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Atticus

(15,124 posts)
Thu Apr 2, 2020, 01:37 PM Apr 2020

I'll go there. We are being told by perfectly earnest and sincere people that most of us

should not be wearing masks because healthcare personnel need them worse than we do.

This used to be the United States Of America and we did not have to make choices like this. In a national emergency, our government saw to it that EVERYONE got what they needed to survive. In the Fifties, when I stood in line to get my polio vaccine, everybody in my school---and every other school---got the vaccine without charge. And, we all got vaccinated for smallpox in the same fashion.

Why should we now have to feel guilty about maximizing our chances of survival and lessening the chances we'll infect our family?

Why are there not enough masks for everyone? (That's a rhetorical question. We all know damn well "why".)

41 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I'll go there. We are being told by perfectly earnest and sincere people that most of us (Original Post) Atticus Apr 2020 OP
K&R SheltieLover Apr 2020 #1
I have one N95 mask Rorey Apr 2020 #2
I've bought some PM2.5 filters and am going to make some masks to hold them KewlKat Apr 2020 #3
I worry that folks will not use homemade masks jmbar2 Apr 2020 #4
I use a homemade mask - better than nothing Merlot Apr 2020 #5
Let's say each infected person spreads it to 1.5 others. That's exponential growth. lagomorph777 Apr 2020 #16
It's still exponential growth central scrutinizer Apr 2020 #35
Reproduction number lagomorph777 Apr 2020 #38
I was assuming that people remained infectious indefinitely central scrutinizer Apr 2020 #41
I worry that people will wear them. Runningdawg Apr 2020 #6
Interesting points jmbar2 Apr 2020 #7
These are really good points. Zing Zing Zingbah Apr 2020 #9
Dr Zeke Emmanuel said we need to wear masks womanofthehills Apr 2020 #26
Oh, they think they can move right in on you obamanut2012 Apr 2020 #11
100% correct. Saw a couple at the store adjusting there masks constantly grantcart Apr 2020 #18
Excellent technique!! Runningdawg Apr 2020 #25
Same with washing hands. Most people don't do it properly but think they are safe. Kaleva Apr 2020 #24
In any case, they won't hurt spinbaby Apr 2020 #8
I was in Japan two weeks ago central scrutinizer Apr 2020 #36
If I remember correctly Varaddem Apr 2020 #10
I'm one of those babies Nonhlanhla Apr 2020 #14
He would be proud Varaddem Apr 2020 #34
masks are not a single thing. It is not an either/or proposition. Ms. Toad Apr 2020 #12
Your government sold you out to the highest bidder malaise Apr 2020 #13
Damn Straight econron Apr 2020 #17
No need to worry, Russia to the rescue. I have seen it all now. Putin sending tons of Pepsidog Apr 2020 #15
I would highly suspect anything Putin sends......... DENVERPOPS Apr 2020 #20
Yes and they equivocate on home made masks. gordianot Apr 2020 #19
Outsourcing the production of these items Sewa Apr 2020 #21
No need to take masks from medical professionals. Homemade masks DO help!! Thekaspervote Apr 2020 #22
Thanks for the do it yourself mask. BarbD Apr 2020 #27
I don't post often,.... NCDawg Apr 2020 #23
Here is another "why" question: world wide wally Apr 2020 #28
Disaster capitalism is a once in a lifetime opportunity. NoMoreRepugs Apr 2020 #29
Why? Republicans. rickyhall Apr 2020 #30
The way I look at it, wearing an N95 mask plus observing social distancing and hand washing Mike 03 Apr 2020 #31
By the way, for the first week or so I was one of those well meaning and earnest Mike 03 Apr 2020 #32
I made a mask using cotton T-shirt remnants and cotton cloth. wendyb-NC Apr 2020 #33
America isn't the same great country that once took care of itself and the world. ffr Apr 2020 #37
You're behind the times. As for why there aren't "enough" masks, Hortensis Apr 2020 #39
Agreed. nt Atticus Apr 2020 #40

Rorey

(8,441 posts)
2. I have one N95 mask
Thu Apr 2, 2020, 01:44 PM
Apr 2020

My son had some from way before the emergency, and he actually gave me a few and I kept one and gave the rest to my daughter. With her health problems, she will most likely not survive this thing is she gets it. She only goes out to go to the doctor.

I am more comfortable wearing my cloth reusable maks, instead of the N95. They're super comfortable, and several layers thick, so I think they're probably pretty effective.

But yes, there should absolutely be enough masks for everyone. That we're in this predicament of not having PPE is inexcusable.

KewlKat

(5,622 posts)
3. I've bought some PM2.5 filters and am going to make some masks to hold them
Thu Apr 2, 2020, 01:44 PM
Apr 2020

for us and my very elderly aunt and uncle and MIL. So far they are staying away from everyone. Filters come in next week so I have some time to make the masks. I don’t want to take any from our healthcare providers but do believe we should be wearing masks.

jmbar2

(4,805 posts)
4. I worry that folks will not use homemade masks
Thu Apr 2, 2020, 01:47 PM
Apr 2020

I lived in Asia and it was considered a matter of etiquette to wear a mask if you had a cold. I do believe that custom has contributed to their relatively better outcomes.

Homemade masks won't prevent viruses from infecting you. But they do help reduce the spread of droplets, and keep your hands off your face. If it's even a 40% reduction in risk, that's a lot spread out over a whole population.

Merlot

(9,693 posts)
5. I use a homemade mask - better than nothing
Thu Apr 2, 2020, 01:57 PM
Apr 2020

I'll take those 50% odds. I think it's helpful to let others know that you're taking this seriously because so many people aren't. I also don't want to be seen as taking a medical mask from medical professionals.

FYI, I made masks with pockets and put hepa vacuum bags or non-woven material in the pocket. If you can't sew, you can still cut the squares out of the vacuum bags and wrap them in a bandanna.

I have no doubt that we should all be wearing masks at this time.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
16. Let's say each infected person spreads it to 1.5 others. That's exponential growth.
Thu Apr 2, 2020, 03:21 PM
Apr 2020

But 50% of 1.5 others is 0.75 others. That's exponential decay (i.e. the tail of the curve).

We should all be taking that 50% and do whatever else we can do to make a difference in risk.

central scrutinizer

(11,609 posts)
35. It's still exponential growth
Thu Apr 2, 2020, 09:44 PM
Apr 2020

Just slower. Suppose you have 100 infected people and a 0.75 transmission rate. After one iteration, you have 175 infected people. Next iteration - those 175 people infect 131 new people. Next iteration - those 306 people infect 230 new people.....

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
38. Reproduction number
Fri Apr 3, 2020, 08:14 AM
Apr 2020
The basic reproduction number (denoted by R0) is a measure of how transferable a disease is. It is the average number of people that a single infectious person will infect over the course of their infection. This quantity determines whether the infection will spread exponentially, die out, or remain constant: if R0 > 1, then each person on average infects more than one other person so the disease will spread; if R0 < 1, then each person infects fewer than one person on average so the disease will die out; and if R0 = 1, then each person will infect exactly one other person, so the disease will become endemic: it will move throughout the population but not increase or decrease.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_modelling_of_infectious_disease

central scrutinizer

(11,609 posts)
41. I was assuming that people remained infectious indefinitely
Fri Apr 3, 2020, 10:14 AM
Apr 2020

In my example. If my original 100 people infected 75 new people and then ceased being able to infect anybody (either by death or their immune system wiped out the virus) then you’re correct. It will die out. I assume the R0 number considers many factors.

Runningdawg

(4,488 posts)
6. I worry that people will wear them.
Thu Apr 2, 2020, 01:58 PM
Apr 2020

People who are not used to wearing masks will actually touch their face and the mask MORE. It gets wet and itchy, clings to their face, they adjust it, they slide it up and down talking on the phone, they keep readjusting it because it is sliding down below their nose or fogging their glasses.
It used to be my job to teach Med school students proper technique in the OR. The minute the students put on a mask they started playing with it. Instead put a brightly colored rubber band on your dominant wrist, you will see it before that hand gets to your face. Wash it every time you wash your hands and change it daily.
Also, masks give people a false sense of security. Many believe as long as they wear a mask they are free from social distancing.

jmbar2

(4,805 posts)
7. Interesting points
Thu Apr 2, 2020, 02:03 PM
Apr 2020

Great tip on the wrist band - thanks. Gonna stick with my masks. I am part of the collective of sewists making them. I live in a high risk apt complex with lots of elders.

Zing Zing Zingbah

(6,496 posts)
9. These are really good points.
Thu Apr 2, 2020, 02:05 PM
Apr 2020

Thanks for sharing. It seems like a lot of things are being done in a rush/panic lately and the consequences have not been thoroughly thought out yet. What you are saying makes a lot of sense and I can see why they would say not to wear a mask if you are are not sick based on this. I'm certain it would bother me tons to where one that I would probably touch my face more than normal. Same for my kids.

womanofthehills

(8,547 posts)
26. Dr Zeke Emmanuel said we need to wear masks
Thu Apr 2, 2020, 03:58 PM
Apr 2020

He said this on Lawrence’s show 2 days ago. He said it’s so basic - it lowers droplets in and droplets out. What he said that I really liked is - that by wearing a mask you are reminding people out there that this is dangerous and that you are conscientious. Plus, I’ve noticed when I have my mask on I am definitely given more space. If I run into a store - I want to get out very fast - no time to be touching and playing around with my mask. I get in my car, take it off and wipe my hands. Now - I decided I would mostly have my groceries brought out to me. I put my groceries in plastic bags and in my cooler.

obamanut2012

(25,869 posts)
11. Oh, they think they can move right in on you
Thu Apr 2, 2020, 02:27 PM
Apr 2020

I went to Target briefly yesterday to get some groceries and pick up a script. As I was grabbing a couple sleeves of sparkling water off the shelf, a woman with a cloth mask, sunglasses, and yellow dish gloves walked RIGHT UP TO ME (I had on neither gloves nor a mask, and yes, I wiped down my cart and kept proper social distance). I mean, she was five inches from me. I was like, would you BACK THE HELL UP?????? She was like, I have on a mask and gloves, you'll be okay.

JFC.

Then, I went to the pharmacy, waited on the red line, and a man came up and stood RIGHT behind me, again a few inches from me. He had on a Buf pulled over his nose and mouth, had on hat looked like racketball or shooting glasses, and had on mittens. Again, I asked him to step back the six feet where the red line was. He literally said to me, "Seriously???" and didn't move. The Pharm Tech ordered him to move or he wouldn't be served.

So, I agree with you.

(the woman appeared to be 40s, the man definitely 70s or so, by what I could see)

grantcart

(53,061 posts)
18. 100% correct. Saw a couple at the store adjusting there masks constantly
Thu Apr 2, 2020, 03:26 PM
Apr 2020

My wife and I wear disposable gloves.

One person shops and the other person watches the other person and stops him/her from touching

Gloves are taken off and thrown away at the stores door. Hand wash at the car.

At our garage non perishables are left for 2 days

Outer clothes go I no the wash, then a shower.

Masks will prevent distribution but if not handled correctly will increase absorption as you point out.

Kaleva

(36,094 posts)
24. Same with washing hands. Most people don't do it properly but think they are safe.
Thu Apr 2, 2020, 03:45 PM
Apr 2020

They hear all the time that one needs to wash their hands but they don't get the instructions on how to do so properly or they get the instructions but don't train themselves to do so instinctively. I know it took me quite awhile before it became second nature.

spinbaby

(15,073 posts)
8. In any case, they won't hurt
Thu Apr 2, 2020, 02:05 PM
Apr 2020

There are a million tutorials on the Internet showing how to make a mask, so we can all not spread our coughs and sneezes without taking supplies from healthcare workers.

I really wonder how the widespread use of masks influenced the spread of the virus in Japan. It’s a really dense country, so even with vigorous testing and contact tracing, I’d expect far more cases than they have. As far as I can tell from social media posts from friends there, everyone in Japan is still going out as usual

central scrutinizer

(11,609 posts)
36. I was in Japan two weeks ago
Thu Apr 2, 2020, 09:50 PM
Apr 2020

50% of people on the street were wearing masks and 100% of workers in stores were masked. This was in a prefecture which had zero confirmed cases at that time.

Varaddem

(431 posts)
10. If I remember correctly
Thu Apr 2, 2020, 02:13 PM
Apr 2020

Eisenhower’s cabinet was not a fan of Salk for giving the vaccine away.Socialism!
We are dealing with the same thing on steroids. They have no problem with profiteering and corruption.
I knew a man whose contribution to the infant incubator has saved a lot of children.The first thing other professors said about him is it the college got all the money.His take on it was I”We saved a lot of babies”. They flew him to the first 48, of which the Kennedy baby was one.

Varaddem

(431 posts)
34. He would be proud
Thu Apr 2, 2020, 05:18 PM
Apr 2020

And glad u made it! Dr. Leon Aarpp.l think they still use the respirator he contributed. Last saw him three years ago and he wasn’t doing well, or he would be coming up with some answers. Brilliant workaholic.

Pepsidog

(6,252 posts)
15. No need to worry, Russia to the rescue. I have seen it all now. Putin sending tons of
Thu Apr 2, 2020, 03:18 PM
Apr 2020

medical gear. Ronnie Reagan is turning in his grave.

DENVERPOPS

(8,640 posts)
20. I would highly suspect anything Putin sends.........
Thu Apr 2, 2020, 03:36 PM
Apr 2020

Just like the blankets that were given to the Native Americans that were laced with smallpox........Just think of all the whatever he could have built into the masks, with no better delivery system than inhaling the whatever into your lung with every single breath...

Pelosi: ALL ROADS LEAD TO PUTIN

Thekaspervote

(32,491 posts)
22. No need to take masks from medical professionals. Homemade masks DO help!!
Thu Apr 2, 2020, 03:42 PM
Apr 2020

?s=21

Large droplet infection with millions of viruses from a sneeze or a cough is what makes the illness so deadly. By cutting down on virus numbers, your body has a much better chance of forming antibodies and fending off the illness..

The world should be talking about the Czech Republic and how few cases they have! They ALL wear masks, mostly homemade

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1017574241

Here’s a really simple way to make mask



2 layers of paper towel is best

NCDawg

(45 posts)
23. I don't post often,....
Thu Apr 2, 2020, 03:44 PM
Apr 2020

But given the context of this thread I felt compelled...

As a career public servant in the field of Emergency Management, employed by the healthcare industry, I would never tell you not to wear your mask. Please!!!...That mask isn't there to protect you as much as you wearing it protects me from you! At this state in the game, everyone should be wearing a mask, or a damn bandanna if that's all they have.

That being said, what we are witnessing is a complete cluster f*ck of the practices and protocols established over the course of many decades. Incident Command was never established at the Federal level, likewise many States failed to act when it became clear that the Fed was playing golf! Like Katrina, this abject failure will be discussed for years to come. Suffice to say there is and was much that could and should have been done to lessen the impact of this virus. But honestly, after the numerous other failures, be they hurricanes, criminal associations, or grifting taxpayer money, is anyone seriously surprised? This is now the #imPOtuS's Virus. He will have the blood of thousands on his hands.....and we will survive this virus and him!

Wash your hands, wear your PPE, self isolate and stay at home if you can! Be safe, be careful, be prepared!!!

[link:https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=10&v=W6d3twpHwis&feature=emb_logo|

Peace!!!

Mike 03

(16,616 posts)
31. The way I look at it, wearing an N95 mask plus observing social distancing and hand washing
Thu Apr 2, 2020, 04:36 PM
Apr 2020

is an act of kindness to the first responders, because that is one less person who will need an ambulance ride, intubation and a ventilator. It's doing your part not to be part of the problem.

Also, I didn't "take" my masks from anybody. They've been in my emergency kit for years because I live in an area that is prone to wildfires. Paid one dollar per mask.

Mike 03

(16,616 posts)
32. By the way, for the first week or so I was one of those well meaning and earnest
Thu Apr 2, 2020, 04:43 PM
Apr 2020

people repeating those nonsensical tropes about masks until I sat down and thought about it carefully for about fifteen seconds and realized it was a load of crap. Of course masks help you whether you're infected or trying not to get infected. It's worked in other countries, why wouldn't it work in the United States?

So I love your post. Thank you.

wendyb-NC

(3,233 posts)
33. I made a mask using cotton T-shirt remnants and cotton cloth.
Thu Apr 2, 2020, 04:46 PM
Apr 2020

It looks home made, but I don't care. I don't do much sewing, but I managed to put it together, and it survived the washer.

At any rate, I just don't want to get Coronavirus. This extra measure can't hurt, and could help.

ffr

(22,636 posts)
37. America isn't the same great country that once took care of itself and the world.
Thu Apr 2, 2020, 11:21 PM
Apr 2020

Now it cannot even take care of itself.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
39. You're behind the times. As for why there aren't "enough" masks,
Fri Apr 3, 2020, 08:20 AM
Apr 2020

the reason is that national and state governments are supposed to IDENTIFY AND CONTAIN EPIDEMIC DISEASE WHERE IT FIRST SHOWS UP. As we did SARS and MERS during the Obama administration.

And we had far more than enough masks for that.


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