a crisis, and a drug that has shown in-vitro inhibition, as well as some effectiveness for SARs abd MERs was used. It is a reasonable hunch, and actually might show some benefit in some people. It might also be shit and do nothing. We'll see what comes out of New York.
I work with stats people who will make these criticisms. This is a preliminary study for a drug that has some rationale to believe it might work.
I am against dragging this guys name through the mud. It is nit his fault Trump went Trump on it.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)This is not about rushing or not dotting Is.
This is about photoshopping PCR gels.
This is ACTIVE FRAUD not sloppy work.
Raster
(20,999 posts)Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)That is not the criticism here. Have you ever done PCR?
Furthermore, if you look at the data from PCR tests, about 40% appear to be false negative.
Everything is rushed and shitty right now. There is reason to believe the drug may have a theraputic effect. It is wirth trying. It WAS used for SARs and appearex to have some benefit
Furthermore, if you look at the anti-virals, their data looks pretty shitty too.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)He used photoshopped gels and other dodgy data in previous studies, but on alternate Wednesdays he does solid work. Got it.
muriel_volestrangler
(102,337 posts)gab13by13
(24,588 posts)Raster
(20,999 posts)...just sayin'.
muriel_volestrangler
(102,337 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(50,668 posts)C_U_L8R
(45,559 posts)Yeah, nice touch there
Docreed2003
(17,650 posts)If you look at their exclusion data in the study, it's the definition of "cherry picking data". It wasn't controlled, it wasn't randomized, it was a small study cohort, and their exclusion criteria was ridiculous, for example excluding patients who decompensated or died.
dalton99a
(83,912 posts)bucolic_frolic
(46,512 posts)Aquaria
(1,076 posts)Because eventually, the fraudsters always get revealed.
There was already plenty that didnt add up about the initial reportlow sample size, no double-blind testing and panic conditions, for instance.
Now this manipulation of data to fit his premise, rather than following where the science led.
Waiting for the news that he had some kind of scheme brewing with a pharmaceutical company to gouge us all.
malaise
(277,353 posts)and plagiarism experts
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)A professor wanted to run an analysis that was WRONG. I pointed it out seversl times, but he would not back down. I ran the tests he ordered. He published the data. I dont think the man was trying to be deceptive, just too stubborn to consider he might be wrong.
malaise
(277,353 posts)I've seen some unbelievable stuff in my career. We generally show way too much respect for people with titles. Life has taught me that there are charlatans are everywhere. And even distinguished professionals sometimes sell out.
NightWatcher
(39,353 posts)I was able to secure one refill Monday, but there's none left in stock.
Raster
(20,999 posts)Phoenix61
(17,498 posts)Granny was doctoring everyone with her homemade tonic because they had all come down with a hellish cold. She had Mr Drysdale convinced her tonic would cure the common cold. Hed set up a meeting with a big time doctor to promote it. Everyone is there and Jeb says, Yep, Grannys cure works every time! You start taking it and 7-10 days later youre cured!
duforsure
(11,885 posts)Showing how trump promoted something like this without knowing anything else except they. Promoted it on Fox News. It shows how careless trump is. He promotes lies without caring about the consequences, which as long as the Senate is controlled by Moscow Mitch he won't have any. Imagine that, a sitting president promoting lies knowing it could harm Americans.
dalton99a
(83,912 posts)Crowman2009
(2,765 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)What the actual hell?
Also, he looks like Trump's personal "physician".
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)MyNameGoesHere
(7,638 posts)ET Awful
(24,772 posts)not_the_one
(2,227 posts)We aren't all whackadoodles.
They DO, however, make the rest of us look bad (professionally speaking, of course). Physically, some of us can pull it off quite well, thank you. (I'm letting my grey hair grow again, for about the 5th time. It is now half way down my back. At it's longest, AND when I was still a brunette, it was to my waist. I seem to have a lot less of it now, though... )
So let's not paint with that super broad brush, please.
Still, WHAT A COUPLE OF LOSERS!!! But that is what the turd is depending on, that he can get marginal people desperate to still be relevant in some way, to prop up his rightwing fantasies.
But think about it. The turd is not smart enough to come up with this particular drug theory himself. He was fed it. By Miller or Bannon, probably. Too bad he is killing people with it...
RobinA
(10,109 posts)doctors? I can appreciate an old hippie for a lot of things, but doctoring is a big part emotional and I want my doctor looking shipshape.
paleotn
(18,994 posts)And the focus on reproducible results. It helps highlight the bad actors so they're relegated to the ranks of the cranks.
There's so much dodginess, a cottage industry has developed with the sole purpose of refuting other people's findings.
pazzyanne
(6,594 posts)Seems to me, if I remember rightly, he looks an awful lot like tRump's original White House doctor.