Actually, Many New Yorkers HAVE Fled to Florida

[MineralMan]

Most of them have winter residences in that state and are primarily wealthy people who can afford to winter in that state. They have probably reasoned that they'll be OK there, if they hole up in their large homes and don't go out.

The problem with that is that such people are used to having people "do for them." They can afford to hire housekeepers, cooks, nannies, landscape maintenance people. and the like. They like to do that, and pay those people as little as they possibly can for their help and assistance.

So, people come into those luxurious homes to keep things tidy and to do the work wealthy people do not deign to do. Further, the people they hire go back to their own homes daily, in most cases. Live-in domestic workers are rare these days, even among the wealthy.

Somehow, the folks who fled to Florida aren't considering that factor. Soon, however, they will be forced to do so, when the housekeeper calls in sick after her symptoms show up.

You can't run from an epidemic, unless you stay away from everyone. You can't hire poorly paid servants and stay away from the cause of the epidemic. They'll learn that.

[Phoenix61]

1. There's absolutely no proof that occurred.

They’ve checked flights records and they didn’t fly here. If they had a second residence here most were already here doing their “winter in Florida” routine.

[MineralMan]

5. Who has checked flight records? I've not seen any information about that.

Really, I can't imagine anyone poring over airline passenger lists, looking for wealthy people's names.

In any event, private jets fly between New York and Florida all the time, and no passenger lists are available from those.

[Phoenix61]

11. A news agency checked the number of passengers

flying from New York when DeSantis made the claim they caused the increase in covid cases. You have to prof what you are claiming is true.

[MineralMan]

17. But, you see, I did not claim that those people were causing the increase.

I said nothing of the sort. What I was talking about was people attempting to flee the disease in New York by going to their second homes in Florida, and the futility of that.

I made no claims regarding those people taking the illness to Florida. None whatsoever.

[Phoenix61]

21. What you said was they were fleeing New York

and coming to Florida. I offered proof they were not doing so on commercial flights. Where's your proof your statement is true!

[MineralMan]

24. I'm not a journalist, nor am I writing for a publication.

I have no responsibility to provide you with any proof of anything.

[cwydro]

33. They could be driving.

Most people want their cars with them.

I used to live in Florida. This time of year the number of northern plates on cars always increased greatly.

[Jersey Devil]

2. If driving, a real problem is along I-95 at all the rest stops and motels

The rest stops along the route are always packed and you simply MUST stop at many of them along the way. Pack hundreds of people at a time into those rest areas and you will spread Covid from NYC to Florida and the stops in between, not just Florida.

[snowybirdie]

3. That's a pretty broad generalization

There are many, many more regular folks who spend the winter in Florida. Have you seen the thousands of rv parks in this state? Most homes are modest and less expensive than those up north. Actually the folks here in Gulf Shore Blvd. are less numerous. Camparably, the regulars outnumber the richies. It's also very hard to find anyone to "do" for them. With crackdowns on immigration, many hourly workers aren't around anymore.

[genxlib]

26. Agreed. That was my reaction to

There are a lot of really moderate and lower wealth people who do winter here.

It is too broad a statement to refer to them as wealthy.

In most cases, they are just not going back rather than returning here.

[beachbumbob]

4. not likely fleeing to Florida as that area has some rally pisspoor Healthcare in the first place

the real concern is to their "summer" homes on Cape Cod, etc and again lacks healthcare

[OAITW r.2.0]

28. That is a real concern on the Cape.

There are only 2 major hospitals on Cape Cod. My GF told me the other night that her sister (living on the Cape) told her that they are turning out-of-state vehicles away from the Cape. Towns are not turning on the water for summer residential occupancy to discourage people from coming to their summer homes/cottages.

[beachbumbob]

31. yep, we have friends on the Cape and they say no way is their services in place to handle the

resident's healthcare needs and its 100x greater when the seasonal people come

[Mister Ed]

6. And the poor domestic servants are more likely to catch it from their employers than give it them.

Wealth and mobility have so far been the vectors for the spread of the virus. That will probably change before long, sadly, and the most financially vulnerable will be hard-hit.

[rzemanfl]

16. So true.

"Wealth and mobility have so far been the vectors for the spread of the virus." I'm sure European peasants received no benefit from the cargos of the ships that carried the black death to Europe.

[Fla Dem]

7. They're not all "wealthy people" with hired staffs.

I live in a middle class neighborhood near the coast. Many of my neighbors, I'd say 20-30 percent also have out of state residences. There is of course wealthy enclaves like Ponte Vedra, (where by the way our trump ass kissing governor has his residence, and was my rep before becoming governor by cheating), Palm Beach, West Palm Beach and other wealthy areas.

But most of the influx is by retirees with their trailers or folks who have had a winter home here for years, or a condo. I see plenty of out of state cars not just from NY and the people in them are not the well to do. That's not to say the wealthy aren't coming, but many non-wealthy are coming as well.

[roamer65]

8. There is no escaping Captain Tripps.

[MineralMan]

14. That is very true, although some will try.

[getagrip_already]

9. Let's just STOP please - visitors have every right to go where they want

They may own property or have rented for YEARS. They may just have decided to bug out. It DOESN'T matter.

Americans have the right to travel freely within the country. It is an inalienable right.

We are one country. Despite republican efforts to create a state of civil war, we have the right to travel.

Sure, impose mandatory quarantine for new arrivals. Sure, educate them. No, do not discriminate and create hate.

But don't play the blame where you live or came from game. It is republican and repugnant.

This territorial blame game is hate, pure and simple. It is a republican talking point.

[MineralMan]

12. Of course they have that right. I did not suggest that they didn't or shouldn't.

Nor did I suggest that they not be allowed to live wherever they want. I don't know where you got the idea that I did.

I was simply describing something.

[greenjar_01]

18. ...

"I was simply describing something."

[getagrip_already]

20. Sorry, it is a pervasive theme - even here on DU

But it is still a republican talking point. It was pointed out that most snowbirds have been in Florida since last fall. They would stay until may or june even without a crisis.

It is a dubious claim that they have rushed down there. I could think of a hundred places to go before I would bug out to florida.

But regardless, even if it were true, so what? Why call it out at all? It is just reinforcing a pejorative narrative relating to "outsiders".

I didn't mean to single you out. I apologize for that. But I have been seeing these posts over and over, and I'm getting more than a little annoyed by them.

[Heddi]

46. describing something made up out of whole cloth and simply incorrect

They're not coming down in droves
they don't live a luxurious lifestyle
they don't live in mansions
they don't have live in servants, housekeepers and domestic help
they're not wealthy

but please....keep describing

Shit -- my publix (local grocery store) and costco hires the snowbirds that come down here and need supplemental income. I guess their insatiable greed just can't keep them from wanting an extra $11/hour bagging groceries at publix!! WHEN WILL IT END

[beachbumbob]

32. I hate tell but state health depts has power to restrict travel as well as enforce quarantines

I suggest any violators get sent to the nearest jail that has the virus running rampant.

[getagrip_already]

34. we aren't talking about travel....

We are talking about those perceived as "outsiders". They are already where they are.

It is hateful, dehumanizing language.

[beachbumbob]

40. if you are not a fulltime resident, those who don' live "full time" are perceived as

outsiders, in Florida the term is "snowbird"

[getagrip_already]

41. In normal times, nobody discriminates against "outsiders" be they

snowbirds or vacationers.

But florida is one step away from declaring their medical services will be for residents only. This is what hate talk leads to. Immigrants, the elderly, anybody who can't prove citizenship with multiple forms of state approved id could be denied medical care.

That is the evil of this talk.

[NewJeffCT]

10. Most New Yorkers and New Englanders with winter homes in Florida

would have traveled to Florida after Christmas or in early January and stayed there for the next 3-4 months.

And, there are many thousands of "snowbirds" that don't live in mansions in Florida or NY. My parents still live in the same modest ranch home in Connecticut that they bought in 1973, spent and saved their money wisely over the years and bought a modest condo in Florida in the mid 1990s in anticipation of their retirement in the early 2000s. Most of the residents in their condo complex of several hunded condos are from middle class backgrounds in the Northeast and Midwest.

[MineralMan]

13. That's true. Many Minnesotans also own homes in Florida.

I'm talking about one group of people, only - the wealthy. I'm describing something that is no doubt happening. I'm not criticizing those who have second homes in Florida. I'm just describing something, and commenting on the futility of fleeing one place for another in a pandemic.

[getagrip_already]

25. that is an interesting concern...

Wealthy people. Hmmm.

--Not the people who live year round at the villages and openly are opposing stay at home requests?

--Not the people who live year round in conservative communities where they are still packing beaches, and restaurants, and bars?

--Not people still having risky sex with multiple partners?

--Not the people who would attend parties at mar-a-lago?

And yes, I'm aware that most of those groups are the same community and full time residents.

Interesting.

We are staying put right here in mass. While not super wealthy, we do pay a private cleaning woman to come in every two weeks; she normally brings one or two family members. We have asked her to not come for the past two cycles, and likely won't for the next two. But guess what, we are paying them anyway. They are Guatemalan, and I'm sure they don't qualify for ui benefits or any special assistance. And fwiw, 4 of the 5 people living here are recently unemployed (including me).

How do you know what the "rich" people in florida will actually do?

[spooky3]

36. Agree. And, as someone who works long hours,

I pay $40 per hour for cleaning services, to keep my sanity. It’s not starvation pay. And I paid this week for them to stay at home, as did many of my neighbors. I’m not wealthy and don’t take expensive vacations, so that I can pay for their excellent services.

[smirkymonkey]

43. Like my parents. Who are still there and plan to remain until the end of April.

But they have a two bedroom condo on the beach, not a "mansion" and they don't have servants or other hired help.

[NewJeffCT]

44. my parents

have a 2BR condo that is walking distance to the beach - not even on the beach.

[greenjar_01]

15. We're gonna be all over the shuffleboard court

[Initech]

39. Del Boca Vista Phase 2

[phylny]

19. We have a similar issue here in our Virginia lake community.

Many people from Northern Virginia and other areas have lake homes here. Many have come to stay here. No problem with that, really, if they're practicing social distancing. Some are not - dock parties have been spotted with many cars at the home.

Our biggest issue is that they have come and bought groceries in the local stores before "the season" has started. The issue with that is that our grocery stores order based upon last year's sales. The woman checking me out today said that some people have come and obliterated the supplies, buying $800 worth of groceries. The store simply can't keep up. That leaves some of our locals high and dry when it comes to meat (only chicken thighs today) and ground beef (75/25, which I bought but NEVER buy because it's too fatty). Don't even ask about toilet paper! There's no rice, little in the dairy case, and very little bread. It's tough for many.

[MineralMan]

22. We have a similar situation here in Minnesota.

Many people have lake homes in the northern part of the state. Since the pandemic is worse here in the Twin Cities metro area, some are heading for their lake homes to try to escape the virus. It won't work, of course, and they're taxing the resources in those small lake towns, just as you described.

The really wealthy here already live in lake shore mansions near the cities, with good separation from each other.

[tulipsandroses]

23. I don't know about that. I relocated to FL last summer- Everyone I met told

me about the "snowbird culture" - One of my coworkers is a Snowbird. She lives in Oregon half the year and FL the other half.

Like someone else said, those that winter here, were more than likely already here. As the snowbird season had long already started.
Oh yeah its a thing and it has a season. You know when it starts if you are a local.
Traffic increases, there are more jobs - ( That is before Covid 19) - There is a lot of seasonal work due to the increased population during the snow bird season.

Everyone tried to warn me about the increased traffic during snow bird season but I did not realize how bad it would get. I have to leave home 20 mins earlier now to get to work on time. Very different from the summer time and early fall when Snow birds are not here.

A lot of snowbirds are renters. Lots of places offer seasonal rent which totally confused me when I was looking for a place to live before I relocated. Once I got here, I realized that was due to snow bird season.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

27. They call it shelter in place for a reason.

It's not a hurricane. There's not a direct path you can escape.

If you have it, and you don't know it, you can bring it to a less exposed area and that area is no longer less exposed.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

29. MM, I get your point, showing how interconnected we all are.

Just saw this on Guardian UK: https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/apr/02/coronavirus-live-news-global-cases-latest-updates

Data released on Wednesday night by the New York City health authority shows that it is the poorest districts that have been hit hardest by the spread of coronavirus. Residents in the Jackson Heights, Elmhurst and Corona sections of Queens, which are poorer and could be more likely to have many people living under one roof, have tested positive for the virus in far greater numbers and at higher rates per capita than in wealthy, mostly white parts of Manhattan and Brooklyn.

According to an Associated Press report, people living in one Queens zip code just south of LaGuardia airport were roughly four times as likely to have tested positive as people in the gentrified section of Brooklyn where Mayor Bill de Blasio lives. According to the AP’s report:

The numbers back something that has, for days, seemed obvious at Elmhurst hospital, the only major medical center serving that part of Queens where infections are most prevalent. Long lines of people waiting for testing and treatment outside the hospital have been one of the defining images of the pandemic, as have stories of multiple deaths in Elmhurst’s overburdened wards.

Dr Mitchell Katz, the chief executive of the city-run hospital system, told the agency that housing could be playing a role. He said: We know that in Queens, many families, because of poverty, live together in very close quarters. So that while we are practising as a city social distancing, you may have multiple families living together in a very small apartment. And so its easy to understand why theres a lot of transmission of Covid occurring.

So, it's a double-edge sword: the wealthy are inherently dependent on far more humans they don't know for their survival which ultimately raises their risk even though they can afford big elbow room. Conversely, the poor live in much closer quarters but are more likely to know each other, learn from mistakes and help protect themselves as a group.

KY.........

[lunasun]

30. So..poorly paid domestic help is the cause of the epidemic in FL. "They'll learn that"

[MineralMan]

37. I did not say that, nor did I imply it.

The coronavirus does not discriminate according to income. That is the lesson they will learn. Not the one you suggest.

[ismnotwasm]

35. I don't think this behavior is limited to New York

My oldest daughter lives on the Olympic peninsula in Washington state. She lives rurally Apparently there were a lot of California “tourists” descending on the town of Forks. I told her to stay away from them, because there is little reason to go to out there this time of year.

[MineralMan]

38. Wise advice to your daughter, i think.

Many people who live in current hot zones in this pandemic are fleeing those areas, if they have the means to do so. They will, inevitably bring the illness with them, wherever they go.

During the European plague, the wealthy fled to the countryside, spreading the pestilence as they went. We will see similar things happen here, no doubt. We have the freedom to travel in this country, without restriction. So, people will go from dangerous places to places they think are safe, but they cannot escape, really.

[GusBob]

42. Boy, is your description way off base

I lived in FL for decades. Your description is wrong

Sure there are some wealthy folks with servants in big houses. But the vast majority of NY and snowbirds live packed in condos, apartments, tract housing, some even live in campgrounds in RV's. These are not wealthy people. That's why early bird discounts are so popular. The biggest threat for CV is theses condo high rises. You cannot social distance on an elevator

<There's a common joke among waiters that goes here which I wont repeat lest I offend someone>

Take a place like Palm Coast Florida. This place was founded on NY retirees. It was marketed sold in NY to police and firefighters. These folks don't have servants. In fact some of them supplement their income by housekeeping and other work
Lately Palm coast has become a haven for wealthy Russians. They only hire other Russians to work for them usually relatives from the old ccountry

[Heddi]

45. you know nothing about Snowbirds. Please stop

The Snowbirds you are describing are fictitious and your post is embarrassing, as others have pointed out.

But i'll add to it because you don't seem to want to correct yourself, so I'll correct for you.

Snowbird season is November - May.

Snowbirds are already here, adn they're not just New Yorkers. They're from NY, NJ, PA, OH, CT, Canada, and even wonderful ol' Minnesota.

They don't have servants, and they don't have waitstaff.

They live in cheap-ass condos or trailers or RVs. They may have a second home that they paid off years ago, or they may do seasonal rentals. THese rentals are in the range of 300-600 per month, age restricted communities, and far far cheaper than going rate for this area.

They don't live in luxury homes. They are retired, lower middle class people who come to FL during the bad weather months that fucks up their COPD, CHF, and Asthma (amongst other medical conditions).

Live in domestic workers? What the FUCK are you talking about? Housekeepers?

Put down the pipe.

I live in Clearwater. Snowbird capitol. These folks are normal folks. No housekeepers. no servants. no domestic workers.

They drive beater cars and shop amongst the "normal people."

Please stop pontificating on things that you know nothing about and only think you know about because you saw something on TV once.

[MineralMan]

48. I'm not talking about snowbirds at all.

I'm talking about rich people who have places in West Palm Beach, not middle class folks who have a condo somewhere.

[democrattotheend]

47. I hope so

Our hospitals are already overwhelmed. Florida, unlike New York, got everything it requested from the stockpile despite having many fewer cases. So Florida should have more hospital capacity right now. The fewer people in New York needing treatment right now, the better.

[Raftergirl]

49. I have many wealthy friends and family

who live in a Palm Beach County/Broward County and Miami-Dade for the “winter.” At the earliest they come back right north before Passover/Easter.

They don’t have servants. They have a cleaning person who comes once a week - just like they do in NY/CT.

I don’t have a second home there, but my mom lives there year round now. She is 90 and sold her home up north years ago - like many of the snowbirds eventually do. Some of my friends (we are in our 60’s) have already sold their homes in NY/CT and are Florida residents now. They come up for a few weeks in the dead of summer to get away from the heat and to visit kids and grandkids.

I have a cleaning person, too. But she cancelled her jobs for now. I am still paying her though. Just like I’m still paying my stylist and my manicurist-even though they are closed for business.

And my lawn guy came yesterday to do my spring clean up. I never had to leave the house and he didn’t even come to the door. I kept my dogs inside while he was here.

In short, you don’t know what you are talking about and haven’t a clue how people who can afford to have a cleaning person/landscape people/pool guy are acting in today’s circumstances.