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LAS14

(13,783 posts)
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 09:54 AM Mar 2020

Two thoughts from an epidemiologist.

I got this in e-mail from a friend who is a friend of an epidemiologist. Underlining is mine.

Excellent and enlightening piece of writing by a Yale Epidemiologist
Much
of what this writer Jonathan Smith says aligns with what Alan Kilian has been telling us. — Hey everybody, as an infectious disease epidemiologist (although a lowly one), at this point feel morally obligated to provide some information on what we are seeing
from a transmission dynamic perspective and how they apply to the social distancing measures.

Like any good scientist I have noticed two things that are either not articulated or not present in the "literature" of social media. I am also tagging my much smarter infectious disease epidemiologist friends for peer review of this post. Please correct me if I am wrong (seriously). Specifically, I want to make two aspects of these measures very clear and unambiguous. First, we are in the very infancy of this epidemic'strajectory. That means even with these measures we will see cases and deaths continue to rise globally, nationally, and in our own communities in the coming weeks. Our hospitals will be overwhelmed, and people will die that didn't have to.

This may lead some people to think that the social distancing measures are not working. They are. They may feel futile. They aren't. You will feel discouraged. You should. This is normal in chaos. But this is also normal epidemic trajectory. Stay calm. This enemy that we are facing is very good at what it does; we are not failing. We need everyone to hold the line as the epidemic inevitably gets worse.

This is not my opinion; this is the unforgiving math of epidemics for which I and my colleagues have dedicated our lives to understanding with great nuance, and this disease is no exception. We know what will happen; I want to help the community brace for this impact. Stay strong and with solidarity knowing with absolute certainty that what you are doing is saving lives, even as people begin getting sick and dying. You may feel like giving in. Don't.

Second, although social distancing measures have been (at least temporarily) well-received, there is an obvious-but-overlooked phenomenon when considering groups (i.e. families) in transmission dynamics. While social distancing decreases contact with members of society, it of course increases your contacts with group (i.e. family) members. This small and obvious fact has surprisingly profound implications on disease transmission dynamics. Study after study demonstrates that even if there is only a little bit of connection between groups (i.e. social dinners, playdates/playgrounds, etc.), the epidemic trajectory isn't much different than if there was no measure in place. The same underlying fundamentals of disease transmission apply, and the result is that the community is left with all of the social and economic disruption but very little public health benefit. You should perceive your entire family to function as a single individual unit; if one person puts themselves at risk, everyone in the unit is at risk.

Seemingly small social chains get large and complex with alarming speed. If your son visits his girlfriend, and you later sneak over for coffee with a neighbor, your neighbor is now connected to the infected office worker that your son's girlfriend's mother shook hands with. This sounds silly, it's not. This is not a joke or a hypothetical. We as epidemiologists see it borne out in the data time and time again and no one listens. Conversely, any break in that chain breaks disease transmission along that chain. In contrast to hand-washing and other personal measures, social distancing measures are not about individuals, they are about societies working in unison. These measures also take a long time to see the results.

It is hard (even for me) to conceptualize how 'one quick little get together' can undermine the entire framework of a public health intervention, but it does. I promise you it does. I promise. I promise. I promise. You can't cheat it. People are already itching
to cheat on the social distancing precautions just a "little"- a playdate, a haircut, or picking up a needless item at the store, etc. From a transmission dynamics standpoint, this very quickly recreates a highly connected social network that undermines all
of the work the community has done so far. Until we get a viable vaccine this unprecedented outbreak will not be overcome in grand, sweeping gesture, rather only by the collection of individual choices our community makes in the coming months.

This virus is unforgiving to unwise choices. My goal in writing this is to prevent communities from getting 'sucker-punched' by what the epidemiological community knows will happen in the coming weeks. It will be easy to be drawn to the idea that what we are doing isn't working and become paralyzed by fear, or to 'cheat' a little bit in the coming weeks. By knowing what to expect, and knowing the importance of maintaining these measures, my hope is to encourage continued community spirit, strategizing, and action to persevere in this time of uncertainty. —

43 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Two thoughts from an epidemiologist. (Original Post) LAS14 Mar 2020 OP
Reminds of the sex ed talks I would Phoenix61 Mar 2020 #1
I teach Health in high school now. WinstonSmith4740 Mar 2020 #23
Thanks for sharing this. Mike 03 Mar 2020 #2
Some gun nut is bound to go stir crazy here soon... magicarpet Mar 2020 #5
One tried to blow up a hospital with a car bomb last week & died in shootout with agents at pickup. Bernardo de La Paz Mar 2020 #33
Fasten your seatbelt and a fix you crash helmet,.. magicarpet Mar 2020 #34
Could you put in some paragraph breaks to make this easier to read? Thanks. nt tblue37 Mar 2020 #3
You can cut and paste and do your own, nt USALiberal Mar 2020 #6
Not easy on a small tablet or a cellphone. nt tblue37 Mar 2020 #9
Done. LAS14 Mar 2020 #7
Thanks. nt tblue37 Mar 2020 #8
Nice info,.. thank you very much for sharing with us. magicarpet Mar 2020 #4
Excellent. Baitball Blogger Mar 2020 #10
:-) LAS14 Mar 2020 #11
Its a much better word than strategery! sdfernando Mar 2020 #31
:-) again! nt LAS14 Mar 2020 #40
k&r for exposure. n/t Laelth Mar 2020 #12
K&R, putting well people with sick people gets more sick people. We need nationwide testing uponit7771 Mar 2020 #13
Probably the best I've read about this so far. Arthur_Frain Mar 2020 #14
Agreed! It's truly a "must read" for all our sakes. n/t MFGsunny Mar 2020 #28
Sending this to a number of friends and family who believe they're behaving safely already flibbitygiblets Mar 2020 #15
Us too leighbythesea2 Mar 2020 #41
Thanks for being so diligent! flibbitygiblets Mar 2020 #42
All good points. Many have suggested that everyone (especially willful doubters) should be forced... FailureToCommunicate Mar 2020 #16
Thank you. We all need frequent reminders and just as importantly... KY_EnviroGuy Mar 2020 #17
"We need everyone to hold the line as the epidemic inevitably gets worse" -- Well, duh. rocktivity Mar 2020 #18
The MAIL and PACKAGES coming through your front door. It's a leak in the hopefully clean environment usaf-vet Mar 2020 #19
Put all your bills on electronic payment Nasruddin Mar 2020 #24
What I've been saying all along, although far less eloquently..Lots of Laura PourMeADrink Mar 2020 #20
social distancing will only work if there is a steady supply of food & other items necessary to yaesu Mar 2020 #21
Work? Nasruddin Mar 2020 #26
I order my groceries online, Walmart curbside pickup Sugarcoated Mar 2020 #27
These 2 paragraphs are great...Thank You for Posting Them: Stuart G Mar 2020 #22
Thanks so much for posting this! WinstonSmith4740 Mar 2020 #25
Kick & recommend. bronxiteforever Mar 2020 #29
I tried to explain that to a cousin yesterday... Historic NY Mar 2020 #30
really good...clear, concise and easy to understand for laypeople... dhill926 Mar 2020 #32
Absolutely spot-on, VITAL information. BobTheSubgenius Mar 2020 #35
KnR Hekate Mar 2020 #36
By the numbers... infullview Mar 2020 #37
Thanks for this! smirkymonkey Mar 2020 #38
Doomed. SammyWinstonJack Mar 2020 #39
Great post. Honest but calm. lindysalsagal Mar 2020 #43

Phoenix61

(17,003 posts)
1. Reminds of the sex ed talks I would
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 10:00 AM
Mar 2020

give to teenagers. “You are sleeping with every person that person already slept with.” The looks on their faces was always priceless.

WinstonSmith4740

(3,056 posts)
23. I teach Health in high school now.
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 11:42 AM
Mar 2020

And yes, that is a fun "A-ha" moment! Almost as good as the look of fear when I tell them that, yes...you absolutely can get pregnant the first time you have sex.

Mike 03

(16,616 posts)
2. Thanks for sharing this.
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 10:02 AM
Mar 2020

There was an article this morning that this is what's beginning to happen in Italy, where people are fed up and believe the restrictions are futile, and it's beginning to lead to incidents of social unrest.

We have to stay strong and focused on the goal.

magicarpet

(14,150 posts)
34. Fasten your seatbelt and a fix you crash helmet,..
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 12:36 PM
Mar 2020

I think it is going to get real crazy before this is over and run its course.

Baitball Blogger

(46,705 posts)
10. Excellent.
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 10:20 AM
Mar 2020

BTW, you may have inadvertently invented a new word: "strajectory" A strategic path or route.

Arthur_Frain

(1,849 posts)
14. Probably the best I've read about this so far.
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 10:53 AM
Mar 2020

Concise. Not purposely alarmist. Lots of facts and eye opening “quit yer bullshit” jawbreakers. This is the one that go viral, thank you.

flibbitygiblets

(7,220 posts)
15. Sending this to a number of friends and family who believe they're behaving safely already
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 11:21 AM
Mar 2020

The one about going to the store for needless items hit home. So many people seem not to understand that every interaction with the public puts entire households at risk, which negates the benefits of social distancing in the first place.

We are NOT doing this at my house. The only things coming in are being delivered contact-free. And even then, we're aware that humans stocked the shelves, packed the bags/boxes, and delivered the packages and mail. Which is why those items either go into a "quarantine area" for a few days if shelf-stable (time varies depending on the material), otherwise disinfected or washed.

leighbythesea2

(1,200 posts)
41. Us too
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 01:42 PM
Mar 2020

And disinfecting every package takes time. Puts in perspective what you really need & how exhausting being fastidious is.
That was bulk groceries. Hoping im set for 4 weeks again.
Started voluntarily shelter in place march 1 because of my mother. By april 30, it will feel long for us but i dont care one bit. Stay the course!

FailureToCommunicate

(14,014 posts)
16. All good points. Many have suggested that everyone (especially willful doubters) should be forced...
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 11:21 AM
Mar 2020

to watch "Contagion" (made in 2009, with several big name stars, and a killer soundtrack)

Better than any other film I know of, it shows the ease with which virus spreads from things, to surfaces, to persons, to persons, to whole communities. The scene(s) with the daughter and her boyfriend really hit that home. It's not quite like this pandemic (it was referencing a far swifter virus)

Virus don't care.
Virus don't play by the rules.
Virus don't care who you love, or how "careful" you are.
Virus don't f-ing care.

KY_EnviroGuy

(14,490 posts)
17. Thank you. We all need frequent reminders and just as importantly...
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 11:22 AM
Mar 2020

we must spread those reminders within our isolation groups. Post-it notes should be selling better that toilet paper, LOL.

With Covid-19, complacency and carelessness kills.

rocktivity

(44,576 posts)
18. "We need everyone to hold the line as the epidemic inevitably gets worse" -- Well, duh.
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 11:24 AM
Mar 2020

Last edited Tue Aug 16, 2022, 01:17 PM - Edit history (28)

In the absence of a vaccine, an antidote, mass testing, and a more robust healthcare infrastructure, there's not much left to do except "hunker down" and "ride out" the "inevitably worse." The real issue is that "the line" we're trying to hold against the virus should have been drawn four months ago when border closing, comprehensive testing, professional-grade masking, contact tracing, and actual quarantining could have combined to "flatten the curve." I think that's why people have started "rebelling" against social distancing -- not out of boredom, ignorance, or defiance, but from subliminally realizing that curve flattening was a fantasy, and that staying home now does too little, too late.



This could have happened in the U.S. -- but it can't now because U.S. leadership didn't see the smoke on the horizon and/or pull the alarm in time.


rocktivity

usaf-vet

(6,186 posts)
19. The MAIL and PACKAGES coming through your front door. It's a leak in the hopefully clean environment
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 11:32 AM
Mar 2020

...inside. You can't ignore it all. For example, medical supplies are often mailed to you.

Has anyone addressed the impact of direct sunlight on, for example, a bill in a white business envelope?

How about UV light?

The bills still have to be paid.

Nasruddin

(754 posts)
24. Put all your bills on electronic payment
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 11:44 AM
Mar 2020

ALL of them.

Some of them are difficult but it's a lot less work in the long run, & less paper garbage in the house.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
20. What I've been saying all along, although far less eloquently..Lots of
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 11:36 AM
Mar 2020

Seemingly bright people are thinking and acting like just because they know and love someone they are safe.

yaesu

(8,020 posts)
21. social distancing will only work if there is a steady supply of food & other items necessary to
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 11:37 AM
Mar 2020

sustain civilized life & that people are able to obtain these items. Really, people must not leave their house for any reason in this is going to work. There isn't any way to get deliveries in most areas so people must go out, mingle. I went out today for food, first trip in 2 weeks, places were just as busy as any normal day the only difference is most things I needed to bake weren't available & mainly just junk type food was plentiful. I went to 3 stores, I will be living off the most unhealthy food in my life once my meat & frozen veg stash is gone.

Nasruddin

(754 posts)
26. Work?
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 11:48 AM
Mar 2020

It depends on what you mean by "work".
If you wanted to kill the epidemic by starving the virus of hosts completely, you are right.

I don't think that's what we are doing. We are going to reduce the peak impact of the virus so the medical system and other systems can hold up. We do that by getting off the exponential growth and getting into a linear growth of cases. That is bad, but less bad than a civilization ending catastrophe.

Sugarcoated

(7,724 posts)
27. I order my groceries online, Walmart curbside pickup
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 11:56 AM
Mar 2020

go to the store, worker puts them in the cab of our truck. I carefully disinfect everything with clorox wipes, I have a system to not cross contaminate. I also wear an N95 mask.

Stuart G

(38,421 posts)
22. These 2 paragraphs are great...Thank You for Posting Them:
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 11:40 AM
Mar 2020

..This may lead some people to think that the social distancing measures are not working. They are. They may feel futile. They aren't. You will feel discouraged. You should. This is normal in chaos. But this is also normal epidemic trajectory. Stay calm. This enemy that we are facing is very good at what it does; we are not failing. We need everyone to hold the line as the epidemic inevitably gets worse.

...This is not my opinion; this is the unforgiving math of epidemics for which I and my colleagues have dedicated our lives to understanding with great nuance, and this disease is no exception. We know what will happen; I want to help the community brace for this impact. Stay strong and with solidarity knowing with absolute certainty that what you are doing is saving lives, even as people begin getting sick and dying. You may feel like giving in. Don't.

WinstonSmith4740

(3,056 posts)
25. Thanks so much for posting this!
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 11:46 AM
Mar 2020

I teach Health in high school, and we're doing it all with Google classrooms right now. Do you mind if I send this to them? It is reassuring without pulling punches.

Historic NY

(37,449 posts)
30. I tried to explain that to a cousin yesterday...
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 12:00 PM
Mar 2020

I said do you have a mask, nope. But your going out to physical therapy, yes. Is anyone wearing masks there no. Wait no mask, and you don't have one. What part of this virus don't you understand? She says she is the last patient, oh great I tell her. Oh but they clean, really how do you know. She says they wipe down the equipment and they do a deep clean. How do you know? A thousand questions and she oblivious. What part of social distancing don't you understand. I realize she has been cooped up since Dec after surgery and a injury, she doesn't get it. She goes out shopping now its her hobby, after telling me she has a freezer full of stuff. Apparently listening to the news hasn't sunk in.

BobTheSubgenius

(11,563 posts)
35. Absolutely spot-on, VITAL information.
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 12:37 PM
Mar 2020

A very close friend of mine was quite miffed when her husband put his foot down and said, in no uncertain terms, that they would NOT be doing even a small gathering for her sister's birthday.

I couldn't believe that someone that aware (usually) and sensible (often) would even dream of going along with that plan, especially since she has been suffering and asthma flare-up lately.

infullview

(981 posts)
37. By the numbers...
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 12:58 PM
Mar 2020

Let's say optimistically that only about 40% of the US population of 328 million gets exposed to the virus, and that the average death rate for the combined demographic is 1.7%, that's more like 2.2 million dead. This assumes that no vaccine is available for the next 12 months. Who's coming up with these numbers? 100,000 sounds way too optimistic.

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