On CNN just now.

[sheshe2]

Harvard doctor developing a point system to say which patient will receive life saving care.

That is exactly what Italy had to do. Treat those that may survive and leave the others to die. I have no words how heavily that will weigh on these caregivers.

Fact is they can't save them all and this Government is doing nothing to help them.

[Sherman A1]

1. Damn Sad

just Damn Sad.

[kairos12]

2. The Republicans have

achieved their Trump Death Panels. For real.

[wnylib]

28. Genocide Don, being true to his Nazi principles.

[DENVERPOPS]

58. He is always claiming he is number one on everything imaginable

Now, he is trying to out do Hitler to claim he pulled off the greatest genocide ever.......

[lefthandedskyhook]

95. Truly said

Hi - I am also a western NY liberal

[The_REAL_Ecumenist]

64. Oh but WAIT A MINUTE? I thought that they're the pro-life party, caring about the sanctity of HUMAN

life, the party that were the ones who were for the abolition of Slavery, that black folks were care SO MUCH more by them, Abraham Lincoln, ad nauseam...Amirite, Fellas?

Wait, it appears that EVERYONE who were yelling at people like me that they believed their fucking lunatic when he said that a VIRAL DISEASE was a HOAX, Democrat plan to make chump look bad, (REALLY? lol!) on twitter, FB, etc have gone quiet & I think it's funny as hell. Now that they're looking a horrific death IN THE FACE caused by the DEMOCRATIC HOAX, shit's gotten REALLY real.

[ProfessorGAC]

101. Not Once They're Born

They only care about life for 8 or 9 months.
After that, you're on your own, slacker!

[Lars39]

3. I think of the doctors at that hospital during Katrina

They had to do extreme triage like that.

[bronxiteforever]

5. +1 I did too.

[renate]

63. that must have been horrendous

I'm so sorry. I hope you also feel very proud of the work you did--including making the difficult decisions that you had no choice but to make. That's a burden nobody would want to bear, but you stepped up and bore it.

[DENVERPOPS]

92. That is all I could think about

when I heard that come out in the news. That wasn't triage, they were elevated to Sainthood for what they knew they had to do. My heart went out to all those caregivers in that hospital and I truly began to despise W's administration at that point....
But W's cold black heart, (actually, Cheney/Rumsfeld, because in reality they were running that whole administration) is nothing compared to Trump AND THE ENTIRE REPUBLICAN PARTY at this point in time. Hands down, no comparison........

[niyad]

4. I wish I believed in Hell, because tha t is where Donnie death and his murdering band belong.

[Elwood P Dowd]

8. And still, 86% of his party still loves him like a God. (nt)

[gibraltar72]

16. 86% of 37% is what?

[Caliman73]

20. Still WAY too much.

If half of the people in the US 330 million people, are eligible to vote that is 165 million. 37% of 165 million is about 61 million people. 86% of that is 52 million people. Way too many complete idiots.

[getagrip_already]

27. it's not 37%, registered republicans account for only

about 25% of registered voters. Dems are about 28%. Indies and other parties are the rest.

It's still too many people, but a small percentage overall.

[BComplex]

71. Where can we find a link to those numbers? I'd love to make myself

feel better about this world by seeing the numbers go down.

Also fox news viewers. They're prolly the same 25%?

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

50. I also don't believe in Hell, but I lived in Bakersfield for a year.

That's all I'm going say.

[sheshe2]

72. yes.

[SoonerPride]

6. Well that banshee Palin said we'd have death panels

so of course Republican incompetence and malfeasance made it happen.

This is so very upsetting.

[empedocles]

7. banshee palin - how apt

[Chainfire]

36. What ever happened

To that sleazy whore? I haven't heard a "youbetcha" in years.....

[hedda_foil]

38. She dressed up as a candy colored bear in The Masked Singer recently. Proof below!

[klook]

9. Horrifying. And tragic. And enraging. (nt)

[UncleTomsEvilBrother]

10. Right now...

...America is a third world country dressed in drag.

[The_jackalope]

11. I've been watching this come down the pike.

The numbers have gotten seriously ugly. In my opinion the overwhelming of the hospital system has been baked in the cake since the beginning. With proper management and perfect execution from the very beginning, we could have delayed the spread enough to have landed in Italy's situation. Not China's because the political landscape is so different.

Realistically, the private health care system in the USA has teamed up with Trumpian incompetence and self-serving malfeasance to make universal DNRs and the triage of ventilators inevitable.

Death panels have come home to roost, for real this time - and under a Republican president!

[Timewas]

12. As usual

We are on our own

[thucythucy]

13. As someone in the disability community

I find this absolutely chilling.

It's already an issue with some doctors wanting to deny care to people with certain disabilities, even without a pandemic. Someone very close to me was almost denied chemotherapy for cancer because she had MS and used a wheelchair. (The doctor eventually relented).

This pandemic is going to rip this nation apart. We are in for so much grief. All thanks to Trump and his corrupt-to-the-chore enablers.

[CountAllVotes]

21. They want ONE thing from persons w/MS

They want you to take their black box drugs.

These drugs CAN AND WILL KILL YOU. They know this.

But they push them anyway at astronomical costs.

They suppress/alter the immune system!

That is why I would never take them.

Lack of efficacy, studies, blah blah blah.

I figured this out real fast not long after DX'd in 1995. No one cared then and they sure as hell do not care now.

Fuck the lot of you that feel this way about disabled people!

[DENVERPOPS]

93. Couldn't agree more with you

When I was a child, I watched the progression of that disease in my mother, until she passed.

You saw Trump's impersonation, at one of his rallies, of a disabled person in the audience at a prior rally.......

It made my blood boil. I have spent every moment since, obliterating all Republican friends from my life, including some life long ones.

[CountAllVotes]

100. I have ONE friend left at this point

Last edited Sat Apr 4, 2020, 03:34 PM - Edit history (2)

It is a man and he is two days older than me. He is from Louisiana and also disabled.

We were talking the other day and I was telling him what this disabled woman named Amanda Siebe that is running for a seat in the House of Representatives in Oregon posted not long after everything was shut down there.

She posted, "Welcome to my world".

That summed it up nicely and I have few words for my family that is left that I never hear from, and that is, "To hell with all of you".

People seem to think that if you have MS you get lots of help. I have never received any help! Never!

I almost ended up on the street not long after my DX as I had gone blind and could no longer work. I called the MS Society to ask them if they had any money that they could send me as I had no way to pay the rent which was $400 at the time. They had nothing to give or help a person in my situation. Nope.

I was promised an appt. with a neurologist at a teaching University that is affiliated with them as well. I had that set-up and bought a r/t airline ticket to fly there and back and they canceled out on me. That's right canceled! That cost me $700!

I tried to get them to send me my money back as what they did was deemed unethical by DREDF (Disability Rights Education & Defense Fund in Berkeley, Calif.). I had no option but to sue them to get my money back and when they found out about that, their reply was clear, "Get off our backs and just go away!". I had no choice but to walk away empty handed as who would take such a paltry case? No one, that is who.

This past year, the final straw broke for me. They canceled the annual "MS Walk" because they were not raising enough money where I am located. How is that for a giant f/u?

I have had nothing to do with the MS Society since. Who in their right mind would?

There is an organization back east called the MSAA (1-800-LEARN-MS - The Multiple Sclerosis Association of America) and they will try to help to a point and they have sent me equipment in the past. They aren't out there trying to hustle the last buck you might have out of you, so a for them.

Shame of these "organizations" that act like they "help". Most of them want one thing and that is to get you use one of these black box drugs that can and do kill! They try to convince people like me that I need these drugs they push by inviting you to fancy dinners at restaurants that you could never afford to go to otherwise. These "dinners" are funded by the drug companies and a doctor is there that they have paid off to push their drugs. These drugs cost as much as $150,000+ a year or more.

I've seen people attend such events and eat every scrap of food put out and stuff leftovers in their pockets and bags as they leave, as many of us are in the same sad boat, sick and nearly broke. We cannot afford to have a dozen eggs delivered to where we live for $10 a dozen by Safeway so there will be no more eggs around here!

I cannot go out any more. Recent food orders via Instacart were never filled, just canceled without notification. I called a phone number being given out for help for the elderly and the disabled that was being given out. I called that phone number and they routed me to another place that gave me yet another phone number to call and that number was disconnected! I've called other places as well and there is either no one there or if there is an answer, they tell you to call another place. Its like riding on broke down merry-go-round!

Since this time, realizing that the risk is simply too great for me should I go out and shop, as if I get sick so will my 84 year old husband that is almost blind and nearly deaf. Will he die being he is in the highest risk group? I couldn't live with myself if this were to happen. If it was just solitary me, I would take that risk and go out and shop because I REALLY DO NOT CARE DO U? as what's her face had printed on her coat!

So, yesterday I ordered $165 worth of nuts, dried fruit, energy bars and other packaged food items from a natural foods store I know of that delivers for free. This supply will have to last me for a few months and will not arrive for a couple of weeks. I do not know how long we will be able to hang-on like this, but we will try our best and I am well-stocked on cat food for my three cats luckily as yes, I SAW THIS WHOLE THING COMING in January 2020! You can trace this back my viewing my posts here on the DU as proof.

Finally, I am sorry to know your mother suffered so much. My mother had multiple sclerosis as well but she managed hide it from the world and died dubbed a drug-seeking hypochondriac! I cannot tell you what a *shock* that was to me to find out after her death.

Take care and I thank you. I am glad someone out there knows this sickening reality! Maybe some one out there that doesn't have a clue as to what disabled people go through will read this and learn a thing or two, that is my hope.

As to those that listen to the gospel according to dump, their day is coming if it has not arrived quite yet! Welcome to My World indeed!

[sheshe2]

42. Thucy...

[CountAllVotes]

14. Might as well say goodbye to me

They sure as hell will not care for me.

They barely do now.

Oh well, it was a life lived for a bit ...

That's all I can really say.

[bdamomma]

40. never give up

[sheshe2]

44. Love ya.

Hang in there, CAV.

[mahina]

106. You wrote earlier about being unable to get groceries.

Did that get sorted out? Where are you located if you don’t mind my asking?

I sure hope things are going better. Aloha.

[CountAllVotes]

109. No groceries

I ordered $165.00 worth of nuts, dried fruit, energy bars and whatever else there was to eat from a health food store back east yesterday.

I'm way up north here in no. California in a rural part of Humboldt.

I called the hot-line for elderly/disabled being given out by Gov. Newsom and that was a joke!

Myriad of calls with nothing to offer but another number to call.

The dried food I ordered will arrive in abt. 2 weeks if lucky.

In the meantime, I do not know what else I can do!

Sickening situation at best!

Thanks for asking!

[Midnight Writer]

15. Just had the hate radio on in my car. "The ones most likely to die are the least productive people."

Because of this, the economy should recover very quickly, by the end of April this will all be over, blah, blah, blah.

For people who don't believe in evolution, they sure embrace survival of the fittest.

[Efilroft Sul]

17. Who said that bullshit? Was it Sebastian "Evil Stewie Griffin" Gorka?

[Midnight Writer]

18. Dr. Oz.

[Efilroft Sul]

23. I'm appalled he said that.

And he should know better that this virus is an equal-opportunity, all-ages killer. That damn fool.

[Hanzzy72]

68. That dude was always a grifter.

But wow...to say something like that is absolutely unforgivable.

[wnylib]

32. Nazi talking points.

[agingdem]

69. true

and does the next Dr. Mengele start "experimenting" on those that are deemed not worthy to save?

[wnylib]

89. How many times have people wondered

why people did not take a strong stand against the killing of the sick, elderly, and minorities? Why didn't the people band together to rebel? To overthrow the murderers?

If we do nothing, we are no better. Even in this time of social distancing, protests are possible, inside cars, with signs and posters.

Like the protests in Puerto Rico, we need to demand the resignation of Genocide Don and his cabal.

[sheshe2]

75. Welp.

"The ones most likely to die are the least productive people."

Well hate radio is describing themselves to a tee. Kudos to them, they have finally recognized their malignancy on society.

Thanks.

[plimsoll]

22. Not even a death panel.

Death procedure.

[empedocles]

29. Yep

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

24. It's going to happen in a lot of other countries.

Even in non Covid-19 times, we spend far too much time, money, and medical resources treating people who are not going to live. Everyone needs to be realistic about what is worth treating and what is not. Doing absolutely everything just so someone can die a few days or weeks later, never having fully recovered consciousness, or possibly in terrible pain the entire time, makes zero sense.

And yes, I myself have DNR orders. I also have an up-to-date will along with medical directives.

[homegirl]

99. Everyon should

have an up to date DNR, or the opposite directive.

When my mother went to the hospital for the last time she pinned her DNR to her gown.

[wnylib]

25. Not only doing nothing to help, but

actively putting up obstacles that make treatment and tracking more difficult. He is deliberately killing people.

[sheshe2]

30. Yes.

He is deliberately killing people.

[wnylib]

34. So, do we as a nation just stand by and watch

it happen? Or do we call him out for it, loudly, relentlessly, everywhere?

If we do not act, we are complicit.

[bdamomma]

41. tRump

and his thuggish regime have such disdain for us. We need to do more than call him out.

He is killing Americans, but why, for his re-election?? is he killing Democrats??? but his followers will get it too.

He does not care about us only about himself. Just think hopeful that he will contract it.

[wnylib]

77. So what would be more

than calling him out?

What I have in mind is to raise the alarm everywhere so often that his deliberate killing of Americans becomes so commonly accepted that he fears the American people.

[bdamomma]

78. yes

we need to put the fear of us in him. He lives in his sick bubble we could pop it.

Oh not to be funny, but we never saw his tax returns either.

[Lonestarblue]

26. As this virus moves into rural areas, Trump supporters will be affected.

Those Republican states that refused to expand Medicaid have a large proportion of Trump supporters, and a number of rural hospital closures. When they get sick, where will they go if there is no hospital nearby? Rural hospital closures have become a serious concern in recent years, and they have been worse in red states. The local doctors who care for infected people in these areas will be under equipped because hospitals have ventilators, not doctors.

[SWBTATTReg]

53. My fear (and it happened before CV) was that when in outstate MO, someone got seriously ...

ill/sick and couldn't be treated at the local small hospital (what few remained), that they would ship them to the big cities (KCMO, STLMO, Rolla MO, and other larger cities in MO). Now, this could seriously negatively impact the abilities of these 'big city' hospitals to treat their local residents who had supported these hospitals in their immediate region for decades and longer.

There is one small local chain of hospitals that served in outstate MO, but they closed like 10+- smaller hospitals over the years, resulting in fewer beds available to rural residents.

I hope when things settle down, that these people, closing these hospitals (in search of even greater profits) pay the price in doing so, business as usual. Localities will need to step up and be more aggressive in whether to allow their limited hospital resources to be so severely limited by those who sole interest, is only more profit. I know that some hospitals may (especially the smaller ones) have to be subsidized, but wouldn't that be a price that those who wish to live in outstate MO (and other states w/ large rural areas too) pay?

[rainin]

31. I'm just going to say it. Republicans die. Democrats, we save.

Elections matter. This is on them. We need to save ourselves.

[flibbitygiblets]

33. What are the point criteria? Paying hush $ to a porn star and partying on the beach during

a pandemic should move people right to the bottom of the list.

Age should not be the only factor. There are plenty of low-quality millennials (anyone filmed wearing tan pants and carrying a tiki torch comes to mind).

What a shit-show that this is even being discussed.

[sheshe2]

37. Please do not mistake these caregivers, Doctors, for the TRUMP Admin.

I have a niece on the front lines that is forced to wear a rain slicker backwards as PPE.

It is called triage, save as many as you can. You can not save them all. Yes age is a factor as well as health.

[crickets]

46. Yes, and it's important to remember the toll these decisions will take on our caregivers. nt

[sheshe2]

76. I can't even imagine.

Fact is the ones that make that decision, heartbreaking for them. It is triage. Save who you can. Then...then you have ones that have to carry it out after working day and night to try to save them...they leave them to die.

Italy did it as well. A patient codes, leave them and move on.

This is heartbreaking and this Admin does not give one dayum about them.

[tarheelsunc]

35. That's fine, as long as we know what the system actually is. eom

[DENVERPOPS]

39. It helps the triage person

to have "something" to aide them in designating who lives/dies. An objective, rational, decision making document.

It would help the decision maker to not agonize and/or internalize any guilt or do any second guessing.....

Believe me, it won't help to completely erase those memories, those actions will be with him/her the rest of their lives.....

I really really really feel for any person tasked with the need to make those decisions........or charged with carrying them out.......

I can't imagine how Trump and the entire Republican cabal can sleep at night.

THEY ALL HAVE BLOOD ON THIER HANDS AND THEIR SOULS......

[Thekaspervote]

47. Yes, absolutely!

[Maribelle]

74. No hope for survival is the triage designation ...

not who lives/dies

[DENVERPOPS]

90. Triage officer in a Mass Casualty Incident

Last edited Sat Apr 4, 2020, 02:22 AM - Edit history (1)

ties a black tag on the ones that are dead or ones not to get any attention because the resources available are far less than the overwhelming number of victims........and the resources are best used on the other massive casualties......

Interesting that civilian triage, and military triage, classify the sick/wounded very differently.....

In this case if a respirator is the deciding factor in survival, and you only have one respirator, then the decision is not based on "no hope for survival".

[Baked Potato]

43. I wonder if money gets you more "Life" points?

[sheshe2]

45. Trump would say yes.

The dedicated nurses and doctors would say no.

[Baked Potato]

52. I hope not, this whole thing is so bad.

[cayugafalls]

56. Money skips you to the head of the line.

I saw it many times at MD Andersen when my mom had cancer. The Saudi Prince who built them a research lab had a crew of Doctors each month that flew to Saudi Arabia for his treatment. Several local rich people had special privileges and sometimes they would shut down entire sections when they were being brought in to get treatment.

Money rules.

[sheshe2]

80. Well this crisis is different.

See NY.

Thousands packed into a hospital. Beds in the hallways. Patients treated in wheel chairs in the ER. No beds. No ventilators. No PPE for the staff. The staff is literally walking in naked and treating those with a highly contagious disease.


6K have died in NY alone. 85 refrigerator trucks have been sent to NY to house the dead. I haven't read one thing about a rich person getting special treatment. This comes down to triage and I trust the doctors and nurses.


I agree with you on one thing. Money does rule and trump will pocket all he can.

[iluvtennis]

48. Exactly, Italy had to determine who was more viable to live and treat them and push the

others in the hallway to die. And now the "richest" country in the world faces the same situation. We were warned.

[Ford_Prefect]

49. This is going to erase whole sections of population in the way wars erased generations,

towns and communities.

So far as we know, right now there will not be a concentration of that loss except as more of us over 50 might be affected. I am talking about massive extinction on a global scale. It will be wide-spread and this is only the first phase.

So far as we know, this is not like the flu in that survivors can get it more than once. Survival can depend on access to very expensive intensive care and on the time from detection to remediation, no to mention availability of correctly equipped medical service.

So far as we know, this is expected to hurt those less able to pay, those less informed, those whose health is already compromised more frequently and more severely.

Charles Dickens would recognize the post-pandemic world as well as those who engineered it.

[jimlup]

51. We are at the same state as Italy NOW and we are moving beyond quickly...

As a nation our response is grossly inadequate. I can't imagine why?

[SammyWinstonJack]

54. Great legacy, tRump. MADA. MAKE AMERICANS DEAD AGAIN.

[Newest Reality]

55. Keep in mind that...

It is also the Neo-liberal policies and economics that have contributed to this debacle. The Republicans and Oligarchs have been pushing that hard for decades.

It is simple: If it is not profitable to be prepared for a future emergency, regardless of what kind it is, then there won't be preparations made.

The same applies to our food distribution system, (JIT) and other critical infrastructure. There is no fat stored, just profits gained.

[ffr]

57. The 44% of Cult45 still supporting dotard will be in this pool of point system patients too.

If tRump inadvertently kills his own supporters, will he finally lose some of his support or will it be filled in by other Cultists?

Something to ponder, I suppose.

[Hassler]

59. "Death Panel Donnie" will last as well as Typhoid Mary.

[Sucha NastyWoman]

60. Helplessness

Is the worst part of this whole thing.

[delisen]

61. If the Harvard doctor is not also denouncing the Trump administration s/he is being unethical.

Withholding life saving equipment is unethical if not criminal.

Where are the presidents of these untaxed universities, the deans of the medical schools and schools of finance, law schools? Are they just ignoring the big picture, keeping low profiles, and drawing up contingency plans for their own survival and benefit?

Why does their silence remind me of Adolf Eichmann.

The Harvard doctor may be a fine person-I do not know his particular story-but it made me realize that there are too many voices in high places that we are not hearing from.

[Meowmee]

82. This

I just saw a report that at Bellview in NYC they are doing everything possible to help everyone to not get to the point where they are overwhelmed and succeeding so far.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/race-finish-line-inside-bellevue-hospital-s-whirlwind-coronavirus-preparation-n1174591

[C Moon]

62. I have no doubt Trump and his filth figure the dying are mostly likely Democrats.

[sheshe2]

65. He would be wrong.

His peeps, the uneducated that believed him when he called it a hoax and then doubled down will be dying in record numbers. Pretty sure he will find a way to blame Obama.

[AllaN01Bear]

66. remember all the death panels that the rs screamed that what obama and obama care would create ?

here they are . not obama , but trump death panels .

[William769]

67. It's terrible that this has to happen.

[warmfeet]

70. Best health care system in the world.

How much bullshit do we have to swallow? I have never seen a failure like this.

[sheshe2]

81. Word.

Jared Fucking Kushner.

[phlaz]

73. republican bastards

They finally got their "Death Panels".

[Tink41]

79. Testing

I've felt this way for quite awhile, it's the reason they are not testing. I've read the accounts of people who have recently lost loved ones to this. The medical community will wait until you are barely breathing, admit you and either treat you or not depending on their assessment. Read the stories it's obvious that's the plan.

[Laelth]

83. Indeed. I would not want to have to make decisions like that.

But I fully understand that someone has to do so.

They have my respect and sympathy.

-Laelth

[Buckeye_Democrat]

84. It happened in Italy and elsewhere.

I’ve been expecting it here, and it will probably be worse given this country’s deniers of reality.

[Jamastiene]

85. I always feel guilty when a person with family and friends dies.

I have none of either and am alone. I wish there was a system for those of us who are extras to tell medical personnel (in case we cannot) to go help those who are loved and have family and friends who care about them and we are not worth trying to save.

If I do get this, I have already decided not to go to the hospital or leave home. The fire ants will pick me clean before the taxes on my property are due and they they will only have a skeleton to deal with. Hopefully, that will give important, worthwhile people a chance.

I despise being an extra, taking up space on this planet, but I despise even more than that that I don't even want to live and others who are worthwhile and loved, die. There is no justice. It makes me nauseated and even more depressed as time goes by in all of this.

[sheshe2]

87. ...

[Buckeye_Democrat]

88. Are you kidding?

You’re a climate change HERO, if nothing else!

Having no children is the most significant impact on carbon emissions.

So that’s one way of looking at it.

[Runningdawg]

86. I'm high risk, it seems only a matter of time and I won't be going to the hospital

I have a living will that says I will NOT be hooked up to a vent. I die at home, one way or another.

[yuiyoshida]

91. AND YET... This government will do nothing....

And Republicans are enjoying this destruction of the country, because all along, that was their plan. Make PUTIN GREAT AGAIN. #Assholes.

[OhioChick]

94. Republicans are the Party of Death n/t

[MadMike47]

96. Trump Virus death panels.

[lark]

97. Government is hindering care for their personal profit and to destroy us.

They are bombing the system, destroying the ability of our healthcare system to actually provide care, pitting the states against each other so their handpicked companies can suck out the most profits and so that the goods don't go to Democratic strongholds and get wasted and people in blue states die. They are ok with people in red states dying too, think they will be more quiet about it so don't care about them either. They only care for profits for the rich and want to kill off the rest of us or make it so we have to work for pennies without healthcare and die young.

[study war no more]

98. don't be surprised

if caregiver suicides increase over the next month.

[Ilsa]

102. Point system? I think Narcissism and Sociopathy

should be a big part of that point system. Keeping the Orange Narcissist off a ventilator should be a high priority.

[TruckFump]

103. Trump has the blood of those chosen to die on his hands.

Murdering piece of shit!!!!

[Ad Infinitum]

104. UNBELIEVABLY EVIL

It's a feature.
Not a failure.



Deliberate Targeted Pogrom

[usaf-vet]

105. Trauma and emergency medicine providers, military and civilian have always used point systems. See..

... the Rule of Nines.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK513287/

Tough job tough decisions.

[Odawg]

107. Where are the all lives matter folks now?

Crickets......

[CountAllVotes]

110. Welcome to the Democratic Underground Odawg!!!

and Welcome!!!

I suppose these right-to-lifers are praying over their hoard of hydroxychloroquine

[Wounded Bear]

108. When the system hits overload, doctors have to use triage...nt