Chloroquine

[captain queeg]

I talked to my brother today. He’s a doc. We talked about chloroquine. His wife has been taking it for 30 yrs for lupus so I was kind of expecting him to have negative comments. So far she hasn’t had any trouble getting it. But he thinks the stuff is very promising and told me almost no people, maybe one, that have been taking the stuff has contracted the virus. Or rather gotten sick. I’m sure he hears stuff that the average person doesn’t and of course he’s against people self dosing but sounds like it really is a promising drug and there are lots of tests going on right now.

They actually gave me a bunch of that stuff when I went to Afghanistan. I only took it for a week or so. I know I didn’t throw it out back then but I might have when a moved a few years ago. It would be old but still in sealed bottles but I have no idea if it’s still in storage or where it might be if I still have it.

[TexasTowelie]

1. Unless you know how large a dose you are supposed to take, then I wouldn't risk it.

Deaths have been reported among those who have taken twice the recommended dose.

[Phoenix61]

2. There are only 1.5 million lupus patients in

in the US.

From FactCheck.Org
“While it’s too early to say whether or not hydroxychloroquine has any protective effects, it’s not true that no lupus patients have developed the disease. In fact, the COVID-19 Global Rheumatology Alliance’s registry of COVID-19 patients with rheumatologic disease had 110 validated patients, as of April 2, and 17% of them have lupus.”

[jcgoldie]

3. I'm pretty sure this is the definition of what Fauci calls...

"anecdotal"...

[Igel]

7. It is.

On the other hand, the attitude towards it on the part of some is also loopy. Along the lines of it, "OMFG, if you use it you'll go blind at once and DIE!!!"

It's a risk, but so's driving to the store. Esp. in Houston.

[mwooldri]

4. It's a prescription drug, so if a doctor prescribes it...

... then take it according to the prescription. If no prescription don't take it. Having said that be aware of the side effects and if the side effects are intolerable then stop taking it and tell your prescribing physician.

[Hoyt]

5. Apparently, lots of docs are prescribing it, maybe because it's one of only a few

possible treatments that MIGHT help some people. Definitely have to be careful with dosage and length of treat, and need monitoring by physician.

Anecdotal evidence — for a disease that is new — is about all we are going to get for awhile.

Positive statements on the drug — and other similar treatments— get a lot of criticism here.

[Dem2]

6. My cousin took Hydroxychloroquine while on chemo for breast cancer

Apparently it helps the chemo work better. She ended up with few side effects from the chemo, mentioned to me she had no issue with the Hydroxychloroquine.

[RockRaven]

8. With all due respect to you and your brother, the fact that he is a doctor is almost immaterial

to the question of whether or not he has good advice to offer on this matter -- non-doctors are capable of making coherent and rational analyses of the available data, and doctors are capable of making a hash out of it. Doctors do indeed receive training on critical analysis of medical trials/scientific papers and how to incorporate them into their practice. But it is hard to make a life-long habit of hyper-vigilance and science-based analysis of every relevant paper/study, even in one's own specialty. Hell, it is hard to even TRY to do that. It is impossible to execute it perfectly. I do not say that to bash doctors, only to point out that arguments from authority are very dangerous in discussions of things like coronavirus-chloroquine.

The over-riding questions for any discussion of whether or not a treatment works for a disease come down to:
what question or proposition exactly are you evaluating?
what body of evidence are you using to answer the question?
what does this evidence actually demonstrate?
does this evidence really answer the fucking question being asked?

As far as I've seen to date, the evidence that chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine treat or prevent coronavirus infections (already that is four (2X2=4) different discrete questions; those 2 drugs treating or preventing sequelae of coronavirus infections is then 8 discrete questions...) is a small pile of horse-shit. A small, unremarkable, banal, sad, tired, pile of horse-shit. Utter horse-shit, yes, but not even a big pile. Just a small, pathetic pile.

Will that change? Maybe. I look forward to the day when there is a robustly-proven and highly effective treatment and, separately, a similarly trustworthy preventative. But the evidence is not here yet, imo.

[Drahthaardogs]

9. It makes sense it would work for the cytokine storm

Some people have, but I doubt it affects the virus

[Kathy M]

13. An interesting article from NPR if you have time I suggest the whole article

Will only take few minutes , here are couple excerpts since cytokine storm brought up

"Now doctors and researchers are increasingly convinced that, in some cases at least, the cause is the body's own immune system overreacting to the virus. The problem, known broadly as a "cytokine storm," can happen when the immune system triggers a runaway response that causes more damage to its own cells than to the invader it's trying to fight.

Although there's limited data on how the release of too many of these molecules (the cytokine storm) affects COVID-19 patients, some doctors are already treating people who have the disease with powerful anti-inflammatory drugs to try and slow or stop the process. Anecdotally, they say that the approach appears to be helping.

But other researchers caution that the untested treatments carry significant risks. Suppressing the body's immune system at the exact moment it's trying to fight off the deadly coronavirus could have all sorts of unintended consequences, warns Dr. Tobias Hohl, the chief of infectious disease at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center in New York City. "The infection could get worse," Hohl says.

Nevertheless, Hohl and others believe that controlling cytokine storms will turn out to be a critical way to help at least some of the sickest COVID-19 patients. And clinical trials already underway in New York and elsewhere could soon provide data about how existing drugs should be used."

The whole article https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/04/07/828091467/why-some-covid-19-patients-crash-the-bodys-immune-system-might-be-to-blame

[greytdemocrat]

10. Well

If my wife or I get this virus we are making sure we
will tell our docs we want this drug(s) given. We haven't read
of any side effects other than a possible rash when taken
in the correct dose.

I really don't understand all the negativity on DU
to these drugs especially as more and more examples
of its use are coming out.

[burrowowl]

11. If you are allergic to quinine

And apparently some people in Kenya died from overdosing on it

[grantcart]

12. Well you have come to the right place for medical diagnosis and advice on prescriptions

What have you got to lose?

[StarryNite]

14. It prolongs the QT.

It has the potential to kill people with Long QT Syndrome. I suspect there could be other people with other health issues which would not be candidates for this drug.

[captain queeg]

15. I took it for a week or two. The only symptom I noticed was it upset my stomach a little.

I don’t remember the dosage, it was a prophylactic for malaria. It seemed pretty strange to us to be on malaria medicine in Afghanistan and none of us kept taking it very long. It’s not like I’d try taking it as a preventative, hopefully if research shows it’s useful guidelines will be given. I’d hate to see Trump giving himself credit, which he no doubt will if it pans out. But it’s certainly a promising drug and I hope it ends up being useful. I read anecdotal articles about shortages, don’t know how true it is, but it’s very common and no doubt supply could be easily ramped up.

[LisaL]

16. What kind of doc is your brother? What he is telling you is bogus.

"“One frequently asked question: over 25% of patients who developed a COVID-19 were on HCQ at the time of diagnosis,” the group said in a tweet thread on April 2, referring to hydroxychloroquine."
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/trumps-false-coronavirus-claim-about-lupus-patients/

[Alex4Martinez]

17. Here's the deal: It's not a one-time drug, it's a forever prescription that makes $$$$ to pharma.

Thus Trump's great interest in it.

Our medical industry is not interested in cures or preventatives; they're interested in treatments and profits.

The longer the prescription/treatment, the greater the profit.

Get us a vaccine and support us in avoiding becoming high-risk, that should be the direction we take.