So all the cruise ship companies didn't want to pay US taxes

[redstateblues]

and they based their operations in the Bahamas, Liberia and other low tax countries and now they want us to let them disembark in the in the US. What were the people that got on those boats in the last couple months thinking to begin with? In addition, the Cruise Lines want some of the stimulus money? WTF?

[Sherman A1]

1. F 'em

Anyone who got on a cruise ship these last few weeks should certainly be tested for Covid 19 and then have their heads examined. I have zero sympathy for any of them.

[SoCalNative]

5. The cruise lines were not offering refunds

or the ability to change a booking early on. Could you afford to lose several thousand dollars?

[dware]

7. Can you afford to lose your life?

The risks have been known for weeks now, yet they decided to take a cruise anyways.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

[Yavin4]

8. Look up the term, "Sunk Cost"

Your health is not worth the cost of a ticket.

[Sherman A1]

10. Can people afford to lose their lives?

or be stuck onboard for an extended period which was happening and apparently will continue to do so.

Sometimes you cut your losses and take it in the pocketbook.

[SoCalNative]

17. And sometimes

you do what you gotta do.

[Dream Girl]

28. They took a chance and lost

[Dream Girl]

31. No excuse.

[pnwest]

39. that money was already spent, not "lost". They'll lose the memories and the fun, but that money

is already gone. They lose nothing material by staying home.

[Demonaut]

11. nice thought toward fellow humans

[Sherman A1]

13. They can go to the country where the ships are registered and flags that are flown.

These ships sailed and passengers boarded having seen the news and knowing that ships were stuck at sea or under quarantine in other parts of the world. They made choices just as the Spring Break kiddies did. Are we to fix stupid along with dealing with a pandemic?

[Demonaut]

16. you know that's impossible, the bahamas can't handle that load of sick people

get a fucking heart, there are kids on that boat

posts like this make me sick

[demmiblue]

19. +1

[Sherman A1]

21. I have plenty of heart

These folks made choices unlike the medical community, the service industry and grocery store workers who got tossed into this through no fault of their own.

And speaking of things that make me sick. We don't need to fix stupid in the middle of a pandemic where resources are stretched beyond breaking and most folks are doing the best they can to comply with the needs of society by doing what they can to mitigate the impact of this outbreak. As Florida becomes overwhelmed by their own mismanagement and add in the cruise ships dumping more people into the mix or back to their own states. Who should receive that last available ventilator? Someone who did the best they could to self isolate or someone who had a great time on a cruise ship when they knew very well what was going on?

[Demonaut]

22. you can't defend your remarks, reminds me of shades of orange

[Dream Girl]

30. I have to agree with them...very foolish to go on a cruise at a time like this

[Bev54]

32. You don't have a heart

Friends of mine were on one of those ships in South America and had been on since early February, supposed to get off in Chile and they had made arrangements to fly home from there, but by then they would not let them off. They did not know for sure where they would go and how they would get off and we have been in able to keep intermittent contact since Mar 10th. Their ship finally got through the Panama Canal on Mar 26th and they were able to get off in Miami on the 30th, because they had no cases on the ship. Got a message they were able to get a flight home and landed at our home airport at 10:30 last night. They were fortunate to be on a ship with no documented cases and were able to get off. Have a little compassion, I would hope people would be looking to help those in need not turn their backs on them. Your lack of compassion for people is astounding. They are not stupid or dumb just unfortunate to be travelling when the world shuts down. There are other people that were on treks that had no idea what was going on and find themselves in strange countries with no way of getting home.

[Sherman A1]

57. Do you?

Have a heart for those folks that will have to deal with the consequences of these folks poor decisions?

[Bev54]

66. These folks?

They may well have gotten sick if they did not go. This is beyond a ridiculous argument. I hope for your sake you do not get it but if you do, remember how you want to treat others.

[Sherman A1]

67. They very well may have gotten sick if they didn't go

but getting on a petri dish of a cruise ship when the news of a quarantined ship in the Far East and the pandemic spreading is not an example of good judgement. So you are indicating that the people who did the right thing for themselves, their families should be penalized?

The cruise ship industry goes out of it's way to avoid US regulations and US taxes by flying flags of convenience so let them utilize the services of the nations that is so convenient.

and rather than argue with me on a internet forum I would seriously suggest that you put me on ignore. My mind will not be changed and I suspect that yours will not either.

Good Day.

[Bev54]

65. I agree

The kids may well suffer their own payback for doing what they did, these people did nothing wrong, there was no border shut downs or recommendations when they left and the way things are going, likely wouldn't have been any better off if they did not go. I get worried when a so called dem acts like this, it is a republican trait.

[Ms. Toad]

69. My friend on the Zaandam is 68.

I don't know that this was a vacation of a lifetime - but she certainly left the country before the issues with cruise ships were well known. That left her in a country where she didn't know the language, expecting to take the cruise to the place where she had reservations to fly home from.

While I expected governments (like NOLA) to have been planning for this since early February (at the latest), I don't apply the same standards for foresight to individuals. I was fighting with people the day before our university shut down - the same day my friend boarded the Zaandam - about the need for us to just mention to our students that there is this disease out there that they ought to be taking precautions to prevent getting COVID 19. I lost that battle - because they all thought it was silly. The people I was arguing with had - by and large - at least one degree beyond a college degree.

[Bev54]

73. None of this was known

at the time my friends left on a 3 month vacation, of which the cruise was only a part of, but some of the people on this site just do not care. I am pretty sure those that are bitching about others on vacation were not exercising social distancing at the end of January or beginning of Feb either but oh these dumb people! My friends were lucky and got home but I am sick for those who are still stuck on ships. My friends were to disembark on Mar 10th in Chile and while this was just the first part of their trip, their daughter had secured a flight home from Chile and when they could not get off, arrangements kept having to be changed. So they got off 2 days ago. It is unbelievable that people are so smug and cruel in their thoughts of others and what are they going to expect if they come down with the virus? I truly wish the best for your friend and cannot even imagine what she must be feeling right now.

[Ms. Toad]

76. The cruise was the last leg of a similar vacation.

Not sure how long - but she boarded the cruise in south america after spending time there, before heading home via the cruise (also, incidentally via Chile).

[Bev54]

78. Yes

My friends were on their first leg of their long vacation

[Squinch]

23. This virus is going to necessitate a lot of decisions like this large and small.

The bahamas can't handle it, but really, who can? It is the same question of resources: who gets the ventilator? Who gets the PPE?

There just isn't enough to go around.

It isn't about heart. There just isn't enough. There is NO REASON why there isn't enough other than incompetence, but the fact is that there isn't enough.

[Demonaut]

24. they can go to a naval base

[Squinch]

26. Which has no PPE or ventilators and not enough medical personnel to handle them?

[Demonaut]

34. and you know this because?, we trained for biological warfare

[Squinch]

38. Have you watched the news in these last 2 months?

[Demonaut]

41. what does that mean? of course I have, bases have resources

on the base, ready and available, they don't pull from the strategic stockpile, I worked in the Operations Div

[demtenjeep]

44. +10000

as a fellow cruiser I hate comments like this.

AND, I am still praying that mine in June happens

[Ms. Toad]

68. I have a friend on the Zaandam -

She is a US resident who was vacationing in Buenos Aires, and was taking the Zaandam on a 14-day tour of south america before landing in Chile, to fly home to the US.

While I agree that it was stupid, on that date (March 7), to hop on a cruise, the consequences stupid should not be imprisonment or being left to die at sea. (Four have already died.)

There is no excuse for not extending a humanitarian hand by allowing them to dock.

[Sherman A1]

81. I would agree that available aid should be sent to the ships

should be sent to the ships via air or sea but I do not believe they should dock in a US port.

[Violet_Crumble]

87. I don't agree that it was stupid on March 7...

I was in a hotel room overlooking the cruise ships in Sydney Harbour on March 11 (I went to see New Order!!), and we wandered down to Circular Quay the next morning to where a Royal Caribbean ship was loading up with passengers. My daughter and I watched people checking in and both agreed we maybe would go if it were us. If you'd asked us a week later, we'd have said it was not only stupid, but suicidal to go on a cruise. That's how quickly things changed. Passengers on cruises got stuck. Some were on cruises that had started in January, back when there was no idea this would happen. Others maybe had a niggle that things weren't great, but took the chance and went anyway. Many of them are elderly. At least the passengers have been removed from the 8 cruise ships off the coast of Sydney, but there's still thousands of crew on board and the ships should be allowed to dock (mind you, Sydney doesn't have the parking spaces for 8 big ships) and the crew be repatriated to their home countries...

[StarfishSaver]

42. Many of these people got on the ships before the extent of this danger was known

But even if they didn't, I don't understand how one's sympathy for their fellow humans who are suffering and dying is determined by whether or not they made the right choices.

[Sherman A1]

58. What about the folks that will have no choice but to deal with

the folks who are on these ships?

[Skittles]

84. would you think differently if a family member was on that ship?

just curious

[Sherman A1]

85. No, I do not believe I would do so

People accept a level of risk in any travel be it car, air or other. Had it been a family member going aboard, I would have advised against it as I have advised family members regarding other things I felt to be unwise decisions(including a young niece traveling with another family to a Mexico resort last year for vacation), but adults make their own choices and must accept the risks and consequences of their actions.

I am certainly empathic to the situation and believe that available supplies and aid should be sent to the ships, but that they should not dock in a US port.

[Skittles]

88. your subject line said it all

done here

[Sherman A1]

89. Yup

Done as well.

[Cirque du So-What]

2. Some claim they booked a cruise because Gov DeSatan said it was OK

That was their first mistake - trusting that lying sack-o-shit.

[Turbineguy]

3. The passengers are just ordinary people

looking to have a vacation.

Many of the crew members are from poor countries and trying to make a living.

[customerserviceguy]

15. Looks like

that way of life is over with.

[Miguelito Loveless]

4. As much as these people are probably Trump voters

it is the only humane thing to do.

[snowybirdie]

6. In really torn on this issue

Those poor folks stranded, some sick. What will they do? On the other hand, I live in Florida and am scared this part of Florida will be overrun with sickness and supply deficiencies. We live here and pay taxes. The cruise lines have been selfish and greedy. Surely an alternative plan can be done that will help them while protecting us? Lord help us!

[MoonlitKnight]

9. The ships should dock in the country who's flag they operate under

Simple.

[Sherman A1]

12. Yup

that is where they are registered.

[exboyfil]

18. They will be dead or incapacitated by the time they get to the Netherlands

200 hours or so for that trip assuming 5,000 miles and 25 mph.

Now probably isn't the time to make the point. I would assume future legislation will ensure that more taxes are collected from this industry to pay for the US Navy, US Coast Guard, and the other things done by the public purse to support the cruise line (just kidding, we know that won't happen).

[StarfishSaver]

43. Wow

Demand that America slam the doors on suffering people and send them to their deaths because we don't think they're worthy of our help?

How cruel.

[bluescribbler]

52. USA did it before

In the 1930s a ship carrying Jewish refugees was denied entry. Eventually the refugees were sent back to Europe where many wound up in the concentration camps. It wasn't right then and it isn't right now.

[StarfishSaver]

63. Exactly

And this is just what this sounds like. As you said, it wasn't right then and it isn't right now. History will not be kind ...

[Skittles]

83. I agree

they are people who need help

the sentiment here reminds me of repuke cruelty towards immigrants

[homegirl]

48. And

the country they have paid taxes to should bail the cruise line out!

[la-trucker]

14. Many of those people are Americans

If you are riding a bus with Illinois tags and it gets into an accident in California - will you tell those people to go back to Illinois?

[Hoyt]

20. The people on-board are not guilty of a tax scheme. Do agree on stimulus, however.

[localroger]

25. Similar to a lot of seafood businesses after BP spill

Lot of cash business, lot of business under the table to hide it from the IRS. When the government came around to write checks to compensate people who'd lost $$$ turns out they could only claim what they'd declared on their tax forms. For some of them this was 10% of their real business and they howled bloody murder. To which everyone else said, "if you'd paid your taxes this wouldn't be happening."

[malaise]

27. I separate the passengers from the owners

That said you couldn't pay me to go on a cruise (and that was long before Covid-19). I couldn't bear the thought of being in an enclosed space with 3,000 strangers.

[ProfessorGAC]

36. Same Here

We never even had a fleeting thought of doing it.
Just not sounding fun to us.

[malaise]

37. One of my siblings wanted to celebrate her birthday on a cruise

That was a non-starter. It will never be my idea of fun.

[BigmanPigman]

47. That is my idea of Hell.

I would rather chew glass, but that's me.

[malaise]

51. Same here

Not me

[keithbvadu2]

56. "with 3,000 strangers"

My aircraft carrier had more than that.

I wanted to take my gf on a cruise but we were both afraid of the 'cruise flu'.

This was before the current Trumpvirus.

[whathehell]

29. Most people don't know squat about a cruise line's tax status

and neither did these passengers -- The comany deserves zero in termd of a bailout, but the passengers do NOT deserve to be "punished" for this.

[Blues Heron]

33. They need to get those people off the ships right now anything less is cold blooded murder

Are they supposed to sail in circles until they're dead? Get them off, now. Florida loves those cruise ships in good times, now they can help out in bad. How evil is it to not let them land.

[StarfishSaver]

45. Thank you.

It's distressing to see Democrats express some of the views I see in this thread.

We're better than that. Or at least I thought we were.

[Marrah_Goodman]

35. They can all fuck right off.

Let them doc. Get the US citizens off and tell them to scram.

[DVRacer]

40. Allow the ships to reregister as American

Make them keep the registration as U.S. for a minimum of 10 years. Require them to meet all standards and if contract is broken never be allowed to use U.S. ports of call for the entire line. The line must also reimburse for all expenses for this emergency and all taxes due for the year.

[Dem2theMax]

46. I'm glad I still have my humanity.

No matter the reason why they were on the cruise ship, they are human beings who are part of a worldwide crisis. It doesn't matter what flag was flying, it doesn't matter about taxes right now. All that matters is that there are people who might be suffering, might be dying, and they need help.

And any country that can help, should help.

Period.

[warmonger456]

49. Let the passengers disembark -- Fuck the cruise liner Companies

I say they let the passengers disembark and quarentine on land at or near the terminal. They are our citizens and we need to take care of them.

The cruise ship companies can go fuck themselves.

[Blue_true]

74. I agree.

Isolate them totally from populations for 60 days. Provide medical care and food. Test them every week of that 60 day period.

[PaulRevere08]

50. Let them dock, confiscate the boats, sterilize and turn into floating hospitals.

If the owners want then back at some point they pay for the costs that the states incurred dealing with passengers. If not the states auction to the highest bidder. I'm sure there will be legal considerations but right now, screwem.

[bluescribbler]

54. I like that idea.

[democrattotheend]

53. I think some of the people on the ships are Americans

And regardless, they are human beings, so I think keeping them stuck on the ship is pretty inhumane. But I 1000% agree the cruise lines should not get any bailout money. They should ask the countries they are incorporated in for a bailout.

[BigmanPigman]

55. Go figure, another mega $$$ industry

with its tail between its legs. Go stand in line behind the airlines, cruise ship industry!

[keithbvadu2]

59. No stimulus for you

No stimulus for you

[Totally Tunsie]

60. Where have you seen the cruise lines are looking for stimulus money?

Carnival is looking to RAISE $6B itself; not looking for US government handout.

https://dnyuz.com/2020/03/31/carnival-cruises-seeks-6bn-funding-amid-coronavirus-fallout/

The cruise giant, whose lines include the UK’s P&O Cruises and Cunard, and the Princess brand whose ships were the first to be quarantined offshore due to coronavirus, will raise $3bn in bonds secured on its ships, a further $1.75bn in convertible bonds and $1.25bn through issuing new shares

.

[AtheistCrusader]

61. It's less about taxes and more about getting around requirements to use US-built ships.

It also gets them different preferential treatment in foreign ports, opens up some foreign markets to them that would otherwise be unavailable. It also affects who they can hire as crew. (Obviously, wanting cheaper labor markets than the US)

But absolutely, they should get ZERO fucking stimulus money because of the avoidance of tax and fees.

[cstanleytech]

62. From what I read it looks like the cruise lines will not get any help as it says aid is for

“an entity or business that is domiciled in the United States with significant operations and employees located in the United States.” which if the cruise lines likely do not qualify for if they are operating under another nations flag.
Hopefully it will also be applied to other businesses that have located their headquarters outside of the US to avoid taxes like Burger King as they (including all their franchises here inside the US) should not receive any aid.

[Eko]

70. For some reason this argument reminds me of

the one where we just let undocumented immigrants die because they don't pay taxes and knew what they were getting into when they broke the law and came to our country. Not sure who pushes that one and why it reminds me of this one,,,,,, right. Right? lol. Yall who dont think we should help them should be very very ashamed of yourselves. Thats the nice way us from the south tell you to go flunk off.
Eko.

[aikoaiko]

71. Helping US residents come home? Yes. Bailing out non-US companies? No.

Its easy.

[GulfCoast66]

72. What? Fuck all those people, including hundreds of your fellow Americans?

Let them sit there and die?

I could read the same on right wing sites.

If you don’t see the difference between helping the people suffering on that ship and helping the cruise company you define being a liberal very differently than I.

Respectfully, your post is one of the most fucked up post I have ever read on DU.

[Blue_true]

75. Righteous rant. And I bet that person insists on MFA or nothing. nt

[GulfCoast66]

80. I don't know about all that.

MFA vs improved ACA is a legit argument. I’m opposed to MFA but respect those who favor it.

But I have no respect for allowing thousands of people and hundreds of Americans to die just off shore. Because what? MAGA? Bullshit.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

77. How about all the U.S. companies that don't pay taxes?

The cruise ships are registered in other countries for a lot of reasons, mainly so they can pay a lot of the crew extremely low wages.

Meanwhile, such stalwarts of American enterprise such as Amazon, Netflix, Delta Airlines, Chevron, General Motors, Goodyear Tire, IBM, JetBlue, U.S. Steel, and Whirpool haven't paid any taxes recently.

Here's a link to the full list. https://itep.org/notadime/#table

The cruise ships are the least of those who haven't paid taxes.

[obnoxiousdrunk]

79. Dear gawd ..

What happened to DU ?

[Violet_Crumble]

82. After reading this thread, I wondered the same thing....

Scott Morrison and Peter Dutton would find some total soul mates in this thread

[canetoad]

86. There are people on those ships

As fellow humans it's our duty to, at the very least, not impede their path to safety. Your connection of taxes to the value of lives is disgusting.