I don't know about you but I'm glad it's FINALLY safe to BASH UNIONS on DU!!!!

[devilgrrl]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by REP (a host of the General Discussion forum).

What took so long???

It's about time that the left came around!








Unbelievable the shit that flies here these days.

[fascisthunter]

1. in a way, it's always good to know who is on your side

and who is a poser.

[backscatter712]

2. It's too bad we still get posts hidden for telling the scabs what we really think about them... n/t

[Scootaloo]

8. Funny thing about DU...

It's okay to post anti-progressive, anti-left, anti-democratic stuff...

But it's not okay to point it out when people do that.

[laundry_queen]

17. +++ nt

[tama]

3. When it's safe and cool

at Party Convention, why not on DU?

http://occupywallst.org/forum/teacher-bashing-at-the-democratic-convention-by-th/
http://labornotes.org/2012/09/chicago-teachers-head-toward-strike-democrats-turn-their-union

[lunatica]

4. Ignorance and hate spread everywhere.

[Oilwellian]

5. There are so many Republicans that have jumped ship, and...

their conservative ideals have infected the Democratic party. We too will implode, just as we're witnessing the Republicans imploding today, if we continue embracing their conservative ideals.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. Not quite

One possible outcome is the emergence of a party on the Left, while Dems go back to the 1850s. It was not always the party of labor. Ironically the party of Lincoln was.

Nothing is static, as much as peope seem to believe that.

[piratefish08]

6. i thought bashing unions was a line in the sand Dems didn't cross.

I guess we mostly still support them, almost sometimes.... I guess.


times have changed.



do we still 'mostly' support women's choice too, or is this gong to be up for deliberation soon?

[KoKo]

18. sadly...as you say..."Times have Changed" ...if you are a Dem..Forget the Past

and "LEAN FORWARD!"
but not DEFEATED.....We will Live to Fight Another Day...in Other Ways!

[msongs]

7. race to the top ya know nt

[DeSwiss]

9. K&R

[Drahthaardogs]

10. I remember when being a Democrat meant you were a UNION man. Sad, sad, oh so sad.

I am a proud LABOR Democrat.

[bvar22]

11. DURec.

I will walk this line.
In the old days, there were a few DUers who blamed UNIONS for our problems.
Now there are many.

...not a good direction to be moving.
We already have one party that does this... The Republican Party.
We don't need another one.

Solidarity!

Free Trade is NOT "Free".
It costs good Working Class Jobs,

[liberalhistorian]

38. Anyone who does so should then cheerfully

give up the 8-hour day, lunch breaks and 15-minute rest breaks, vacation and sick days, having weekends off, much safer working conditions and OSHA, which cuts down dramatically on the number of workplace deaths, being able to get retirement and insurance benefits, etc., etc., etc., etc. You know, the little things that people BLED and were MURDERED or HANGED for in the fight for them. Anyone who is against unions should then not accept any of these benefits in their own job.

I have no time or sympathy for union bashers, especially when it comes to education unions. My grandfather began his lifelong career at Ford in the 30's, when these battles were still being raged, and he was a proud liberal and union man (he even had black friends at a time when blacks weren't even permitted in his area. Oh, they were legally permitted, all right, but that didn't stop people from making it impossible for them to live and work there). My parents began their teaching careers before education unions and well remember the horrendous pay and conditions teachers had, with very few, if any, rights. Anyone who's against unions needs to be a teacher for a month or so, with no outside assistance. Period.

[cr8tvlde]

12. Well, I guess it's high time for us to reclaim our history

... and point out the errors of their ways. It's not up to the Mods entirely. Get with the program or go start RU. LOL

[MADem]

27. There are no mods here. nt

[Scuba]

13. Having never belonged to a Union in my life, I don't see how we can ...

... not embrace Unions as the glue that hold working America together. To dis Unions here on DU should be taboo.

Unions are the financial might of the People. Until we have publicly funded elections, Unions are a necessity!

[KoKo]

20. Good Point you make.....What else do we have for some kind of solidarity?

We Dems are being fractured, bought and sold and bombarded with Third Way/Repug Leaning, Talking Points and many of our candidates are owned by Corporations...

It's definitely time for a STRIKE BACK to CHANGE all this.

[Nye Bevan]

14. AND it's safe to bash DEMOCRATIC MAYORS!!!! (nt)

[abumbyanyothername]

32. If only that particular mayor were never a democrat.

He is despicable.

[YoungDemCA]

39. +1

By many accounts, he is a real...jerk, bullying and insulting people, yelling sexist shit at women who have the misfortune of dealing with him, to say nothing of his revolting policy positions.

[madrchsod]

15. that`s why several left here....

[randome]

16. Fine. I'll play. Who is bashing unions?

All I've seen is opinions that the Chicago strike may not be worth supporting. Is that what you characterize as 'bashing'?

[KoKo]

19. What have you seen that says the "Chicago Strike" is not worth supporting?

Can you share? So that you represent the anti-Dem side of supporting this strike?

[randome]

23. Your 'anti-Dem' characterization reveals you are not objective.

I started on the union side of the other thread by saying absent evidence to the contrary, I supported the union.

But the vociferous, vehement anti-Democratic opinions expressed certainly doesn't make that position easy to uphold.

To answer your question, one of the things that is troubling is Karen Lewis wanting a 29% increase in pay.

It is DUers who want to disparage other DUers for holding different opinions who take the 'democratic' out of 'Democratic Underground'.

[Zorra]

30. Actually, most of the time we are working at taking the "republican" out of Democratic Underground.

Objectively speaking.

Ain't that right, KoKo?

[KoKo]

34. Yes...quite...there is definitely that to think about......

most definitely!

[hay rick]

31. What's your source on the 29%?

CNN report here: http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/11/us/illinois-chicago-teachers-strike/index.html

From the article: "However, the union said the two sides are close to a pay agreement after school officials offered to increase salaries by an average of 16% over four years."

[randome]

33. This.

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/06/08/teachers-already-crying-foul-as-strike-authorization-vote-wraps-up/

If it's wrong, so be it. But the attitude of DUers who claim that 'you're either with us or against us' sure as hell drives people away from what they want to promote.

This is a discussion forum. Not an echo chamber.

AND AGAIN: How is this 'union bashing' if one wants to keep an open mind?

On edit: I also hear that part of the strike concerns the lack of air conditioning in some classrooms. That is most definitely worthy of a strike.

Now does that make me a union basher or someone with critical thinking skills? Or something else?

[boppers]

37. Lack of toilet paper in bathrooms, lack of AC, lack of books...

I know I'd be willing to take a 10% pay cut to cut functional AC, but I don't expect that to happen.

It's easy to see where spin comes out on the issue, anyways:
1. Does the piece focus on the 16% raise over four years, with an average salary already at $71,000 a year?*
2. Does the piece focus on class sizes, teacher "evaluations", school conditions?*



*http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-teacher-strike-expected-to-go-into-2nd-day-20120910,0,4057997.story

[randome]

42. Any reporting on this can be spun, no doubt about it.

All I get are bits and pieces from DU and TPM. But I think it's ALWAYS important to remain objective, ESPECIALLY with your friends and allies.

If you aren't willing to be objective with friends and allies, do you expect their enemies to do so?

[randome]

25. And you didn't answer the question I posed to devilgrrl.

What does she consider 'union bashing'?

[YoungDemCA]

40. "may not be worth supporting"

Code for: We must be ready to put party above principle.

[randome]

41. Hell, no.

If something is worth standing up for, the time to stand up for it is always NOW.

I do not support Karen Lewis wanting a 29% pay increase. I do support air conditioning in all Chicago schools.

I'm not playing politics here. I'm just looking for the truth.

[nanabugg]

21. Not everyone here is NOT a troll! nt

[hay rick]

24. I had my first post hidden today.

Seems I was insufficiently civil to someone spouting rw anti-union talking points. The post I responded to here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021318876#post80

I feel so much better now.

[Teamster Jeff]

29. Nicely done lol

[KoKo]

35. It's still important to speak out...no matter, even if our Dems, smack you back..

so good for you. Unless you put something in there that went against the "prevailing" Community Standards that are now sacrosanct on DU....you deserve a:

[Skittles]

26. the right has successfully demonized unions

to the point that even so-called progressives will join in on the bashing

[YellowRubberDuckie]

28. Seriously?

God, this place is going to the dogs. What the hell?

[KoKo]

36. Remember...it's a NEW WORLD...."LEAN FORWARD!"

That's the new Motto along with "FOREWARD" (which means forget the Past...because "we write the new future&quot Who is the "WE?" the "PTB" of course.

[REP]

43. Locking

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