Why there are conspiracy theories at all

in particular. There's a lot more to know, and people realize that.

Also, past conspiracies have indeed been revealed (the Zimmerman letter in WWII, the Gulf of Tonkin incident in Vietnam, Reagan's involvement in the hostage crisis), making most Americans quite aware that they have already been lied to, so what's to prevent the govt/corporations from lying to them again?

It's NOT crazy to suspect that many actions/wars/incidents are manipulated or manufactured for the monetary or political gain of this or that powerful group. Or a coalition of groups.

Edited: can't spell this morning, for some reason

to justify a continued, disastrous "War on Terror".

As the years tick away, the chances of EVER knowing the Truth fades away.

And our government does not 'constantly lie'. That's blatant hyperbole.

Our government DOES lie but over-the-top generalizations don't do the article justice.

Liars and secret-keepers are to people who are driven nuts by the resulting lack of accurate information.

...thanks! Very well thought out and well stated.

K&R

It's so vast and so pervasive that its vast army of toadies and dupes have no idea that they are part of it.

The government keeps tons of records.

And if Bush and Cheney really planned for 911, they'd hardly have made records of it.

It's also possible that Al Qaeda really planned this and Bush just used it as his new Pearl Harbor. We know the PNAC wanted that which makes them evil, but it doesn't mean they planned it necessarily.

Even where there are not any. It comes back to the old question "How do prove a negative?" How do you prove to the paranoid that "President Obama is not an XYZ?"

Richard Hofstadter said it best in his essay The Paranoid Style in American Politics

--in their information environments. Psychologists who used the Rorschach inkblot test called that having a high W score. That is, high W refers to those subjects who got really upset if they couldn't fit every single aspect of the inkblot into the picture they imagined.

Religions evolved long ago when people did not understand much about how and why things happened in the natural world. Science simply had not developed explanations of many things from the weather to sickness to crop failures to volcanoes. Believing that an Almighty (or a group of Almighties) was responsible for events was more comforting than thinking that life was just a series of random events that could never be understood or predicted.

Some conspiracy theories end up being based in fact just like some religious beliefs end up being based on (or perhaps just coincidentally agreeing with) actual science. Most religious beliefs, however, have not turned out to be based on facts but precisely on belief. Most (though certainly not all) conspiracy theories have historically suffered the same fate.

Using your argument: For the same reason there are religions. Humans want to be told stories about things in the absence of knowledge. Instead of providing the knowledge, the government issues a reassuring statement.

Humans want to understand why things happen. If that knowledge does not exist (as in ancient times) they are susceptible to stories being made up to explain things. It does not mean they prefer stories to knowledge.

Even in modern times, many people will disregard "knowledge" (evolution, geological history, etc.) that conflicts with their religion. Anything that one believes in fervently (religion being the best example, but conspiracy theories might register, too) makes one resistant to any new "knowledge" that conflicts with their belief.

And what were the first priesthoods, if not also archaic governments?

Here, let me fix this for you:

"Even in modern times, many people will disregard "knowledge" (evolution, geological history, etc.) that conflicts with their religion. Anything that one believes in fervently (religion being the best example, but the mythic pronouncements of governments and other authorities in one's culture and society might register, too) makes one resistant to any new "knowledge" that conflicts with their belief."

Tell me that blind belief in what a flag-waving political leadership says in a time of "war" (a war that is perpetual and somehow both everywhere and nowhere) is not more common in the US than the "conspiracy theorists" who (in your own comforting belief) comprise a very special, exceptional form of faith-motivated actors (to whom you can feel a false sense of superiority).

.

here I am talking about such things as: controlled demolition, no-planes/holographs, thermite, mini-nukes.

To believe many of them is to ignore universal and accepted engineering and scientific principles Or they require one to ignore hundreds of eyewitness accounts. Or they exhibit a gross ignorance of how the government and military actually work.

This is knowledge that the government does not have a monopoly on.

Go look at the DU2 9/11 forum - it is all there.

and your other favorite tropes for avoiding the issues that the OP talks about. Where would you be if you had to actually deal with the lies and contradictions of the Commission and the government, instead of picking out "CTs" to mock?

look at every thread yesterday - each one devolved into CD.

although maybe my thoughts would sort of fit in that area. I tend to think it wasn't something that was definitely known and ignored (or should have been known) - but that it is sort of a natural result of Imperialism. If you look at how this country and the corporations it protects (our "political and economic interests" to use CNN's term) operate in the world than it is not a jump to realize other countries may not take kindly to our actions. They might well retaliate in some form. When these actions of retaliation occur of course our military is going to come down hard - that is why we have a huge military - so we can squash dissent.

I don't think we were told the whole story on 9/11, just as I don't think we are normally told the whole story about how our country operates in areas where we have "interests" (ie someone has resources we want).

I think that they knew something was going to happen, but didn't have knowledge of operational details, nor did they try very hard to get that information. You could say the same about Pearl Harbor. Certainly our defense establishment knew that Japan was going to do something or another about being cut of from most of its oil supply.



BTW, Posner made his bones as an author debunking Kennedy assassination theories.

I'm sick to death of "conspiracy theorist" being used in a pejorative sense, especially considering that myriad conspiracies take place every god-damned day. Of course, once conspiracy theories are exposed, they're either quickly forgotten or it's assumed the information was available from day one. Even more sickening, in a country where something like 70+% of the population doesn't believe that Oswald killed Kennedy or that he killed him alone, typically "grassy knoll" is appended to the insult of "conspiracy theorist". People who denigrate conspiracy theorists are trying to shut down debate and nothing more. Frankly, it's despicable.

The best OP that I have read in a while here.

generating alternative theories.

and lots of times, they're right -- or at least closer to the truth than the party line.

Mocking people and labeling them 'conspiracy theorists' is BULLYING. It's a nasty weapon of power.

grant me the ability to change things I can
grant me the ability to accept things I cannot change
and grant me the ability to know the difference

for a few years on a different now defunct board, I was enraptured by a few people and caught up in ct's

ct's get to be like a cult
you soon see what you want to see, and it's all so clear while under the spell

only near the end of that board, when several posters got desperate did I learn that those people were never on my side to start off with, and never on the side of moving forward

It took a black president to be elected to learn that I was being led by those who on actually seemed to be on the side of those who believed the whole birther industry and were backing it seemed the draconian laws in Arizona.

but it dawned on me that for all their talk about gov't this or that, why, it was quite likely those true believers might themselves have been gov't operatives and well, without getting an innervention, I got out of the ct business.

It's not like we can do anything about any of this.

Go back to the JFK thingydingy and there is now one and only person left who was on the commission and the namer of the single bullet theory himself.
Will he leave papers to be released sometime after he passes on however long in the future that is?
Could set things straight.


But I also learned the laws of unintended consequences and that those who might be in on a fix, learned those lessons too.
Therefore, those back in JFK's time who MIGHT have done it, did not realize what the great LBJ would bring in-
and that to them was worse than anything JFK might have done (which means LBJ signed the voting rights/civil rights acts), and used ALL his capital he had to get it through and only had that chance due to those that might have been involved in the JFK thingy.

Watergate
The day they revealed that old senile guy was deep throat made me puke.
And then I started thinking deeply about this conspiracy that was indeed a conspiracy
but took it one step forward (or more)

and it dawned on me, why was EVERYTHING Woodward and Bernstein, except for ONE and only one thing. Which was deep throat. Why wasn't CB involved with Deep Throat?
While the other is now a corporate hack who for some reasons still writes on book after another and has #1 book after #1 book. (just wondering, now ct there).

What if the breadcrumbs Deep Throat laid down perfectly, ended up leading to the downfall and ouster of Richard Nixon.
What if the goal of those that were involved, was to bring Nixon down in the first place?
It worked.
Nixon was a delusional ill person who happened to be the last actual somewhat liberal regular republican (which I know most people won't even consider that).

What if the people that followed knew they had to get rid of Nixon to attain power, even knowing that an unknown democrat would take office but they had plans to make sure he only had one term

What if like Cheney was to W, 41 was to Reagan, the real power behind the puppet?

It all happeend because of Nixon being taken out, by something so minute, it hardly mattered in the scheme of things, as Nixon was a shoo-in for reelection anyhow.

(anyone with half a brain, no matter how much love for McGovern there was, knew McGovern did not stand a chance,especially after Eagleton.

Conspiracy theorists have a million and one reasons Bush43 was seated.
A winner(or selected one) does things a loser doesn't do.
One side can't be a gentleman while the other is a thug.
But then those that believed in Ralph Nader, perhaps the biggest conspiracy of all was Ralph Nader, solely led to 43 being seated because without Nader, Florida would not have mattered, and that Nader ego led to Kerry losing, because without Nader, Gore would have been president in 2004 and Kerry would not have won.
And the evil Ron Paul's and 3rd parties who used that Dems/REpubs the same bullshit line
when in fact, that is an utter lie to keep the powers that be in office.

However, law of unintended consequences led directly to President Obama being elected to get the big stink out, and will be relected in 2012, and all of us willing, Hillary will defeat Jeb Bush, and the mighty empire of the Bush family will be done with politically. 3 strikes and they will be out.

So again, instead of getting sidetracked in what happened, think of the better, moving forward and making sure while we might not immediate gain revenge for something awful,
we know in our hearts that having moved forward, we got better than we would have, had say President Obama expended all his efforts to prosecuting (THOUGH HE HAS NO POWER WHATSOEVER TO DO SO ANYHOW) a prior administration.

again
know what you can change and attain those changes
know what you can't change and don't waste the energy, time and capital in something that cannot be done
and accept the difference, and MOVE-ON but move-on by going FORWARD.

Remember folks, we are only here for so many years of life, and we gotta pass something better to future generations. The single thing we can do to insure that is not to delve in some this happened/ that happened(and get bogged down in minutia that some plant will obscure), but by insuring we never elect those people, or vote out of office, or vote so many others in that those turncoats have zero power.

My mind woke up after all the conspiracy thoughts about Bush43 remaining in office, when on inauguration day 2009, that helicopter transported Bush out of the White House office he was selected for, and back out.

Biggest thing to accept is, President Obama took office, will win his 2nd term, Democrats will follow, the Supreme Court will return to the better days back before that bloomin' idiot replaced the legendary Thurgood Marshall, the demographic change will get rid of that one pesky angry white male demographic, texas will become Blue again, and we shall have the biggest boon since the post war age now 60-70 years ago already.

Just my opinion, know it's not a popular one (and I know wedge issues stop people right off from considering LBJ as a great person), and you all have the right to your opinions

and the people that were not who I thought they were (liberal democrats), I have to thank for removing the blinders from my eyes.All those people were were Ron Paul and Republican fans, and Clinton haters tearing Bill and Hill down. Took me a few years til I realized that.

Law of unintended consequences again applies- Bill Clinton is now more popular than he was at any time when President. And Hillary is more popular by far than any other too, male or female. Glad she and he are on our side.(and TEAM players).
F--k the ones who led me to think otherwise earlier on.
My satisfaction is knowing Obama was #44, and saying ha ha ha when Hillary enters in 2017 as #45. That to me is better than wasting time about 9-11 and never prooving it, because all it takes in any c.t. conversation is one minutia fact to be wrong, and the entire thread gets stopped by people saying, oh well, guess it wasn't true.

and rest in peace, Mr.Jim, a poster from another board who was very scientific in his thoughts, along with common sense, and smart enough, mostly kept it about JFK. Been a couple of years now since he passed away, way too young. Still thinking of you Mr. Jim, and still thinking of your great sense of humor, always brought a smile to me now matter the groaners!
It's too bad posters like Mr. Jim were anonymous, because I am sure his family and kids he left behind would love to know there are people who cared and still think about him so kindly.
(do family members even know ones boards they write on, and ones words they wrote?)

When I say I don't believe the official story it doesn't mean I go looking for videos of controlled demolitions and so on ... it just means I don't agree that what they've shared is everything that is going on. There may be truth to some of the details, there may not.

Frankly from my perspective capitalism causes enough difficulties on a daily basis that we don't need to look for conspiracy - it is right out there in front of us.

As to what we can do, point out the inequities of capitalism and work towards a fair (or fairer) economic system.

And there are also some truly slimy characters in government with their own selfish agendas. That is no evidence whatsoever for the ridiculous conspiracy theories put forth by those with their own selfish agendas to be gobbled up by the gullible.

However, one important part of scientific training is learning to avoid speculating beyond the data, but this requirement of the scientific process depends critically on the assumption (which is almost always valid) that scientists will present all relevant data and methodology to their research community as accurately and as completely as they can.

Not only do conspiracy theorists go way beyond the data they also contradict obvious fact. Conspiracy theorists cannot separate the possible from the impossible. Conspiracy theorists don't understand basic human psychology.

The reasons the Bush Administration ignored the warnings are opened to speculation. But conspiracy theorists go way beyond that. They create impossible Rube Goldberg scenarios that defy common sense. They interfere with the search for truth.

Absolutely correct.

That this drives some people nuts is a secondary issue.

I know some in the 9/11 truth crowd who think that government disinformation hacks are promoting some of the more outlandish MIHOP theories specifically to discredit some of the more plausible LIHOP theories.

Conspiracies inside conspiracies!
Where does it ever end!!!